No names or pack drill here but I was talking to an agent at Celtic Connections regarding the merits of a certain band. He commented that they were quite pleasant but not of "International standard". I had to bite my tongue at this point.
Can anyone define what "International standard" is and why this is deemed necessary(in some quarters) before musicians should be able to play in concert etc? I personally believe that there should be room for all levels of performance at concerts, festivals, and the like and it should be the choice of the punter whether or not they wish to go and see the performance.
The formula for "International Standards" if you want a successful touring band:
1) Must have members who are Irish nationals included (it helps if non-nationals are of Irish ancestry).
2) Some members should be All Ireland winners.
(Or)
3) Some members should be publicly anointed by ITM demigods.
Unfortunately the ITM music industry is extremely ethnocentric. There are some ITM bands who don’t meet the above requirements who can tour to a certain degree, but to have an international status you would have to meet at least one of the above requirements. That’s how it seems to me anywho.
Actually, Celtic Connections isn't an ITM festival. It's a big ole happy family reunion for all Celtic traditional music including Scots, Bretons, Galicians, Irish folks, and a hearty Cape Breton contingent. And I guess Zina's right, I do love to argue.
You're right, Kerri. In fact, it wasn't an Irish band we had been discussing and I was thinking about traditional music in general as opposed to just Irish.
The Celtic Connections festival I went to in Cape Breton was a little snooty for my taste. Great shows, but the masses were aggressively prevented from participating in the making of music. Security guards at all the doors, different hang-outs for performers and audience members (no "grey area" for mingling) and a total lack of scheduled events such as workshops or sessions. As far as festivals go, I prefer the little ones where everybody ends up crammed into a camper-van playing bluegrass at the end of the night.
Was that Celtic Colours or something else, Kerri?
Celtic Connections is held in Glasgow. Although there is a VIP area there, the majority of the musicians mingle with the punters which has always been the way at festivals in Scotland.
Batlady, I think he meant that it was enjoyable but he'd heard better or something like that. Obviously, agents, promoters and the like view things differently from the rest of us who just enjoy the music.
John, were you talking about a local band? Sounds to me like they were looking for a band that has a recording and is on a national or international label. A band that has done a bit of touring and has some reputation.
I like it when festivals support local and regional acts.
I don't want to say too much but they were a overseas band already on the festival line up whom I really enjoyed. The agent is not involved in organising the festival but was just passing comment. He was one of the many "dignitaries" who were around at the weekend.
I like it when festivals offer you a "buffet table" of options. The festival formerly known as Stonehill is a great example. Big acts, little acts, dancing, singing, in a whole camp full of tents around the grounds. This past year, they even had carnival rides for the kids.
AL Brown
Sometimes industry professionals use terminology like "international standards" to disguise their personal opinion by pretending they have some kind standardised guidelines to draw from, thinking that makes them look like they Really Know The Business.
International standard is very much an organiser or promoter's term and I would say it just refers to the fact that an act is good enough to warrant the usual higher cost of flying them in from overseas. Or in other words they will sell enough tickets in a big enough venue to cover their costs.
An Extension of this is if I say a local band is of 'International standard', they are as good as the bands that I have spent big money bringing in from overseas.
I think it's much simpler than that. "International Standard" is simply a scale of measurement. It's a line of personal taste that everybody draws and has nothing to to with the "industry".
Saying someone is "of international standard" is simply a short way of saying "I think they are so good that could become world famous if they tried" or "... deserve to be world famous...".
By saying they are not of international standard simply means that this guy thinks that although they may have some local or regional appeal, he doesn't think they will last long on the worldwide market.
A certain Amy was relating a conversation she'd had lately with some dancer. This dancer wanted to know what dances and dance bands Amy worked with up north. She mentioned Cuckoo's Nest (with whom I play and whose dance Amy was calling last Saturday) and Northern Spy. The dancer had never heard of these bands and wanted to know what dance camps they attended, and where they toured, and hey, must be they're not of International Standard if they don't attend camps or tour. By local standard we're good enough. We're in it for our own entertainment.
*shrug* Dancers are notorious for not knowing a thing about the music or culture. I'm saying this, of course, as a dancer and a teacher of dancers. On the other hand, many players don't know a thing about dancing, either.
Donough -- might've gotten more response from me if I hadn't said the same thing in my first post. :-p *smirk*
International Standard ?
International Standard ?
No names or pack drill here but I was talking to an agent at Celtic Connections regarding the merits of a certain band. He commented that they were quite pleasant but not of "International standard". I had to bite my tongue at this point.
Can anyone define what "International standard" is and why this is deemed necessary(in some quarters) before musicians should be able to play in concert etc? I personally believe that there should be room for all levels of performance at concerts, festivals, and the like and it should be the choice of the punter whether or not they wish to go and see the performance.
They'll be having auditions for sessions next.
# Posted on January 24th 2005 by Johnny Jay
Re: International Standard ?
...didn't you know, Johnny J? From now on, we have to send a tape to Jeremy before being allowed to post as an expert... ;)
Well, I dunno. I've never heard of an "international standard", which is probably just code for "draws a crowd of ticket buyers".
# Posted on January 24th 2005 by Zina Lee
Re: International Standard ?
And me, still working on my "Fiddle Player-Second Class" merit badge. *sigh*
# Posted on January 24th 2005 by Michele Sims
Re: International Standard ?
The formula for "International Standards" if you want a successful touring band:
1) Must have members who are Irish nationals included (it helps if non-nationals are of Irish ancestry).
2) Some members should be All Ireland winners.
(Or)
3) Some members should be publicly anointed by ITM demigods.
Unfortunately the ITM music industry is extremely ethnocentric. There are some ITM bands who don’t meet the above requirements who can tour to a certain degree, but to have an international status you would have to meet at least one of the above requirements. That’s how it seems to me anywho.
# Posted on January 24th 2005 by Phantom Button
Re: International Standard ?
Actually, Celtic Connections isn't an ITM festival. It's a big ole happy family reunion for all Celtic traditional music including Scots, Bretons, Galicians, Irish folks, and a hearty Cape Breton contingent. And I guess Zina's right, I do love to argue.
# Posted on January 24th 2005 by Kerri Brown
Re: International Standard ?
Me too! Never happier than when we're picking something to death. ;)
Kidding. Sort of *smirk*
# Posted on January 24th 2005 by Zina Lee
Re: International Standard ?
You're right, Kerri. In fact, it wasn't an Irish band we had been discussing and I was thinking about traditional music in general as opposed to just Irish.
# Posted on January 24th 2005 by Johnny Jay
Re: International Standard ?
Oh please. You do not like to argue.
# Posted on January 24th 2005 by Jode
Re: International Standard ?
She does so!
# Posted on January 24th 2005 by Zina Lee
Re: International Standard ?
Sorry, guess I went off topic then eh?
# Posted on January 24th 2005 by Phantom Button
Re: International Standard ?
John, to get back to the original idea (you kids in the back seat, knock it off...), what did he mean by "quite pleasant"?
# Posted on January 24th 2005 by Michele Sims
Re: International Standard ?
The Celtic Connections festival I went to in Cape Breton was a little snooty for my taste. Great shows, but the masses were aggressively prevented from participating in the making of music. Security guards at all the doors, different hang-outs for performers and audience members (no "grey area" for mingling) and a total lack of scheduled events such as workshops or sessions. As far as festivals go, I prefer the little ones where everybody ends up crammed into a camper-van playing bluegrass at the end of the night.
# Posted on January 24th 2005 by Kerri Brown
Re: International Standard ?
Exactly, Kerri. And I love going to hear some 'no-name' band that turns out to be better than the headliners.
# Posted on January 24th 2005 by Michele Sims
Re: International Standard ?
Was that Celtic Colours or something else, Kerri?
Although there is a VIP area there, the majority of the musicians mingle with the punters which has always been the way at festivals in Scotland.
Celtic Connections is held in Glasgow.
Batlady, I think he meant that it was enjoyable but he'd heard better or something like that. Obviously, agents, promoters and the like view things differently from the rest of us who just enjoy the music.
# Posted on January 24th 2005 by Johnny Jay
Re: International Standard ?
Ooh, hang on, I'm thinking of Celtic Colours, not Celtic Connections. It's a lucky thing I'm still right!
# Posted on January 24th 2005 by Kerri Brown
Re: International Standard ?
They have to. They have to make up the payment to the bands or performers if not enough people show up to make up the payment.
# Posted on January 24th 2005 by Zina Lee
Re: International Standard ?
Darn, cross post. I would have liked it to look like I realized my error before anyone else did. Oh well.
# Posted on January 24th 2005 by Kerri Brown
(and I mean right about the big 'ole family reunion thing, not the snobbery thing)
# Posted on January 24th 2005 by Kerri Brown
Re: International Standard ?
John, were you talking about a local band? Sounds to me like they were looking for a band that has a recording and is on a national or international label. A band that has done a bit of touring and has some reputation.
I like it when festivals support local and regional acts.
# Posted on January 24th 2005 by Jode
Re: International Standard ?
Kerry, was it the Interceltic Festival of Lorient?
I was thinking of going this year - Is it just a 'show'?
Mark
# Posted on January 24th 2005 by Ottery
Re: International Standard ?
I don't want to say too much but they were a overseas band already on the festival line up whom I really enjoyed. The agent is not involved in organising the festival but was just passing comment. He was one of the many "dignitaries" who were around at the weekend.
# Posted on January 24th 2005 by Johnny Jay
Re: International Standard ?
Ooo, Mark, I hear lovely things about that festival! Go, and report back, I need to know if that's another "save up for it" trip!
# Posted on January 24th 2005 by Zina Lee
Re: International Standard ?
Lorient is a great festival but very big and busy. However, apart from the major concerts you also get plenty of sessions, Irish and otherwise.
I believe you can arrange special packages, if there are several of you going.
# Posted on January 24th 2005 by Johnny Jay
Re: International Standard ?
I like it when festivals offer you a "buffet table" of options. The festival formerly known as Stonehill is a great example. Big acts, little acts, dancing, singing, in a whole camp full of tents around the grounds. This past year, they even had carnival rides for the kids.
AL Brown
# Posted on January 24th 2005 by AlBrown
Re: International Standard ?
Sometimes industry professionals use terminology like "international standards" to disguise their personal opinion by pretending they have some kind standardised guidelines to draw from, thinking that makes them look like they Really Know The Business.
# Posted on January 24th 2005 by Kerri Brown
Re: International Standard ?
International standard is very much an organiser or promoter's term and I would say it just refers to the fact that an act is good enough to warrant the usual higher cost of flying them in from overseas. Or in other words they will sell enough tickets in a big enough venue to cover their costs.
An Extension of this is if I say a local band is of 'International standard', they are as good as the bands that I have spent big money bringing in from overseas.
# Posted on January 25th 2005 by Donough
Re: International Standard ?
I agree with you, Donough.
# Posted on January 25th 2005 by Zina Lee
Re: International Standard ?
Now I know I've got it right
I thought my dog-matic statement would provoke a more animated response - 'woof'
# Posted on January 25th 2005 by Donough
Re: International Standard ?
I think it's much simpler than that. "International Standard" is simply a scale of measurement. It's a line of personal taste that everybody draws and has nothing to to with the "industry".
Saying someone is "of international standard" is simply a short way of saying "I think they are so good that could become world famous if they tried" or "... deserve to be world famous...".
By saying they are not of international standard simply means that this guy thinks that although they may have some local or regional appeal, he doesn't think they will last long on the worldwide market.
# Posted on January 25th 2005 by Shrog
Re: International Standard ?
And thus contribute little toward his next Porsche.
KFG
# Posted on January 25th 2005 by KFG
Re: International Standard ?
A certain Amy was relating a conversation she'd had lately with some dancer. This dancer wanted to know what dances and dance bands Amy worked with up north. She mentioned Cuckoo's Nest (with whom I play and whose dance Amy was calling last Saturday) and Northern Spy. The dancer had never heard of these bands and wanted to know what dance camps they attended, and where they toured, and hey, must be they're not of International Standard if they don't attend camps or tour. By local standard we're good enough. We're in it for our own entertainment.
# Posted on January 25th 2005 by rocking bow
Re: International Standard ?
*shrug* Dancers are notorious for not knowing a thing about the music or culture. I'm saying this, of course, as a dancer and a teacher of dancers. On the other hand, many players don't know a thing about dancing, either.
Donough -- might've gotten more response from me if I hadn't said the same thing in my first post. :-p *smirk*
# Posted on January 25th 2005 by Zina Lee
Re: International Standard ?
irish music has dancers now?
# Posted on January 26th 2005 by daiv
Re: International Standard ?
Actually, dancers have Irish music.
# Posted on January 26th 2005 by rocking bow