Just read the paper about these new licensing laws that are coming in. ye know the ones - 24 hours & all that.But i also read that the new laws will also require any place that allows entertainment of any sort will require a doorperson.
So the question is -Will this have serious adverse consequences for sessions here?? I'm sure it will put a lot of places off having entertainment.
Apologies if this has been discussed before.
As usual the media tried to exaggerate the effect the change will have but our local paper in Reading reported that not a single pub, club or restaurant applied for an extension to their licensing hours in the first 24 hours of the new law. Mind you there are no decent sessions to ruin round here!!
I suspect that many establishments are waiting to see what others do. Most landlords don't want 24 hour opening.
I don't know about the door person part but most of the late night opening clubs and bars round here already have doorpersons - at least at weekends.
But as our binge drinking culture led to a brawl involving 200 people the other week, the police presence in Reading at night tends to be quite high!!
We have had more liberal licensing in Scotland for many years, especially in Edinburgh. Things haven't been perfect but there's probably less drunkeness of the "Murder Polis in the Gallowgate" variety. Of course, you'll still get fights, vandalism etc but I'm sure that's more down to the people involved rather than the availability of alcohol. Many of them are under age and they would get hold of it somewhere anyway.
These drinking hours have affected sessions too, of course. We're not as disciplined for a start. Instead of lunchtime session between 12.30 and 1500, we now start about half past three and go on until the "nightshift" arrives for their stint or even later. An evening session will not start until about 2100 at the earliest(gets going about 2200) and could go on until about 02.00. However, there's still plenty of music and it's very handy during festivals. On the other hand, I sometimes miss the "sense of urgency" in playing the music. You know, everybody arriving and playing together at the same time rather than in "dribs and drabs", though this can still happen.
Re doormen. They are, unfortunately, on the increase but most of them are quite harmless. Also, they are still less likely to be found in "folky" or non city centre pubs.
It could be good in some places. The problem in the UK (in my opinion of course) is not so much opening hours or happy hours but the fact that increasing numbers of pubs are now owned by chains and run by managers who have to maximise revenue by attracting young male volume drinkers, rather than by on-site owner/managers who have a care for their patrons.
I went to a very nice Sunday session in Melbourne last year which was supposed to finish at nine, but the pub (legally) stayed open as long as the punters were drinking so we kept going til 1.30am. Then the public bar was still open for those who needed to "wind down". The flexible drinking laws work very well in Melbourne, I think. Not so great if you're one of those who find it hard to leave a good session but have to work in the morning.
Hard to know how this will affect sessions. Can it be any worse than the 2 in a bar rule? Our sessions fell victim to that a while back. The landlords in question eventually thought it prudent to get licences anyway, as then they wouldn't have so long to wait in the queue as non-license-bearing premises. For full story, see this old thread:
The police in Leeds have said they will not be allowing 24 hour opening in Headingley as they do not have not the numbers to police it.
I would have hoped that the Prime Minister would have had second thoughts about 24 hour opening after his son Euans' pre-sixth-form escapade in Leicester Square.
It's surely not up to the Police or it shouldn't be! Of course, they can put in an objection on these grounds but the decision is that of the Licensing Board. Obviously, they will take such things into account but this could be argued anywhere. They could then use it an excuse to ban all demonstrations and football matches, although I wouldn't lose too much sleep over the latter.
I'm not sure where Euan got the drink but we've all done daft things like that. Youngsters are more likely get it from an off licence and I don't think extended hours would make any difference.
i'm not so sure about the doorperson thing, but the last time i checked the MU website (albeit a while back) the whole 'session' thing fell under the Musical Licensing, which was amended to exempt the playing of incedental live music (amplified or unamplified) in any place,(including those licensed for sale of alcohol) as long as its not advertised as featured entertainment.
granted this is a year old, and im not sure if this was the actual version passed, but i keep a scrap of paper with it on, just in case i run across any council 'fuddy-duddies' round here!
Briolin, maybe you could have asked him to stay for a few pints. That could be a useful ploy to pretend that there was an official in the pub when a bodhran player enters.
As far as my limited understanding of this law goes, they are not too bad as they give local residents the right to object if a pub in their area applies for the licence.So power to the people & all tha'...
I think policing it might be a concern.But as you say John j, you'll always get the louts anyway (& at all times)
I think drunks are actually easier to control if you let them keep boozing until the sun comes up. The ones that aren't passed out have already done their fighting and trouble-making before they wander out into the streets.
The session I went to in Belfast got around the doorman issue by locking the door, pulling the blinds, and trying to look closed from the outside. There was a bit of fistfighting in the back between about 3 and 3:30, but by the time we finally walked out into (surprise!) broad daylight you could actually *see* the drunkenness getting sucked out of us.
Tarrantella's experience in Reading is mirrored here in Bristol (a slightly larger village about 80 miles to the west); i.e. no interest in extensions being shown by the landlords, far too much binge drinking, late-night brawls are commonplace, especially at weekends, and the police are very busy. However, Bristol has at least 5 sessions that I know of, but these are unaffected by the binge-drinking culture. So I don’t expect to see any changes.
Trevor
I know of a pub in Oxford that doesn't have the "club" status so it has to close at 11...this doesn't work for the session so they just lock the doors, close the blinds and keep serving alcohol until the wee hours of the morning. All the pubs I like tend to close too early anyway.
New licensing laws for UK shock!!! horror!!!
New licensing laws for UK shock!!! horror!!!
Just read the paper about these new licensing laws that are coming in. ye know the ones - 24 hours & all that.But i also read that the new laws will also require any place that allows entertainment of any sort will require a doorperson.
So the question is -Will this have serious adverse consequences for sessions here?? I'm sure it will put a lot of places off having entertainment.
Apologies if this has been discussed before.
# Posted on February 9th 2005 by cunnla
Re: New licensing laws for UK shock!!! horror!!!
As usual the media tried to exaggerate the effect the change will have but our local paper in Reading reported that not a single pub, club or restaurant applied for an extension to their licensing hours in the first 24 hours of the new law. Mind you there are no decent sessions to ruin round here!!
I suspect that many establishments are waiting to see what others do. Most landlords don't want 24 hour opening.
I don't know about the door person part but most of the late night opening clubs and bars round here already have doorpersons - at least at weekends.
But as our binge drinking culture led to a brawl involving 200 people the other week, the police presence in Reading at night tends to be quite high!!
# Posted on February 9th 2005 by Tarrantella
Re: New licensing laws for UK shock!!! horror!!!
We have had more liberal licensing in Scotland for many years, especially in Edinburgh. Things haven't been perfect but there's probably less drunkeness of the "Murder Polis in the Gallowgate" variety. Of course, you'll still get fights, vandalism etc but I'm sure that's more down to the people involved rather than the availability of alcohol. Many of them are under age and they would get hold of it somewhere anyway.
These drinking hours have affected sessions too, of course. We're not as disciplined for a start. Instead of lunchtime session between 12.30 and 1500, we now start about half past three and go on until the "nightshift" arrives for their stint or even later. An evening session will not start until about 2100 at the earliest(gets going about 2200) and could go on until about 02.00. However, there's still plenty of music and it's very handy during festivals. On the other hand, I sometimes miss the "sense of urgency" in playing the music. You know, everybody arriving and playing together at the same time rather than in "dribs and drabs", though this can still happen.
Re doormen. They are, unfortunately, on the increase but most of them are quite harmless. Also, they are still less likely to be found in "folky" or non city centre pubs.
# Posted on February 9th 2005 by Johannes J
Re: New licensing laws for UK shock!!! horror!!!
It's only England & Wales isn't it?
It could be good in some places. The problem in the UK (in my opinion of course) is not so much opening hours or happy hours but the fact that increasing numbers of pubs are now owned by chains and run by managers who have to maximise revenue by attracting young male volume drinkers, rather than by on-site owner/managers who have a care for their patrons.
I went to a very nice Sunday session in Melbourne last year which was supposed to finish at nine, but the pub (legally) stayed open as long as the punters were drinking so we kept going til 1.30am. Then the public bar was still open for those who needed to "wind down". The flexible drinking laws work very well in Melbourne, I think. Not so great if you're one of those who find it hard to leave a good session but have to work in the morning.
# Posted on February 9th 2005 by Bren
Re: New licensing laws for UK shock!!! horror!!!
Entertainment? No worries then! :^)
# Posted on February 9th 2005 by RichardB
Re: New licensing laws for UK shock!!! horror!!!
Hard to know how this will affect sessions. Can it be any worse than the 2 in a bar rule? Our sessions fell victim to that a while back. The landlords in question eventually thought it prudent to get licences anyway, as then they wouldn't have so long to wait in the queue as non-license-bearing premises. For full story, see this old thread:
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display.php/1567/comments#comment26832
# Posted on February 9th 2005 by Alf Tupper
Re: New licensing laws for UK shock!!! horror!!!
The police in Leeds have said they will not be allowing 24 hour opening in Headingley as they do not have not the numbers to police it.
I would have hoped that the Prime Minister would have had second thoughts about 24 hour opening after his son Euans' pre-sixth-form escapade in Leicester Square.
# Posted on February 9th 2005 by geoffwright
Re: New licensing laws for UK shock!!! horror!!!
It's surely not up to the Police or it shouldn't be! Of course, they can put in an objection on these grounds but the decision is that of the Licensing Board. Obviously, they will take such things into account but this could be argued anywhere. They could then use it an excuse to ban all demonstrations and football matches, although I wouldn't lose too much sleep over the latter.
I'm not sure where Euan got the drink but we've all done daft things like that.
Youngsters are more likely get it from an off licence and I don't think extended hours would make any difference.
# Posted on February 9th 2005 by Johannes J
Re: New licensing laws for UK shock!!! horror!!!
i'm not so sure about the doorperson thing, but the last time i checked the MU website (albeit a while back) the whole 'session' thing fell under the Musical Licensing, which was amended to exempt the playing of incedental live music (amplified or unamplified) in any place,(including those licensed for sale of alcohol) as long as its not advertised as featured entertainment.
granted this is a year old, and im not sure if this was the actual version passed, but i keep a scrap of paper with it on, just in case i run across any council 'fuddy-duddies' round here!
# Posted on February 9th 2005 by aaron b
Re: New licensing laws for UK shock!!! horror!!!
Briolin, maybe you could have asked him to stay for a few pints.
That could be a useful ploy to pretend that there was an official in the pub when a bodhran player enters.
# Posted on February 9th 2005 by Johannes J
Re: New licensing laws for UK shock!!! horror!!!
As far as my limited understanding of this law goes, they are not too bad as they give local residents the right to object if a pub in their area applies for the licence.So power to the people & all tha'...
I think policing it might be a concern.But as you say John j, you'll always get the louts anyway (& at all times)
# Posted on February 9th 2005 by cunnla
Re: New licensing laws for UK shock!!! horror!!!
I think drunks are actually easier to control if you let them keep boozing until the sun comes up. The ones that aren't passed out have already done their fighting and trouble-making before they wander out into the streets.
The session I went to in Belfast got around the doorman issue by locking the door, pulling the blinds, and trying to look closed from the outside. There was a bit of fistfighting in the back between about 3 and 3:30, but by the time we finally walked out into (surprise!) broad daylight you could actually *see* the drunkenness getting sucked out of us.
# Posted on February 9th 2005 by Kerri Brown
Re: New licensing laws for UK shock!!! horror!!!
Tarrantella's experience in Reading is mirrored here in Bristol (a slightly larger village about 80 miles to the west); i.e. no interest in extensions being shown by the landlords, far too much binge drinking, late-night brawls are commonplace, especially at weekends, and the police are very busy. However, Bristol has at least 5 sessions that I know of, but these are unaffected by the binge-drinking culture. So I don’t expect to see any changes.
Trevor
# Posted on February 10th 2005 by lazyhound
Re: New licensing laws for UK shock!!! horror!!!
I know of a pub in Oxford that doesn't have the "club" status so it has to close at 11...this doesn't work for the session so they just lock the doors, close the blinds and keep serving alcohol until the wee hours of the morning. All the pubs I like tend to close too early anyway.
# Posted on February 11th 2005 by michael_coleman
Re: New licensing laws for UK shock!!! horror!!!
It's called the "lock in" - a wonderful old tradition. A pub in Bristol was like that as well.
Trevor
# Posted on February 12th 2005 by lazyhound
Re: New licensing laws for UK shock!!! horror!!!
I went to a session recently where the landlord had put "band rehearsal" posters up around the pub just in case!
# Posted on February 13th 2005 by Lizzy