OK, here's one: has anyone ever been up the creek in a personal, emotional sense to the point where you just don't, or can't, play ITM in a session for a while? Maybe you have a broken heart, or other emotional trauma (self-induced or not--we're not assigning blame here), but you just can't face your instrument and/or your buds, or even yourself, and picking up an instrument is just...too..difficult. It's likely temporary, but it's real, and it's not quite like hopping back onto a bicycle after falling off. You just seem to lose your nerve, and you're just heartsick, and you hope it'll all come back some day.
Any thoughts? Comments? Derision? C'mon, bring it on...
Over the long haul, the music and the friends in the music are good solace, but sometimes life dishes out more than we can bear.
But I've also found great power in channeling despair into the music. The week after my Dad passed away, I dragged myself to a session not really intending to play, but then I got the fiddle out anyway and my playing had an emotional force beyond anything I'd done before.
I know what it feels like to have my confidence shaken, but there's also a real power to allowing your vulnerability to come through in the music. In due time.
Sure. The younger you are, the more sure you are that no one anywhere or anytime has ever suffered as much heartbreak as you are currently suffering and that no one else has therefore had to recover as much. When you're older, you do realize that heartbreak is endemic in this world and that you'll recover eventually, but you also have this sneaking suspicion that you now have less time left on the ol' clock, so sometimes the patience level and willingness to completely go through the cycle is lowered. (I'm using the "you" in the general sense, of course.)
Absolutely. Playing with others can become too much additional effort when you're toting a heavy emotional burden. But for me, that's when playing by myself becomes theraputic; tunes in a minor key get exercised pretty well.
Once upon a time that was true for me as well. Then I found out how much worse worse can really feel. Ignorance is bliss and my worst day of ignorance (which included losing a parent at a young age) was better than my best day of knowledge. Enjoy it while you can.
Self-pity and despair is indeed crippling. I try to move myself through those phases of grieving as quickly as possible, because it doesn't feel good to hang there, and doesn't serve others who have to deal with me well.
Strangly enough, I wouldn't have agreed with the question, but then I remembered the evening I had to have our old cat put down, and then go out and play for a St. Patricks' Night do.
St. Pats' dos are funny anyway, you can play ITM in a session till the cows come home and nobody cares what your accent is and where you come from, but on St Pats every first generation immigrant comes out of the woodwork and expects to be entertained in the happy style they think they remember from back home. ( This has been the subject of previous discussions, I believe ). And if you don't have a front person with the right accent you are dead, at least metaphorically.
And I wasn't even trying to be doomy, but my acapella version of The Curragh of Kildare was about the end for the organiser, who grabbed the mike from me and ordered us to back him on some happy numbers from the Furies albums.
I think it was the enforced jollity I couldn't deal with, I'd have been happy to play all night without it.
BTW, what you're describing there is called "depression" and if it's bad enough and endemic enough (ie: becomes something spread out through one's entire life and for longer than a couple of weeks) it becomes a crippling thing that can destroy more than just your mood. If someone who's severely and clinically depressed can get out of it themselves, even if by main force of will only, great, but if they can't, no harm in getting help.
Doing any kind of art MUST involve the emotions. Even writing has an internal rythym. And when the emotions are tied up in knots--we are humans, not machines--then making art is more difficult, although brilliance and passion can emerge.
Thank you all for sharing your stories. I'm not the only one, after all. Blessings to all, and endless nights of strong drink, stories, and tunes...
Some of the best tunes, folk songs and sean os songs in the Irish tradition were written at very turbulent and bloody times in Irish history and wrote by people who indeed were effected profoundly by this through grief, depression and dispair. I would say that emotional times can often inspire great works and even confine oneself to the solitude of learning an instrument in an attempt to deal with cruel real life situations.
High-strung,
The short answer is "yes".
I used to sing a lot. I don't sing much anymore, because while I was pregnant I sang to my son. When he was stillborn, I lost my voice. It was a decade before I could sing again, and in the almost five years since I regained it I've never sung any of the songs I used to sing to him. I don't expect to ever sing them again.
Ironically, it was a song (Don McLean's "Empty Chairs") that broke the blockage. And I do normally use music to cope with grief. After my very dear stepmother died of cancer, I played Da Slockit Light through about 25 times for her. It helped a lot.¡
Brian, that was a freakish cross-post! I wasn't thinking of yourself, but of the old Ronnie Drew song (Pete St John wrote it I think) about a parent, like fiddlemouse who never fully recovers from the death of a child.
Of corse. I think this might be that music is so personal. When you hear yourself play music its, (in my mind) sort of like listening to your soul. I know I sound really awful when Im in a bad mood, because my heart just isn;t in it. Good luck with whatever is ailing you.
I suffered through various degress of depression. At times, for me, it didn;t even feel like I loved music anymore. This shook me up alot, because I felt that I should be excited about music. I wasn';t however. The good news is when one does pull through, and find the light of day again, music is there for you still. and it becomes even more beautiful and more of a lover than it ever could have been before the spout of depression.
Been there-done that. I play several instruments, but usually get requests for bodhran to add bounce to the music to draw audiences. In any single session, you have a range of attitudes toward the bodhran. The pen knife school of thought has one rule: don't. The metronome school of thought is that you play a monotonous beat for others. Then there is the school of thought of trying your best to do exceptional percussion. I usually join a session indicating that I am fine with upfront feedback about not playing to specific tunes, playing lighter or going for it with the liveliest tunes. My experience is that if you have a dozen players you have a dozen opinions. People generally are not upfront. This leaves me taking shameless advantage of the establishment's offer of free stout trying to "read" the group.
This leaves me doing solo sessions to stretch as far as I can with percussion, and this (usually) refreshes me for regular sessions. The solo sessions are cheaper than therapy and my advice is finding your personal site in nature somewhere. Mine is under a lovely 300 year old oak tree by a river. I am currently jamming with a few hundred tree frogs at dusk. They keep rhythm!
Talk about weird cross posts! I didn't see Paul's post until tonight, actually 1am Monday, Tassie time!
So people don't get concerned about what might seem to be a Private Members' Bill, and hopefully to give Fiddlemouse some support, I thought I'd put my earlier comment in context.
Back in 1987 my baby son, Patrick, died of a cot death at 28 days. I couldn't, didn't play for 6 months, and there are still times like his birthday or Christmas, or moments when you think what it might be like to be doing something with your kid that you have it reinforced what happened...and sometimes even now the music halts for a while. I think that's called hitting the wall.
Thank you, Brian.
My experience is just the same. At the strangest times things will pop up, and wham you over the head. And of course at the most predictable times, too. And yes, for me too, even nearly fifteen years later, the music sometimes stops for a while. The wonderful part is that I've found music to listen to that will bring the music back for me. (Third act of Parsifal, in case you're wondering.)
Thank you, and Highstrung and Paul, for the support. I don't usually talk about it, and after I pressed send I thought "oh cr#p, why did I do that?" My best to you, and know I will think of you and your Patrick when my Sam comes to my mind.?
Can I reassure you that I too thought Oh sh#t when I pressed the send button. It took me a while to think about even writing it, but now that you have replied I believe that other readers might draw strength from these communications.
The moments don't always have to be special days either, do they?
Sometimes it can be at one of those brilliant "civilised" sessions/festivals where whole families attend, and just seeing everyone having a fantastic time can get the questions flying...others, just when you pick up your instrument or think of a certain song.
Likewise I'll always be able to remember Sam now at special moments.
I didn't lost a child. That's nuclear. Nevertheless, I'm still smarting over a disasterous interpersonal episode that I so badly fumbled, leaving angry people in its wake, destroying a good friendship, and plunging myself into despair to a level I've only read about in magazines and books. I have seldom felt so incompetent and idiotic, even momentarily suicidal. I hope the music will come back, but at the moment, it's not the source of solace and peace it used to be.
I hope it returns for me as it has for others. That's my wall.
It's always terrible to hear these things from people, though of course not nearly so terrible as to go through it yourself. One feels terribly awkward; you're aware that nothing you say can possibly make things any *better*, and you're desperately afraid that something you say might make it *worse*, and the thought of not saying *some*thing isn't to be borne.
I suppose the only thing to say is that I hope you know that there'll always be someone around to hear you talk about the missing part of your heart, always people willing to take as much of the burden as it is possible (not particularly, I'm sure) for you to share, and always people who will now be able to remember that your children once lived on the green earth.
Highstrung, as someone who's had her fair share of screwing up when it was important, you've my sympathy. It'll be back eventually, hang in there.
I know who you are and I know the other half of this interpersonal disaster you describe. Both of you are my friends. Although you changed your username and deleted your bio, your member information still lists the discussions that you started and I remember them because I talk to you every week.
It looks like you are asking the list for advice, but you *know* that the other person *also* visits this board and it seems stalker-like and manipulative for you to be airing your feelings so publicly here when there are other lists that deal with Irish traditional music that the other person doesn’t visit.
I apologize to the list for stepping in like this, but we here have already talked to High-strung privately at length about this, and he still chooses to make this public, so here it is.
For the record, this thread started off as a simple plaintive having to do with no one but me and what I've been feeling as the result of MY actions, words, and decisions, no one else's, and if anyone else who played music felt that way before, and what was the outcome. It was not meant to talk to, about, or towards anyone in particular, or any particular situation.
Thanks to all who shared their stories, particularly those who have suffered unimaginable losses. As a parent, my heart goes out in particular to those who have lost children. I grieve with you.
High-strung, pain is pain. Yours doesn't have to rate above a particular mark on a scale to be valid. Losing a friend, especially because of one's own actions, can be quite devastating. Hang in there. I hope the music returns to be a joy to you again, and soon.
Zina --- what you said is lovely. Thank you.
Hitting the Wall
Hitting the Wall
OK, here's one: has anyone ever been up the creek in a personal, emotional sense to the point where you just don't, or can't, play ITM in a session for a while? Maybe you have a broken heart, or other emotional trauma (self-induced or not--we're not assigning blame here), but you just can't face your instrument and/or your buds, or even yourself, and picking up an instrument is just...too..difficult. It's likely temporary, but it's real, and it's not quite like hopping back onto a bicycle after falling off. You just seem to lose your nerve, and you're just heartsick, and you hope it'll all come back some day.
Any thoughts? Comments? Derision? C'mon, bring it on...
# Posted on January 28th 2005 by Audeamus
Re: Hitting the Wall
Yes.
KFG
# Posted on January 28th 2005 by KFG
Re: Hitting the Wall
Been there. More than once.
Over the long haul, the music and the friends in the music are good solace, but sometimes life dishes out more than we can bear.
But I've also found great power in channeling despair into the music. The week after my Dad passed away, I dragged myself to a session not really intending to play, but then I got the fiddle out anyway and my playing had an emotional force beyond anything I'd done before.
I know what it feels like to have my confidence shaken, but there's also a real power to allowing your vulnerability to come through in the music. In due time.
# Posted on January 28th 2005 by Will Harmon
Re: Hitting the Wall
Sure. The younger you are, the more sure you are that no one anywhere or anytime has ever suffered as much heartbreak as you are currently suffering and that no one else has therefore had to recover as much. When you're older, you do realize that heartbreak is endemic in this world and that you'll recover eventually, but you also have this sneaking suspicion that you now have less time left on the ol' clock, so sometimes the patience level and willingness to completely go through the cycle is lowered. (I'm using the "you" in the general sense, of course.)
# Posted on January 28th 2005 by Zina Lee
Re: Hitting the Wall
The worse I feel the more I play.
# Posted on January 29th 2005 by Why Bother?
Re: Hitting the Wall
Absolutely. Playing with others can become too much additional effort when you're toting a heavy emotional burden. But for me, that's when playing by myself becomes theraputic; tunes in a minor key get exercised pretty well.
# Posted on January 29th 2005 by Char B
Re: Hitting the Wall
"The worse I feel the more I play."
Once upon a time that was true for me as well. Then I found out how much worse worse can really feel. Ignorance is bliss and my worst day of ignorance (which included losing a parent at a young age) was better than my best day of knowledge. Enjoy it while you can.
KFG
# Posted on January 29th 2005 by KFG
Re: Hitting the Wall
Self-pity and despair is indeed crippling. I try to move myself through those phases of grieving as quickly as possible, because it doesn't feel good to hang there, and doesn't serve others who have to deal with me well.
# Posted on January 29th 2005 by rainog
Re: Hitting the Wall
Strangly enough, I wouldn't have agreed with the question, but then I remembered the evening I had to have our old cat put down, and then go out and play for a St. Patricks' Night do.
St. Pats' dos are funny anyway, you can play ITM in a session till the cows come home and nobody cares what your accent is and where you come from, but on St Pats every first generation immigrant comes out of the woodwork and expects to be entertained in the happy style they think they remember from back home. ( This has been the subject of previous discussions, I believe ). And if you don't have a front person with the right accent you are dead, at least metaphorically.
And I wasn't even trying to be doomy, but my acapella version of The Curragh of Kildare was about the end for the organiser, who grabbed the mike from me and ordered us to back him on some happy numbers from the Furies albums.
I think it was the enforced jollity I couldn't deal with, I'd have been happy to play all night without it.
# Posted on January 29th 2005 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Hitting the Wall
BTW, what you're describing there is called "depression" and if it's bad enough and endemic enough (ie: becomes something spread out through one's entire life and for longer than a couple of weeks) it becomes a crippling thing that can destroy more than just your mood. If someone who's severely and clinically depressed can get out of it themselves, even if by main force of will only, great, but if they can't, no harm in getting help.
# Posted on January 29th 2005 by Zina Lee
Re: Hitting the Wall
Doing any kind of art MUST involve the emotions. Even writing has an internal rythym. And when the emotions are tied up in knots--we are humans, not machines--then making art is more difficult, although brilliance and passion can emerge.
Thank you all for sharing your stories. I'm not the only one, after all. Blessings to all, and endless nights of strong drink, stories, and tunes...
# Posted on January 29th 2005 by Audeamus
Re: Hitting the Wall
Some of the best tunes, folk songs and sean os songs in the Irish tradition were written at very turbulent and bloody times in Irish history and wrote by people who indeed were effected profoundly by this through grief, depression and dispair. I would say that emotional times can often inspire great works and even confine oneself to the solitude of learning an instrument in an attempt to deal with cruel real life situations.
# Posted on January 29th 2005 by compaqjohn
Re: Hitting the Wall
High-strung,
The short answer is "yes".
I used to sing a lot. I don't sing much anymore, because while I was pregnant I sang to my son. When he was stillborn, I lost my voice. It was a decade before I could sing again, and in the almost five years since I regained it I've never sung any of the songs I used to sing to him. I don't expect to ever sing them again.
Ironically, it was a song (Don McLean's "Empty Chairs") that broke the blockage. And I do normally use music to cope with grief. After my very dear stepmother died of cancer, I played Da Slockit Light through about 25 times for her. It helped a lot.¡
# Posted on January 29th 2005 by sara g
Re: Hitting the Wall
Yes!
Bx
# Posted on January 29th 2005 by briantheflute
Re: Hitting the Wall
"I haven't prayed in forty years, nor sung a happy song,
Since Brian went with innocence and the devil played along."
# Posted on January 29th 2005 by sergeant fox
Re: Hitting the Wall
Brian, that was a freakish cross-post! I wasn't thinking of yourself, but of the old Ronnie Drew song (Pete St John wrote it I think) about a parent, like fiddlemouse who never fully recovers from the death of a child.
# Posted on January 29th 2005 by sergeant fox
Re: Hitting the Wall
Fiddlemouse, that story really puts things in perspective. We all grieve for your loss, and rejoice in your recovery of your singing. Godspeed...
# Posted on January 29th 2005 by Audeamus
Re: Hitting the Wall
Of corse. I think this might be that music is so personal. When you hear yourself play music its, (in my mind) sort of like listening to your soul. I know I sound really awful when Im in a bad mood, because my heart just isn;t in it. Good luck with whatever is ailing you.
# Posted on January 29th 2005 by banana512
Re: Hitting the Wall
I suffered through various degress of depression. At times, for me, it didn;t even feel like I loved music anymore. This shook me up alot, because I felt that I should be excited about music. I wasn';t however. The good news is when one does pull through, and find the light of day again, music is there for you still. and it becomes even more beautiful and more of a lover than it ever could have been before the spout of depression.
# Posted on January 29th 2005 by banana512
Re: Hitting the Wall
Been there-done that. I play several instruments, but usually get requests for bodhran to add bounce to the music to draw audiences. In any single session, you have a range of attitudes toward the bodhran. The pen knife school of thought has one rule: don't. The metronome school of thought is that you play a monotonous beat for others. Then there is the school of thought of trying your best to do exceptional percussion. I usually join a session indicating that I am fine with upfront feedback about not playing to specific tunes, playing lighter or going for it with the liveliest tunes. My experience is that if you have a dozen players you have a dozen opinions. People generally are not upfront. This leaves me taking shameless advantage of the establishment's offer of free stout trying to "read" the group.
This leaves me doing solo sessions to stretch as far as I can with percussion, and this (usually) refreshes me for regular sessions. The solo sessions are cheaper than therapy and my advice is finding your personal site in nature somewhere. Mine is under a lovely 300 year old oak tree by a river. I am currently jamming with a few hundred tree frogs at dusk. They keep rhythm!
# Posted on January 29th 2005 by CeolCairdeas
Re: Hitting the Wall
Hi there!
Talk about weird cross posts! I didn't see Paul's post until tonight, actually 1am Monday, Tassie time!
So people don't get concerned about what might seem to be a Private Members' Bill, and hopefully to give Fiddlemouse some support, I thought I'd put my earlier comment in context.
Back in 1987 my baby son, Patrick, died of a cot death at 28 days. I couldn't, didn't play for 6 months, and there are still times like his birthday or Christmas, or moments when you think what it might be like to be doing something with your kid that you have it reinforced what happened...and sometimes even now the music halts for a while. I think that's called hitting the wall.
Love and peace to everyone,
Brianx
# Posted on January 30th 2005 by briantheflute
Re: Hitting the Wall
Thank you, Brian.
My experience is just the same. At the strangest times things will pop up, and wham you over the head. And of course at the most predictable times, too. And yes, for me too, even nearly fifteen years later, the music sometimes stops for a while. The wonderful part is that I've found music to listen to that will bring the music back for me. (Third act of Parsifal, in case you're wondering.)
Thank you, and Highstrung and Paul, for the support. I don't usually talk about it, and after I pressed send I thought "oh cr#p, why did I do that?" My best to you, and know I will think of you and your Patrick when my Sam comes to my mind.?
# Posted on January 31st 2005 by sara g
Re: Hitting the Wall
Thank you Sara!
Can I reassure you that I too thought Oh sh#t when I pressed the send button. It took me a while to think about even writing it, but now that you have replied I believe that other readers might draw strength from these communications.
The moments don't always have to be special days either, do they?
Sometimes it can be at one of those brilliant "civilised" sessions/festivals where whole families attend, and just seeing everyone having a fantastic time can get the questions flying...others, just when you pick up your instrument or think of a certain song.
Likewise I'll always be able to remember Sam now at special moments.
Brianx
# Posted on January 31st 2005 by briantheflute
Re: Hitting the Wall
Thank you, Brian.
*cyber-hug*ˇ
# Posted on January 31st 2005 by sara g
Re: Hitting the Wall
I didn't lost a child. That's nuclear. Nevertheless, I'm still smarting over a disasterous interpersonal episode that I so badly fumbled, leaving angry people in its wake, destroying a good friendship, and plunging myself into despair to a level I've only read about in magazines and books. I have seldom felt so incompetent and idiotic, even momentarily suicidal. I hope the music will come back, but at the moment, it's not the source of solace and peace it used to be.
I hope it returns for me as it has for others. That's my wall.
# Posted on January 31st 2005 by Audeamus
Re: Hitting the Wall
It's always terrible to hear these things from people, though of course not nearly so terrible as to go through it yourself. One feels terribly awkward; you're aware that nothing you say can possibly make things any *better*, and you're desperately afraid that something you say might make it *worse*, and the thought of not saying *some*thing isn't to be borne.
I suppose the only thing to say is that I hope you know that there'll always be someone around to hear you talk about the missing part of your heart, always people willing to take as much of the burden as it is possible (not particularly, I'm sure) for you to share, and always people who will now be able to remember that your children once lived on the green earth.
Highstrung, as someone who's had her fair share of screwing up when it was important, you've my sympathy. It'll be back eventually, hang in there.
Hugs to you all.
Zina
# Posted on February 1st 2005 by Zina Lee
Re: Hitting the Wall
High-strung,
I know who you are and I know the other half of this interpersonal disaster you describe. Both of you are my friends. Although you changed your username and deleted your bio, your member information still lists the discussions that you started and I remember them because I talk to you every week.
It looks like you are asking the list for advice, but you *know* that the other person *also* visits this board and it seems stalker-like and manipulative for you to be airing your feelings so publicly here when there are other lists that deal with Irish traditional music that the other person doesn’t visit.
I apologize to the list for stepping in like this, but we here have already talked to High-strung privately at length about this, and he still chooses to make this public, so here it is.
# Posted on February 1st 2005 by BrianFiddle
Re: Hitting the Wall
For the record, this thread started off as a simple plaintive having to do with no one but me and what I've been feeling as the result of MY actions, words, and decisions, no one else's, and if anyone else who played music felt that way before, and what was the outcome. It was not meant to talk to, about, or towards anyone in particular, or any particular situation.
Thanks to all who shared their stories, particularly those who have suffered unimaginable losses. As a parent, my heart goes out in particular to those who have lost children. I grieve with you.
# Posted on February 1st 2005 by Audeamus
Re: Hitting the Wall
High-strung, pain is pain. Yours doesn't have to rate above a particular mark on a scale to be valid. Losing a friend, especially because of one's own actions, can be quite devastating. Hang in there. I hope the music returns to be a joy to you again, and soon.
Zina --- what you said is lovely. Thank you.
# Posted on February 1st 2005 by sara g