I enjoy many airs that Carolan composed, it was some of the best harp pieces for the Irish Harp. But I've often asked myself if his works are traditional, many sound like late Elizabethan & ealry Boroque music pieces than folk ditties to me. This doesn't stop me from playing & enjoying his compositions. I was curious how others felt about this issue.
For myself,I don't mind playing the odd O'Carolan tune in a session and it can make a nice change between the faster reels and so on.He was an Irish composer after all and a lot of his tunes seem suitable for the dance(eg. Fanny Power) so why not?That said, a whole evening of his music would certainly change the character of our sessions! That's how I feel,anyway.
I love Carolan's compositions, but it should be remembered that they're more classically formed than Irish traditional music. Carolan was composing in the style of the music of the time, on traditional instruments with an Irish take on the music. Many traditional players don't particularly care for the music at all. Me, I love them, especially The Fairy Queen, which I've played for weddings as the bride walks to the altar, along with Carolan's Draught as a recessional.
Carolan's tunes were definately influenced by the baroque "art music " of his day - but he also considered himself a "folk" musician. A story I've often heard repeated among harpers is that Carolan once accompanied one of his patrons to a concert of baroque music - (I think it was Bach, but I'm not sure). Afterwards, Carolan posed the age old question "how is it that composers of art music get such recognition and prestige, when I don't" to which his patron replied " if you could compose music like that, you would." Carolan's response: "Compose? I can improvise better than that!" At which point he proceeded to sit down at his harp and spontaneously compose the tune we call "Carolan's Concerto." For those not familiar with it, it's a VERY stylistically baroque sounding peice, and really hard on the harp - Carolan new what he was doing. It doesn't work all that well as a session tune per se, but its a lot of fun to play when you know it for what it is - an elbow in the ribs of those classical musicans who get just a little too full of themselves
Paddy League tells the story about the harper (and deadly rival of Carolan) Daithi O Murchadha (who composed Lord Mayo, which was recorded by Lunasa on their first album) getting roaring drunk at a gathering of musicians, and he started yelling about O'Carolan, saying that he was a terrible musician who couldn't compose his way out of a wet paper bag.
As it happened, O'Carolan was also there, unknown to O Murchadha. The blind harper stayed extremely quiet (although seething) as O Murchadha continued to yell insults about his rival, and slowly moved through the gathering, homing in on O Murchadha by the noise. When he finally reached his goal of directly behind his rival, O'Carolan reached out and started throttling O Murchadha. Harpers have extremely strong fingers and hands; the story goes that it took five strong men to pull the blind musician's hands off O Murchadha's throat!
Well, they had brass-strung harps then, not the wimpy nylon strings that we use today. And they played with their nails, which had to be long and strong. Definitely don't mess with the Irish harpers!
I was once in a pub in Manchester(UK) where an old boy who turned out to be from Killybegs was playing.I was still in my monkey suit(minus the bow-tie) from playing at the theatre and when he spotted me at the bar he launched into O'Carolan's concerto. I bought him a drink.He asked for a lemonade which surprised me as he had a nose worthy of the great W.C.Fields, so it just goes to show...
Dave
ps: although he was from Donegal his playing was n't at all fast,so that just goe to show too!
Interesting question as to whether or not Carolan's music is 'traditional' or not (BTW- I've always heard him refered to as either O'Carolan or just Carolan when using surname only, but using his full name I've only ever heard Turlough O'Carolan, never without the 'O').
Of course the whole issue of what is 'traditional' can be a very complex and complicated one with much room for debate and many thorny issues. It strikes me, however, that with the music of Turlough O'Carolan what it all boils down to is the fact that he took musical styles from elsewhere but brought them into a uniquely Irish setting and gave them a uniqely Irish flavour.
This in fact is a feature of much of the music we now call traditional Irish (e.g. hornpipes came from England, mazurkas and polkas from Europe - indeed many of the tunes themselves may have originated elsewhere, but they are played in a uniquely Irish way). With the harp music of the 17th and 18th centuries you have a particularly interesting and unique situation where the ancient traditions of the bardic schools of harp playing combined with the new social order of the Anglo-Irish aristocracy and a different breed of harper-composers, the influence of the new European baroque music and its popularity amongst the harpers' patrons, and in addition the influences of the 'folk' music of the lower classes.
I play the Irish harp, and whereas most young harpers today are primarily interested in the jigs reels and hornpipes same as any other trad musicians, the music of O'Carolan (along with other harp music of the 17th/18th centuries) is also a significant part of the repertoire, and one which I enjoy very much.
Turlough Carolan
Turlough Carolan
I enjoy many airs that Carolan composed, it was some of the best harp pieces for the Irish Harp. But I've often asked myself if his works are traditional, many sound like late Elizabethan & ealry Boroque music pieces than folk ditties to me. This doesn't stop me from playing & enjoying his compositions. I was curious how others felt about this issue.
# Posted on August 22nd 2001 by Brad Maloney
Re: Turlough Carolan
For myself,I don't mind playing the odd O'Carolan tune in a session and it can make a nice change between the faster reels and so on.He was an Irish composer after all and a lot of his tunes seem suitable for the dance(eg. Fanny Power) so why not?That said, a whole evening of his music would certainly change the character of our sessions! That's how I feel,anyway.
# Posted on August 22nd 2001 by biggus dave
Re: Turlough Carolan
I love Carolan's compositions, but it should be remembered that they're more classically formed than Irish traditional music. Carolan was composing in the style of the music of the time, on traditional instruments with an Irish take on the music. Many traditional players don't particularly care for the music at all. Me, I love them, especially The Fairy Queen, which I've played for weddings as the bride walks to the altar, along with Carolan's Draught as a recessional.
Zina
# Posted on August 22nd 2001 by Zina Lee
Re: Turlough Carolan
What instrument do you play, Zina?
# Posted on August 23rd 2001 by glauber
Re: Turlough Carolan
Fiddle, here. I'm a relative beginner, though.
# Posted on August 23rd 2001 by Zina Lee
Stupid question
Here goes: is it Turlogh Carolan or O'Carolan? I've seen it both ways, but i think it's more common without the "O'".
# Posted on August 24th 2001 by glauber
Re: Turlough Carolan
It's both -- or at least, yes, both are correct, insofar as I've been able to ascertain.
# Posted on August 24th 2001 by Zina Lee
Re: Turlough Carolan - fun stories
Carolan's tunes were definately influenced by the baroque "art music " of his day - but he also considered himself a "folk" musician. A story I've often heard repeated among harpers is that Carolan once accompanied one of his patrons to a concert of baroque music - (I think it was Bach, but I'm not sure). Afterwards, Carolan posed the age old question "how is it that composers of art music get such recognition and prestige, when I don't" to which his patron replied " if you could compose music like that, you would." Carolan's response: "Compose? I can improvise better than that!" At which point he proceeded to sit down at his harp and spontaneously compose the tune we call "Carolan's Concerto." For those not familiar with it, it's a VERY stylistically baroque sounding peice, and really hard on the harp - Carolan new what he was doing. It doesn't work all that well as a session tune per se, but its a lot of fun to play when you know it for what it is - an elbow in the ribs of those classical musicans who get just a little too full of themselves
# Posted on August 30th 2001 by Bansidhe27
Another Turlough Carolan story
Paddy League tells the story about the harper (and deadly rival of Carolan) Daithi O Murchadha (who composed Lord Mayo, which was recorded by Lunasa on their first album) getting roaring drunk at a gathering of musicians, and he started yelling about O'Carolan, saying that he was a terrible musician who couldn't compose his way out of a wet paper bag.
As it happened, O'Carolan was also there, unknown to O Murchadha. The blind harper stayed extremely quiet (although seething) as O Murchadha continued to yell insults about his rival, and slowly moved through the gathering, homing in on O Murchadha by the noise. When he finally reached his goal of directly behind his rival, O'Carolan reached out and started throttling O Murchadha. Harpers have extremely strong fingers and hands; the story goes that it took five strong men to pull the blind musician's hands off O Murchadha's throat!
Zina
# Posted on August 30th 2001 by Zina Lee
Re: Turlough Carolan
Well, they had brass-strung harps then, not the wimpy nylon strings that we use today. And they played with their nails, which had to be long and strong. Definitely don't mess with the Irish harpers!
# Posted on August 30th 2001 by glauber
Re: Turlough Carolan
I was once in a pub in Manchester(UK) where an old boy who turned out to be from Killybegs was playing.I was still in my monkey suit(minus the bow-tie) from playing at the theatre and when he spotted me at the bar he launched into O'Carolan's concerto. I bought him a drink.He asked for a lemonade which surprised me as he had a nose worthy of the great W.C.Fields, so it just goes to show...
Dave
ps: although he was from Donegal his playing was n't at all fast,so that just goe to show too!
# Posted on August 30th 2001 by biggus dave
Lemonade
Maybe he was expecting a shandy! Heh.
# Posted on August 30th 2001 by Zina Lee
Re: Turlough Carolan
Interesting question as to whether or not Carolan's music is 'traditional' or not (BTW- I've always heard him refered to as either O'Carolan or just Carolan when using surname only, but using his full name I've only ever heard Turlough O'Carolan, never without the 'O').
Of course the whole issue of what is 'traditional' can be a very complex and complicated one with much room for debate and many thorny issues. It strikes me, however, that with the music of Turlough O'Carolan what it all boils down to is the fact that he took musical styles from elsewhere but brought them into a uniquely Irish setting and gave them a uniqely Irish flavour.
This in fact is a feature of much of the music we now call traditional Irish (e.g. hornpipes came from England, mazurkas and polkas from Europe - indeed many of the tunes themselves may have originated elsewhere, but they are played in a uniquely Irish way). With the harp music of the 17th and 18th centuries you have a particularly interesting and unique situation where the ancient traditions of the bardic schools of harp playing combined with the new social order of the Anglo-Irish aristocracy and a different breed of harper-composers, the influence of the new European baroque music and its popularity amongst the harpers' patrons, and in addition the influences of the 'folk' music of the lower classes.
I play the Irish harp, and whereas most young harpers today are primarily interested in the jigs reels and hornpipes same as any other trad musicians, the music of O'Carolan (along with other harp music of the 17th/18th centuries) is also a significant part of the repertoire, and one which I enjoy very much.
Diana Whelan
# Posted on August 31st 2001 by diana
Carolan or O'Carolan
I came across this explanation of the name:
http://www.contemplator.com/carolan/carlnbio.html#name
which is, btw, part of a very good Carolan site; check it out...
# Posted on September 17th 2001 by glauber