OK this may sound like a stupid question, and maybe it is. And unlike some people in the world, I DO believe there is such a thing as a stupid question.
Anyways, this web site is called "the session" and I've been apart of this little group in cyber space long enough to know that people here like going to sessions and playing their favorite music. But how many people out there like the music but just dont like going to sessions and playing with others? Are some people just not cut out for playing in a group and do better playing solo? And how do you know?
Thoughts on this people?
Brad
PS, I may have put my foot in my mouth by saying " I've been apart of this little group in cyber space long enough to know".....
and not knowing that this has been talked about before.
Playing solo and playing in a session are apples and oranges--different approaches to the music. I like playing solo because you're free to do what you want and dig into the self-expression and interpretive aspects. It's especially good for slower playing, more lyrical stuff like what Martin Hayes does in some of his sets. And I like playing in sessions for the surprises other people bring to the music, and the tonal mix, and feeding off each others' energy. And the craic. Which is rarely as good when I play alone.
But how do you get free Guiness if you don't play in a session?
Hmmm...Good point there Q.
Will,
I like what you just said. And one of the reasons I like playing solo is the freedom of self-expression. To make the tune, mine so to speak ,and not play it like the group does.
Maybe, because I spend more time playing the music alone rather then in a group, I'm more comfortable playing solo.
Yes, the craic is one of the reasons I like sessions and it can be lots of fun. Hmmmm things to think about.
I wonder if the Guiness in Japan is as bad as it is here in SF.
Actually, I find the worst thing about coming back from Ireland is your first few pints of Guinness I have to endure. It's the after-taste that hits you like a load of bricks. It takes a couple of weeks or so to get used to it again. From what I understand; besides being brewed under license in either Nigeria or Canada, it has to be pasteurized and contains certain preservatives to legally be marketed in the U.S. (yuk) I find the canned Guinness to be better; it's brewed in Dublin, and there isn't nearly as much after-taste.
Excuse me please while I pour one (licks lips)
[sound of can opening and gas hissing]
(pours it into a pint glass) *glub glug glubble*
(lets it rest)
(drinks about a third of it) *glug glug glit) ahhhhhhhhh
And then of course there are those who prefer playing in a band. You get some of the advantages of the session, because it's still a group, but things are much more rehearsed and arrangements can be tighter. More disciplined I suppose. No, not disciplined, just more worked out before the time.
Well I dont play in sessions because i'm not yet good enough to go in and provide backing on guitar.I dont know enough tunes and i dont know enough about the music to play 'on the fly' as it were.
However i'm practising away and looking forward to the day when i will because i do most of my playing on my own so the chance to interact with other musicians in an informal atmosphere will be welcome.
Ani trec - One question, have you ever been at a "real" session?!!
One, where the musicians are all playing the same things - in tune - at the same pace - buzzing off each other.Pints are flowing - audience are into it. Theres the great communication between the 70 year old man on your left and the 12 year old girl on your right, and you just dont want it to stop.....
once you play in a proper session and feel the buzz you get, the only time youl want to practice is in preparation for the next session....are you near Osaka ? Iver a friend with a bar there that has weekly sessions...
Sessions are great but you've got to pick the right one for you. It's not always that easy! Stefan's example of the "seventy year old man on your left and the twelve year old girl on your right" is the best kind of session. "Communication and buzzing"-good words.
Sessions can be frustrating too, if you allow it. I went to one the other day where I knew about ten tunes all afternoon. That's a pretty poor do even for me. There were other really good musicians(I'm not including myself here) who didn't get that much of a tune either. Being a visitor, I didn't wish to push myself forward and wasn't invited to start a tune either. Anyway, I'm not complaining as I still enjoyed listening to the music on the periphery.
So, I can understand why some people aren't too keen on sessions. If you play solo or have your own band, then you at least know your repertoire. However, part of the enjoyment of going to sessions is to hear and perhaps learn(at a later time, if necessary ) new tunes though you like to play as well. Actually, I'm fairly lucky as there's a good variety of different sessions in Scotland in pubs and festivals so I'll find something to suit me most of the time. I can appreciate the problem if there's only the one session and the next one is several miles away.
Cunnla - how many tunes do you know? or believe you need to know?
Any session worth the name will welcome a newcomer who can play one tune. And it doesn't have to be played perfectly - a pretty good stab at just one tune by a newbie would raise a cheer of encouragement from any of the sessions I've been to.
If you wait till you're ready, you'll wait forever.
Cunnla, while I agree with Dave you'll still find that some sessions are more welcoming than others. If you are unfortunate enough to find one that's not too friendly, don't let that put you off. The chances are that you'll already know if it's friendly or not if you've been going along to listen. Then, there's no reason why you shouldn't give it a try. As Dave says, one tune is enough to get started.
It’s a bit like some classical violinists I’ve come across – they’ve had 7 or 8 years of private lessons and then join an orchestra. Boy, are they in for a nasty shock! The proper thing to do is to start playing in a beginner’s ensemble as soon as possible after starting lessons and take it on from there. I’d give similar advice to anyone who wanted to learn a foreign language. Exactly the same in sessions – as I said on another thread, listen and play, and then it will eventually come together.
Trevor
Brad - can you tell us something about sessions in Japan? What's the atmosphere? What's the demographics? How are they conducted?
I remember being in Japan and going to some "theme" clubs/bars and finding them very different from my previous experience - like the one jazz club in Tokyo (as usual on the 4th floor inside a buisness building and not on the street), where they had a DJ, standing behind a hip-hop-looking DJ steup and spinning 1960's bop jazz Amazing! You would never see anything like this in the US. This wasn't a one-night-stand either. He has a built-in rack with many thousands of LPs all around him.That's why I'm asking for you to bring us in on your experience over there.
I myself took the plunge into the session world a few months ago and I don't regret it for one moment.
Interesting point Inland Revenue, - ive always wanted to see if somebody would say this! But thank god- all sessions aren't like that...
Irish music is meant to be shared and meant to be fun...But there are always those that try and make themselves feel important....if one banjo player sees another coming in - they feel threatened...so the moods start off...etc...I hate that so much.
I remember going to sessions first and feeling this, but i always had contacts from the CCE so it wouldnt have been as bad.
For me though I go out of my way to welcome strangers and newbies, and always invite them to play a tune.
For me, The Session is where all this started form - when done right, its the most enjoyable purist form, of communication and comradary...
I'm sorry you receive that in sessions. ..its a shame.
Having said that, I hate it when Im in a good session, (as it was last tuesday - and we had a whistle and a bodhran player invite themselves in....play too loud, and when theyd finished the set I asked them to play, they spoke over the music in our sets...that was annoying.
What I'm saying here is, sometimes you can be in a great session, and out of nowhere other people come along - invite themselves in, and ruin it....
I feel alot of the clicky vibe is from this and understand it somewhat, but every one starts from somewhere and everyone needs encouragement and training.
I can understand, a bit of stern guidance, or constructive criticism, but when its just ignorance, as I have seen hapen to people I find it childish and disrespectful to the person involved , the music and to the tradition.
If the session off-enders are beginners, it might be instructive to them for everyone who recognizes the problem, stop playing, and let them flounder by themselves. Imagine if everyone stopped playing when a particularly bad bodhran player intruded, and if asked to explain hemselves, reply simply that they didn't feel they were needed, maybe even add that they thought he/she was doing fine by themselves.
Maybe that approach is a little harsh, but being a bodhran player that seldom finds a tune stimulating me to get my drum out and tighten it (after which it is too late) , I favor outlawing bodhrans unless the player is a professional , or at least a semi-pro. MTC's
Oh yeh, Guiness. Jack rightfully pointed out that the only Guiness worth having in the states is from a properly conditioned can (storage & temp). But in East Durham there is a bar, (several actually), that can serve a decent pint, and even one that taught me how to pour from the can.
Here is WV, in this University city, there are a couple dozen bars that serve Guiness draft,and not 1 in ten can do it right or even try. The worst serves it in a "fishbowl". And the objective is to chug it faster than the previous record holder. Gaggggh!
Can't wait to get back to Ennis this Spring to put a few pounds back on. I can taste it right now. And I haven't had a beer in three days. Man am I dry?
WB
I count myself lucky to have experienced some wonderful sessions. For the life of me, I cannot understand how anyone would dislike sessions in general. And I cannot understand the people that choose to play Irish traditional music in a band, and never play in a session.
I can understand disliking particular sessions. (I guess if your experience is limited to a particular session, then you might say that you dislike all sessions.)
I loooooooove playing in certain sessions and detest playing in others. I'll still go, but I'll hate every minute of it. ;^)
John, you're lucky to get a session where you only know 10 tunes. Imagine if, in the only session you could find, you knew Every. Single. Tune. Week after week after week. And they were not very good tunes to start with. And not particularly well played.
Or a session led by brilliant players with excellent tunes, but between you and the brilliant players there is a cacophonous mass of beginning or intermediate bodhrans, guitars, out of tune fiddles, and badly played whistles. Dozens of them. Most of them are just taking up space because they don't know the tunes, but some are periodically attempting to start the whole group off with "Harvest Home" or "King of the Fairies". (Also, the punters are so lively and the acoustics so bizarre that the brilliant music emanating from the core of the session can't be heard at all unless you are within a six inch radius of it.) Oh, and nobody seems to want to talk to anybody.
Or a great session where the seats are a bit low and the pub a bit crowded and the wobbly jackass standing behind you keeps spilling beer on your back.
At sessions like this, I take solace in the fact that I'm an alcoholic, because the best craic is always up at the bar anyway.
But then, of course, once in a while the fairies come out and one finds oneself transported, and all the nightmares suffered before seem like pennies to pay for gold bullion.
"Irish music is meant to be shared and meant to be fun"
Really?
Surely music played simply for yourself, in the comfort of your own home, field, cliff-top is just as valid as music to be shared. Like most people here, I love a few tunes with a few mates and all the drinking and banter and slagging and back-slapping and name-calling and winding-up and acting the lachako ... But sometimes I get as much or more of a kick out of playing a few tunes in the house on my own at my own pace in my own way for my own ears. I'll wager that there are far more players of the music who've never played in a session - or in any other public setting for that matter - than there are those who've decided to share their music. And that these private players have a variety of very good reasons for keeping their music private ...
I thoroughly enjoy a good session. But there are downsides to session playing. Anything more than 5 or 6 instruments and you end up playing under a wall of sound, which can encourage sloppy habits (not keeping your rolls and triplets clean, etc.). If this goes on every week, it's possible to develop a bland, lowest common denominator style out of sheer habit. I've heard session players who's tunes all sound alike. I think this is more likely to become a problem for people in the early stages of playing the music (particularly if they're trying to keep up with a pace they're not yet ready for)--later, you can always find ways to spice up your playing, even if the session is just droning along.
There's something to be said for playing solo or with just one or two other players, all listening closely to what each is doing. Some sessions are like that. But a band situation, or just you and your instrument tends to help focus on making every note count.
Cross posted with Aidan there, and I agree with him all the way. At times, I've gone a few years without sitting in at a session, and I thoroughly enjoyed playing every day just to get inside the tunes. This music has been played by lone musicians far longer than in sessions, and I think that's in part how it became such a personal music.
Kerri, I did say that I wasn't complaining as they were good musicians and I enjoyed listening on the periphery. I've been to the other situations you mentioned too and, I agree, they're not ideal either. Very occasionally, you'll get something that is perfect but the rest of the time we have to make the best of it. I still enjoy myself on most occasions.
Sessions can be the most frustrating places to play, for all the reasons mentioned above, but even in the direst (and many things can conspire to up the direness quotient), there's usually some crumb of interest or fun. And if there isn't, you can just pack up and go home, your not under contract.
I don't think I've ever walked out of a session (I've come close!), though
Aidan
I am in agreement with you there...
Some people do and are very entitled to keep their music private.....But I feel, the way ITM has survived is through the sharing and passing down of tradition, form, and tunes over the years.
Maybe I was a little hasty assuming Concertina (backwards!) hadn't been at a session before and that it is the b-All and end-all of music....I too enjoy practicing on my own - but love sharing the rewards with different players in a session afterwards...
I know what you mean - If one wants to keep it private - by all means they should. As usual with every discussion on every site, I think it boils down to....
"different strokes for different folks!!"
There was the one side of me thinking though - that the guy had had a bad experience at a session, and thats what could have been a contirbuting factor. I wouldn't have liked the thought if that were the case - you never know either.....
Well, in his profile, Brad says he plays at sessions, has started his own, and it seems he prefers them small rather than big and crowded. That seems pretty "normal" to me, and a big noisy Tokyo session might be enough to sour anyone on that particular experience.
Another aspect of this is that some people do not like being the center of attention (or just being in a situation where they can imagine that they're in the spotlight), and playing music in public, even at a session, can be scary or at least uncomfortable. But lots of people are able to work through this and end up playing at sessions with no worries--it may just take some time and repeated exposure to stretch your comfort zone.
Incidentally, I've heard some players say that they play better at home, alone, than they do when others are listening. And I've heard players say they play better when there's an audience or other musicians to egg them on. I've experienced both of these situations--you can get into the flow different ways and in totally different circumstances, and they are different experiences.
For me it's a bit like racewalking . I really enjoy long training walks; just me, the dust, the heat , and stuff whirling in my brain. But I usually do a few races every year just to give myself training goals; if I didn't, I would never progress and never work quite as hard as I should.
When I know I've got to teach a new tune or play with some folks, I have to freshen up the tunes I've let slide. I hate being left in the dust when someone drags out a tune I know but haven't played in a year or so.
I like lurking here and reading about other people going to sessions, but for playing (for me) nothing beats a couple of hours in the goat barn with the herd listening and chewing cud. Of course, sitting on the back porch does come a close second.
I might end up playing only one tune the whole time, and just love listening to the phrasing set up and settle in. I can see the appeal of playing a number of tunes with a number of folks, but the music's attraction real for me is in getting a tune, setting it, and then letting it ripen over the years.
being one of the younger end folk musos, when i first started playing irish, i played a lot on my own, as i wasnt old enough to get to sessions miles away on my own.
in a way, i wish i had, as the energy and feeling of a session would have probably spurred me on to get stuck into a lot more tunes, and hearing the tunes, helped me know them a lot better.
on the other hand, the opposite is true. i wonder if i had persevered if i'd gone to a session, knowing only a smattering of tunes, to be presented with a whole room of thriving energy, and wondering how id ever get the mastery of the instrument like some there.
i can see the appeal of playing solo- tunes in your own time, with the space to master them before going to a session, but credit where its due; the amount of inspiration coming from sitting in a room with some exceptional players and getting a buzz off it is something that keeps me wanting to go back time and again.
I myself have only recently begun going to sessions, i never could muster the courage to play in front of anybody else. jesus, if i heard somebody coming to my room while i was playing, my fiddle would be in its case so fast it would look like it had just vanished.
now im beginning to enjoy them though. although i still get sweaty hands when somebody asks me to start off!!
although it must be annoying for the more experienced player when young farts (like meself) come into a session and start off with a tune so often played its nearly clichéd, i find it gives everybody a chance to "show off" what they can do with tunes. i.e going off on a melodic tangent!!
but thats just me
Lots of good feed back on this one.
As Will mentioned about my profile, I've been to many sessions here in Tokyo big and small and just got one started at a pub not far from where I live.
Just last month at the same pub I had a chance to play with Pat O'Conner from County Clare. Great guy!.
I think the main reason for my dislike of sessions right now
( though I enjoy the music and the craic) is the language barrier I find here. Ive been in Japan a number of years, but I still find it hard to really enjoy the company of others because of the language difference. Maybe I should just pack up the family and move to another country that has good sessions and where everyone speaks English.
Oh, I can hear the wife now. Hahah!!
So its seems, not only am I learning how to play this music, but I have to learn a second language as well.
Maybe I should go to the top of a mountain and practice the Zen of Concertina playing, where the first five years you dont play a note, just practice squeezing the bellows in and out, in and out, in and out. : )
I have often described Afghani bagpipe music by saying they don't bother to kill the goat. They just stick a chanter in an orifice, tuck it under their arm, and squeeze. Tonal variation of the drone is achieved by choice of orifice.
Like Inland Revenue - I have felt all that unfriendly stuff. Well, maybe I'm a bit of a loner, and those that prefer it in the herd will always pick that up. Nobody' s fault, really.
Other problems for me are smoke (again!) and I don't really like being around a lot of very drunk people that much.
Musical reasons - everybody playing/nobody listening to anybody else; having to play a rather averaged out version of tunes; having to play tunes a la the latest "cool" CD; sessions being hijacked by types of music I didn't really come to the session to play.
I know not all sessions are like this! Mostly these days I stay away for the non musical reasons, thereby denying myself the good experiences that can also be had.
What would my ideal session be?
(1) Sitting down in a nice relaxing smoke free environment with one or two other musicians, playing tunes thoughtfully and taking time to listen to each others' different settings, instead of trying to find the quickest way to just whack through stuff together.
(2) That kind of session where everybody is on the same stylistic/regional/whatever wavelength anyway and just playing like they're possessed.
Jack said, he wonders if Guinness is as bad in Japan as it is in SF.
Dont know about that, but with the exchange rate, its about $9.00 for a pint. How much is a pint of the black stuff in SF??
Short history:
My indoctrination to the session came in the form of American Fife and Drum musters. I started playing fife with a corps 3 years ago, and quickly rose up the ranks to be Fife Sergeant today (basically first chair, or principal). My first F&D Muster was at Deep River, Connecticut (Northeast USA), at which there were over 70 fife and drum corps! After the parade and muster "stand piece", all who want to join for the Jam session, in which (and this is not hyperbole) upwards of 200 fifers and drummers are playing at once (roughly the same tune, roughly at the same tempo).
Some comments, similar to what has been said already: Yes, there are the beginners who only know "Yankee Doodle" or "Battle Hymn of the Republic". It is only right to give them their chance to play along -- at their tempo. We have our "standards" as well, just like ITM sessions, however, there seem to be fewer variations in this genre. The one thing that drives me absolutely wild is that they tend to be so painfully fast (tempo) as to be unmusical! I've only been to a couple of ITM sessions so far, so this is really a newbie question, but has anyone else noticed that as well? I mean it's great that *you* can play it that fast, but is it really necessary? Last week, I got stuck "leading" (if you can call it that) a session, since I was one of 3 people who showed up (normal leaders were kept away by a snowstorm), and even I found that I was playing faster than I really could -- coulda been the bodran player driving me, though.
Anywho, I don't know what my point is here, just that I can see how a session can be a downer, or intimidating, or just plain annoying. Just so long as the Guinness is flowing, I think I'll still show up.
Oh and one more thing -- I too *really* like playing alone, It's where I really work out the bugs, teach my fingers what they're supposed to be doing, learn new tunes, play along with my CD's, work on ornamentation ...
Thanks for the encouragement Showaddy & John J.What holds me back is the problem with back-up ( a discussion we've had plenty times before i know) where if there are other backers you need to be on the ball & know what theyre up to & also the fact that it's easier to mess something up with a mis-placed guitar chord than a wrong flute note.With that in mind i got myself a mando recently & am learning the tunes.At the moment ive got a pretty limited reportoire.
All the same i love the idea of back-up more than anything but dont want to be one of the intermediate cacophonous guitar-players that Kerri's describing above.I'd just like to get things right before i inflict my particular brand of cacophony on anyone else.
Imported beer is always different than the stuff where it is originally brewed. And rheinheitsgebot does't apply in the land of the Brave and Free.
A good session is transcendent, timeless, delightfully complex like a nice wine, and slightly wild. The problem with sessions, however, is people. That fact that session people are musicians makes it worse.
Musicians can be wonderful, charming people. But we're all broken and imperfect, and we often bring our emotional stuff to sessions. I do. I probably shouldn't, but I do. Playing music is an emotional release, and emotion is critical to good music. After all, we're expressing the inexpressible by playing notes. Yeah, good craic, flirting, a bit of "lovely tune/playing!" goes a long way, but it's still people.
Some sessions work really well with the particular mix of people. Some don't. Some change week to week, and some go on for years. Sometimes you slog others, mercifully or not, and sometimes you're the goat. Sometimes you make horrible mistakes and say things that fold up good friendships like an aluminum can under a car tire. Sometimes you fall in love. Sometimes, good bands come together from lovely sessions, and sometimes, people are unmercifully driven off into the night for the sins of playing strange instruments badly.
In the end, they're voluntary associations of like-minded individuals. Sometimes, it's bloody lovely, and sometimes, it's merely bloody. Wisdom, tact, and forgiveness always works, along with a good sense of humor.
I'm not generally wonderful and charming myself--and, with the exception of my family, most of my friends and enemies would agree-- but I do like broccoli, but w/o the Hollandaise.
Brad, are there no english speaking gaijin left in Tokyo with which to session? When I lived there in '90-'91, I guess the sessions were a release, a home-coming for me. A place to recharge my batteries, play my music with the like minded, and then go back into the strange and wonderful world of Tokyo. That's not to say that there were no Japanese present, but there were a core of gaijin with which to talk. A few of them were married to Japanese women and may still be there. I wonder.
Brad, instead of practicing the Zen of concertina-playing you might want to find a good teacher of Japanese. It's a difficult language to learn to read, but fairly easy to learn to speak. I'm not terribly brilliant at languages but I was able to become reasonably fluent in 9 months in a non-immersion situation. I'd be willing to bet you'd enjoy the sessions more if you could slag --- er, chat with your fellow players in their own tongue. ;)
Dislike Sessions??
Dislike Sessions??
OK this may sound like a stupid question, and maybe it is. And unlike some people in the world, I DO believe there is such a thing as a stupid question.
Anyways, this web site is called "the session" and I've been apart of this little group in cyber space long enough to know that people here like going to sessions and playing their favorite music. But how many people out there like the music but just dont like going to sessions and playing with others? Are some people just not cut out for playing in a group and do better playing solo? And how do you know?
Thoughts on this people?
Brad
PS, I may have put my foot in my mouth by saying " I've been apart of this little group in cyber space long enough to know".....
and not knowing that this has been talked about before.
# Posted on January 25th 2005 by Ani Trec-Noc
Re: Dislike Sessions??
"And how do you know?"
How do you know whether or not you like broccoli?
KFG
# Posted on January 25th 2005 by KFG
Re: Dislike Sessions??
Playing solo and playing in a session are apples and oranges--different approaches to the music. I like playing solo because you're free to do what you want and dig into the self-expression and interpretive aspects. It's especially good for slower playing, more lyrical stuff like what Martin Hayes does in some of his sets. And I like playing in sessions for the surprises other people bring to the music, and the tonal mix, and feeding off each others' energy. And the craic. Which is rarely as good when I play alone.
# Posted on January 25th 2005 by Will CPT
Re: Dislike Sessions??
But how do you get free Guinness if you don't play in a session?
*boggle*
# Posted on January 25th 2005 by Q
Re: Dislike Sessions??
But how do you get free Guiness if you don't play in a session?
Hmmm...Good point there Q.
Will,
I like what you just said. And one of the reasons I like playing solo is the freedom of self-expression. To make the tune, mine so to speak ,and not play it like the group does.
Maybe, because I spend more time playing the music alone rather then in a group, I'm more comfortable playing solo.
Yes, the craic is one of the reasons I like sessions and it can be lots of fun. Hmmmm things to think about.
Brad
# Posted on January 25th 2005 by Ani Trec-Noc
Re: Dislike Sessions??
I wonder if the Guiness in Japan is as bad as it is here in SF.
Actually, I find the worst thing about coming back from Ireland is your first few pints of Guinness I have to endure. It's the after-taste that hits you like a load of bricks. It takes a couple of weeks or so to get used to it again. From what I understand; besides being brewed under license in either Nigeria or Canada, it has to be pasteurized and contains certain preservatives to legally be marketed in the U.S. (yuk) I find the canned Guinness to be better; it's brewed in Dublin, and there isn't nearly as much after-taste.
Excuse me please while I pour one (licks lips)
[sound of can opening and gas hissing]
(pours it into a pint glass) *glub glug glubble*
(lets it rest)
(drinks about a third of it) *glug glug glit) ahhhhhhhhh
# Posted on January 25th 2005 by Phantom Button
Re: Dislike Sessions??
**steals the rest**
Ahh, preciousssssssssss...
# Posted on January 25th 2005 by Pádraig
Re: Dislike Sessions??
And then of course there are those who prefer playing in a band. You get some of the advantages of the session, because it's still a group, but things are much more rehearsed and arrangements can be tighter. More disciplined I suppose. No, not disciplined, just more worked out before the time.
# Posted on January 25th 2005 by Shrog
Re: Dislike Sessions??
Well I dont play in sessions because i'm not yet good enough to go in and provide backing on guitar.I dont know enough tunes and i dont know enough about the music to play 'on the fly' as it were.
However i'm practising away and looking forward to the day when i will because i do most of my playing on my own so the chance to interact with other musicians in an informal atmosphere will be welcome.
# Posted on January 25th 2005 by cunnla
Re: Dislike Sessions??
Ani trec - One question, have you ever been at a "real" session?!!
One, where the musicians are all playing the same things - in tune - at the same pace - buzzing off each other.Pints are flowing - audience are into it. Theres the great communication between the 70 year old man on your left and the 12 year old girl on your right, and you just dont want it to stop.....
once you play in a proper session and feel the buzz you get, the only time youl want to practice is in preparation for the next session....are you near Osaka ? Iver a friend with a bar there that has weekly sessions...
# Posted on January 25th 2005 by Hugo Chavez
Re: Dislike Sessions??
Sessions are great but you've got to pick the right one for you. It's not always that easy! Stefan's example of the "seventy year old man on your left and the twelve year old girl on your right" is the best kind of session. "Communication and buzzing"-good words.
Sessions can be frustrating too, if you allow it. I went to one the other day where I knew about ten tunes all afternoon. That's a pretty poor do even for me.
There were other really good musicians(I'm not including myself here) who didn't get that much of a tune either. Being a visitor, I didn't wish to push myself forward and wasn't invited to start a tune either. Anyway, I'm not complaining as I still enjoyed listening to the music on the periphery.
So, I can understand why some people aren't too keen on sessions. If you play solo or have your own band, then you at least know your repertoire. However, part of the enjoyment of going to sessions is to hear and perhaps learn(at a later time, if necessary
) new tunes though you like to play as well. Actually, I'm fairly lucky as there's a good variety of different sessions in Scotland in pubs and festivals so I'll find something to suit me most of the time. I can appreciate the problem if there's only the one session and the next one is several miles away.
# Posted on January 25th 2005 by Johannes J
Re: Dislike Sessions??
Cunnla - how many tunes do you know? or believe you need to know?
Any session worth the name will welcome a newcomer who can play one tune. And it doesn't have to be played perfectly - a pretty good stab at just one tune by a newbie would raise a cheer of encouragement from any of the sessions I've been to.
If you wait till you're ready, you'll wait forever.
# Posted on January 25th 2005 by showaddydadito
Re: Dislike Sessions??
Cunnla, while I agree with Dave you'll still find that some sessions are more welcoming than others. If you are unfortunate enough to find one that's not too friendly, don't let that put you off. The chances are that you'll already know if it's friendly or not if you've been going along to listen. Then, there's no reason why you shouldn't give it a try. As Dave says, one tune is enough to get started.
# Posted on January 25th 2005 by Johannes J
Re: Dislike Sessions??
It’s a bit like some classical violinists I’ve come across – they’ve had 7 or 8 years of private lessons and then join an orchestra. Boy, are they in for a nasty shock! The proper thing to do is to start playing in a beginner’s ensemble as soon as possible after starting lessons and take it on from there. I’d give similar advice to anyone who wanted to learn a foreign language. Exactly the same in sessions – as I said on another thread, listen and play, and then it will eventually come together.
Trevor
# Posted on January 25th 2005 by lazyhound
Re: Dislike Sessions??
Brad - can you tell us something about sessions in Japan? What's the atmosphere? What's the demographics? How are they conducted?
I remember being in Japan and going to some "theme" clubs/bars and finding them very different from my previous experience - like the one jazz club in Tokyo (as usual on the 4th floor inside a buisness building and not on the street), where they had a DJ, standing behind a hip-hop-looking DJ steup and spinning 1960's bop jazz
Amazing! You would never see anything like this in the US. This wasn't a one-night-stand either. He has a built-in rack with many thousands of LPs all around him.That's why I'm asking for you to bring us in on your experience over there.
I myself took the plunge into the session world a few months ago and I don't regret it for one moment.
Go for it!
Avi
# Posted on January 25th 2005 by improziv
Re: Dislike Sessions??
". . .once you play in a proper session and feel the buzz you get. . . "
The whole point of his question was to find out if everybody gets that buzz.
The answer is no. We're not all cut out the same.
Think about it, some people get that buzz jumping out of an airplane, some from doing needlepoint and some from going into a firefight.
Would trade a session for a firefight? There are those who would.
If you get the buzz from a session, that's fine, but it's also fine if others don't.
KFG
# Posted on January 25th 2005 by KFG
Re: Dislike Sessions??
Interesting point Inland Revenue, - ive always wanted to see if somebody would say this! But thank god- all sessions aren't like that...
Irish music is meant to be shared and meant to be fun...But there are always those that try and make themselves feel important....if one banjo player sees another coming in - they feel threatened...so the moods start off...etc...I hate that so much.
I remember going to sessions first and feeling this, but i always had contacts from the CCE so it wouldnt have been as bad.
For me though I go out of my way to welcome strangers and newbies, and always invite them to play a tune.
For me, The Session is where all this started form - when done right, its the most enjoyable purist form, of communication and comradary...
I'm sorry you receive that in sessions. ..its a shame.
Having said that, I hate it when Im in a good session, (as it was last tuesday - and we had a whistle and a bodhran player invite themselves in....play too loud, and when theyd finished the set I asked them to play, they spoke over the music in our sets...that was annoying.
What I'm saying here is, sometimes you can be in a great session, and out of nowhere other people come along - invite themselves in, and ruin it....
I feel alot of the clicky vibe is from this and understand it somewhat, but every one starts from somewhere and everyone needs encouragement and training.
I can understand, a bit of stern guidance, or constructive criticism, but when its just ignorance, as I have seen hapen to people I find it childish and disrespectful to the person involved , the music and to the tradition.
# Posted on January 25th 2005 by Hugo Chavez
Re: Dislike Sessions??
If the session off-enders are beginners, it might be instructive to them for everyone who recognizes the problem, stop playing, and let them flounder by themselves. Imagine if everyone stopped playing when a particularly bad bodhran player intruded, and if asked to explain hemselves, reply simply that they didn't feel they were needed, maybe even add that they thought he/she was doing fine by themselves.
Maybe that approach is a little harsh, but being a bodhran player that seldom finds a tune stimulating me to get my drum out and tighten it (after which it is too late) , I favor outlawing bodhrans unless the player is a professional , or at least a semi-pro. MTC's
Oh yeh, Guiness. Jack rightfully pointed out that the only Guiness worth having in the states is from a properly conditioned can (storage & temp). But in East Durham there is a bar, (several actually), that can serve a decent pint, and even one that taught me how to pour from the can.
Here is WV, in this University city, there are a couple dozen bars that serve Guiness draft,and not 1 in ten can do it right or even try. The worst serves it in a "fishbowl". And the objective is to chug it faster than the previous record holder. Gaggggh!
Can't wait to get back to Ennis this Spring to put a few pounds back on. I can taste it right now. And I haven't had a beer in three days. Man am I dry?
WB
# Posted on January 25th 2005 by windybaer
Re: Dislike Sessions??
I count myself lucky to have experienced some wonderful sessions. For the life of me, I cannot understand how anyone would dislike sessions in general. And I cannot understand the people that choose to play Irish traditional music in a band, and never play in a session.
I can understand disliking particular sessions. (I guess if your experience is limited to a particular session, then you might say that you dislike all sessions.)
# Posted on January 25th 2005 by Jode
Re: Dislike Sessions??
I loooooooove playing in certain sessions and detest playing in others. I'll still go, but I'll hate every minute of it. ;^)
John, you're lucky to get a session where you only know 10 tunes. Imagine if, in the only session you could find, you knew Every. Single. Tune. Week after week after week. And they were not very good tunes to start with. And not particularly well played.
Or a session led by brilliant players with excellent tunes, but between you and the brilliant players there is a cacophonous mass of beginning or intermediate bodhrans, guitars, out of tune fiddles, and badly played whistles. Dozens of them. Most of them are just taking up space because they don't know the tunes, but some are periodically attempting to start the whole group off with "Harvest Home" or "King of the Fairies". (Also, the punters are so lively and the acoustics so bizarre that the brilliant music emanating from the core of the session can't be heard at all unless you are within a six inch radius of it.) Oh, and nobody seems to want to talk to anybody.
Or a great session where the seats are a bit low and the pub a bit crowded and the wobbly jackass standing behind you keeps spilling beer on your back.
At sessions like this, I take solace in the fact that I'm an alcoholic, because the best craic is always up at the bar anyway.
But then, of course, once in a while the fairies come out and one finds oneself transported, and all the nightmares suffered before seem like pennies to pay for gold bullion.
# Posted on January 25th 2005 by Kerri Brown
Re: Dislike Sessions??
Stefan
"Irish music is meant to be shared and meant to be fun"
Really?
Surely music played simply for yourself, in the comfort of your own home, field, cliff-top is just as valid as music to be shared. Like most people here, I love a few tunes with a few mates and all the drinking and banter and slagging and back-slapping and name-calling and winding-up and acting the lachako ... But sometimes I get as much or more of a kick out of playing a few tunes in the house on my own at my own pace in my own way for my own ears. I'll wager that there are far more players of the music who've never played in a session - or in any other public setting for that matter - than there are those who've decided to share their music. And that these private players have a variety of very good reasons for keeping their music private ...
# Posted on January 25th 2005 by Aidan Crossey
Re: Dislike Sessions??
I thoroughly enjoy a good session. But there are downsides to session playing. Anything more than 5 or 6 instruments and you end up playing under a wall of sound, which can encourage sloppy habits (not keeping your rolls and triplets clean, etc.). If this goes on every week, it's possible to develop a bland, lowest common denominator style out of sheer habit. I've heard session players who's tunes all sound alike. I think this is more likely to become a problem for people in the early stages of playing the music (particularly if they're trying to keep up with a pace they're not yet ready for)--later, you can always find ways to spice up your playing, even if the session is just droning along.
There's something to be said for playing solo or with just one or two other players, all listening closely to what each is doing. Some sessions are like that. But a band situation, or just you and your instrument tends to help focus on making every note count.
# Posted on January 25th 2005 by Will CPT
Re: Dislike Sessions??
Cross posted with Aidan there, and I agree with him all the way. At times, I've gone a few years without sitting in at a session, and I thoroughly enjoyed playing every day just to get inside the tunes. This music has been played by lone musicians far longer than in sessions, and I think that's in part how it became such a personal music.
# Posted on January 25th 2005 by Will CPT
Re: Dislike Sessions??
Kerri, I did say that I wasn't complaining as they were good musicians and I enjoyed listening on the periphery. I've been to the other situations you mentioned too and, I agree, they're not ideal either. Very occasionally, you'll get something that is perfect but the rest of the time we have to make the best of it. I still enjoy myself on most occasions.
# Posted on January 25th 2005 by Johannes J
Re: Dislike Sessions??
Sessions can be the most frustrating places to play, for all the reasons mentioned above, but even in the direst (and many things can conspire to up the direness quotient), there's usually some crumb of interest or fun. And if there isn't, you can just pack up and go home, your not under contract.
I don't think I've ever walked out of a session (I've come close!), though
# Posted on January 25th 2005 by Ottery
Re: Dislike Sessions??
Aidan
I am in agreement with you there...
Some people do and are very entitled to keep their music private.....But I feel, the way ITM has survived is through the sharing and passing down of tradition, form, and tunes over the years.
Maybe I was a little hasty assuming Concertina (backwards!) hadn't been at a session before and that it is the b-All and end-all of music....I too enjoy practicing on my own - but love sharing the rewards with different players in a session afterwards...
I know what you mean - If one wants to keep it private - by all means they should. As usual with every discussion on every site, I think it boils down to....
"different strokes for different folks!!"
There was the one side of me thinking though - that the guy had had a bad experience at a session, and thats what could have been a contirbuting factor. I wouldn't have liked the thought if that were the case - you never know either.....
# Posted on January 25th 2005 by Hugo Chavez
Re: Dislike Sessions??
Well, in his profile, Brad says he plays at sessions, has started his own, and it seems he prefers them small rather than big and crowded. That seems pretty "normal" to me, and a big noisy Tokyo session might be enough to sour anyone on that particular experience.
Another aspect of this is that some people do not like being the center of attention (or just being in a situation where they can imagine that they're in the spotlight), and playing music in public, even at a session, can be scary or at least uncomfortable. But lots of people are able to work through this and end up playing at sessions with no worries--it may just take some time and repeated exposure to stretch your comfort zone.
Incidentally, I've heard some players say that they play better at home, alone, than they do when others are listening. And I've heard players say they play better when there's an audience or other musicians to egg them on. I've experienced both of these situations--you can get into the flow different ways and in totally different circumstances, and they are different experiences.
# Posted on January 25th 2005 by Will CPT
Re: Dislike Sessions??
For me it's a bit like racewalking . I really enjoy long training walks; just me, the dust, the heat , and stuff whirling in my brain. But I usually do a few races every year just to give myself training goals; if I didn't, I would never progress and never work quite as hard as I should.
When I know I've got to teach a new tune or play with some folks, I have to freshen up the tunes I've let slide. I hate being left in the dust when someone drags out a tune I know but haven't played in a year or so.
# Posted on January 25th 2005 by Batlady
Re: Dislike Sessions??
I like lurking here and reading about other people going to sessions, but for playing (for me) nothing beats a couple of hours in the goat barn with the herd listening and chewing cud. Of course, sitting on the back porch does come a close second.
I might end up playing only one tune the whole time, and just love listening to the phrasing set up and settle in. I can see the appeal of playing a number of tunes with a number of folks, but the music's attraction real for me is in getting a tune, setting it, and then letting it ripen over the years.
Back to lurk mode.
Lynda
# Posted on January 25th 2005 by lgslgs
Re: Dislike Sessions??
being one of the younger end folk musos, when i first started playing irish, i played a lot on my own, as i wasnt old enough to get to sessions miles away on my own.
in a way, i wish i had, as the energy and feeling of a session would have probably spurred me on to get stuck into a lot more tunes, and hearing the tunes, helped me know them a lot better.
on the other hand, the opposite is true. i wonder if i had persevered if i'd gone to a session, knowing only a smattering of tunes, to be presented with a whole room of thriving energy, and wondering how id ever get the mastery of the instrument like some there.
i can see the appeal of playing solo- tunes in your own time, with the space to master them before going to a session, but credit where its due; the amount of inspiration coming from sitting in a room with some exceptional players and getting a buzz off it is something that keeps me wanting to go back time and again.
# Posted on January 25th 2005 by aaron b
Re: Dislike Sessions??
LOL, Lynda. I am picturing your happy goats. Do they give you a 'nyaaaa' when it's time to change to another tune? ;-]
# Posted on January 26th 2005 by Batlady
Re: Dislike Sessions??
I myself have only recently begun going to sessions, i never could muster the courage to play in front of anybody else. jesus, if i heard somebody coming to my room while i was playing, my fiddle would be in its case so fast it would look like it had just vanished.
now im beginning to enjoy them though. although i still get sweaty hands when somebody asks me to start off!!
although it must be annoying for the more experienced player when young farts (like meself) come into a session and start off with a tune so often played its nearly clichéd, i find it gives everybody a chance to "show off" what they can do with tunes. i.e going off on a melodic tangent!!
but thats just me
# Posted on January 26th 2005 by galway-fiddle
Re: Dislike Sessions??
Lots of good feed back on this one.
As Will mentioned about my profile, I've been to many sessions here in Tokyo big and small and just got one started at a pub not far from where I live.
Just last month at the same pub I had a chance to play with Pat O'Conner from County Clare. Great guy!.
I think the main reason for my dislike of sessions right now
( though I enjoy the music and the craic) is the language barrier I find here. Ive been in Japan a number of years, but I still find it hard to really enjoy the company of others because of the language difference. Maybe I should just pack up the family and move to another country that has good sessions and where everyone speaks English.
Oh, I can hear the wife now. Hahah!!
So its seems, not only am I learning how to play this music, but I have to learn a second language as well.
Maybe I should go to the top of a mountain and practice the Zen of Concertina playing, where the first five years you dont play a note, just practice squeezing the bellows in and out, in and out, in and out. : )
Brad
# Posted on January 26th 2005 by Ani Trec-Noc
Re: Dislike Sessions??
Michele, I wonder if goats are where the music gets the "nyaah" from?
# Posted on January 26th 2005 by Will CPT
Re: Dislike Sessions??
I have often described Afghani bagpipe music by saying they don't bother to kill the goat. They just stick a chanter in an orifice, tuck it under their arm, and squeeze. Tonal variation of the drone is achieved by choice of orifice.
KFG
# Posted on January 26th 2005 by KFG
Re: Dislike Sessions??
Like Inland Revenue - I have felt all that unfriendly stuff. Well, maybe I'm a bit of a loner, and those that prefer it in the herd will always pick that up. Nobody' s fault, really.
Other problems for me are smoke (again!) and I don't really like being around a lot of very drunk people that much.
Musical reasons - everybody playing/nobody listening to anybody else; having to play a rather averaged out version of tunes; having to play tunes a la the latest "cool" CD; sessions being hijacked by types of music I didn't really come to the session to play.
I know not all sessions are like this! Mostly these days I stay away for the non musical reasons, thereby denying myself the good experiences that can also be had.
What would my ideal session be?
(1) Sitting down in a nice relaxing smoke free environment with one or two other musicians, playing tunes thoughtfully and taking time to listen to each others' different settings, instead of trying to find the quickest way to just whack through stuff together.
(2) That kind of session where everybody is on the same stylistic/regional/whatever wavelength anyway and just playing like they're possessed.
# Posted on January 26th 2005 by kris
Re: Dislike Sessions??
Jack said, he wonders if Guinness is as bad in Japan as it is in SF.
Dont know about that, but with the exchange rate, its about $9.00 for a pint. How much is a pint of the black stuff in SF??
-B
# Posted on January 26th 2005 by Ani Trec-Noc
Re: Dislike Sessions??
Full 16 oz. pint $4.50
# Posted on January 26th 2005 by Phantom Button
Re: Dislike Sessions??
$4.50??? oh man, there's another reason I dont like going to sessions over here. : ) I need to move!
# Posted on January 26th 2005 by Ani Trec-Noc
Re: Dislike Sessions??
Short history:
My indoctrination to the session came in the form of American Fife and Drum musters. I started playing fife with a corps 3 years ago, and quickly rose up the ranks to be Fife Sergeant today (basically first chair, or principal). My first F&D Muster was at Deep River, Connecticut (Northeast USA), at which there were over 70 fife and drum corps! After the parade and muster "stand piece", all who want to join for the Jam session, in which (and this is not hyperbole) upwards of 200 fifers and drummers are playing at once (roughly the same tune, roughly at the same tempo).
Some comments, similar to what has been said already: Yes, there are the beginners who only know "Yankee Doodle" or "Battle Hymn of the Republic". It is only right to give them their chance to play along -- at their tempo. We have our "standards" as well, just like ITM sessions, however, there seem to be fewer variations in this genre. The one thing that drives me absolutely wild is that they tend to be so painfully fast (tempo) as to be unmusical! I've only been to a couple of ITM sessions so far, so this is really a newbie question, but has anyone else noticed that as well? I mean it's great that *you* can play it that fast, but is it really necessary? Last week, I got stuck "leading" (if you can call it that) a session, since I was one of 3 people who showed up (normal leaders were kept away by a snowstorm), and even I found that I was playing faster than I really could -- coulda been the bodran player driving me, though.
Anywho, I don't know what my point is here, just that I can see how a session can be a downer, or intimidating, or just plain annoying. Just so long as the Guinness is flowing, I think I'll still show up.
Oh and one more thing -- I too *really* like playing alone, It's where I really work out the bugs, teach my fingers what they're supposed to be doing, learn new tunes, play along with my CD's, work on ornamentation ...
Thanks for reading my rant (if you did).
# Posted on January 26th 2005 by FyfferGuy
Re: Dislike Sessions??
Thanks for the encouragement Showaddy & John J.What holds me back is the problem with back-up ( a discussion we've had plenty times before i know) where if there are other backers you need to be on the ball & know what theyre up to & also the fact that it's easier to mess something up with a mis-placed guitar chord than a wrong flute note.With that in mind i got myself a mando recently & am learning the tunes.At the moment ive got a pretty limited reportoire.
All the same i love the idea of back-up more than anything but dont want to be one of the intermediate cacophonous guitar-players that Kerri's describing above.I'd just like to get things right before i inflict my particular brand of cacophony on anyone else.
# Posted on January 26th 2005 by cunnla
Re: Dislike Sessions??
pints in my local - 1.50 (euros) - for all musicians - whethe newbies or not!!!!
and its tasty guinness!!!!
# Posted on January 26th 2005 by Hugo Chavez
Re: Dislike Sessions??
Imported beer is always different than the stuff where it is originally brewed. And rheinheitsgebot does't apply in the land of the Brave and Free.
A good session is transcendent, timeless, delightfully complex like a nice wine, and slightly wild. The problem with sessions, however, is people. That fact that session people are musicians makes it worse.
Musicians can be wonderful, charming people. But we're all broken and imperfect, and we often bring our emotional stuff to sessions. I do. I probably shouldn't, but I do. Playing music is an emotional release, and emotion is critical to good music. After all, we're expressing the inexpressible by playing notes. Yeah, good craic, flirting, a bit of "lovely tune/playing!" goes a long way, but it's still people.
Some sessions work really well with the particular mix of people. Some don't. Some change week to week, and some go on for years. Sometimes you slog others, mercifully or not, and sometimes you're the goat. Sometimes you make horrible mistakes and say things that fold up good friendships like an aluminum can under a car tire. Sometimes you fall in love. Sometimes, good bands come together from lovely sessions, and sometimes, people are unmercifully driven off into the night for the sins of playing strange instruments badly.
In the end, they're voluntary associations of like-minded individuals. Sometimes, it's bloody lovely, and sometimes, it's merely bloody. Wisdom, tact, and forgiveness always works, along with a good sense of humor.
# Posted on January 26th 2005 by Audeamus
Re: Dislike Sessions??
"Musicians can be wonderful, charming people"
the rest of them come to this site.
# Posted on January 26th 2005 by showaddydadito
Re: Dislike Sessions??
I'm not generally wonderful and charming myself--and, with the exception of my family, most of my friends and enemies would agree-- but I do like broccoli, but w/o the Hollandaise.
# Posted on January 26th 2005 by Audeamus
Re: Dislike Sessions??
harsh but fair.
in sessio veritas.
Hey - is that a plate of broccoli? Pass it down this end of the table wouldja.
# Posted on January 26th 2005 by showaddydadito
Re: Dislike Sessions??
Brad, are there no english speaking gaijin left in Tokyo with which to session? When I lived there in '90-'91, I guess the sessions were a release, a home-coming for me. A place to recharge my batteries, play my music with the like minded, and then go back into the strange and wonderful world of Tokyo. That's not to say that there were no Japanese present, but there were a core of gaijin with which to talk. A few of them were married to Japanese women and may still be there. I wonder.
# Posted on January 26th 2005 by Jode
Re: Dislike Sessions??
". . .but w/o the Hollandaise."
I sing the praise of Hollandaise
A sauce supreme in many ways
And I shudder to depict
A world without Eggs Benedict
--Ogden Nash
KFG
# Posted on January 26th 2005 by KFG
Re: Dislike Sessions??
Brad, instead of practicing the Zen of concertina-playing you might want to find a good teacher of Japanese. It's a difficult language to learn to read, but fairly easy to learn to speak. I'm not terribly brilliant at languages but I was able to become reasonably fluent in 9 months in a non-immersion situation. I'd be willing to bet you'd enjoy the sessions more if you could slag --- er, chat with your fellow players in their own tongue. ;)
# Posted on January 26th 2005 by sara g
Re: ika!
Plus you'd know what the names of all the sushi mean... one less obstacle to enjoying a good session.
# Posted on January 27th 2005 by Gzeg