Unison playing is one of the most important things in diddley music. It's kind of the bedrock of playing well. You need to play the unison thing before you start to mess about. It's one of the things that sets this music apart from Jazz. (Jazzers don't get it).
Wherever you find good diddley, you will find great unison.
thanks Michael. I know what you mean. I'm playing with a mandolinnist (mandoliner?) , me on the fiddle, since a year and a half. Now we have a decent guitar player and we want to do some gigs. we have worked hard playing unison but want to add some thing in some tunes to "add color".
it's the maids of mitchelstown, tune + countermelody as played by the Bothy Band, with guitar chords.
Also, if it's just a bit of colour you want, and you've got time to rehearse and get used to arrangements, just mess about with flicking up a third every now and then. Works quite well with repeated motifs - but it's easy to overdo this, so be careful. Likely to induce scowls if done too much (which is sometimes as often as once) in sessions
There are four or five books of duet/trio arrangements of folk tunes (not all ITM) published by or available from the Northumbrian Pipers Society.
All good practise.
Also with fiddley music, unison playing in octaves is great. Off the top of my head, I have heard this in both Donegal and Cork/Kerry music. One of my favorite fiddle duet CDs is Northern Lights by Kevin and Seamus Glackin.
In addition to the octaves Jode is talking about, there are quite a few things you can and should do before resorting to harmony and countermelody (IMHO smiley smiley). To me, good variations played in unison are more impressive than one player just *not* playing the basic melody any more. Skipping a note or two is great (as if you're taking a breath) - it's usually the sixth and seventh 8th note in the second to last bar before a big finish.
As far as harmony and countermelody are concerned: the less you use them the more impressive they are. For a great example of a brilliant countermelody check out the Chieftains doing "The Morning Dew" on "The Very Best of the Claddagh Years". In fact, check out the Chieftains for great examples of pretty much everything, as far as arrangements are concerned.
Or Kerri, for duets, check out Contentment is Wealth by Molloy and Keane. These guys have been playing together so long with the Chieftans that their duet playing is Fab. Or maybe the have a newer recording?
Also, quite a lot depends on your guitar player. If he knows what things like "deceptive cadence" and "relative minor" mean, and knows where to put them, you'll be alright.
I think good arrangements are more about the use of space than layering up all kinds of different sounds. My ears only notice something special if it wasn't there a minute ago. When and what you *don't* play is more important than what you play.
It's hard to beat sibling duets. I had the great pleasure of playing a gig recently with Cormac and Eamon De Barra and was blown away by their duet playing. See http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display.php/1301
thanks you all.
I know: octaves, some thirds, variations, not overuse....
As I said i'm just want to add some color. I love this music and don't want to make it into simphonic music. I'm just looking for examples, maybe something you posted in the comments of the tunes section (i.e.: ttp://www.thesession.org/tunes/display.php/19)
The maids of mitchelstown is one of my favourites tunes. sometimes play doublestops ot the chords in fifths and ninths in the b part and sound interesting.
Apologize for my poor english. Keep the music, not the dots.
Just saw Dennis Liddy and Dermot Lernihan last night. They did lots of harmony playing. Used it on the 2nd & 3rd times through on maybe 1/3 of the tunes they played. They did lots of other non-unison stuff as well (octaves, one of them leaving out or holding notes while the other played the melody, etc.) Unfortunately, they don't have a recording together.
I think it is very important in this music to keep in mind the idea of *melodic flow* at all times. If you play a counter-melody, it has to be a melody in its own right, not just something which harmonizes with the main melody. To my ear, incessant two part playing can become tedious very quickly - what works best is where the two players play in unison most of the time, with one or the other occasionally breaking off into the odd note or phrase of harmony. The more spontaneity and the less arrangement that goes into it, the better, in my opinion. But, obviously, it takes a very experienced and/or gifted musician to do it without thinking about it.
I find that plucked instruments are more forgiving when playing countermelody than, say, fiddles or flutes, as they can hover on the boundary between melody and backing. Since you (Fer) are playing together with a mandolin player, this is worth bearing in mind - if the fiddle is playing a lot of countermelody it is likely to overpower the mandolin anyway.
Fer - As you've been playing fiddle for 15 years (5 years longer than I've been playing mandolin and 16 years longer than I've been playing fiddle), I probably don't need to tell you this, but *always* listen to what the other player is doing and reinforce it, complement it or contrast with it.
For fiddle harmonies, you can find plenty of music in the Taigh na Teud books ,there are two for fiddle duets,with chords for harp or guitar accompaniment.
duets
duets
Don`t want to begin a discussion on harmony, second voices..etc. just asking for some help to find some examples, please.
# Posted on February 15th 2005 by fer
Re: duets
Unison playing is one of the most important things in diddley music. It's kind of the bedrock of playing well. You need to play the unison thing before you start to mess about. It's one of the things that sets this music apart from Jazz. (Jazzers don't get it).
Wherever you find good diddley, you will find great unison.
# Posted on February 15th 2005 by llig leahcim
Re: duets
thanks Michael. I know what you mean. I'm playing with a mandolinnist (mandoliner?) , me on the fiddle, since a year and a half. Now we have a decent guitar player and we want to do some gigs. we have worked hard playing unison but want to add some thing in some tunes to "add color".
# Posted on February 15th 2005 by fer
Re: duets
Here, try this:
http://www.me.psu.edu/lamancusa/tunes/mitchelstown.pdf
it's the maids of mitchelstown, tune + countermelody as played by the Bothy Band, with guitar chords.
Also, if it's just a bit of colour you want, and you've got time to rehearse and get used to arrangements, just mess about with flicking up a third every now and then. Works quite well with repeated motifs - but it's easy to overdo this, so be careful. Likely to induce scowls if done too much (which is sometimes as often as once) in sessions
# Posted on February 15th 2005 by Q
Re: duets
There are four or five books of duet/trio arrangements of folk tunes (not all ITM) published by or available from the Northumbrian Pipers Society.
All good practise.
# Posted on February 15th 2005 by geoffwright
Re: duets
matt seattle's "airs for pairs" aren't pure itm but are great fun. there's three volumes out there somewhere, mally's i think.
# Posted on February 15th 2005 by Dont
Re: duets
Also with fiddley music, unison playing in octaves is great. Off the top of my head, I have heard this in both Donegal and Cork/Kerry music. One of my favorite fiddle duet CDs is Northern Lights by Kevin and Seamus Glackin.
# Posted on February 15th 2005 by Jode
Re: duets
In addition to the octaves Jode is talking about, there are quite a few things you can and should do before resorting to harmony and countermelody (IMHO smiley smiley). To me, good variations played in unison are more impressive than one player just *not* playing the basic melody any more. Skipping a note or two is great (as if you're taking a breath) - it's usually the sixth and seventh 8th note in the second to last bar before a big finish.
As far as harmony and countermelody are concerned: the less you use them the more impressive they are. For a great example of a brilliant countermelody check out the Chieftains doing "The Morning Dew" on "The Very Best of the Claddagh Years". In fact, check out the Chieftains for great examples of pretty much everything, as far as arrangements are concerned.
# Posted on February 15th 2005 by Kerri Brown
Re: duets
n mp3 of the tune I mentioned is here:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00001U03G/qid=1108487762/sr=1-24/ref=sr_1_24/104-3185794-3155901?v=glance&s=music
# Posted on February 15th 2005 by Kerri Brown
Re: duets
Or Kerri, for duets, check out Contentment is Wealth by Molloy and Keane. These guys have been playing together so long with the Chieftans that their duet playing is Fab. Or maybe the have a newer recording?
# Posted on February 15th 2005 by Jode
Re: duets
Will do, Jode.
# Posted on February 15th 2005 by Kerri Brown
Re: duets
Also, quite a lot depends on your guitar player. If he knows what things like "deceptive cadence" and "relative minor" mean, and knows where to put them, you'll be alright.
I think good arrangements are more about the use of space than layering up all kinds of different sounds. My ears only notice something special if it wasn't there a minute ago. When and what you *don't* play is more important than what you play.
IMHO
IMHO
IMHO
IMHO
IMHO
# Posted on February 15th 2005 by Kerri Brown
Re: duets
Some jazzers get it. The bop jazzers used to play the “head” of a tune in unison.
# Posted on February 15th 2005 by Bob himself
Re: duets
It's hard to beat sibling duets. I had the great pleasure of playing a gig recently with Cormac and Eamon De Barra and was blown away by their duet playing. See http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display.php/1301
# Posted on February 15th 2005 by Bob himself
Re: duets
Also check out the Wrigley sisters and Niall and Cuillian Vallely (sp?) if you're sibling shopping.
# Posted on February 15th 2005 by Kerri Brown
Re: duets
"relative minor"
That would be his girlfriend, right?
KFG
# Posted on February 16th 2005 by KFG
Re: duets
Fer, it's a mandolinist for classical music, and a middler
for trad.
# Posted on February 16th 2005 by BegF
Re: duets
thanks you all.
I know: octaves, some thirds, variations, not overuse....
As I said i'm just want to add some color. I love this music and don't want to make it into simphonic music. I'm just looking for examples, maybe something you posted in the comments of the tunes section (i.e.: ttp://www.thesession.org/tunes/display.php/19)
The maids of mitchelstown is one of my favourites tunes. sometimes play doublestops ot the chords in fifths and ninths in the b part and sound interesting.
Apologize for my poor english. Keep the music, not the dots.
# Posted on February 16th 2005 by fer
Re: duets
Just saw Dennis Liddy and Dermot Lernihan last night. They did lots of harmony playing. Used it on the 2nd & 3rd times through on maybe 1/3 of the tunes they played. They did lots of other non-unison stuff as well (octaves, one of them leaving out or holding notes while the other played the melody, etc.) Unfortunately, they don't have a recording together.
# Posted on February 16th 2005 by GaryAMartin
Re: duets
I think it is very important in this music to keep in mind the idea of *melodic flow* at all times. If you play a counter-melody, it has to be a melody in its own right, not just something which harmonizes with the main melody. To my ear, incessant two part playing can become tedious very quickly - what works best is where the two players play in unison most of the time, with one or the other occasionally breaking off into the odd note or phrase of harmony. The more spontaneity and the less arrangement that goes into it, the better, in my opinion. But, obviously, it takes a very experienced and/or gifted musician to do it without thinking about it.
I find that plucked instruments are more forgiving when playing countermelody than, say, fiddles or flutes, as they can hover on the boundary between melody and backing. Since you (Fer) are playing together with a mandolin player, this is worth bearing in mind - if the fiddle is playing a lot of countermelody it is likely to overpower the mandolin anyway.
Fer - As you've been playing fiddle for 15 years (5 years longer than I've been playing mandolin and 16 years longer than I've been playing fiddle), I probably don't need to tell you this, but *always* listen to what the other player is doing and reinforce it, complement it or contrast with it.
# Posted on February 16th 2005 by ragaman
Re: duets
For fiddle harmonies, you can find plenty of music in the Taigh na Teud books ,there are two for fiddle duets,with chords for harp or guitar accompaniment.
# Posted on February 16th 2005 by gummidge