I can't remember if I've asked this hre before but I posted this question on another forum a few weeks ago with no real answer so I'll try here. Myself and "she who must be obeyed" love nothing more than to sit down around the kitchen table and play a few tunes together. Unfortunately our two year old will have none of it and goes ballistic. Are there any Dr. Phil types out there with a solution ? I got a whole load of e-mails last time from people suggesting that I get him a bodhran so that he can play along.
Pat.
Duct tape and a dummy-tit (pacifier) soaked in Power's should do the trick.
Seriously though, some amateur psychologists would suggest ignoring your child 'til they stop crying. This will either work a treat, or your son will simply bawl for two hours solid.
Since kids at that age crave attention you might find that involving your child will work. I'm not suggesting a bodhran - how about sharing your instrument with them every so often? When I used to mind my younger brothers (a long time ago) they used to go bananas for one of those cheap Fisher Price harmonicas.
I have a friend that gave his child a guitar tuned in DADGAD, except then they had to play tunes in one key only.
I assume it is the mother that is the problematic ingredient. I know one mother that would stand and play with son crying at her feet. Kind of a cry-it-out method. I don't think it worked, but I could be wrong.
What I did, and I think my wife has tried this too, is to work out a set time. We borrowed the idea from daycare, where they had activity time that they called "work". It was play, but it was individual play and had a set time limit.
So, I would say to my son, it's time for some work. You find something to work on for 30 minutes, and I am going to work on my fiddle. He would interupt me, but generally kept by the rules and I was able to practice.
Of course, you need to be honorable and only practice 30 minutes if that is what you said you were going to do. And you have to spend time with them before and after. No rewards should be given. You both have work to do, and you both need to do it. (A thank you might be in order, but try to keep it normal. It is work afterall.)
Your wife and you should take your playing seriously and not be giggling and laughing. That would seem exclusionary.
If it is because he feels he is being ignored, then you have to bear in mind that a child would rather be reprimanded than ignored. Hence the "child being naughty to get attention" that you see in supermarkets and streets all over the world.
It may be that he dislikes the sound - in particular the volume. Two live instruments in a kitchen is quite a loud and startling thing to suddenly happen to a two year old.
Jode's idea of "time for work" is a good one - it involves the child but enables you to do what you need.
When my daughter was two, she would turn in her book to a nursery rhyme (words only - no dots) and I would play it by ear on the whistle. After a couple of months I could play the whistle by ear, and my daughter grew up with a love of all sorts of music. She now plays several instruments extremely well, and still loves the music too.
Toddlers are experts at timing their desperate clamoring need for attention with your important phone calls, need for sleep, and bowel movements. (My sons are 14 months apart--as a work-at-home dad, I had two boys in diapers for more years than as teenagers they'd like you all to know.)
Timing is everything. Make time to practice when they're playing with a friend. Or soundproof a music room so you can play when they sleep. Arrange an hour or two of daycare swapping with toddler-beseiged friends.
Another possibility comes to mind. My youngest son is sensitive to certain noises. For example, he cannot bear to be within earshot of a running vacuum cleaner. As a toddler, sustained loud noises drove him totally bonkers, so playing fiddle or banjo in the same room was out of the question. But his intolerance for such noise is not his fault--it's how he's wired. His tantrums were not willful, selfish attacks on my music time but physiological reactions to an overstimulation he could not bear. We figured this out very quickly and made accommodations, to everyone's relief and benefit.
Early on, I decided that whenever possible, which includes most if not all at-home music playing, I would immediately stop and give my children my full attention whenever they interupted me. This was not an easy decision to make, but I decided that for me, and for my children, it was the best decision. Once the immediate reason for being interrupted is dealt with, whether it takes 5 seconds or an hour, I go back to playing music again. Knowing that they can have my attention at any time, they feel less compelled to interrupt. At the age of 2, though, they still interrupt a lot (our youngest is 3 now. Our oldest is 21.) The older they get, the more my response to being interrupted is geared towards communicating a need for greater maturity and discretion on their part in interrupting me. At young ages (2,3) I will let them interrupt to play with them. Sometimes, depending on mood, I will tell them that I want to play my guitar. It may get turned into a game. Our current 3 year old loves to bang on his toy drum - and actually has a good feel for rhythm, so sometimes he joins me. Sometimes he wants me to sing a certain song. (I think he is the only person in the world who likes my singing) Sometimes he gets comfortable with me playing the guitar and does his own thing. Sometimes (uh, a lot of the time), I end up putting the guitar down.
It is more difficult when my wife and I are trying to play music together, especially because this is usually when we have to rehearse new music for a gig, so there is pressure, a deadline, and limited time. It is interesting that when we (my wife and I) are making music together, the children (at a pre-school age) nearly always want our attention. This has been consistent since the oldest was only 2.
Cecil, I agree that you do have to respond to their interuptions. If you ignore them, they feel unwanted and then the whole thing breaks down. I would answer questions, then say OK, back to work now, we have another 20 minutes to go.
And, when he wanted to play music with me, I would encourage that, even if it took away from actual practice.
Bit of a tangent here: Sometimes, child-initiated musicus interruptus can stimulate the muse. When our first child was in the toddler years, I came home one afternoon to find my wife plinking around on the mandolin, despite our daughter's best efforts to dissuade her.
"I've been composing a tune," my wife said. "I've got an 'A' part, and I'm trying to come up with a 'B,' but she won't let me!"
When our kid, even with me around to try and distract her, refused to leave my wife alone, she shut herself off in our bedroom. After about an hour or so, she had put together a "B" part and the tune was complete.
The title? "The Banished Musician."
Around the same time, we were trying to learn the song "Diglake Fields" off a De Danaan album. We'd pretty much figured out the melody and the lyrics and were practicing it, but again, the little 'un would kick up a fuss. So in one of those fits of sleep-deprived, exasperated creativity, my wife and I suddenly found ourselves composing our first hostile baby-rocking song. I won't give you the whole thing, but here's the first verse (sung to the tune of "Diglake Fields"):
Oh what shall you do
my poor little girl?
Your parents are so very mean
They never pay any attention to you
unless you turn red and you scream
Or you make the largest mess in your pants
for all the world to smell
So when they play, you're quite resolved
to make your parents' life hell
We never did learn the real "Diglake Fields," but boy did we sing our version a lot for the next few years.
Never had problems with the kids when practising, but I had a dog once that would go into the corner and howl when I played the cello. And more recently the cat would always flick her ears and march out of the room when I picked up the fiddle. Darned critics!!
Trevor
I had a boy that sat on a bodhran, passed wind, and was immediately playing triplet rolls. So, trying a different tact, any safe wind instrument would probably get mouthed and sucked on a lot, and therefore not be a noise issue. However, infants making a few toots with parents smiling might be the start of a music career. Best wishes.
Depends to some extend on what you want from your child...whatever ploy you use on him will come back to you in a few years time! I generally practised and worked while mine was asleep at that age, but from when he was perhaps 5 I set time limtis for interuptions, very short for a little one, so "I will be able to talk with you in 15 minutes, please only interupt me for something very important before that" Then I'd stop after 15 minutes and spent 15 minutes with him, then another 15 minutes for me and so on. Now, as a thirteen tear old he sometimes says that he cannot respond to my requests until he's "finished this chapter, about 10 minutes I'd say", but then he's also pulled me up occassionally with a comment like, "We'll talk about that later mum, when you've calmed down".
So my advice is just remember that your kids learn from and will mimic your strategies. Have fun
Geesh, I can't believe none of you can see the obvious problem here. If your child cries everytime you start playing -- your playing sucks. Kids are very hosest and objective you know.
The answer is simple. Just wait a little while until your child quits bugging you. I had this problem and only had to wait twelve years. Now I can practice pretty much whenever I want without much fuss from my kids. I mean, they insult me a little about my taste in music, but this is a small matter compared to other teenage issues we're dealing with.
I enjoyed reading all of these, as our daughter, now 15 1/2 months is now having to deal with us practicing at home and can't decide whether she likes it or not. We just set her down wtih some "toys" (last night it was a bunch of egg cartons) and we play in the adjoining room so it's not too loud for her. My husband and I were practicing a song while I played my fiddle and sang (singing is not exactly my, um, gift, though), and when we stopped, she was "singing" while playing with the egg cartons, so of course we thought she was brilliant and told her so. (just hopefully she sings better than momma) I think it's all in the toys you can set out for them. Thanks for all the ideas!
My daughters first sentence was "Daddy no banj" (she was trying to watch Bambi & had had enough). She's 3 now and sometimes lets me play, but after a few minutes wants to play at giving me a different coloured plectrum to use every 30 seconds. I like having her in the room when I "practice" anyway.
As an aside, she calls pretty much any instrument a banjo (she has progressed from "banj"). This can be quite amusing when you pass a classical string quartet entertaining in the town centre & your toddler shouts "look daddy the men got banjos".
Oh, you were looking for help weren't you ?
Don't let your toddler near a tin whistle or any similar instrument that s/he can (and believe me, will) play as a 3rd octave drone for the next 4 hours without becoming bored.
We had a dog for awhile that was rescued from an abusive owner that whipped it with a stick. It would bark incessantly at anyone picking up a fiddle bow or bodhran tipper because they looked like sticks.
I have a 3 year old who also wants attention in th emiddle of practise, and I try as much as possible to respond. I never take the instrument off, but give him time to talk, show me a toy or what ever else...............then back to it. He now interupts less and less.
I also had an old mandolin that I said was HIS and he could play along with me. He sometimes enjoys just sitting next to strumming gently along ( yes, tension slacken! ) and he loves it.
Wee Fergus's bath time is near enough the only time I can get any box practice done...but most of that is Twinkle Twinkle Little Star, The Wheels on the Bus and How Much is That Doggy in the Window? ...but I usually try and stick the odd jig or reel on to the end of one of these, before he realises I've hijacked his "set"...then it's scream time. But, sod it, who cares? Ye can't buy that special time ye have wi wee weans, so it's highly possible to forego a couple of year's practice for that time - it's special for everyone - parents, siblings and of course mostly for the weans themselves.
When my granddaughter, who was 11 months old at the time, and her parents visited us from Belgium a few weeks ago I played the fiddle to her. The first time she had heard it, I believe. She was fascinated by the sound and wanted me to play some more when I put it away. In a few days time she’ll get more of my playing when we go over to Belgium for her birthday. Her mother plays the cello to her as well, and this usually starts her off banging away on a toy keyboard.
Trevor
I just taught mine to say "Up ya boy ya!" or "Pull, ya hoor!!" when they hear me practicing. My wife thinks it's part of their English as a second language training.
Just wait till they hit 15 and want to play "Enter Sandman" in the basement with their buddies, at maximum decibels! Then you'll have the opportunity to go ballistic right back at 'em.
Give him a percussion instrument, and make him part of the action. With luck, he will outgrow the percussion thing, and not become a bodhran player. Ha ha ha.
But seriously, there is no age too young to start being involved in music.
AL Brown
Practising at home
Practising at home
I can't remember if I've asked this hre before but I posted this question on another forum a few weeks ago with no real answer so I'll try here. Myself and "she who must be obeyed" love nothing more than to sit down around the kitchen table and play a few tunes together. Unfortunately our two year old will have none of it and goes ballistic. Are there any Dr. Phil types out there with a solution ? I got a whole load of e-mails last time from people suggesting that I get him a bodhran so that he can play along.
Pat.
# Posted on February 11th 2005 by Patkiwi
Re: Practising at home
Duct tape and a dummy-tit (pacifier) soaked in Power's should do the trick.
Seriously though, some amateur psychologists would suggest ignoring your child 'til they stop crying. This will either work a treat, or your son will simply bawl for two hours solid.
Since kids at that age crave attention you might find that involving your child will work. I'm not suggesting a bodhran - how about sharing your instrument with them every so often? When I used to mind my younger brothers (a long time ago) they used to go bananas for one of those cheap Fisher Price harmonicas.
C
# Posted on February 11th 2005 by Conán McDonnell
Re: Practising at home
I have a friend that gave his child a guitar tuned in DADGAD, except then they had to play tunes in one key only.
I assume it is the mother that is the problematic ingredient. I know one mother that would stand and play with son crying at her feet. Kind of a cry-it-out method. I don't think it worked, but I could be wrong.
What I did, and I think my wife has tried this too, is to work out a set time. We borrowed the idea from daycare, where they had activity time that they called "work". It was play, but it was individual play and had a set time limit.
So, I would say to my son, it's time for some work. You find something to work on for 30 minutes, and I am going to work on my fiddle. He would interupt me, but generally kept by the rules and I was able to practice.
Of course, you need to be honorable and only practice 30 minutes if that is what you said you were going to do. And you have to spend time with them before and after. No rewards should be given. You both have work to do, and you both need to do it. (A thank you might be in order, but try to keep it normal. It is work afterall.)
Your wife and you should take your playing seriously and not be giggling and laughing. That would seem exclusionary.
Blah-de-blah. Just some ideas.
# Posted on February 11th 2005 by Jode
Re: Practising at home
Depends what the child is crying about.
If it is because he feels he is being ignored, then you have to bear in mind that a child would rather be reprimanded than ignored. Hence the "child being naughty to get attention" that you see in supermarkets and streets all over the world.
It may be that he dislikes the sound - in particular the volume. Two live instruments in a kitchen is quite a loud and startling thing to suddenly happen to a two year old.
Jode's idea of "time for work" is a good one - it involves the child but enables you to do what you need.
When my daughter was two, she would turn in her book to a nursery rhyme (words only - no dots) and I would play it by ear on the whistle. After a couple of months I could play the whistle by ear, and my daughter grew up with a love of all sorts of music. She now plays several instruments extremely well, and still loves the music too.
# Posted on February 11th 2005 by showaddydadito
Re: Practising at home
Toddlers are experts at timing their desperate clamoring need for attention with your important phone calls, need for sleep, and bowel movements. (My sons are 14 months apart--as a work-at-home dad, I had two boys in diapers for more years than as teenagers they'd like you all to know.)
Timing is everything. Make time to practice when they're playing with a friend. Or soundproof a music room so you can play when they sleep. Arrange an hour or two of daycare swapping with toddler-beseiged friends.
Another possibility comes to mind. My youngest son is sensitive to certain noises. For example, he cannot bear to be within earshot of a running vacuum cleaner. As a toddler, sustained loud noises drove him totally bonkers, so playing fiddle or banjo in the same room was out of the question. But his intolerance for such noise is not his fault--it's how he's wired. His tantrums were not willful, selfish attacks on my music time but physiological reactions to an overstimulation he could not bear. We figured this out very quickly and made accommodations, to everyone's relief and benefit.
# Posted on February 11th 2005 by Will Harmon
Re: Practising at home
Early on, I decided that whenever possible, which includes most if not all at-home music playing, I would immediately stop and give my children my full attention whenever they interupted me. This was not an easy decision to make, but I decided that for me, and for my children, it was the best decision. Once the immediate reason for being interrupted is dealt with, whether it takes 5 seconds or an hour, I go back to playing music again. Knowing that they can have my attention at any time, they feel less compelled to interrupt. At the age of 2, though, they still interrupt a lot (our youngest is 3 now. Our oldest is 21.) The older they get, the more my response to being interrupted is geared towards communicating a need for greater maturity and discretion on their part in interrupting me. At young ages (2,3) I will let them interrupt to play with them. Sometimes, depending on mood, I will tell them that I want to play my guitar. It may get turned into a game. Our current 3 year old loves to bang on his toy drum - and actually has a good feel for rhythm, so sometimes he joins me. Sometimes he wants me to sing a certain song. (I think he is the only person in the world who likes my singing) Sometimes he gets comfortable with me playing the guitar and does his own thing. Sometimes (uh, a lot of the time), I end up putting the guitar down.
It is more difficult when my wife and I are trying to play music together, especially because this is usually when we have to rehearse new music for a gig, so there is pressure, a deadline, and limited time. It is interesting that when we (my wife and I) are making music together, the children (at a pre-school age) nearly always want our attention. This has been consistent since the oldest was only 2.
Best wishes!
# Posted on February 11th 2005 by ceciltguitar
Re: Practising at home
Cecil, I agree that you do have to respond to their interuptions. If you ignore them, they feel unwanted and then the whole thing breaks down. I would answer questions, then say OK, back to work now, we have another 20 minutes to go.
And, when he wanted to play music with me, I would encourage that, even if it took away from actual practice.
# Posted on February 11th 2005 by Jode
Re: Practising at home
Bit of a tangent here: Sometimes, child-initiated musicus interruptus can stimulate the muse. When our first child was in the toddler years, I came home one afternoon to find my wife plinking around on the mandolin, despite our daughter's best efforts to dissuade her.
"I've been composing a tune," my wife said. "I've got an 'A' part, and I'm trying to come up with a 'B,' but she won't let me!"
When our kid, even with me around to try and distract her, refused to leave my wife alone, she shut herself off in our bedroom. After about an hour or so, she had put together a "B" part and the tune was complete.
The title? "The Banished Musician."
Around the same time, we were trying to learn the song "Diglake Fields" off a De Danaan album. We'd pretty much figured out the melody and the lyrics and were practicing it, but again, the little 'un would kick up a fuss. So in one of those fits of sleep-deprived, exasperated creativity, my wife and I suddenly found ourselves composing our first hostile baby-rocking song. I won't give you the whole thing, but here's the first verse (sung to the tune of "Diglake Fields"):
Oh what shall you do
my poor little girl?
Your parents are so very mean
They never pay any attention to you
unless you turn red and you scream
Or you make the largest mess in your pants
for all the world to smell
So when they play, you're quite resolved
to make your parents' life hell
We never did learn the real "Diglake Fields," but boy did we sing our version a lot for the next few years.
# Posted on February 11th 2005 by sts
Re: Practising at home
Never had problems with the kids when practising, but I had a dog once that would go into the corner and howl when I played the cello. And more recently the cat would always flick her ears and march out of the room when I picked up the fiddle. Darned critics!!
Trevor
# Posted on February 11th 2005 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Practising at home
I had a boy that sat on a bodhran, passed wind, and was immediately playing triplet rolls. So, trying a different tact, any safe wind instrument would probably get mouthed and sucked on a lot, and therefore not be a noise issue. However, infants making a few toots with parents smiling might be the start of a music career. Best wishes.
# Posted on February 11th 2005 by CeolCairdeas
Re: Practising at home
Depends to some extend on what you want from your child...whatever ploy you use on him will come back to you in a few years time! I generally practised and worked while mine was asleep at that age, but from when he was perhaps 5 I set time limtis for interuptions, very short for a little one, so "I will be able to talk with you in 15 minutes, please only interupt me for something very important before that" Then I'd stop after 15 minutes and spent 15 minutes with him, then another 15 minutes for me and so on. Now, as a thirteen tear old he sometimes says that he cannot respond to my requests until he's "finished this chapter, about 10 minutes I'd say", but then he's also pulled me up occassionally with a comment like, "We'll talk about that later mum, when you've calmed down".
So my advice is just remember that your kids learn from and will mimic your strategies. Have fun
# Posted on February 11th 2005 by carly
Re: Practising at home
Geesh, I can't believe none of you can see the obvious problem here. If your child cries everytime you start playing -- your playing sucks. Kids are very hosest and objective you know.
Hee hee hee
# Posted on February 11th 2005 by Phantom Button
Re: Practising at home
honest and objective even.
# Posted on February 11th 2005 by Phantom Button
Re: Practising at home
The answer is simple. Just wait a little while until your child quits bugging you. I had this problem and only had to wait twelve years. Now I can practice pretty much whenever I want without much fuss from my kids. I mean, they insult me a little about my taste in music, but this is a small matter compared to other teenage issues we're dealing with.
# Posted on February 11th 2005 by snertzy
Re: Practising at home
Think of all the tunes you could have learned in 12 years.
# Posted on February 11th 2005 by Phantom Button
Re: Practising at home
I learned lots of Raffi songs and the theme song from Sesame Street. Sigh.
# Posted on February 12th 2005 by snertzy
Re: Practising at home
I enjoyed reading all of these, as our daughter, now 15 1/2 months is now having to deal with us practicing at home and can't decide whether she likes it or not. We just set her down wtih some "toys" (last night it was a bunch of egg cartons) and we play in the adjoining room so it's not too loud for her. My husband and I were practicing a song while I played my fiddle and sang (singing is not exactly my, um, gift, though), and when we stopped, she was "singing" while playing with the egg cartons, so of course we thought she was brilliant and told her so. (just hopefully she sings better than momma) I think it's all in the toys you can set out for them. Thanks for all the ideas!
# Posted on February 12th 2005 by swillybay
Re: Practising at home
My daughters first sentence was "Daddy no banj" (she was trying to watch Bambi & had had enough). She's 3 now and sometimes lets me play, but after a few minutes wants to play at giving me a different coloured plectrum to use every 30 seconds. I like having her in the room when I "practice" anyway.
As an aside, she calls pretty much any instrument a banjo (she has progressed from "banj"). This can be quite amusing when you pass a classical string quartet entertaining in the town centre & your toddler shouts "look daddy the men got banjos".
Oh, you were looking for help weren't you ?
Don't let your toddler near a tin whistle or any similar instrument that s/he can (and believe me, will) play as a 3rd octave drone for the next 4 hours without becoming bored.
- chris
- chris
# Posted on February 12th 2005 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: Practising at home
We had a dog for awhile that was rescued from an abusive owner that whipped it with a stick. It would bark incessantly at anyone picking up a fiddle bow or bodhran tipper because they looked like sticks.
# Posted on February 12th 2005 by CeolCairdeas
Re: Practising at home
I have a 3 year old who also wants attention in th emiddle of practise, and I try as much as possible to respond. I never take the instrument off, but give him time to talk, show me a toy or what ever else...............then back to it. He now interupts less and less.
I also had an old mandolin that I said was HIS and he could play along with me. He sometimes enjoys just sitting next to strumming gently along ( yes, tension slacken! ) and he loves it.
ks
# Posted on February 13th 2005 by KS
Re: Practising at home
Wee Fergus's bath time is near enough the only time I can get any box practice done...but most of that is Twinkle Twinkle Little Star, The Wheels on the Bus and How Much is That Doggy in the Window? ...but I usually try and stick the odd jig or reel on to the end of one of these, before he realises I've hijacked his "set"...then it's scream time. But, sod it, who cares? Ye can't buy that special time ye have wi wee weans, so it's highly possible to forego a couple of year's practice for that time - it's special for everyone - parents, siblings and of course mostly for the weans themselves.
# Posted on February 13th 2005 by Rudall the time
Re: Practising at home
When my granddaughter, who was 11 months old at the time, and her parents visited us from Belgium a few weeks ago I played the fiddle to her. The first time she had heard it, I believe. She was fascinated by the sound and wanted me to play some more when I put it away. In a few days time she’ll get more of my playing when we go over to Belgium for her birthday. Her mother plays the cello to her as well, and this usually starts her off banging away on a toy keyboard.
Trevor
# Posted on February 13th 2005 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Practising at home
I just taught mine to say "Up ya boy ya!" or "Pull, ya hoor!!" when they hear me practicing. My wife thinks it's part of their English as a second language training.
# Posted on February 14th 2005 by Gzeg
Re: Practising at home
Just wait till they hit 15 and want to play "Enter Sandman" in the basement with their buddies, at maximum decibels! Then you'll have the opportunity to go ballistic right back at 'em.
# Posted on February 14th 2005 by grego
Re: Practising at home
Give him a percussion instrument, and make him part of the action. With luck, he will outgrow the percussion thing, and not become a bodhran player. Ha ha ha.
But seriously, there is no age too young to start being involved in music.
AL Brown
# Posted on February 14th 2005 by AlBrown