..do you still have to learn them? I mean, there's this one tune ( that I'm not gonna name in case it's anyone's favorite) that I'm learning on whistle as an exercise in ornamentation. And I can respect the tune, and I will learn it cause I think I'll be better for it.
But I hate this tune! (I'm sorry, tune, I never ever liked you.) And even if I can play it well someday, I'm never gonna play this tune, that's how much I hate it. Does anyone else ever feel this way? I mean, if you don't learn a tune, you don't get into trouble from the tune police later on in life, do you?
I have a tune like that, although I wouldn't say I "hate" it. I really don't like it much though. I once played it and someone asked me to notate the version I played. I didn't (don't) like this person very much, so I think my dislike of the tune has come from disliking the person who liked the way I played the tune. Hmmmm.
Is it okay to say the name of the tune? I know many people like it because it gets played a lot. I don't mind the tune so much in G minor, but I haven't learned to play it in G minor so I just listen when I hear it in that key.
The odd thing about that, swearbox, is that sometimes it takes hearing the tune you think you hate being played by a really really good player, and suddenly you see it in a whole new light, and you love the tune (or at least don't hate it any more).
You almost never *have* to learn a tune (unless your teacher sets you to it). There's a million tunes out there. Learn one you like and do the same ornamentation exercise. Learn the first one again later when you can like it.
I guess hate is probably too strong a word. I mean, I'm willing to meet this tune halfway, but I don't think I'll ever really like it.
And it's so true, what John said, cause I also tend to associate tunes with people! I used to know this guy who I didn't care for, and he just loooooooved this one particular hornpipe, and I can never hear that tune the same way.
And you are right, Miss Zina, there is probably a recording of this tune out there somewhere that I would love, and then I'd be over my disdain. In fact, funny you say that, just yesterday I heard a setting of a tune I used to not like. Now I wanna learn it!
The Cooley's and Jackie Coleman's are the ones for me. They sounds so cheesy that I don't feel like learning them. But, I really respect some musicians who can turn those ugly tunes into attractive ones.
The Concertina reel has to be the most annoying tune that I have ever come across. I don't remember learning the bloody thing. but alas, I know how to play it all the same.
slainte, that quite funny, I rate Cooley's and Colemans as among my faworites.. Interesting
Only learn and play the tunes you like - there are thousands out there and life is too short to waste time on "also rans". I know some people contend that all music has the potential to sound great if played by a particularly talented individual in a certain way and this true to a point but some tunes in my opinion are beyond redemption. Has anybody tried all 1001 tunes in O'Neill's? You'll find that there's a large number that are very forgettable. But why pick on O'Neill's collection, the same applies to most recordings - I don't know how we' d survive without the "skip" function on CDs!! As regards "Tune Police" these are a breed who should be treated with the contempt they deserve - I don't care what anyone says the Kesh and Jerry's Beaver Hat are great jigs and do not cease to be just because some some session "boy racer" has just learned a few tracks off the latest Flook album.
I usually try to learn the tunes I'm not a big fan of (Concertina Reel, Old Joe's Favorite - to name two), but I have made it a mission of mine to never learn the Jig of Slurs...I can't stand that tune, and I have heard it played by some of the flute greats - but I still think it sounds like a muddy pile of gunk.
I'm not sure there's more of a holy disaster of a tune than Harvest Home, with it's moribund 2nd part hopelessly glued to A Major... but I suppose it pretty much plays the same role as the 1812 Overture, sans fireworks.. folks keep coming back to play/hear it, so play it we do.
I like tunes that are fun to play not tunes that just sound good I agree that the Concertina can be a very annoying tune but it is really fun to play that I why it is one of my favorites. Eric I know what you mean about the Jig of Slurs and it is so hard to play on GHBs. Harvest Home when it goes into A major I said screw A major and play it in D the whole way through because other wise it sounds horrible imagine if a pile on crap had a sound...
i know exactly what you mean right enough, I can think of a few that fall into the same category. Some that I've learned because others play them and some for the bowing exercises etc. I guess in a way the crap tunes that I dislike or like less make the other tunes seem better in a way, a sort of contrast I suppose. Over the course of time I've noticed that some tunes I used to really dislike, I now really like. I guess that your musical tastes, styles, likes and dislikes evolve to an extent over time.
I'm glad I asked for thoughts, and today I made the decision to NOT finish learning that tune! Yay! Life is too short to drink bad wine and learn tunes you don't like. So I started learning another. Much progress was made.
I suppose I was suffering from Catholic guilt, thinking I had to love all tunes. I'm over it now.
When contemplating this thread, I realized with surprise that I like all the tunes. Some more than others, but there are none that I really dislike. Some are more challenging than others, but I respect them more than hate them for that fact. And the Concertina Reel, while a bit dull to play on the whistle, turns out to be a great tune to play on the accordion when you are working your way up the musical food chain from airs, jigs, and polkas to the reels. From its name, I suspect it was written to be suited for instruments with buttons on them.
AL Brown
Seems to imply that reels are 'better' or 'harder' than polkas, jigs, etc.
I certainly dont see it as a hierarchical ordering more like a buffet with them all spread out on the table. I think there needs to be a balance between the tunes you play. Sessions in Belfast become boring because other than reels you hardly get any other form of music in at all. A bit like having the same meal every day - no matter how tasty the food you will soon become completely hacked off!!
Whereas down in Down we play marches, hornpipes, slides, polkas, barn dances, set dances, waltzes, mazurkas, flings, single slip and double jigs, airs, and a trip to Antrim will get you highlands, starthspeys, etc as well.
Brendan,
I walked right into that trap, didn't I. Upon rereading, my comments sound very elitist. I like the buffet image myself--and here in New England, there is indeed a wide variety of tune types available to the session-goer, as we borrow from Irish, Scottish, Quebequois, our own American and other forms. I did not deliberately intend any slur or malice towards easier tunes, or even types of tunes that tend to be more simple. The progression of tune types I described tends to be that taught to beginners by those around here who give lessons in traditional music, and is just a taste of what we experience when we jump into the world of sessions.
AL
But, at least at a very basic level - playing accurately "up to session speed" - reels do seem more difficult than jigs or polkas, and something the beginner needs to work up to.
Let's see - "Danny Boy," "When Irish Eyes are Smiling," and "Irish Washer Woman" as they are stereotypical tourist requests. But then someone's grandma shows up and makes the request. It is so nice someone in the group can respond with inspiration.
Reading the above, I see very few hated tunes have been named, and 2 that have are among my favourites (Cooley's & Jackie Coleman's, not forgetting Jackie coleman's #2, a great tune)
So don't be shy. If someone else starts, I'll reveal my all-time non-favourites!
There aren't many tunes that I really don't like. Mostly, it's versions or arrangements that I don't like. I've played Boys from Blue Hill for about thirty years and I still like the version I play, but the most common version annoys me. There are only about three notes different, but it makes it work for me.
The last time I played it in a session, I played through once and everybody else came in and played the annoying version. For me, it was like fingernails on a blackboard. I mean chalkboard. No, whiteboard. Hmmm, I need to update my similes.
Ok, Sharontheflute, I started this, so if everyone promises not to get offended......(I like Cooley's quite a lot too, and the Concertina Reel and the Jig of Slurs while we're at it)
Boys of Ballisodare
Off to California
Boys of Bluehill
There's a few more, but I'll have to think about it. Then there's others like The Kesh Jig, which I think is a good tune, but since it's the one everyone learns first, I have heard it enough.
If one may post at a slight tangent ... is that tolerated round here?
Can't say that I've come across any Irish tunes I actually hate, though there are plenty that don't grab me, but I agree with darinkelly - Harvest Home does nothing for me to a greater extent than most other tunes that do nothing for me.
But ... that tune in this context reminded me of a thing that's been said here before - sometimes it's a joy to play a tune you don't like and/or play with someone who (for whatever reason) isn't a strong player, just because of who that person is.
A few weeks back, after a gig but in a setting that was nothing to do with a session, my group and I were "shooting the breeze" with a truly lovely Irish man in his early seventies who I've been crossing paths with for years. I didn't know played, but when the conversation turned to Irish music, he picked up my violinist's instrument, said, "D'ye know Harvest Home?" and away he went. And nicely played it was, too. I suspect he hasn't played in front of anyone for years, and I think it was his way of having a quiet little wink with us girls after the crowd had gone. I truly wished I'd had my fiddle, and I'd have been delighted to play my least favourite tune with this person.
Now, when Him Indoors plays it on the cello, now that's a different matter ...
I have to admit it: I actually enjoy playing Harvest Home for the dancers -- you can really push the beat and I think it sounds great. That said, the only other time I seem to play it is while searching desperately to find tunes in common with players I don't know.
I used to really dislike The Starving Monster until i heard Frankie Gavin play it. Later still (last year) I heard Martin Hayes play a ripping fast version of it with John Doyle, and both of them totally took flight with it, and now I love the thing. I just wish I could play it half as well as either of those two.
OK I nominate The Trip to Durrow. Yes I know it's a good tune but I hate playing it. Also always disliked The Harvest Home unitl I started learning fiddle a couple of years ago and I can see the attraction for playing it on the fiddle.
Seems the tunes that most dislike are the really well-known ones that are always requested. Everyone plays them to be polite so they usually sound crap. Though sometimes one can be pleasantly surprised!
That's a great little anecdote Tish. Probably made that gentleman smile all week.
And Zina's starving monster tale reminds me of hearing Aly Bain play Off to California, which at once woke me up to what a great tune it is and shut down any hope I have of ever making it sound so good.
The trick to Trip to Durrow is to make it swing. Unhurried and jaunty. Then three times through is not enough.
The third part of Dingle Regatta sounds really silly, though I like the two-part version.
I have trouble with the B part of Byrne's Hornpipe. It sounds like the melody gets lost and is stumbling around randomly in the dark trying to find its way home.
I don't care for the A part of Hunter's House, but I'm not sure why. I like the B part just fine.
I can't get interested in Tell Her I Am. I think it should be called Where Am I? It seems very repetitive with no logical structure.
There are some of the usual suspects that I'm tired of, but that's very different from disliking them.
Ah, the Belfast. Another tune I've learned at least five times. A whistler friend makes it dance. But we played it once in a session with Ged Foley, and at the end, he winked and said, "I didn't realize people actually *played* that."
tunes you don't like...
tunes you don't like...
..do you still have to learn them? I mean, there's this one tune ( that I'm not gonna name in case it's anyone's favorite) that I'm learning on whistle as an exercise in ornamentation. And I can respect the tune, and I will learn it cause I think I'll be better for it.
But I hate this tune! (I'm sorry, tune, I never ever liked you.) And even if I can play it well someday, I'm never gonna play this tune, that's how much I hate it. Does anyone else ever feel this way? I mean, if you don't learn a tune, you don't get into trouble from the tune police later on in life, do you?
# Posted on February 5th 2005 by gladys
Re: tunes you don't like...
I have a tune like that, although I wouldn't say I "hate" it. I really don't like it much though. I once played it and someone asked me to notate the version I played. I didn't (don't) like this person very much, so I think my dislike of the tune has come from disliking the person who liked the way I played the tune. Hmmmm.
Is it okay to say the name of the tune? I know many people like it because it gets played a lot. I don't mind the tune so much in G minor, but I haven't learned to play it in G minor so I just listen when I hear it in that key.
But I know what you mean.
# Posted on February 5th 2005 by John Culhane
Re: tunes you don't like...
G minor let me guess the Wounded Hussar? Hmm I knoew some tunes that I am tired of.
# Posted on February 5th 2005 by Why Bother?
Re: tunes you don't like...
The odd thing about that, swearbox, is that sometimes it takes hearing the tune you think you hate being played by a really really good player, and suddenly you see it in a whole new light, and you love the tune (or at least don't hate it any more).
You almost never *have* to learn a tune (unless your teacher sets you to it). There's a million tunes out there. Learn one you like and do the same ornamentation exercise. Learn the first one again later when you can like it.
# Posted on February 5th 2005 by Zina Lee
Re: tunes you don't like...
I guess hate is probably too strong a word. I mean, I'm willing to meet this tune halfway, but I don't think I'll ever really like it.
And it's so true, what John said, cause I also tend to associate tunes with people! I used to know this guy who I didn't care for, and he just loooooooved this one particular hornpipe, and I can never hear that tune the same way.
And you are right, Miss Zina, there is probably a recording of this tune out there somewhere that I would love, and then I'd be over my disdain. In fact, funny you say that, just yesterday I heard a setting of a tune I used to not like. Now I wanna learn it!
# Posted on February 5th 2005 by gladys
Re: tunes you don't like...
The Cooley's and Jackie Coleman's are the ones for me. They sounds so cheesy that I don't feel like learning them. But, I really respect some musicians who can turn those ugly tunes into attractive ones.
# Posted on February 5th 2005 by slainte
Re: tunes you don't like...
The Concertina reel has to be the most annoying tune that I have ever come across. I don't remember learning the bloody thing. but alas, I know how to play it all the same.
slainte, that quite funny, I rate Cooley's and Colemans as among my faworites.. Interesting
# Posted on February 5th 2005 by compaqjohn
Re: tunes you don't like...
What an inspired and original choice of subject for a thread!!!
# Posted on February 5th 2005 by Johnny Jay
Re: tunes you don't like...
Only learn and play the tunes you like - there are thousands out there and life is too short to waste time on "also rans". I know some people contend that all music has the potential to sound great if played by a particularly talented individual in a certain way and this true to a point but some tunes in my opinion are beyond redemption. Has anybody tried all 1001 tunes in O'Neill's? You'll find that there's a large number that are very forgettable. But why pick on O'Neill's collection, the same applies to most recordings - I don't know how we' d survive without the "skip" function on CDs!! As regards "Tune Police" these are a breed who should be treated with the contempt they deserve - I don't care what anyone says the Kesh and Jerry's Beaver Hat are great jigs and do not cease to be just because some some session "boy racer" has just learned a few tracks off the latest Flook album.
# Posted on February 5th 2005 by Bannerman
Re: tunes you don't like...
I usually try to learn the tunes I'm not a big fan of (Concertina Reel, Old Joe's Favorite - to name two), but I have made it a mission of mine to never learn the Jig of Slurs...I can't stand that tune, and I have heard it played by some of the flute greats - but I still think it sounds like a muddy pile of gunk.
Eric
# Posted on February 5th 2005 by Jayhawk
Re: tunes you don't like...
The tunes I don't bother to learn are not always the tunes I don't want to hear in the session. Some tunes don't stick, you know.
# Posted on February 5th 2005 by slainte
Re: tunes you don't like...
I'm not sure there's more of a holy disaster of a tune than Harvest Home, with it's moribund 2nd part hopelessly glued to A Major... but I suppose it pretty much plays the same role as the 1812 Overture, sans fireworks.. folks keep coming back to play/hear it, so play it we do.
# Posted on February 5th 2005 by darinkelly
Re: tunes you don't like...
One thing worse than someone who plays your least fave tune - someone who plays it 6 times through.
Time to go to the bar!
# Posted on February 5th 2005 by geoffwright
Re: tunes you don't like...
I like tunes that are fun to play not tunes that just sound good I agree that the Concertina can be a very annoying tune but it is really fun to play that I why it is one of my favorites. Eric I know what you mean about the Jig of Slurs and it is so hard to play on GHBs. Harvest Home when it goes into A major I said screw A major and play it in D the whole way through because other wise it sounds horrible imagine if a pile on crap had a sound...
# Posted on February 5th 2005 by Why Bother?
Re: tunes you don't like...
i know exactly what you mean right enough, I can think of a few that fall into the same category. Some that I've learned because others play them and some for the bowing exercises etc. I guess in a way the crap tunes that I dislike or like less make the other tunes seem better in a way, a sort of contrast I suppose. Over the course of time I've noticed that some tunes I used to really dislike, I now really like. I guess that your musical tastes, styles, likes and dislikes evolve to an extent over time.
# Posted on February 5th 2005 by mikesuth
Re: tunes you don't like...
I hate them all - they stop me from eating, sleeping and working, and they make me burn the dinner.
# Posted on February 6th 2005 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: tunes you don't like...
I'm glad I asked for thoughts, and today I made the decision to NOT finish learning that tune! Yay! Life is too short to drink bad wine and learn tunes you don't like. So I started learning another. Much progress was made.
I suppose I was suffering from Catholic guilt, thinking I had to love all tunes. I'm over it now.
# Posted on February 6th 2005 by gladys
Re: tunes you don't like...
When contemplating this thread, I realized with surprise that I like all the tunes. Some more than others, but there are none that I really dislike. Some are more challenging than others, but I respect them more than hate them for that fact. And the Concertina Reel, while a bit dull to play on the whistle, turns out to be a great tune to play on the accordion when you are working your way up the musical food chain from airs, jigs, and polkas to the reels. From its name, I suspect it was written to be suited for instruments with buttons on them.
AL Brown
# Posted on February 7th 2005 by AlBrown
Re: tunes you don't like...
Al,
Working your way up the musical food chain??
Seems to imply that reels are 'better' or 'harder' than polkas, jigs, etc.
I certainly dont see it as a hierarchical ordering more like a buffet with them all spread out on the table. I think there needs to be a balance between the tunes you play. Sessions in Belfast become boring because other than reels you hardly get any other form of music in at all. A bit like having the same meal every day - no matter how tasty the food you will soon become completely hacked off!!
Whereas down in Down we play marches, hornpipes, slides, polkas, barn dances, set dances, waltzes, mazurkas, flings, single slip and double jigs, airs, and a trip to Antrim will get you highlands, starthspeys, etc as well.
# Posted on February 7th 2005 by breandan
Re: tunes you don't like...
Brendan,
I walked right into that trap, didn't I. Upon rereading, my comments sound very elitist. I like the buffet image myself--and here in New England, there is indeed a wide variety of tune types available to the session-goer, as we borrow from Irish, Scottish, Quebequois, our own American and other forms. I did not deliberately intend any slur or malice towards easier tunes, or even types of tunes that tend to be more simple. The progression of tune types I described tends to be that taught to beginners by those around here who give lessons in traditional music, and is just a taste of what we experience when we jump into the world of sessions.
AL
# Posted on February 7th 2005 by AlBrown
Re: tunes you don't like...
But, at least at a very basic level - playing accurately "up to session speed" - reels do seem more difficult than jigs or polkas, and something the beginner needs to work up to.
# Posted on February 7th 2005 by grego
Re: tunes you don't like...
Let's see - "Danny Boy," "When Irish Eyes are Smiling," and "Irish Washer Woman" as they are stereotypical tourist requests. But then someone's grandma shows up and makes the request. It is so nice someone in the group can respond with inspiration.
# Posted on February 9th 2005 by CeolCairdeas
Re: tunes you don't like...
Reading the above, I see very few hated tunes have been named, and 2 that have are among my favourites (Cooley's & Jackie Coleman's, not forgetting Jackie coleman's #2, a great tune)
So don't be shy. If someone else starts, I'll reveal my all-time non-favourites!
# Posted on February 9th 2005 by The Archivist
Re: tunes you don't like...
There aren't many tunes that I really don't like. Mostly, it's versions or arrangements that I don't like. I've played Boys from Blue Hill for about thirty years and I still like the version I play, but the most common version annoys me. There are only about three notes different, but it makes it work for me.
The last time I played it in a session, I played through once and everybody else came in and played the annoying version. For me, it was like fingernails on a blackboard. I mean chalkboard. No, whiteboard. Hmmm, I need to update my similes.
# Posted on February 9th 2005 by Bob himself
Re: tunes you don't like...
The tune I mentioned earlier but didn't name is The Star of Munster.
# Posted on February 10th 2005 by John Culhane
Re: tunes you don't like...
Ok, Sharontheflute, I started this, so if everyone promises not to get offended......(I like Cooley's quite a lot too, and the Concertina Reel and the Jig of Slurs while we're at it)
Boys of Ballisodare
Off to California
Boys of Bluehill
There's a few more, but I'll have to think about it. Then there's others like The Kesh Jig, which I think is a good tune, but since it's the one everyone learns first, I have heard it enough.
# Posted on February 10th 2005 by gladys
Re: tunes you don't like...
If one may post at a slight tangent ... is that tolerated round here?
Can't say that I've come across any Irish tunes I actually hate, though there are plenty that don't grab me, but I agree with darinkelly - Harvest Home does nothing for me to a greater extent than most other tunes that do nothing for me.
But ... that tune in this context reminded me of a thing that's been said here before - sometimes it's a joy to play a tune you don't like and/or play with someone who (for whatever reason) isn't a strong player, just because of who that person is.
A few weeks back, after a gig but in a setting that was nothing to do with a session, my group and I were "shooting the breeze" with a truly lovely Irish man in his early seventies who I've been crossing paths with for years. I didn't know played, but when the conversation turned to Irish music, he picked up my violinist's instrument, said, "D'ye know Harvest Home?" and away he went. And nicely played it was, too. I suspect he hasn't played in front of anyone for years, and I think it was his way of having a quiet little wink with us girls after the crowd had gone. I truly wished I'd had my fiddle, and I'd have been delighted to play my least favourite tune with this person.
Now, when Him Indoors plays it on the cello, now that's a different matter ...
# Posted on February 10th 2005 by Tish
Re: tunes you don't like...
I have to admit it: I actually enjoy playing Harvest Home for the dancers -- you can really push the beat and I think it sounds great. That said, the only other time I seem to play it is while searching desperately to find tunes in common with players I don't know.
I used to really dislike The Starving Monster until i heard Frankie Gavin play it. Later still (last year) I heard Martin Hayes play a ripping fast version of it with John Doyle, and both of them totally took flight with it, and now I love the thing. I just wish I could play it half as well as either of those two.
# Posted on February 10th 2005 by Zina Lee
Re: tunes you don't like...
OK I nominate The Trip to Durrow. Yes I know it's a good tune but I hate playing it. Also always disliked The Harvest Home unitl I started learning fiddle a couple of years ago and I can see the attraction for playing it on the fiddle.
Seems the tunes that most dislike are the really well-known ones that are always requested. Everyone plays them to be polite so they usually sound crap. Though sometimes one can be pleasantly surprised!
# Posted on February 11th 2005 by The Archivist
Re: tunes you don't like...
That's a great little anecdote Tish. Probably made that gentleman smile all week.
And Zina's starving monster tale reminds me of hearing Aly Bain play Off to California, which at once woke me up to what a great tune it is and shut down any hope I have of ever making it sound so good.
The trick to Trip to Durrow is to make it swing. Unhurried and jaunty. Then three times through is not enough.
# Posted on February 12th 2005 by Will Harmon
Re: tunes you don't like...
Sorry Will but even with a good swing, a little part of me dies if it goes onto a third time!
# Posted on February 14th 2005 by The Archivist
Re: tunes you don't like...
It's mostly parts of tunes that I don't like.
The third part of Dingle Regatta sounds really silly, though I like the two-part version.
I have trouble with the B part of Byrne's Hornpipe. It sounds like the melody gets lost and is stumbling around randomly in the dark trying to find its way home.
I don't care for the A part of Hunter's House, but I'm not sure why. I like the B part just fine.
I can't get interested in Tell Her I Am. I think it should be called Where Am I? It seems very repetitive with no logical structure.
There are some of the usual suspects that I'm tired of, but that's very different from disliking them.
# Posted on February 14th 2005 by GaryAMartin
Re: tunes you don't like...
My friend's other favourite tune, Will, is the Belfast Hornpipe, which I believe has also been known to produce groans at gatherings of ITM-ers.
But I'll brush it up and have it ready for next time ;-D
(I will also follow your advice, david a, ASAP.)
# Posted on February 14th 2005 by Tish
Re: tunes you don't like...
Ah, the Belfast. Another tune I've learned at least five times. A whistler friend makes it dance. But we played it once in a session with Ged Foley, and at the end, he winked and said, "I didn't realize people actually *played* that."
# Posted on February 14th 2005 by Will Harmon
Re: tunes you don't like...
Re: The Belfast
Try playing it in D minor for an interesting change
# Posted on February 26th 2005 by The Archivist