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feeling a bit like Tantulus: out of print/hard to find fiddle recordings
feeling a bit like Tantulus: out of print/hard to find fiddle recordings
hello, I have been listening obsessively to fiddle music for the last couple of months and have heard about lots of great and even quasi-legendary recordings that are now, staggeringly, out-of-print or impossible-to-find. I have tried google searches and online-store trawling and e-bay and have struck out. How can I get a copy of Casey in the Cowhouse? or Taking Flight? Ceol an Clair? Denis Murphy: Music of Sliabh Luachra? Padraig O'Keeffe: Fiddle Master of Sliabh Luachra? John & Julia CLifford? Lucy Farr? CCE's 1974 Johnny Doherty recording? etc. And what is wrong with RTE and Gael-Linn that they don't reissue some of the great recordings sitting in their archives? Don't they think it important that this music be accessible? Is there a way to somehow get a copy of some of these recordings and forward royalties to the rights holders? Are there recordings of Sean Ryan out there that I don't know about? Are there recordings of Martin Byrnes other than Paddy in the Smoke and Masters of Irish Music?
Also, I have heard mention on this site of collectors who have libraries of non-commerical recordings that they trade with each other. I have nothing to trade but I'd love to eventually be in the position to do so--how does one start such a collection? I was happy to find folktrax.org and gain access to some non-commerical recordings of a number of older musicians, but there are fiddlers not represented in that archive that I would love to hear.... Are there other similar treasure-troves out there?
I know a lot of people might say, good God, there are so many recordings readily available if you can't find more recordings of some fiddlers you know you really like or other legendary fiddlers you are just curious about why not just give up? But I have found that some of the amazingly technically accomplished and polished contemporary fiddlers out there just don't "speak to me" all that much. I am still in the process of finding tunes that I really love and want to learn and sometimes a tune is changed forever and becomes deeply loved because one hears a truly great, or several different truly great interpretations of it. I have heard one fiddler play a tune and thought nothing of it other than maybe, "that's a nice tune I suppose"--heard several versions maybe--and then heard another fiddler play it and be completely smitten....
Re: feeling a bit like Tantulus: out of print/hard to find fiddle recordings
Your complaint about how much great music lies languishing in the darkened vaults of various record companies is, I’m afraid, all too valid.
The O’Keeffe RTE disk is a case in point. Speaking personally, it’s difficult to overstate how much the recordings on this CD influenced my playing. Indeed I’d have to say that I place more value on them than on the rather better known recordings of the Sligo masters of the early/mid 20th century. Yet after releasing the disk some years back, RTE seems to have lost interest.
That said, a friend of mine managed to get hold of a copy of the CD from them about a year ago. Admittedly the CD came without sleeve notes and the cover “looked as though someone had danced a polka on it”, but at least he has the disk. His advice then was to call up 00 353 1 2083453 and ask for Claire. I got the impression a certain amount of charm and persistence might be required.
My understanding is that Gael Linn are actually currently engaged in re-releasing some of their back catalogue. An excellent example of this was the double CD released around a year ago called “Seoltaí Séidte - Setting Sail” consisting of recordings made between 1957 and 1961, both of singers and instrumentalists. With reference to fiddlers of the past, it features the likes of Sean Ryan, Denis Murphy and Paddy Canny, amongst others.
There are also other disks available featuring some of these older fiddlers:
“The Rushy Mountain” which features selections from six disks of Sliabh Luachra musicians, originally released by Topic Records. Plenty of Denis Murphy here. A number of these recordings are still available in their own right, either on CD or tape (e.g. Kerry Fiddles, Humours of Lisheen, Star above the Garter).
Re Denis Murphy, Music of Sliabh Luachra: it might be worth trying these folks in Cork:
Info@thelivingtradition.com
“Ceol an Clair”: last I heard this was scheduled for re-release on CD by CCE sometime this year. Anyone know more / better?
If you don’t already have the All Ireland Champions disk from Dublin Records featuring Paddy Canny, PJ Hayes, Peadar O’Loughlin and Bridie Lafferty, then I’d strong recommend getting it. (Shanachie also released a version of this recording).
Have you got the CD “The Milestone at the Garden” (issued by Rounder, from memory)?
Another recommendation: the disk of music by Patrick Kelly of Cree, Co Clare, issued in the last year.
Re: feeling a bit like Tantulus: out of print/hard to find fiddle recordings
Since we are in the age of technology, it would be great to think of some format to save a mega archive. Otherwise, we will be losing real music heritage.
My best luck has been going to the recording company sites, such as Shenachie. I was recently in a situation of trying to replace a CD and finding it for sale at a huge price through Amazon.com. I did an intensive search and found my CD, but also found it at Shenachie for the regular price. Best Wishes.
Re: feeling a bit like Tantulus: out of print/hard to find fiddle recordings
Thanks Pingu. I have the Byrnes already and think he's fantastic. So full of life! I was just wondering if there's more out there--certainly wish there was! Thanks to Reg Hall anyway for what there is, even if his piano isn't always spot on.
I have to say Ceol I deeply envy you for living in the Sierra. I lived in California for a little over a year in the Bay Area and got away every weekend to the Santa Cruz mountains or the Diablo range & sometimes longer trips to the Sierra. The hills and mountains of California are one of the best places I've been. I understand why people who leave CA go into withdrawal.... I think the nature of California is happiness-producing in the same way Irish music is.
Ed, I'm definitely getting the Seolte Seidte though some of the fiddle tracks are the the Milestone which i already have. I'm very curious about the singing, which I am not familiar with yet, though i expect I'll learn a lot about it if I hope to play slow airs some day. The All Ireland Champion disc is as amazing as everybody says & I have to say cheers for Bridie Lafferty because she _added_ to the greatness of the recording in my opinion. Too often pianists are just "there" or even detract. I hope they do release the Ceol an Clair because I understand it contains some of the few published recordings by Junior Crehan. Is Kevin Creehan's disc very good? I don't know the Patrick Kelly but will definitely check out the disc. & I'll try Claire & the lving tradition & see if they can help me out. Even though those discs are out of print I know there must be copies lying around somewhere.
Re: feeling a bit like Tantulus: out of print/hard to find fiddle recordings
2ndFiddle: my two favorite places to practice music near where I live are along a strong river. One is a 400 year old Live Oak Tree. I can really understand the ancient "tree of life" thing. It grew southward to catch the light, and it has a perfect little nook underneath to sit. The other one is along some rapids. There is a boulder with a perfect perch for one person to play in privacy. I was referred to in another thread as a "Woodsey Nutter." Well, it works for me. Best Wishes.
Re: feeling a bit like Tantulus: out of print/hard to find fiddle recordings
You could try Veteran Records (in England). they do have a website and you should be able to get Casey in the Cowhouse, Lucy Farr's 'Heart and Home' there, and probably a few more as well.
I too would recommend 'Milestone at the Garden' and also 'Past Masters of Irish Fiddle' (not sure of the label - maybe Topic)
When you start delving into this stuff you wonder how much else there is that's not currently available!
When people swap trad music recordings, what is the favoured format - does the cassette still rule supreme?
Re: feeling a bit like Tantulus: out of print/hard to find fiddle recordings
Ceol, the oak trees of California are the stars in her crown. Every plant there from the sequoia down to miner's lettuce is wonderful but the oaks are fantastic. Far better to be a woodsey nutter in the mountains than a flatlander in paved places! Believe it or not, I often play in basement!
Thanks Sharon, I checked out Veteran & it is a great site. I learned for instance that Martin Byrnes plays on Her Mantle So Green with Margaret Barry (& of course Michael Gorman). I was planning to get that disc anyway of course because I am a huge Gorman fan, but I was putting it off a little because I am not yet entirely inured (despite repeated exposure) to the good Ms. Barry's almost demonic banjo accompaniments. I have not heard her singing much-storied singing yet though so the CD will be well worth it. I also noticed on the site (which had a different blurb for the video than other sites I have seen) that the video Come West Along the Road has footage of Junior Crehan (!) & Denis Murphy among many other greats). Alas that it does not appear to be available in U.S./Canadian VHS format (or, heaven forfend, DVD)!
Which leads me to the (probably incorrect) surmise that most collectors still exchange cassettes despite the amazing ease of digital transfer. As for the ITMA, Ed, no doubt you are right but what good is an archive in the digital/global age if it isn't accessible? Especially given the Irish Diaspora? Unless you are a Dubliner or an academic on fellowship what good is the existence of that doubtlesslessly-wonderful Library-of-Alexandria? They should digitalize everything and put it online & accessible (for a fair fee), negotiating permissions and arranging for royalties where necessary or possible. Access for academic researchers of Irish Traditional Music? Fine! (I do wish there were more books on the subject.) But what about access for traditional players? There are elements out there who seem to desire playing to be very "traditional", but on the other hand nobody seems to be doing much to make classic (& extremely "authentic") recordings easily available. It's like an archives-holder version of the old-fashioned fiddler mentality where a player (like Neillidh Boyle) might be reluctant to play or record for fear his interpretations or tunes would be imitated or his tricks "ripped off". If you have a light for Christ's sake don't hide it under a bushel basket! If the itma needs somebody to digitalize all that stuff & have nobody else for the job I'll go over & do it myself if it takes ten years! Three cheers anyway for the great collector & trad hero Peter Kennedy who makes his life's work available in digital format!
Um, sorry for that tirade. Sharon, cool that you played with those greats (checked out your id)!
I suspect that the source of your problems with the lack of general availability of material from the Archive is rooted more in lack of resources than intent to withold! It is an Archive after all - not sure they are in the business of Processing and Releasing.
I highly recommend spending a day there if you find yourself in Dublin! Marvelous collections of recordings and printed material. I can't wait to go back...
Re: feeling a bit like Tantulus: out of print/hard to find fiddle recordings
Right you are, Steph. I wasn't wholly in earnest! (I hope) & I'll definitely go next time I make it to Dublin. I'm sure lack of resources is a serious problem. Though I am not sure that the logical next step for archives in the digital age is not to become clearing-houses rather than museums or partial tombs. Back in the Gutenburg days, or with the monks with the quills & parchment & vellum, or even further back with the ol' papyrus, books were difficult to reproduce, so good libraries became meccas. But now books can be scanned and made accessible to millions in a matter of a few hours.... Same goes for music. Once you had to have cannisters or phonograph discs or reel-to-reel tapes, but now we have mp3s. Why not reinvent the archive by literally "thinking outside of the box"? (I reeally hate that idiom, but it seemed appropriate here.) The only problem with the clearing-house concept is permissions and copyright laws, which are becoming increasingly restrictive as the big publishing comapanies lobby for more and more extensions. In America it is possible to tie up rights for as long as 120 years, which seems absurd to me, especially when you consider that rights on _computer software_ last as long as 90 years (?!)
Now I am a big fan of the Byrne convention (and of old Queen Anne before that!) and was ashamed America didn't join the convention sooner--makes our objections to Chinese piracy look a bit hypocritical now. Dickens was deeply upset by American piracy (well before Byrne of Course!), and even Professor Tolkien, in much more recent days, got seriously ripped off by unauthorized paperbacks. So it may be that in the future an archive will have to have a lawyer or two on staff, which can get pretty expensive; but I bet there are plenty of lawyers who would, out of love of art of knowledge, do at least some of the work pro bono.
Re: feeling a bit like Tantulus: out of print/hard to find fiddle recordings
I also love the old stuff, and have heaps of it piled up too. I've something from just about everyone mentioned on this page, for instance! And a lot more - old pipers, fluters. If any of y'all have tapes of the modern fiddlers/fluters I'd be glad to swap a bit. Maybe some of that workshop stuff. Mostly the solo or duos I like.
After you buy the John Vesey, Coleman, Morrison/Killoran, Topic Irish Dance etc., Patrick Kelly, Shanachie Reissues (70s records), Whatever Phillipe at CelticGrooves has, etc. etc. etc., you'll have a tidy heap of the old playing to listen to.
Also, Mr. Fiddle,
"Three cheers anyway for the great collector & trad hero Peter Kennedy who makes his life's work available in digital format!"
Actually some of that is other people's work - Peter's Seamus Ennis "Fairy Piper" CD is an Outlet LP from the late 60s, with three bits Peter recorded in the 50s, which admittedly are utterly fantastic.
Re: feeling a bit like Tantulus: out of print/hard to find fiddle recordings
On the Kevin Crehan CD, I’d say definitely worth getting if you like great honest-to-goodness solo fiddle playing (and I mean *solo*). And, what’s more, chock-full of tunes attributed to Junior Crehan (12 by my quick count). If on the other hand you like your music with assorted djembes, dijeridoos and synth effects, and ‘produced’ to within an inch of its life, then best steer clear of this.
As for the O’Keeffe disk, well where to begin? The recordings were made between September 1948 and January 1949 by Seamus Ennis with the Radio Eireann Mobile Recording Unit, when O’Keeffe would have been around 60 years old. Yet despite his age, the music has a wonderful lightness and fluidity. His playing of the dance music is reasonably quick, but it never sounds rushed. Rather it has great poise and assurance.
And then we come to the slow airs. For me his playing of slow airs is on a different plane to almost any other musician I know of. The sheer emotional power of his playing, shorn of mawkishness or artifice, is breathtaking. If you are looking to play slow airs yourself I would say this is essential listening.
All of the tracks are unaccompanied, except for two where he is joined by Denis Murphy, at one time a pupil of O’Keeffe’s. The sleeve notes which (usually!) come with the CD are excellent, giving a reasonably detailed account of the man’s life as well as plenty of the stories which would inevitably surround such an extraordinary character.
The “Come West Along The Road” video certainly used to be available in American format. I know ‘cos I erroneously bought one at Willie Clancy week! If you have no luck elsewhere, might be worth getting on to NPU (http://www.pipers.ie).
On the ITMA: I recall speaking a few years back to someone who at one time was involved in running the Archive, and raising the issue of access to the material. From what he had to say, it was clear there had been a lot of debate as to how the archive was to be constituted and its contents made available. Ultimately it was felt that the number one priority was preserving as much material as possible; and that therefore they had to be able to reassure musicians and singers that material that the ITMA recorded would not find its way onto the commercial market outside of their control and where they and their dependents would not benefit from it. Yes it’s a shame for those of us who don’t live down the road from Merrion Square, but the rationale does appear sound to me – you don’t want to risk not collecting some of this music because of extended legal haggling.
Re: feeling a bit like Tantulus: out of print/hard to find fiddle recordings
Thanks for the offer Kevin. Only now I don't know how to go about arranging a swap? Are there particular recordings you are interested in? I guess I'll write you an email. & you are right about Folktrax, quite a few other collectors were at least partly responsible for some of the recordings....
Ed, you are certainly right that preservation is the first priority. O well. I guess I am just optimistic that with minimal editing and a modest fee on a per-track, as-completed basis an arrangement could be reached that would benefit rights-holders and possibly even raise a bit of money for the archive to continue its digitalization project. A standard contract could be devised that holders could opt into if they chose, or opt out of if they did not want the arrangement. It could be devised so as to permit the holder to terminate at will on written notice. Anything to increase accessibility! It is even possible that that sort of publication agreement could leventually ead to commerical contracts for a few holders who wanted them. But I suppose general interest might be so small in any case that the incentive just wouldn't be there.... A pity.
Cliodhnal_fiddle, have you heard the more readily available recordings of O'Keeffe? I haven't been able to find very many. There is Kerry Fiddles at least, a few tracks of which also appear to be present on Rushy Mountain. Padraig also plays one track on The Lark In the Morning CD on the Tradition label, which is titled only "Jig," but which appears to be the tune called Denis Murphy's Slide in Matt Cranitch's Fiddle book. Beyond that I haven't been able to find anything. Denis Murphy and Julia Clifford who were brother and sister and pupils of Padraig, play very much in his style. I seem to remember that Paddy Cronin learned from Padraig too, but he went to New York and got completely Colemanized (sounds very nice though!), at least as far as I can tell from the one track by him on The Milestone in the Garden. Interestingly Denis also spent a lot of time in New York but he completely rejected Colemanization.
Re: feeling a bit like Tantulus: out of print/hard to find fiddle recordings
Paddy didn't turn into a Colemanclone exactly, he was a fan and kept much of his original style in the end. The track on TMatG is definitely Kerry tunes not Sligo, although at the session where he recorded those tunes he also did medleys lifted whole hog from Morrison and Killoran. Great player!
Re: feeling a bit like Tantulus: out of print/hard to find fiddle recordings
I've heard only the one side by Cronin and it sounds great to me. And I suppose it was only natural to try to absorb new influences. I'd very much like to hear more of Paddy! Only I don't know to get hold of him.
Re: feeling a bit like Tantulus: out of print/hard to find fiddle recordings
2ndFiddle:
All you have to do is get yourself to Miltown this July - and see the man for yourself! He'd be the fiddler typically camped out in front of Malone's with a big grin plastered on his face, playing for anyone who cares to stop and listen...
I love the older music - there is something elusive there that feels like it will be lost as soon as they stop playing, but continues to haunt long afterwards.
Re: feeling a bit like Tantulus: out of print/hard to find fiddle recordings
Steph, would that be Tom Malone's in Miltown Malbay Co. Clare? I'd love to get over there this July but doesn't look good with my employment situation. Maybe next year. I've been over to Ireland quite a few times to visit my Mom's family in Mayo, but (unfortunately) I was not yet interested in listening to/playing the country dance music. I did go into a few pubs and heard a few sessions, but it was all just "jigs & reels" to me. Now I'm obsessed. Next time I go though I'll bring a fiddle and will be all ears!
Are commercial recordings of Mr. Cronin currently available?
Re: feeling a bit like Tantulus: out of print/hard to find fiddle recordings
Yep that would be the very one! Tom Malone's...I've had many a good tune there. Ahhhh ye must get yourself to Willie Week eventually - a week long tune orgy with fabulous musicians all around to play with.
There's a very endearing quote from Paddy Cronin at the end of the transcription:
"Nothing would make me give up the fiddle. I'll be playing it till I die. I never made a penny on it, but I put it on the dining room table and every time I go by it, I play a tune on it."
Not sure about recordings. I'll keep my eyes peeled.
Re: feeling a bit like Tantulus: out of print/hard to find fiddle recordings
Thanks Steph! My computer turned the Article download into gibberish, but I went to media-generation.com and found a DVD documentary there called New England Fiddles which apparently includes footage of Paddy Cronin, amongst half-a-dozen other fiddlers from various folk traditions.
Re: feeling a bit like Tantulus: out of print/hard to find fiddle recordings
Back to the poor ITMA: I must observe, digitalization is no sweat! I just put the Star of Munster Trio cassette into mp3 format using my (cheap) iRiver mp3 recorder and it sounds great. Now I can slow it down on Windows Media Player to practice at various speeds to build up to tempo & even burn a backup CD. Life is good.
feeling a bit like Tantulus: out of print/hard to find fiddle recordings
feeling a bit like Tantulus: out of print/hard to find fiddle recordings
hello, I have been listening obsessively to fiddle music for the last couple of months and have heard about lots of great and even quasi-legendary recordings that are now, staggeringly, out-of-print or impossible-to-find. I have tried google searches and online-store trawling and e-bay and have struck out. How can I get a copy of Casey in the Cowhouse? or Taking Flight? Ceol an Clair? Denis Murphy: Music of Sliabh Luachra? Padraig O'Keeffe: Fiddle Master of Sliabh Luachra? John & Julia CLifford? Lucy Farr? CCE's 1974 Johnny Doherty recording? etc. And what is wrong with RTE and Gael-Linn that they don't reissue some of the great recordings sitting in their archives? Don't they think it important that this music be accessible? Is there a way to somehow get a copy of some of these recordings and forward royalties to the rights holders? Are there recordings of Sean Ryan out there that I don't know about? Are there recordings of Martin Byrnes other than Paddy in the Smoke and Masters of Irish Music?
Also, I have heard mention on this site of collectors who have libraries of non-commerical recordings that they trade with each other. I have nothing to trade but I'd love to eventually be in the position to do so--how does one start such a collection? I was happy to find folktrax.org and gain access to some non-commerical recordings of a number of older musicians, but there are fiddlers not represented in that archive that I would love to hear.... Are there other similar treasure-troves out there?
I know a lot of people might say, good God, there are so many recordings readily available if you can't find more recordings of some fiddlers you know you really like or other legendary fiddlers you are just curious about why not just give up? But I have found that some of the amazingly technically accomplished and polished contemporary fiddlers out there just don't "speak to me" all that much. I am still in the process of finding tunes that I really love and want to learn and sometimes a tune is changed forever and becomes deeply loved because one hears a truly great, or several different truly great interpretations of it. I have heard one fiddler play a tune and thought nothing of it other than maybe, "that's a nice tune I suppose"--heard several versions maybe--and then heard another fiddler play it and be completely smitten....
# Posted on March 21st 2005 by 2ndFiddle
Re: feeling a bit like Tantulus: out of print/hard to find fiddle recordings
You'll get Martin Byrnes, and other fiddle players, here:
http://celticgrooves.homestead.com/CGCatalogFiddle.html
# Posted on March 21st 2005 by Alf Tupper
Re: feeling a bit like Tantulus: out of print/hard to find fiddle recordings
Your complaint about how much great music lies languishing in the darkened vaults of various record companies is, I’m afraid, all too valid.
The O’Keeffe RTE disk is a case in point. Speaking personally, it’s difficult to overstate how much the recordings on this CD influenced my playing. Indeed I’d have to say that I place more value on them than on the rather better known recordings of the Sligo masters of the early/mid 20th century. Yet after releasing the disk some years back, RTE seems to have lost interest.
That said, a friend of mine managed to get hold of a copy of the CD from them about a year ago. Admittedly the CD came without sleeve notes and the cover “looked as though someone had danced a polka on it”, but at least he has the disk. His advice then was to call up 00 353 1 2083453 and ask for Claire. I got the impression a certain amount of charm and persistence might be required.
My understanding is that Gael Linn are actually currently engaged in re-releasing some of their back catalogue. An excellent example of this was the double CD released around a year ago called “Seoltaí Séidte - Setting Sail” consisting of recordings made between 1957 and 1961, both of singers and instrumentalists. With reference to fiddlers of the past, it features the likes of Sean Ryan, Denis Murphy and Paddy Canny, amongst others.
There are also other disks available featuring some of these older fiddlers:
“The Rushy Mountain” which features selections from six disks of Sliabh Luachra musicians, originally released by Topic Records. Plenty of Denis Murphy here. A number of these recordings are still available in their own right, either on CD or tape (e.g. Kerry Fiddles, Humours of Lisheen, Star above the Garter).
Re Denis Murphy, Music of Sliabh Luachra: it might be worth trying these folks in Cork:
Info@thelivingtradition.com
“Ceol an Clair”: last I heard this was scheduled for re-release on CD by CCE sometime this year. Anyone know more / better?
If you don’t already have the All Ireland Champions disk from Dublin Records featuring Paddy Canny, PJ Hayes, Peadar O’Loughlin and Bridie Lafferty, then I’d strong recommend getting it. (Shanachie also released a version of this recording).
Have you got the CD “The Milestone at the Garden” (issued by Rounder, from memory)?
Another recommendation: the disk of music by Patrick Kelly of Cree, Co Clare, issued in the last year.
Ed.
# Posted on March 21st 2005 by Presumin Ed
Re: feeling a bit like Tantulus: out of print/hard to find fiddle recordings
Since we are in the age of technology, it would be great to think of some format to save a mega archive. Otherwise, we will be losing real music heritage.
My best luck has been going to the recording company sites, such as Shenachie. I was recently in a situation of trying to replace a CD and finding it for sale at a huge price through Amazon.com. I did an intensive search and found my CD, but also found it at Shenachie for the regular price. Best Wishes.
# Posted on March 21st 2005 by CeolCairdeas
Re: feeling a bit like Tantulus: out of print/hard to find fiddle recordings
Well there's the Irish Traditional Music Archive:
http://www.itma.ie
If you're ever in that neck of the woods, I'd recommend a visit.
# Posted on March 21st 2005 by Presumin Ed
Re: feeling a bit like Tantulus: out of print/hard to find fiddle recordings
Thanks Pingu. I have the Byrnes already and think he's fantastic. So full of life! I was just wondering if there's more out there--certainly wish there was! Thanks to Reg Hall anyway for what there is, even if his piano isn't always spot on.
I have to say Ceol I deeply envy you for living in the Sierra. I lived in California for a little over a year in the Bay Area and got away every weekend to the Santa Cruz mountains or the Diablo range & sometimes longer trips to the Sierra. The hills and mountains of California are one of the best places I've been. I understand why people who leave CA go into withdrawal.... I think the nature of California is happiness-producing in the same way Irish music is.
Ed, I'm definitely getting the Seolte Seidte though some of the fiddle tracks are the the Milestone which i already have. I'm very curious about the singing, which I am not familiar with yet, though i expect I'll learn a lot about it if I hope to play slow airs some day. The All Ireland Champion disc is as amazing as everybody says & I have to say cheers for Bridie Lafferty because she _added_ to the greatness of the recording in my opinion. Too often pianists are just "there" or even detract. I hope they do release the Ceol an Clair because I understand it contains some of the few published recordings by Junior Crehan. Is Kevin Creehan's disc very good? I don't know the Patrick Kelly but will definitely check out the disc. & I'll try Claire & the lving tradition & see if they can help me out. Even though those discs are out of print I know there must be copies lying around somewhere.
# Posted on March 21st 2005 by 2ndFiddle
Re: feeling a bit like Tantulus: out of print/hard to find fiddle recordings
ed , can you tell me a bit about the O'keefe RTE disk? its sounds good and i want to know more about it!
# Posted on March 21st 2005 by cliodhnaL_fiddle
Re: feeling a bit like Tantulus: out of print/hard to find fiddle recordings
2ndFiddle: my two favorite places to practice music near where I live are along a strong river. One is a 400 year old Live Oak Tree. I can really understand the ancient "tree of life" thing. It grew southward to catch the light, and it has a perfect little nook underneath to sit. The other one is along some rapids. There is a boulder with a perfect perch for one person to play in privacy. I was referred to in another thread as a "Woodsey Nutter." Well, it works for me. Best Wishes.
# Posted on March 21st 2005 by CeolCairdeas
Re: feeling a bit like Tantulus: out of print/hard to find fiddle recordings
You could try Veteran Records (in England). they do have a website and you should be able to get Casey in the Cowhouse, Lucy Farr's 'Heart and Home' there, and probably a few more as well.
I too would recommend 'Milestone at the Garden' and also 'Past Masters of Irish Fiddle' (not sure of the label - maybe Topic)
When you start delving into this stuff you wonder how much else there is that's not currently available!
When people swap trad music recordings, what is the favoured format - does the cassette still rule supreme?
# Posted on March 21st 2005 by Sharon the Flute
Re: feeling a bit like Tantulus: out of print/hard to find fiddle recordings
Ceol, the oak trees of California are the stars in her crown. Every plant there from the sequoia down to miner's lettuce is wonderful but the oaks are fantastic. Far better to be a woodsey nutter in the mountains than a flatlander in paved places!
Believe it or not, I often play in basement!
Thanks Sharon, I checked out Veteran & it is a great site. I learned for instance that Martin Byrnes plays on Her Mantle So Green with Margaret Barry (& of course Michael Gorman). I was planning to get that disc anyway of course because I am a huge Gorman fan, but I was putting it off a little because I am not yet entirely inured (despite repeated exposure) to the good Ms. Barry's almost demonic banjo accompaniments. I have not heard her singing much-storied singing yet though so the CD will be well worth it. I also noticed on the site (which had a different blurb for the video than other sites I have seen) that the video Come West Along the Road has footage of Junior Crehan (!) & Denis Murphy among many other greats). Alas that it does not appear to be available in U.S./Canadian VHS format (or, heaven forfend, DVD)!
Which leads me to the (probably incorrect) surmise that most collectors still exchange cassettes despite the amazing ease of digital transfer. As for the ITMA, Ed, no doubt you are right but what good is an archive in the digital/global age if it isn't accessible? Especially given the Irish Diaspora? Unless you are a Dubliner or an academic on fellowship what good is the existence of that doubtlesslessly-wonderful Library-of-Alexandria? They should digitalize everything and put it online & accessible (for a fair fee), negotiating permissions and arranging for royalties where necessary or possible. Access for academic researchers of Irish Traditional Music? Fine! (I do wish there were more books on the subject.) But what about access for traditional players? There are elements out there who seem to desire playing to be very "traditional", but on the other hand nobody seems to be doing much to make classic (& extremely "authentic") recordings easily available. It's like an archives-holder version of the old-fashioned fiddler mentality where a player (like Neillidh Boyle) might be reluctant to play or record for fear his interpretations or tunes would be imitated or his tricks "ripped off". If you have a light for Christ's sake don't hide it under a bushel basket! If the itma needs somebody to digitalize all that stuff & have nobody else for the job I'll go over & do it myself if it takes ten years! Three cheers anyway for the great collector & trad hero Peter Kennedy who makes his life's work available in digital format!
Um, sorry for that tirade. Sharon, cool that you played with those greats (checked out your id)!
# Posted on March 22nd 2005 by 2ndFiddle
Re: feeling a bit like Tantulus: out of print/hard to find fiddle recordings
Oh, I nearly forgot--Sharon, I didn't see those recordings on the Veteran site. Were you there recently? I dropped them an email just in case.
# Posted on March 22nd 2005 by 2ndFiddle
Re: The Irish Traditional Music Archive
I suspect that the source of your problems with the lack of general availability of material from the Archive is rooted more in lack of resources than intent to withold! It is an Archive after all - not sure they are in the business of Processing and Releasing.
I highly recommend spending a day there if you find yourself in Dublin! Marvelous collections of recordings and printed material. I can't wait to go back...
# Posted on March 22nd 2005 by _Steph_
Re: feeling a bit like Tantulus: out of print/hard to find fiddle recordings
Right you are, Steph. I wasn't wholly in earnest! (I hope) & I'll definitely go next time I make it to Dublin. I'm sure lack of resources is a serious problem. Though I am not sure that the logical next step for archives in the digital age is not to become clearing-houses rather than museums or partial tombs. Back in the Gutenburg days, or with the monks with the quills & parchment & vellum, or even further back with the ol' papyrus, books were difficult to reproduce, so good libraries became meccas. But now books can be scanned and made accessible to millions in a matter of a few hours.... Same goes for music. Once you had to have cannisters or phonograph discs or reel-to-reel tapes, but now we have mp3s. Why not reinvent the archive by literally "thinking outside of the box"? (I reeally hate that idiom, but it seemed appropriate here.) The only problem with the clearing-house concept is permissions and copyright laws, which are becoming increasingly restrictive as the big publishing comapanies lobby for more and more extensions. In America it is possible to tie up rights for as long as 120 years, which seems absurd to me, especially when you consider that rights on _computer software_ last as long as 90 years (?!)
Now I am a big fan of the Byrne convention (and of old Queen Anne before that!) and was ashamed America didn't join the convention sooner--makes our objections to Chinese piracy look a bit hypocritical now. Dickens was deeply upset by American piracy (well before Byrne of Course!), and even Professor Tolkien, in much more recent days, got seriously ripped off by unauthorized paperbacks. So it may be that in the future an archive will have to have a lawyer or two on staff, which can get pretty expensive; but I bet there are plenty of lawyers who would, out of love of art of knowledge, do at least some of the work pro bono.
Um, there I go again. Sorry!
# Posted on March 22nd 2005 by 2ndFiddle
Re: feeling a bit like Tantulus: out of print/hard to find fiddle recordings
oops, that should have been "Berne Convention", sorry !
# Posted on March 22nd 2005 by 2ndFiddle
Re: feeling a bit like Tantulus: out of print/hard to find fiddle recordings
I also love the old stuff, and have heaps of it piled up too. I've something from just about everyone mentioned on this page, for instance! And a lot more - old pipers, fluters. If any of y'all have tapes of the modern fiddlers/fluters I'd be glad to swap a bit. Maybe some of that workshop stuff. Mostly the solo or duos I like.
After you buy the John Vesey, Coleman, Morrison/Killoran, Topic Irish Dance etc., Patrick Kelly, Shanachie Reissues (70s records), Whatever Phillipe at CelticGrooves has, etc. etc. etc., you'll have a tidy heap of the old playing to listen to.
Also, Mr. Fiddle,
"Three cheers anyway for the great collector & trad hero Peter Kennedy who makes his life's work available in digital format!"
Actually some of that is other people's work - Peter's Seamus Ennis "Fairy Piper" CD is an Outlet LP from the late 60s, with three bits Peter recorded in the 50s, which admittedly are utterly fantastic.
# Posted on March 23rd 2005 by Kevin Rietmann
Re: feeling a bit like Tantulus: out of print/hard to find fiddle recordings
On the Kevin Crehan CD, I’d say definitely worth getting if you like great honest-to-goodness solo fiddle playing (and I mean *solo*). And, what’s more, chock-full of tunes attributed to Junior Crehan (12 by my quick count). If on the other hand you like your music with assorted djembes, dijeridoos and synth effects, and ‘produced’ to within an inch of its life, then best steer clear of this.
As for the O’Keeffe disk, well where to begin? The recordings were made between September 1948 and January 1949 by Seamus Ennis with the Radio Eireann Mobile Recording Unit, when O’Keeffe would have been around 60 years old. Yet despite his age, the music has a wonderful lightness and fluidity. His playing of the dance music is reasonably quick, but it never sounds rushed. Rather it has great poise and assurance.
And then we come to the slow airs. For me his playing of slow airs is on a different plane to almost any other musician I know of. The sheer emotional power of his playing, shorn of mawkishness or artifice, is breathtaking. If you are looking to play slow airs yourself I would say this is essential listening.
All of the tracks are unaccompanied, except for two where he is joined by Denis Murphy, at one time a pupil of O’Keeffe’s. The sleeve notes which (usually!) come with the CD are excellent, giving a reasonably detailed account of the man’s life as well as plenty of the stories which would inevitably surround such an extraordinary character.
The “Come West Along The Road” video certainly used to be available in American format. I know ‘cos I erroneously bought one at Willie Clancy week! If you have no luck elsewhere, might be worth getting on to NPU (http://www.pipers.ie).
On the ITMA: I recall speaking a few years back to someone who at one time was involved in running the Archive, and raising the issue of access to the material. From what he had to say, it was clear there had been a lot of debate as to how the archive was to be constituted and its contents made available. Ultimately it was felt that the number one priority was preserving as much material as possible; and that therefore they had to be able to reassure musicians and singers that material that the ITMA recorded would not find its way onto the commercial market outside of their control and where they and their dependents would not benefit from it. Yes it’s a shame for those of us who don’t live down the road from Merrion Square, but the rationale does appear sound to me – you don’t want to risk not collecting some of this music because of extended legal haggling.
# Posted on March 23rd 2005 by Presumin Ed
Re: feeling a bit like Tantulus: out of print/hard to find fiddle recordings
Thanks for the offer Kevin. Only now I don't know how to go about arranging a swap? Are there particular recordings you are interested in? I guess I'll write you an email. & you are right about Folktrax, quite a few other collectors were at least partly responsible for some of the recordings....
Ed, you are certainly right that preservation is the first priority. O well.
I guess I am just optimistic that with minimal editing and a modest fee on a per-track, as-completed basis an arrangement could be reached that would benefit rights-holders and possibly even raise a bit of money for the archive to continue its digitalization project. A standard contract could be devised that holders could opt into if they chose, or opt out of if they did not want the arrangement. It could be devised so as to permit the holder to terminate at will on written notice. Anything to increase accessibility! It is even possible that that sort of publication agreement could leventually ead to commerical contracts for a few holders who wanted them. But I suppose general interest might be so small in any case that the incentive just wouldn't be there.... A pity.
Cliodhnal_fiddle, have you heard the more readily available recordings of O'Keeffe? I haven't been able to find very many. There is Kerry Fiddles at least, a few tracks of which also appear to be present on Rushy Mountain. Padraig also plays one track on The Lark In the Morning CD on the Tradition label, which is titled only "Jig," but which appears to be the tune called Denis Murphy's Slide in Matt Cranitch's Fiddle book. Beyond that I haven't been able to find anything. Denis Murphy and Julia Clifford who were brother and sister and pupils of Padraig, play very much in his style. I seem to remember that Paddy Cronin learned from Padraig too, but he went to New York and got completely Colemanized (sounds very nice though!), at least as far as I can tell from the one track by him on The Milestone in the Garden. Interestingly Denis also spent a lot of time in New York but he completely rejected Colemanization.
# Posted on March 23rd 2005 by 2ndFiddle
Re: feeling a bit like Tantulus: out of print/hard to find fiddle recordings
Paddy didn't turn into a Colemanclone exactly, he was a fan and kept much of his original style in the end. The track on TMatG is definitely Kerry tunes not Sligo, although at the session where he recorded those tunes he also did medleys lifted whole hog from Morrison and Killoran. Great player!
# Posted on March 24th 2005 by Kevin Rietmann
Re: feeling a bit like Tantulus: out of print/hard to find fiddle recordings
I've heard only the one side by Cronin and it sounds great to me. And I suppose it was only natural to try to absorb new influences. I'd very much like to hear more of Paddy! Only I don't know to get hold of him.
# Posted on March 24th 2005 by 2ndFiddle
Re: feeling a bit like Tantulus: out of print/hard to find fiddle recordings
2ndFiddle:
All you have to do is get yourself to Miltown this July - and see the man for yourself! He'd be the fiddler typically camped out in front of Malone's with a big grin plastered on his face, playing for anyone who cares to stop and listen...
I love the older music - there is something elusive there that feels like it will be lost as soon as they stop playing, but continues to haunt long afterwards.
# Posted on March 24th 2005 by _Steph_
Re: feeling a bit like Tantulus: out of print/hard to find fiddle recordings
Steph, would that be Tom Malone's in Miltown Malbay Co. Clare? I'd love to get over there this July but doesn't look good with my employment situation. Maybe next year. I've been over to Ireland quite a few times to visit my Mom's family in Mayo, but (unfortunately) I was not yet interested in listening to/playing the country dance music. I did go into a few pubs and heard a few sessions, but it was all just "jigs & reels" to me. Now I'm obsessed. Next time I go though I'll bring a fiddle and will be all ears!
Are commercial recordings of Mr. Cronin currently available?
# Posted on March 24th 2005 by 2ndFiddle
Re: feeling a bit like Tantulus: out of print/hard to find fiddle recordings
Yep that would be the very one! Tom Malone's...I've had many a good tune there. Ahhhh ye must get yourself to Willie Week eventually - a week long tune orgy with fabulous musicians all around to play with.
You might want to check out this link:
http://media-generation.com/Articles/NEFD.pdf
There's a very endearing quote from Paddy Cronin at the end of the transcription:
"Nothing would make me give up the fiddle. I'll be playing it till I die. I never made a penny on it, but I put it on the dining room table and every time I go by it, I play a tune on it."
Not sure about recordings. I'll keep my eyes peeled.
Cheers!
# Posted on March 25th 2005 by _Steph_
Re: feeling a bit like Tantulus: out of print/hard to find fiddle recordings
Thanks Steph! My computer turned the Article download into gibberish, but I went to media-generation.com and found a DVD documentary there called New England Fiddles which apparently includes footage of Paddy Cronin, amongst half-a-dozen other fiddlers from various folk traditions.
# Posted on March 25th 2005 by 2ndFiddle
Re: feeling a bit like Tantulus: out of print/hard to find fiddle recordings
Back to the poor ITMA: I must observe, digitalization is no sweat! I just put the Star of Munster Trio cassette into mp3 format using my (cheap) iRiver mp3 recorder and it sounds great. Now I can slow it down on Windows Media Player to practice at various speeds to build up to tempo & even burn a backup CD. Life is good.
# Posted on March 25th 2005 by 2ndFiddle