By Box I mean accordion and I know someone is just waiting to say "Why spend money when you could get a box for free?" or something of that nature. I have devised a new plan to saving for instruments I do 3 at a time since Box is in the next group (right now it is NSPs, Border Pipes, and Galician Pipes) I think it is time to figure out what brand and model I will be saving for this group will be UPs, Box, and a whole section devoted to tin whistles which will permanatly be whistle. So now to the real point of the post I want to spend between $500 US and $1100 US something that is good enough for professional use I am thinking of the top model Weltmeister I would like to know what is the best instrument I could in this price range I am talking about a B/C Box thought I should clarify.
Jack of all trades, master of none!, Why not try and perfect one instrument as this is the only way to really enjoy and get an understanding about Celtic music or indeed any type of music.
Honer, Polo Spranai, Cardín, Bartland Garlard, all have B/C tuned accordians and are all used by the big names.
I was giving advise and not knocking the wee lad. I really do think it is very important to learn to a good level first on one instrument first and to then branch out a little if needed. Jim, your looking forwards to his CD while I'm dreading his early sessions.
Unseen, I play a Mengascini B/C box which has a beautiful sound and action and looks good into the bargain (if you're into a natural wood rather than a pearly red or green hard finish). A friend at my session bought the same instrument brand new over the internet as a result of hearing mine, and I know the price is within the range you're thinking of. I'd recommend you check it out on the web.
Good luck!
Eno
P.S. I'm working on some software to help learn the box, and I know Gzeg (also on this site) has the basis of a tutorial website written - give him a prod and it might inspire him to finish it.
I'm curious about this plan of saving for three instruments at once - are you planning on acquiring them all at one go, or just saving for a box, or a set of pipes, or a set of whistles, depending which you come across a good deal on first? Or do you plan on one big day of instrument purchases? Getting one new instrument to me is like Christmas or a birthday, but better. Getting three would be too much for me.
Be that as it may, I know many Jacks with only one trade, who are still master of none. I generally find that learning a new instrument informs my playing on the others, even if I'll never gig on it or even bring it out to a session.
A little advice from your friendly local accordion teacher. A 2nd hand box of good quality and condition will be a much better buy than a new one. (20 years old isn't that old for an accordion.) In general, Italian boxes are better made than others, and have better quality reeds. Both Paolo Soprani and Hohner (German, of course!) made better instruments the further back in time you go (say 30-40 years). Unfortunately, many of these instruments have now suffered the ravages of time or ham fisted "repairers". Some have not, and many are restorable.
Try to find a player locally who can help you in your search. They do not necessarily need to be into Irish music, or even be a B/C player - even someone who is knowledgable about piano accordions might be of help.
And in case you read my profile and panic because I play piano accordion - I do know what I'm on about. I lived for many years with a button box player/repairer.
I've been enjoying this site for a couple of months now, so about time I contributed something!
Hey, there's a lot to be said for 'Jack of all Trades'. This was a common 'put down' when I was young!! And look where its got the world - people who specialise in this, that or t'other but who can't fix the simplest thing around the house - chuck it in the bin and buy another......... Don't know what thats got to do with music! I guess the important thing is to have the music in your head and soul - the instrument is only a means to express it so why not try several instruments.
I play the box myself for a few years now ... grand instrument but not everyone agrees and sometimes I am frustrated when trying to express an air on the box - can't manage to bend those notes to get that haunting effect. So, I also try the whistle and hey, some tunes come out much better.
Re boxes, I also use a Mengascini B/C, 2 stop .. I like the right the RHS on the whole but not quite sure about the quality of the basses and chords on the left. Lot depends on the type of tunes you like to play too, I think. Listen to as many recorded and local musicians as you can and then decide.
I am very happy with my fairly new (20 months old) Saltarelle Irish Bouebe accordion. It is B/C with swing tuning (just a hint of tremelo for character, without sounding old fashioned). The bass buttons are McComisky layout, a very practical set-up. There is only one stop, on the bass side, that removes the thirds from the chords, so they can do double duty as major or minor. Bought new, it is at the top of your price range, but I am very happy with it, and consider it money well spent.
AL Brown
I would recommend the Bouebe too. I've had one now for 4 months and I just can't put it down (literally, and figuratively!). You can pick up a second-hand one for ~£700 (there's one for sale just now on www.melodeon.net).
The older ones don't seem to have the stop to remove the thirds which is a shame, but not a show-stopper by any means. Apart from that, I can't fault it.
The Bouebes I know are too expensive I can't afford it. The Mengascinis look nice and at just over my top price but an extra $15 isn't too bad. Just so you guys know I have been playing Bassoon for 5 years (and remember that I am just about to turn 16) and is my best instrument and my favorite to play is the Pipes and for the 1 1/2 I have been playing I am really good but I feel that the more instruments the more fun I decided to pretty much give up on the strings because they do not really speak the language of my soul and I got tired of stretching out thin pieces of metal and the caluses and the CTS also I am not that good at Flute so it is not much fun to play and it takes too much effort (yet I love to play the big monster which is the GHB) Fiddle it was the bowing so I am really lovin' the Pipes the Bassoon and the Whistles. Jim you mentioned the CD which has 2 tracks doneand the mixer at the studio is broken so I am waiting for that before I can finish it also looks as if it might be more oriented towards the Pipes and Whistles (no pun intended) and I got some other ideas (like if I play Bassoon reading treblel clef like it is Bass clef it lines up with an F whistle and SSPs in C neither of which I own but hey I can dream). Now to explaining my plan I will buy each instrument when I have enough money to buy that one (so when I have enough for my Galician Pipes I will buy them that catagory will become something else and I will still be saving for the Borders and NSPs) this way I don't have to decide what I will save for first because I can be saving for three things at once.
Speaking of bass on the button box, if you decide you want to play bass on your box and your box doesn't have a mechanical stop for thirds in the bass chords so you can play bass well in minor keys, you can open the case, or have the case opened, and stop the airways to the thirds' reeds with masking tape or, as I did, with cork cut to fit exactly in the airways and flush with their openings. I play an early model Bouebe that does not have a mechanical stop and this has worked perfectly. If you buy a new instrument the dealer may do this upon request.The chords sound great in the major keys as well.
The thing about learning to play bass on the button box is that besides being helpful in setting a mood in a slow air or helping to drive rhythm in other tunes, when you can't find anyone else to play with you can always play with yourself, if you'll pardon the expression.
Hi Eon! Thanks for the plug. I am indeed still working on the box tutorial website - that was another of the Christmas projects that I haven't finished, but it's well under way. Stay tuned.
Unseen, if you're not made of money, you might look around for an older Hohner Black Dot, or maybe a Weltmeister. Neither of them are over the top expensive, and they can sound great. There are plenty of Irish players who use a Black Dot as their main box. The drawback to these boxes is the inefficiency of the keyboard more than anything else. One of the advantages of learning how to spot a good used box is that you have to learn a bit of the history and mechanics of the instrument, all of which will help when you sit down to learn the darn thing.
I agree with Kris that a used box is a good way to go, although I tend to want to stay away from piano accordion dealers/stores. PA *players* are another story - a finer group of people you couldn't find anywhere.
In my original post I say that a Weltmeister is what I was looking at but for the extra $215 I think it would be better for me to go with the Mengascini it seems like it is higher quality.
Thinking of buying a Box
Thinking of buying a Box
By Box I mean accordion and I know someone is just waiting to say "Why spend money when you could get a box for free?" or something of that nature. I have devised a new plan to saving for instruments I do 3 at a time since Box is in the next group (right now it is NSPs, Border Pipes, and Galician Pipes) I think it is time to figure out what brand and model I will be saving for this group will be UPs, Box, and a whole section devoted to tin whistles which will permanatly be whistle. So now to the real point of the post I want to spend between $500 US and $1100 US something that is good enough for professional use I am thinking of the top model Weltmeister I would like to know what is the best instrument I could in this price range I am talking about a B/C Box thought I should clarify.
# Posted on January 3rd 2005 by Unseen122
Re: Thinking of buying a Box
Jack of all trades, master of none!, Why not try and perfect one instrument as this is the only way to really enjoy and get an understanding about Celtic music or indeed any type of music.
Honer, Polo Spranai, Cardín, Bartland Garlard, all have B/C tuned accordians and are all used by the big names.
# Posted on January 3rd 2005 by compaqjohn
Re: Thinking of buying a Box
I was giving advise and not knocking the wee lad. I really do think it is very important to learn to a good level first on one instrument first and to then branch out a little if needed. Jim, your looking forwards to his CD while I'm dreading his early sessions.
# Posted on January 3rd 2005 by compaqjohn
Re: Thinking of buying a Box
Unseen, I play a Mengascini B/C box which has a beautiful sound and action and looks good into the bargain (if you're into a natural wood rather than a pearly red or green hard finish). A friend at my session bought the same instrument brand new over the internet as a result of hearing mine, and I know the price is within the range you're thinking of. I'd recommend you check it out on the web.
Good luck!
Eno
P.S. I'm working on some software to help learn the box, and I know Gzeg (also on this site) has the basis of a tutorial website written - give him a prod and it might inspire him to finish it.
# Posted on January 3rd 2005 by bc_box_player
Re: Thinking of buying a Box
I'm curious about this plan of saving for three instruments at once - are you planning on acquiring them all at one go, or just saving for a box, or a set of pipes, or a set of whistles, depending which you come across a good deal on first? Or do you plan on one big day of instrument purchases? Getting one new instrument to me is like Christmas or a birthday, but better. Getting three would be too much for me.
Be that as it may, I know many Jacks with only one trade, who are still master of none. I generally find that learning a new instrument informs my playing on the others, even if I'll never gig on it or even bring it out to a session.
# Posted on January 3rd 2005 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Thinking of buying a Box
A little advice from your friendly local accordion teacher. A 2nd hand box of good quality and condition will be a much better buy than a new one. (20 years old isn't that old for an accordion.) In general, Italian boxes are better made than others, and have better quality reeds. Both Paolo Soprani and Hohner (German, of course!) made better instruments the further back in time you go (say 30-40 years). Unfortunately, many of these instruments have now suffered the ravages of time or ham fisted "repairers". Some have not, and many are restorable.
Try to find a player locally who can help you in your search. They do not necessarily need to be into Irish music, or even be a B/C player - even someone who is knowledgable about piano accordions might be of help.
And in case you read my profile and panic because I play piano accordion - I do know what I'm on about. I lived for many years with a button box player/repairer.
Best of luck with your search!
# Posted on January 3rd 2005 by kris
Re: Thinking of buying a Box
I've been enjoying this site for a couple of months now, so about time I contributed something!
Hey, there's a lot to be said for 'Jack of all Trades'. This was a common 'put down' when I was young!! And look where its got the world - people who specialise in this, that or t'other but who can't fix the simplest thing around the house - chuck it in the bin and buy another......... Don't know what thats got to do with music! I guess the important thing is to have the music in your head and soul - the instrument is only a means to express it so why not try several instruments.
I play the box myself for a few years now ... grand instrument but not everyone agrees and sometimes I am frustrated when trying to express an air on the box - can't manage to bend those notes to get that haunting effect. So, I also try the whistle and hey, some tunes come out much better.
Re boxes, I also use a Mengascini B/C, 2 stop .. I like the right the RHS on the whole but not quite sure about the quality of the basses and chords on the left. Lot depends on the type of tunes you like to play too, I think. Listen to as many recorded and local musicians as you can and then decide.
# Posted on January 3rd 2005 by the wounded hussar
Re: Thinking of buying a Box
Welcome, wh! Love the name. (and the MacMahon recording of the air. )
# Posted on January 3rd 2005 by kris
Re: Thinking of buying a Box
I am very happy with my fairly new (20 months old) Saltarelle Irish Bouebe accordion. It is B/C with swing tuning (just a hint of tremelo for character, without sounding old fashioned). The bass buttons are McComisky layout, a very practical set-up. There is only one stop, on the bass side, that removes the thirds from the chords, so they can do double duty as major or minor. Bought new, it is at the top of your price range, but I am very happy with it, and consider it money well spent.
AL Brown
# Posted on January 3rd 2005 by AlBrown
Re: Thinking of buying a Box
I would recommend the Bouebe too. I've had one now for 4 months and I just can't put it down (literally, and figuratively!). You can pick up a second-hand one for ~£700 (there's one for sale just now on www.melodeon.net).
The older ones don't seem to have the stop to remove the thirds which is a shame, but not a show-stopper by any means. Apart from that, I can't fault it.
Good luck!
# Posted on January 3rd 2005 by birdman5
Re: Thinking of buying a Box
The Bouebes I know are too expensive I can't afford it. The Mengascinis look nice and at just over my top price but an extra $15 isn't too bad. Just so you guys know I have been playing Bassoon for 5 years (and remember that I am just about to turn 16) and is my best instrument and my favorite to play is the Pipes and for the 1 1/2 I have been playing I am really good but I feel that the more instruments the more fun I decided to pretty much give up on the strings because they do not really speak the language of my soul and I got tired of stretching out thin pieces of metal and the caluses and the CTS also I am not that good at Flute so it is not much fun to play and it takes too much effort (yet I love to play the big monster which is the GHB) Fiddle it was the bowing so I am really lovin' the Pipes the Bassoon and the Whistles. Jim you mentioned the CD which has 2 tracks doneand the mixer at the studio is broken so I am waiting for that before I can finish it also looks as if it might be more oriented towards the Pipes and Whistles (no pun intended) and I got some other ideas (like if I play Bassoon reading treblel clef like it is Bass clef it lines up with an F whistle and SSPs in C neither of which I own but hey I can dream). Now to explaining my plan I will buy each instrument when I have enough money to buy that one (so when I have enough for my Galician Pipes I will buy them that catagory will become something else and I will still be saving for the Borders and NSPs) this way I don't have to decide what I will save for first because I can be saving for three things at once.
I think this is a new record for my longest post.
# Posted on January 4th 2005 by Unseen122
Re: Thinking of buying a Box
Speaking of bass on the button box, if you decide you want to play bass on your box and your box doesn't have a mechanical stop for thirds in the bass chords so you can play bass well in minor keys, you can open the case, or have the case opened, and stop the airways to the thirds' reeds with masking tape or, as I did, with cork cut to fit exactly in the airways and flush with their openings. I play an early model Bouebe that does not have a mechanical stop and this has worked perfectly. If you buy a new instrument the dealer may do this upon request.The chords sound great in the major keys as well.
The thing about learning to play bass on the button box is that besides being helpful in setting a mood in a slow air or helping to drive rhythm in other tunes, when you can't find anyone else to play with you can always play with yourself, if you'll pardon the expression.
# Posted on January 4th 2005 by joesmith
Re: Thinking of buying a Box
Hi Eon! Thanks for the plug. I am indeed still working on the box tutorial website - that was another of the Christmas projects that I haven't finished, but it's well under way. Stay tuned.
Unseen, if you're not made of money, you might look around for an older Hohner Black Dot, or maybe a Weltmeister. Neither of them are over the top expensive, and they can sound great. There are plenty of Irish players who use a Black Dot as their main box. The drawback to these boxes is the inefficiency of the keyboard more than anything else. One of the advantages of learning how to spot a good used box is that you have to learn a bit of the history and mechanics of the instrument, all of which will help when you sit down to learn the darn thing.
I agree with Kris that a used box is a good way to go, although I tend to want to stay away from piano accordion dealers/stores. PA *players* are another story - a finer group of people you couldn't find anywhere.
# Posted on January 4th 2005 by Gzeg
Re: Thinking of buying a Box
In my original post I say that a Weltmeister is what I was looking at but for the extra $215 I think it would be better for me to go with the Mengascini it seems like it is higher quality.
# Posted on January 4th 2005 by Unseen122