Tons of kids and the very beginners of Irish or Scottish music are forced to learn whistle first. But, is this simple, little instrument really easier to play than flute, pipes, fiddle, box, concertina, harmonica, banjo, bouzouki, guitar, bodhran, and bones?
I think the attraction of the whistle is mainly its low cost; all the other instruments you mention cost quite a bit more for a decent instrument, and schools are hesitant to fork out a lot more money when kids might not stick with it.
-Andrew
yes and no. i think any instrument that is forced on a kid is going to be learned with difficulty. but it often seems that children really fall in love with the whistle, and i am always amazed and surprised by how focussed and didicated they are to it.
i once played a few kinda flashy tunes for the daughter of a friend of mine--a mexican girl--and sorta figured she'd thought nothing of it. but turns out her mother told me later that she'd become completely enchanted (probably had to something to do with my handsome charm too----aaaahh!), and i gave her some lessons, and she was great. for kids, it seems that the whistle is not intimidating and getting quick results--even if squeeks--really inspires them. athough i really do recommend the e-flat whislte for children as they can cover the holes easier.
so yes....i think the whistle is definitely easier to play than other instruments....INITIALLY. i think in general most underestimate the whistle, use it as their plaything,or to play some flashy crap, or are too drunk to play their "first" instrument. but at an advanced level, where musisicality is at a premium, the whistle is at least as difficult as the flute. still, i think fiddle and concertina at least strike me as instrinically more difficult....
The whistle is smaller than most of the other instruments you mention too, so it's easier to carry, and doesn't attract the attention of eejits on public transport, in the street etc. And are people really being forced to play the bodhrán or bones? That's pretty harsh
It is also nearly indestructable, a serious concern when it comes to children's instruments ( I went through a couple of bows as a child, they hadn't done the fiberglass thing yet) and isn't much of a loss/theft concern.
And yes, it really is the easiest *beginner's* instrument, and the one most suited for learning to play by ear.
Try the MadForTrad website and the CDROM Tutorial on Tinwhistle. I have seen a friend use this. She was quickly up to speed for sessions, and her kids are learning fast. Best wishes!
its definately the easiest instrument to get started on. the problem about saying its as easy as a flute is the embochoure... flute embochoure is very difficult, much more so than a saxophone or clarinet or trumpet (i cant play trumpet well). when you get down to it, when you're talking a proffessional / advanced level, the nuances of tone are equally difficult on most instruments (unless you're talking more "advanced" instruments like tuba or piccolo, etc). however... the beginning nuances of the flute are a larger obstacle than on any instrument i know of.
the whistle, however, makes a sound when you blow in it, haha. a friend of mine who i am teaching to play silver flute (she bought it cuz i said i would teach her) didnt like my idea when i told her she shoudl get a whistle to learn tunes on at first, because i told her c and f# are different. then, she came over after having the flute for a week or two, and she couldnt make a sound out of it, and the sound she thought she was making was more like a nice whistle. (i told myself i'd never t ake on a student who couldnt make a sound... but my first one cant!). by the end of the night i had her playing a full g scale, because i'm a very unforgiving teacher (i like to think nice... i laugh when i point out little miniscule things most people would let go).
it mustve taken us a half an hour to get her to play her first note, c#. when she got it, i put a whistle in her hand, i held it, and i said, "blow" then made her blow a little softer, and i said, "see? this is what i meant. all that time... and it took 10 seconds to get it on the whistle".
the whistle is not as hard as the flute, at all. it is much easier. however, you can do a lot with it. if you can play the flute, you can play the whistle, not the other way around.
haha... and yes the concertina is very hard. that is why most people at least start on whistle before moving up to a concertina.
As Brendan points out, whistle is easy INITIALLY. When you really get into it, you'll find it more and more difficult to play whistle. Flute is just opposite. Hard at first but becomes easier and easier.
If you're a technically good player, you can easily impress people by playing complicated tunes very fast on whistle. However, it's much harder to play simple tunes on whistle slowly but in an attractive way. Consider why Micho Russell is so admired. Slow airs are even more difficult: it's as hard on whistle as on banjo, I think.
Personally I find slow airs the easiest to play I never know what you guys are blabin about. That is my opinion. I have a way harder time playing full speed reels than with slow airs. Even on Fiddle i can play them alright.
Slow airs may be relatively easy to finger, but they're much harder to play well. I've heard more airs positively MURDERED by whistlers. Ideally a good whistler can and should emulate a good sean-nos singer. For some wonderful examples of really good air playing, I highly recommend Joanie Madden's "Song of the Irish Whistle"...if I could play any air half that well, I'd call myself a truly fine whistler.
Whoever says that slow airs are easy must record a couple of slow tunes on whistle and send the files to Jim Dorans. Then we can judge if you're really qualified to say so.
My advice to people who really want to learn to play airs well is to listen to them SUNG as much as possible. With very few exceptions, slow airs are song tunes, and the worst instrumental versions of airs I've heard were those obviously played by someone who had no idea what the song was about . Heck, the reason I started learning Irish was so I could play airs more expressively.
The thing to remember is just because one can play all the notes doesn't mean one can play the tune well. One of the most commonly murdered tunes, in my opinion, is An Ghaoth Aneas (The South Wind). There's nothing particularly complicated about that tune, and it's in the "beginners" section of most whistle tutors, but I have yet to hear anyone play it to my satisfaction. It should dance, like the cheerful and helpful south wind in the song, not plod along like a tired old pony...but the latter is exactly the way most beginners seem to play it.
The beauty of airs, for beginners, is they do give almost instant gratification in terms of being able to play something that really does sound like a proper tune, but it often seems to me that once they have the fingerings down, they figure they have the airs handled and rush on to dance tunes. That's fine, if that's what they particularly want to play (nothing wrong with that, especially if they're playing mostly in sessions...dance tunes have their own challenges), but the beauty of a good slow air played expressively and in an authentic style by a really good whistler is not to be missed...and only attainable by years of listening and playing.
You're spot on Mac, I have learned almost all of the slow airs I play by listening to singers. For me, the slow airs are stored in a different compartment from where the tunes are. I also feel as though I'm "acting out" the tune rather than simply playing it. Knowing and understanding the lyrics is a great source you can tap for inspiration, and lends to the drama and feeling that you express in the melody. Technique is just a tool that helps you clarify what you’re expressing.
I should add that, while the whistle can be an excellent instrument for beginners, it's a shame that it's often looked upon as "only a beginner's instrument." From my standpoint, I'd much rather see people who would rather be playing, say, the pipes or the concertina or the fiddle, go right on and learn on the instrument that caught their fancy. That includes children. There may be a greater initial learning curve, but ultimately, they will be happier than if they were "forced" to learn whistle first.. I mean, gee...if you had a kid who wanted to learn to play classical viola, would you tell him that he had to learn the recorder first? For God's sake, why? They're nothing alike, and the basic musical skills can be learned as easily on one as the other. I love the whistle...it is, and always will be, my primary instrument, and I would never discourage anyone from learning to play it, but if what they really want to be playing is a bodhran, I say get 'em a bodhran and leave the poor whistle out of it!
Sligo whistle virtuoso Carmel Gunning will be the guest on The Late Session tonight: http://www.rte.ie/radio1/thelatesession We'll listen to the interview with her and a couple of tracks from her recent album with Charlie Lennon. She might talk about the misconception about the instrument.
"My advice to people who really want to learn to play airs well is to listen to them SUNG as much as possible."
Perhaps I have the advantage here of considering myself primarily a singer, one perfectly comfortable with performing a cappella.
Or course that's also why I tend to "airize" tunes, and why on those occassions when I feel compeled to take a crack at composing one they always try to turn into a song.
". . .it's a shame that it's often looked upon as "only a beginner's instrument." "
Is it really? Well, then they're just silly buggers then, ain't they?
To show how people misunderstand whistle, I quote Trevor's comment in a different thread. Of course, I'm not attacking him personally but trying to change the common misconception.
"In my previous post I didn’t say the whistle was “easy”, I said it was probably the “easiest” – in quotes. All musical instruments are hard, for the beginner. Some instruments remain “hard” for some while before it starts to feel “easy”; for the whistle, the beginner’s progress is quicker, and therefore more satisfying and encouraging, than on many other instruments, although it will still take years to reach the advanced stages. But as for the uillean pipes …
If you get some facility in playing the whistle then the keyless flute is an obvious next step, although that has its own set of problems to master. Remember that a number of very good fiddle players also play the whistle/flute."
Trevor
As some pointed out above, the beginners' progress is no quicker on whistle than on any other instrument. It will take you less than a few hours to learn to play D and G scales, Kerry Polka and some other simple tunes on whistle, but it will take longer to get out of beginners' level than on other instruments. You may learn more tunes on whistle in a year, but it'll take much longer to play them comfortably, persuasively, and satisfactorily on this little instrument.
But, what's more revealing in Trevor's comment is that whistle is seen as just a practice instrument for other "more advanced" instruments. Whistle is different from flute: you'll find some well-known fluters play whistle in totally different styles. Whistle is indeed a unique and serious instrument. Just ask some accomplished flute players and pipers if whistle is easier to play. They will answer negatively.
MacT, yesterday's show of The Late Session is now available on the net, and you can listen to it anytime: it's in the archive. There was nothing new about Carmel Gunning, but you should check if you don't know her.
It's a shame she was introduced as a Sligo flute and whistle player because her main instrument is whistle.
slainte the reason that the whistle is considered easy is the tone production. the finger agility is also easier than the flute. i consider it easier to get the flute to be expressive rather than the whistle, and much easier to swing.
yes, they are different instruments and many people do play them differently. good tone on most instruments takes years to develop, and the process of good tone never ceases. the whistle took me a couple years to get good tone on all notes, but i have achieved proficiency in that regard on it. my flute still needs work, in all 3 octaves. especially the upper octave. proof of point, my classical flute teacher cant reach the bottom notes on the silver flute as well as i can even though he is a much better flutist. that is because i play irish music so i need to have good low notes, so its not saying anything about my playing, but merely the difficulty of getting good tone on any instrument. if you dont work on an area of tone, a facet or a range, even a note, it wont come.
even on concertina do you have to worry about tone by the way you push down the buttons.whereas with the whistle it is easier to master the air support and tone.
in my opinion that is what people are referring to when they say its easy.
So, maybe we need classically trained whistle teachers to help us make quicker progress? Just joking, but I think we aren't being taught how to make better tones on whistle, unlike on flute. Isn't it weird?
well, there isnt much to teach besides steady air stream and good air support. i will agree with you there, i might just be assuming that steady and quality air is important to people.
haha, besides? listen to me, i make it seem like its easy to get steady air. its just really easy to not notice it on the whistle.
that is an interesting concept. if it was a classical instrument, what would be done differently with the tone production? and how long would it take before keys would be added, haha.
Whistle for kids and beginners?
Whistle for kids and beginners?
Tons of kids and the very beginners of Irish or Scottish music are forced to learn whistle first. But, is this simple, little instrument really easier to play than flute, pipes, fiddle, box, concertina, harmonica, banjo, bouzouki, guitar, bodhran, and bones?
# Posted on January 21st 2005 by slainte
Re: Whistle for kids and beginners?
I think the attraction of the whistle is mainly its low cost; all the other instruments you mention cost quite a bit more for a decent instrument, and schools are hesitant to fork out a lot more money when kids might not stick with it.
-Andrew
# Posted on January 21st 2005 by Andrew Plett
Re: Whistle for kids and beginners?
yes and no. i think any instrument that is forced on a kid is going to be learned with difficulty. but it often seems that children really fall in love with the whistle, and i am always amazed and surprised by how focussed and didicated they are to it.
i once played a few kinda flashy tunes for the daughter of a friend of mine--a mexican girl--and sorta figured she'd thought nothing of it. but turns out her mother told me later that she'd become completely enchanted (probably had to something to do with my handsome charm too----aaaahh!), and i gave her some lessons, and she was great. for kids, it seems that the whistle is not intimidating and getting quick results--even if squeeks--really inspires them. athough i really do recommend the e-flat whislte for children as they can cover the holes easier.
so yes....i think the whistle is definitely easier to play than other instruments....INITIALLY. i think in general most underestimate the whistle, use it as their plaything,or to play some flashy crap, or are too drunk to play their "first" instrument. but at an advanced level, where musisicality is at a premium, the whistle is at least as difficult as the flute. still, i think fiddle and concertina at least strike me as instrinically more difficult....
imho
# Posted on January 21st 2005 by Brendan
Re: Whistle for kids and beginners?
The whistle is smaller than most of the other instruments you mention too, so it's easier to carry, and doesn't attract the attention of eejits on public transport, in the street etc. And are people really being forced to play the bodhrán or bones? That's pretty harsh
# Posted on January 21st 2005 by Just a person
Re: Whistle for kids and beginners?
It is also nearly indestructable, a serious concern when it comes to children's instruments ( I went through a couple of bows as a child, they hadn't done the fiberglass thing yet) and isn't much of a loss/theft concern.
And yes, it really is the easiest *beginner's* instrument, and the one most suited for learning to play by ear.
KFG
# Posted on January 21st 2005 by KFG
Re: Whistle for kids and beginners?
Try the MadForTrad website and the CDROM Tutorial on Tinwhistle. I have seen a friend use this. She was quickly up to speed for sessions, and her kids are learning fast. Best wishes!
# Posted on January 21st 2005 by CeolCairdeas
Re: Whistle for kids and beginners?
its definately the easiest instrument to get started on. the problem about saying its as easy as a flute is the embochoure... flute embochoure is very difficult, much more so than a saxophone or clarinet or trumpet (i cant play trumpet well). when you get down to it, when you're talking a proffessional / advanced level, the nuances of tone are equally difficult on most instruments (unless you're talking more "advanced" instruments like tuba or piccolo, etc). however... the beginning nuances of the flute are a larger obstacle than on any instrument i know of.
the whistle, however, makes a sound when you blow in it, haha. a friend of mine who i am teaching to play silver flute (she bought it cuz i said i would teach her) didnt like my idea when i told her she shoudl get a whistle to learn tunes on at first, because i told her c and f# are different. then, she came over after having the flute for a week or two, and she couldnt make a sound out of it, and the sound she thought she was making was more like a nice whistle. (i told myself i'd never t ake on a student who couldnt make a sound... but my first one cant!). by the end of the night i had her playing a full g scale, because i'm a very unforgiving teacher (i like to think nice... i laugh when i point out little miniscule things most people would let go).
it mustve taken us a half an hour to get her to play her first note, c#. when she got it, i put a whistle in her hand, i held it, and i said, "blow" then made her blow a little softer, and i said, "see? this is what i meant. all that time... and it took 10 seconds to get it on the whistle".
the whistle is not as hard as the flute, at all. it is much easier. however, you can do a lot with it. if you can play the flute, you can play the whistle, not the other way around.
haha... and yes the concertina is very hard. that is why most people at least start on whistle before moving up to a concertina.
# Posted on January 22nd 2005 by daiv
Re: Whistle for kids and beginners?
Well, my opinion:
As Brendan points out, whistle is easy INITIALLY. When you really get into it, you'll find it more and more difficult to play whistle. Flute is just opposite. Hard at first but becomes easier and easier.
If you're a technically good player, you can easily impress people by playing complicated tunes very fast on whistle. However, it's much harder to play simple tunes on whistle slowly but in an attractive way. Consider why Micho Russell is so admired. Slow airs are even more difficult: it's as hard on whistle as on banjo, I think.
# Posted on January 22nd 2005 by slainte
Re: Whistle for kids and beginners?
"haha... and yes the concertina is very hard. that is why most people at least start on whistle before moving up to a concertina."
Tell me about it. I've been blowing on my concertina for weeks and still can't get a note out of it.
KFG
# Posted on January 22nd 2005 by KFG
Re: Whistle for kids and beginners?
Personally I find slow airs the easiest to play I never know what you guys are blabin about. That is my opinion. I have a way harder time playing full speed reels than with slow airs. Even on Fiddle i can play them alright.
# Posted on January 22nd 2005 by Unseen122
Re: Whistle for kids and beginners?
Slow airs may be relatively easy to finger, but they're much harder to play well. I've heard more airs positively MURDERED by whistlers. Ideally a good whistler can and should emulate a good sean-nos singer. For some wonderful examples of really good air playing, I highly recommend Joanie Madden's "Song of the Irish Whistle"...if I could play any air half that well, I'd call myself a truly fine whistler.
Redwolf
# Posted on January 22nd 2005 by MacTireRua
Re: Whistle for kids and beginners?
unseen - style is different than mechanics. if it werent, then we would all be replaced by robots playing instruments.
KFG - haha. me too. then i realized that i had to take it out of the fire before it could make a sound....
# Posted on January 22nd 2005 by daiv
Re: Whistle for kids and beginners?
I'm already a robot.
# Posted on January 22nd 2005 by Phantom Button
Re: Whistle for kids and beginners?
Whoever says that slow airs are easy must record a couple of slow tunes on whistle and send the files to Jim Dorans. Then we can judge if you're really qualified to say so.
# Posted on January 22nd 2005 by slainte
Re: Whistle for kids and beginners?
My advice to people who really want to learn to play airs well is to listen to them SUNG as much as possible. With very few exceptions, slow airs are song tunes, and the worst instrumental versions of airs I've heard were those obviously played by someone who had no idea what the song was about . Heck, the reason I started learning Irish was so I could play airs more expressively.
The thing to remember is just because one can play all the notes doesn't mean one can play the tune well. One of the most commonly murdered tunes, in my opinion, is An Ghaoth Aneas (The South Wind). There's nothing particularly complicated about that tune, and it's in the "beginners" section of most whistle tutors, but I have yet to hear anyone play it to my satisfaction. It should dance, like the cheerful and helpful south wind in the song, not plod along like a tired old pony...but the latter is exactly the way most beginners seem to play it.
The beauty of airs, for beginners, is they do give almost instant gratification in terms of being able to play something that really does sound like a proper tune, but it often seems to me that once they have the fingerings down, they figure they have the airs handled and rush on to dance tunes. That's fine, if that's what they particularly want to play (nothing wrong with that, especially if they're playing mostly in sessions...dance tunes have their own challenges), but the beauty of a good slow air played expressively and in an authentic style by a really good whistler is not to be missed...and only attainable by years of listening and playing.
# Posted on January 22nd 2005 by MacTireRua
Re: Whistle for kids and beginners?
You're spot on Mac, I have learned almost all of the slow airs I play by listening to singers. For me, the slow airs are stored in a different compartment from where the tunes are. I also feel as though I'm "acting out" the tune rather than simply playing it. Knowing and understanding the lyrics is a great source you can tap for inspiration, and lends to the drama and feeling that you express in the melody. Technique is just a tool that helps you clarify what you’re expressing.
# Posted on January 23rd 2005 by Phantom Button
Re: Whistle for kids and beginners?
when I first glanced at this discussion I thought it said whiskey for kids and begginers at first. I think cost is definitly a factor though.
# Posted on January 23rd 2005 by banana512
Re: Whistle for kids and beginners?
You guys don't have to be so jealous that I am naturally good at slow airs.
# Posted on January 23rd 2005 by Unseen122
Re: Whistle for kids and beginners?
I should add that, while the whistle can be an excellent instrument for beginners, it's a shame that it's often looked upon as "only a beginner's instrument." From my standpoint, I'd much rather see people who would rather be playing, say, the pipes or the concertina or the fiddle, go right on and learn on the instrument that caught their fancy. That includes children. There may be a greater initial learning curve, but ultimately, they will be happier than if they were "forced" to learn whistle first.. I mean, gee...if you had a kid who wanted to learn to play classical viola, would you tell him that he had to learn the recorder first? For God's sake, why? They're nothing alike, and the basic musical skills can be learned as easily on one as the other. I love the whistle...it is, and always will be, my primary instrument, and I would never discourage anyone from learning to play it, but if what they really want to be playing is a bodhran, I say get 'em a bodhran and leave the poor whistle out of it!
# Posted on January 23rd 2005 by MacTireRua
Re: Whistle for kids and beginners?
Sligo whistle virtuoso Carmel Gunning will be the guest on The Late Session tonight: http://www.rte.ie/radio1/thelatesession We'll listen to the interview with her and a couple of tracks from her recent album with Charlie Lennon. She might talk about the misconception about the instrument.
# Posted on January 23rd 2005 by slainte
Re: Whistle for kids and beginners?
"My advice to people who really want to learn to play airs well is to listen to them SUNG as much as possible."
Perhaps I have the advantage here of considering myself primarily a singer, one perfectly comfortable with performing a cappella.
Or course that's also why I tend to "airize" tunes, and why on those occassions when I feel compeled to take a crack at composing one they always try to turn into a song.
". . .it's a shame that it's often looked upon as "only a beginner's instrument." "
Is it really? Well, then they're just silly buggers then, ain't they?
KFG
# Posted on January 24th 2005 by KFG
Re: Whistle for kids and beginners?
To show how people misunderstand whistle, I quote Trevor's comment in a different thread. Of course, I'm not attacking him personally but trying to change the common misconception.
"In my previous post I didn’t say the whistle was “easy”, I said it was probably the “easiest” – in quotes. All musical instruments are hard, for the beginner. Some instruments remain “hard” for some while before it starts to feel “easy”; for the whistle, the beginner’s progress is quicker, and therefore more satisfying and encouraging, than on many other instruments, although it will still take years to reach the advanced stages. But as for the uillean pipes …
If you get some facility in playing the whistle then the keyless flute is an obvious next step, although that has its own set of problems to master. Remember that a number of very good fiddle players also play the whistle/flute."
Trevor
As some pointed out above, the beginners' progress is no quicker on whistle than on any other instrument. It will take you less than a few hours to learn to play D and G scales, Kerry Polka and some other simple tunes on whistle, but it will take longer to get out of beginners' level than on other instruments. You may learn more tunes on whistle in a year, but it'll take much longer to play them comfortably, persuasively, and satisfactorily on this little instrument.
But, what's more revealing in Trevor's comment is that whistle is seen as just a practice instrument for other "more advanced" instruments. Whistle is different from flute: you'll find some well-known fluters play whistle in totally different styles. Whistle is indeed a unique and serious instrument. Just ask some accomplished flute players and pipers if whistle is easier to play. They will answer negatively.
# Posted on January 24th 2005 by slainte
Re: Whistle for kids and beginners?
Well, I could be wrong of course, but I think you misunderstand Trevor's post.
As it happens I agree with the both of you and don't see any dicotomy in that.
KFG
# Posted on January 24th 2005 by KFG
Yes, I'm aware Trevor's post is more subtle than it sounds at first. But, it's misleading in some points.
# Posted on January 24th 2005 by slainte
Re: Whistle for kids and beginners?
So, Slainte...how was The Late Session? I meant to listen in, but was sick and went to bed early instead.
# Posted on January 24th 2005 by MacTireRua
Re: Whistle for kids and beginners?
MacT, yesterday's show of The Late Session is now available on the net, and you can listen to it anytime: it's in the archive. There was nothing new about Carmel Gunning, but you should check if you don't know her.
It's a shame she was introduced as a Sligo flute and whistle player because her main instrument is whistle.
# Posted on January 24th 2005 by slainte
Re: Whistle for kids and beginners?
slainte the reason that the whistle is considered easy is the tone production. the finger agility is also easier than the flute. i consider it easier to get the flute to be expressive rather than the whistle, and much easier to swing.
yes, they are different instruments and many people do play them differently. good tone on most instruments takes years to develop, and the process of good tone never ceases. the whistle took me a couple years to get good tone on all notes, but i have achieved proficiency in that regard on it. my flute still needs work, in all 3 octaves. especially the upper octave. proof of point, my classical flute teacher cant reach the bottom notes on the silver flute as well as i can even though he is a much better flutist. that is because i play irish music so i need to have good low notes, so its not saying anything about my playing, but merely the difficulty of getting good tone on any instrument. if you dont work on an area of tone, a facet or a range, even a note, it wont come.
even on concertina do you have to worry about tone by the way you push down the buttons.whereas with the whistle it is easier to master the air support and tone.
in my opinion that is what people are referring to when they say its easy.
# Posted on January 26th 2005 by daiv
Re: Whistle for kids and beginners?
So, maybe we need classically trained whistle teachers to help us make quicker progress? Just joking, but I think we aren't being taught how to make better tones on whistle, unlike on flute. Isn't it weird?
# Posted on January 26th 2005 by slainte
Re: Whistle for kids and beginners?
well, there isnt much to teach besides steady air stream and good air support. i will agree with you there, i might just be assuming that steady and quality air is important to people.
haha, besides? listen to me, i make it seem like its easy to get steady air. its just really easy to not notice it on the whistle.
that is an interesting concept. if it was a classical instrument, what would be done differently with the tone production? and how long would it take before keys would be added, haha.
# Posted on January 27th 2005 by daiv