For me, I just pick up my fiddle/whistle when I feel like composing and I try to come up with some sort of a theme to the tune and then I kind of just let the tune play as I hear it in me head. Occasionally I'll end up working in and out some notes here and there and then I top it off with a lovely name!
I've written a couple of polkas for friends children but they just happened. One minute I had a vague idea floating in my head, picked up the fiddle, and there it was. The only fear is that the tune is not one that I know vaguely from sessions
Most good tunes compose themselves but the problem is if you have a great idea for an A part but what to put as the B part.
Then you have to worry about whether it is just a regurgitation of a poorly learned tune fragment.
The greatest joy is to compose something and then hear what someone else can do with it to give it new life. Not that this has happened too often for me.
It is possible to build a tune up around a melodic 'hook' - you need at least that one bit of inspiration to begin with - but the problem is to stop it from sounding contrived.
I make sure I write these tunes down ASAP because otherwise I may go to sleep and forget them. Sometimes I go back to tunes I wrote a year ago and think -omigod how awful. But if they still sound good then there must be something worthwhile about the tune.
I'm really interested in what others do so come on all you closet composers. Maybe Dow would come back out of hiding on his one☺
I never feel like composing tunes - but sometimes they arrive in my head anyway, and I go and write them down.
Yes, the A part usually comes ready made, but sometimes I have to actually work at the B part. I don't usually have too much trouble doing this - maybe because I prefer to follow the fairly structured formats that a lot of trad tunes have.
I probably only average about a tune a year (but 5 might come one year, and then 5 years nothing). Some of my tunes do get played, though, which is heartening. Although I was shocked to see a couple of them mentioned on a website awhile back. Wierd... (and, no, I'm not adding a link)
Composing tunes??? Whoa! I haven't even learnt enough of the damn things yet!
Although, I have made up tunes (mostly by humming) but I can't just sit down and hum, I have to be doing something (either ironing or hoovering).
I find often when I compose that the underlying theme of the piece seems the same as a tune I already know, but Im probably the only one who can tell. The tune itself is pretty much original.
I've tried to compose tunes in the past, and usually found that they've ended up sounding either contrived and gimmicky or just bland and uninteresting. So, I prefer to just let the tunes find me. I am often visited by promising musical ideas, but I usually let them go, because I would not be able to do them justice with my compositional talents. If a tune really wants me as its 'composer', it will come and find me.
If you're serious about composing tunes it helps if you study the structure of a lot of tunes in detail. The sort of thing you'll notice is that the A part is likely to be in the lower or middle register, and the corresponding B part is likely to be mostly in the middle or high register as a contrast. You'll also notice that the first 2 bars of the A part are like a "question" which is "answered" by the next 2 bars. In fact, this "question and answer" underpins the structure of the majority of tunes, and incidentally is of enormous help in learning them. Also, notice how the key or mode may change during the tune. If you can read the dots you could look at a large collection of tunes like O'Neill and see the rise and fall patterns in the tunes.
Unfortunately, having a brilliant idea for a tune is only the first step in long and often hard process. It's not just the initial motif that's important, it's what is done with it and how counter-motifs are used.
It's a bit like writing a book, I suppose. It's no good having ideas if you haven't got the structure there to support and develop them. If you have a structure to work to it won't actually automate the tune writing process but it will help stop you from going off the rails or wasting time running up a blind alley.
Talking of writing books reminds me. I seem to remember that some centuries ago (in the session.org time-scale!) Will Harmon gave some very good advice in a discussion thread about composing tunes and illustrated his advice by actually composing a tune (or part of one) in the thread. Can anyone (Will, Zina?) identify that discussion?
Trevor, thanks for the reminder. That was a fun little exercise/experiment, and Armand might enjoy reading the thread, though my "exploded drawing" of composing a tune is far more structured than how a tune usually comes to me.
One thing you've got to bear in mind when composing tunes is that you're working on a small "canvas" - no more than 16 bars (excluding repeats) in which to set out the main theme, develop it, perhaps bring in a counter-theme, and bring it all to a satisfactory end in a balanced fashion. This is no small task, bearing in mind that for example, in literature, short stories and poetry such as sonnets are always difficult to write successfully, and in art , miniatures demand a different type of skill to that associated with the big canvas.
This is why a lot of preliminary study of how the established tunes are constructed (effectively, what makes them work) is so important. Writers, artists and composers in general all do this in their own disciplines so that they can be sure that they have had the training to create something worthwhile. One thing, though, about Irish trad music, is that you're dealing just with a single melodic line - no harmonies, counterpoints, or orchestrations to worry about - so that makes the task slightly easier. The worst thing is that you'll write a tune for the fiddle which is uncomfortable to play on the whistle or keyless flute, or vice versa, but it's always been like that.
Trev, don't rule out 32 bar tunes and the like. I prefer to let the muse (whatever s/he is) give me the length of the phrase and then go from there. Longer phrases usually beg for longer parts to contain them. And then you can always get into 3, 4, and 5 part tunes. Or more (Strayaway Child comes to mind).
And of course all this talk of structure matters most if you're trying to create a tune that fits (or only slightly stretches) the confines of a particular genre or tradition. If you don't care whether your tune will be accepted into the Irish tradition, say, and get played at sessions, then you're freer to let your imagination dictate the form.
Hmmm...so would it be possible to compose an authentically Irish sounding tango, or a ju ju Irish slip jig?
i usually arrive upon ideas by mistake or by playing variations to tunes. I then try to play through the form of the soon-to-be-tune without stopping to see what I come up with. I dont stop to fix any notes or phrases until I think i am finished. This really helps your improvisational skills and trains your ear and fingers
One of the qualities of this music (least ways it was) is that new tunes take a while to filter in. They travel through many many people before they even approach the status of "standard". So "filter" is the ideal word.
Unfortunately, a lot of the time, the process fails, and we end up with a hell of a lot of s h i t tunes.
My question is that if you are familiar with the FACT that there are many hundreds of thousand of tunes already in the tradition and that out of that plethora, they is maybe a thousand or so tunes that are completely brilliant, why assume that you can write a tune that can possibly make its way into that hallowed top 1%?
Curious, how do YOU go about composing tunes?
Curious, how do YOU go about composing tunes?
How does the process work for you?
For me, I just pick up my fiddle/whistle when I feel like composing and I try to come up with some sort of a theme to the tune and then I kind of just let the tune play as I hear it in me head. Occasionally I'll end up working in and out some notes here and there and then I top it off with a lovely name!
Et tu?
Cheers and Haiku,
Armand
# Posted on January 7th 2005 by fiddlinviolinin
Re: Curious, how do YOU go about composing tunes?
I've written a couple of polkas for friends children but they just happened. One minute I had a vague idea floating in my head, picked up the fiddle, and there it was. The only fear is that the tune is not one that I know vaguely from sessions
# Posted on January 7th 2005 by Cath
Re: Curious, how do YOU go about composing tunes?
Most good tunes compose themselves but the problem is if you have a great idea for an A part but what to put as the B part.
Then you have to worry about whether it is just a regurgitation of a poorly learned tune fragment.
The greatest joy is to compose something and then hear what someone else can do with it to give it new life. Not that this has happened too often for me.
It is possible to build a tune up around a melodic 'hook' - you need at least that one bit of inspiration to begin with - but the problem is to stop it from sounding contrived.
I make sure I write these tunes down ASAP because otherwise I may go to sleep and forget them. Sometimes I go back to tunes I wrote a year ago and think -omigod how awful. But if they still sound good then there must be something worthwhile about the tune.
I'm really interested in what others do so come on all you closet composers. Maybe Dow would come back out of hiding on his one☺
# Posted on January 7th 2005 by Donough
Re: Curious, how do YOU go about composing tunes?
I never feel like composing tunes - but sometimes they arrive in my head anyway, and I go and write them down.
Yes, the A part usually comes ready made, but sometimes I have to actually work at the B part. I don't usually have too much trouble doing this - maybe because I prefer to follow the fairly structured formats that a lot of trad tunes have.
I probably only average about a tune a year (but 5 might come one year, and then 5 years nothing). Some of my tunes do get played, though, which is heartening. Although I was shocked to see a couple of them mentioned on a website awhile back. Wierd... (and, no, I'm not adding a link)
# Posted on January 7th 2005 by kris
Re: Curious, how do YOU go about composing tunes?
Composing tunes??? Whoa! I haven't even learnt enough of the damn things yet!
Although, I have made up tunes (mostly by humming) but I can't just sit down and hum, I have to be doing something (either ironing or hoovering).
# Posted on January 7th 2005 by Folkie Junkie
Re: Curious, how do YOU go about composing tunes?
the B alwyas ends up being the A
# Posted on January 7th 2005 by Test
Re: Curious, how do YOU go about composing tunes?
I find often when I compose that the underlying theme of the piece seems the same as a tune I already know, but Im probably the only one who can tell. The tune itself is pretty much original.
# Posted on January 8th 2005 by banana512
Re: Curious, how do YOU go about composing tunes?
I've tried to compose tunes in the past, and usually found that they've ended up sounding either contrived and gimmicky or just bland and uninteresting. So, I prefer to just let the tunes find me. I am often visited by promising musical ideas, but I usually let them go, because I would not be able to do them justice with my compositional talents. If a tune really wants me as its 'composer', it will come and find me.
# Posted on January 8th 2005 by OrganicPeatCreature
Re: Curious, how do YOU go about composing tunes?
If you're serious about composing tunes it helps if you study the structure of a lot of tunes in detail. The sort of thing you'll notice is that the A part is likely to be in the lower or middle register, and the corresponding B part is likely to be mostly in the middle or high register as a contrast. You'll also notice that the first 2 bars of the A part are like a "question" which is "answered" by the next 2 bars. In fact, this "question and answer" underpins the structure of the majority of tunes, and incidentally is of enormous help in learning them. Also, notice how the key or mode may change during the tune. If you can read the dots you could look at a large collection of tunes like O'Neill and see the rise and fall patterns in the tunes.
Unfortunately, having a brilliant idea for a tune is only the first step in long and often hard process. It's not just the initial motif that's important, it's what is done with it and how counter-motifs are used.
It's a bit like writing a book, I suppose. It's no good having ideas if you haven't got the structure there to support and develop them. If you have a structure to work to it won't actually automate the tune writing process but it will help stop you from going off the rails or wasting time running up a blind alley.
Talking of writing books reminds me. I seem to remember that some centuries ago (in the session.org time-scale!) Will Harmon gave some very good advice in a discussion thread about composing tunes and illustrated his advice by actually composing a tune (or part of one) in the thread. Can anyone (Will, Zina?) identify that discussion?
Trevor
# Posted on January 8th 2005 by lazyhound
Re: Curious, how do YOU go about composing tunes?
Trevor, thanks for the reminder. That was a fun little exercise/experiment, and Armand might enjoy reading the thread, though my "exploded drawing" of composing a tune is far more structured than how a tune usually comes to me.
Anyway, it's here: http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display.php/1264/
# Posted on January 8th 2005 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: Curious, how do YOU go about composing tunes?
One thing you've got to bear in mind when composing tunes is that you're working on a small "canvas" - no more than 16 bars (excluding repeats) in which to set out the main theme, develop it, perhaps bring in a counter-theme, and bring it all to a satisfactory end in a balanced fashion. This is no small task, bearing in mind that for example, in literature, short stories and poetry such as sonnets are always difficult to write successfully, and in art , miniatures demand a different type of skill to that associated with the big canvas.
This is why a lot of preliminary study of how the established tunes are constructed (effectively, what makes them work) is so important. Writers, artists and composers in general all do this in their own disciplines so that they can be sure that they have had the training to create something worthwhile. One thing, though, about Irish trad music, is that you're dealing just with a single melodic line - no harmonies, counterpoints, or orchestrations to worry about - so that makes the task slightly easier. The worst thing is that you'll write a tune for the fiddle which is uncomfortable to play on the whistle or keyless flute, or vice versa, but it's always been like that.
Trevor
# Posted on January 8th 2005 by lazyhound
Re: Curious, how do YOU go about composing tunes?
Trev, don't rule out 32 bar tunes and the like. I prefer to let the muse (whatever s/he is) give me the length of the phrase and then go from there. Longer phrases usually beg for longer parts to contain them. And then you can always get into 3, 4, and 5 part tunes. Or more (Strayaway Child comes to mind).
And of course all this talk of structure matters most if you're trying to create a tune that fits (or only slightly stretches) the confines of a particular genre or tradition. If you don't care whether your tune will be accepted into the Irish tradition, say, and get played at sessions, then you're freer to let your imagination dictate the form.
Hmmm...so would it be possible to compose an authentically Irish sounding tango, or a ju ju Irish slip jig?
# Posted on January 8th 2005 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: Curious, how do YOU go about composing tunes?
Will, re your last paragraph, perhaps we can look forward to Dow coming up with the goods
Trevor
# Posted on January 9th 2005 by lazyhound
Re: Curious, how do YOU go about composing tunes?
I suspect Mark could do it, if anyone can.
# Posted on January 9th 2005 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: Curious, how do YOU go about composing tunes?
Well, the crocodile's song/tango in Johnny Cunningham's Peter and Wendy is pretty funny, Will, though not Irish exactly. ;)
# Posted on January 9th 2005 by Zina Lee
Re: Curious, how do YOU go about composing tunes?
i usually arrive upon ideas by mistake or by playing variations to tunes. I then try to play through the form of the soon-to-be-tune without stopping to see what I come up with. I dont stop to fix any notes or phrases until I think i am finished. This really helps your improvisational skills and trains your ear and fingers
cheers
# Posted on July 21st 2007 by gebbytoo
Re: Curious, how do YOU go about composing tunes?
One of the qualities of this music (least ways it was) is that new tunes take a while to filter in. They travel through many many people before they even approach the status of "standard". So "filter" is the ideal word.
Unfortunately, a lot of the time, the process fails, and we end up with a hell of a lot of s h i t tunes.
My question is that if you are familiar with the FACT that there are many hundreds of thousand of tunes already in the tradition and that out of that plethora, they is maybe a thousand or so tunes that are completely brilliant, why assume that you can write a tune that can possibly make its way into that hallowed top 1%?
# Posted on July 21st 2007 by llig leahcim