Can anyone identify the 2 new tunes just submitted?
Can anyone identify the 2 new tunes just submitted?
Hi all...
This is Kevin Kiley.
I just submitted 2 new 'Unknown' tunes to the database
and I am really hoping that someone will recognize
them. I have been playing these 2 tunes in a 'round robin'
with 'Tripping Up The Stairs' for quite some time but
I have never known the names of the other 2 tunes and
it really bothers me that I am playing any ITM without
knowing the real names of the tunes.
I tried to just paste the ABC notation for the 2 'Unknown'
tunes into a discussion message last night but it was
rejected because I forgot that ABC notation is not allowed
in this discussion area. It was suggested in the rejection
notice I got that I simply submit them as 'Unknown' tunes
and keep the discussion forum free of ABC notation.
So I have done just that.
I added them both as 'Gan Ainm' as instructed by the
submissions page.
In reality... the 2 tunes are most probably somewhere
in the database already so what I would really like to
do is get them identified so I can REMOVE the submissions
just made. I was hoping to be able to identify them BEFORE
having to submit them for that very reason. If the tunes
are already there somewhere then there is no reason for
having duplicates around cluttering up the database.
Just for gags I also fired up a 'free' website which contains
both the ABC notation AND 2 MIDI files for these 'Unknown'
ITM tunes so that anyone who wants to can just give a
quick listen to the 2 tunes to see if they can identify
either one, or both.
The MIDI files on this 'free' website are the same ones
submitted to the local database along with the ABC
notation.
Here is a 'snaphsot' of the home page minus
the ABC file(s) since the inclusion of ABC format
files is not allowed in a 'discussion' message here
at 'www.thesession.org'...
This 'cut and paste' from the home page for the site
has some additional information about the tunes that
might be relevant here on this forum which is why I
just 'pasted' the snapshot into this message...
[snip]
Irish Traditional Music
This is a brand new website created 05/12/02 and it is currently
under construction. It will feature links and information regarding
ITM ( Irish Traditional Music ).
In the meantime... if anyone can identify the 2 Irish fiddle
tunes shown farther down on this page ( in standard .ABC format )
then please be so kind as to send an email to me, Kevin Kiley,
at tokiley@aol.com ,and let me know the name(s)...
There are a number of ways you can simply 'listen' to these tunes
right now...
1. Just 'cut-and-paste' the actual ABC file right from this web
page and save it to a filename of your choice with an extension
of '.abc' and then use any ABC format player to listen to the tunes.
2. You can simply DOWNLOAD the same ABC file and save it to your
system and then call it into any standard ABC format player.
To download the file ( called NONAMES.ABC ) just click HERE.
3. There is a MIDI sound file for each of the two tunes which
you can either download or listen to right now by clicking the
following links...
Listen to Unknown1.mid right now...
Listen to Unknown2.mid right now...
When you click either one of the MIDI sound file links above
you will have the option of either 'Saving it to disk' or
listening to it right away by checking the radio button that
says 'Open this file from its current location'.
Both of the MIDI sound files are VERY SMALL and should either
download or load straight into your MIDI player almost instantly.
By the way... I play these 2 tunes all the time in a
'round-robin' with 'Tripping Up The Stairs' because, well,
they just go together so well. As the comments in the ABC
format file below state, however, the reason I don't know
the names of the tunes is that I learned them from an Irish
fiddler at a jam session in the middle of the night somewhere
near Mountain View, Arkansas, and by the time I could turn
around and ask the fellow his name or the names of the tunes
he had vanished.
I am tired of people coming up to me at jam sessions when I
play these tunes and saying "Wow... great trio of Irish tunes...
what are they called?" and only knowing the name of one of
the three. ( Tripping Up The Stairs ).
More importantly, however, is that it bothers me that I am
playing any ITM without knowing the real names of the tunes...
so if anyone can help me out here by giving a listen to these
tunes and identifying them I would really appreciate it.
Thanks!... Kevin Kiley - Email: tokiley@aol.com
Here are the 2 'Unknown' Irish Fiddle Tunes in ABC format...
[ ABC format listing deleted from this cut-and-paste but
available on the actual page ]
[snip]
I thought if any group could identify this ITM it would
be the fine folks that participate in this GREAT forum!
...so whether you grab the tunes from the local database or
just visit the website to 'listen' to them... please respond
to this discussion if you can identify either one of them.
Re: Can anyone identify the 2 new tunes just submitted?
If anyone knows the names of the tunes, please post them with the relevant tune. There is a "do you know this tune by another name?" link with each tune.
Kevin, if you're looking to identify a tune you don't know the name of and you think it might already be in The Session, you can try the "advanced" search under "Tunes". This lets you input snippets of ABC notation and tries to match them up to any tunes in the database. It isn't foolproof but it can work for little snippets of tunes; the opening bar, for instance.
Re: Can anyone identify the 2 new tunes just submitted?
Hi Jeremy...
Thanks for the fast reply and the advice!
I DID try your suggestion but I am afraid that my expertise
with ABC is not that good and I probably didn't get a good
match because of the way I have notated the songs. The
2 ABC's I submitted sounds like the tunes themselves but
I am not at all sure that my notation would match someone
else's version of the same tune(s). ( With/without triplet
notations and such ).
Maybe this discussion thread is really going to end up being
about how to really prevent duplicate tunes from ending up
in the database. Your submissions page has the reminder on
it that the submitter should make sure the tune doesn't
already exist but without being sure if the Advanced Search
is REALLY finding a match then perhaps the best way to
do this is what I am simply trying to do here... just ask the
good folks of the forum to take a moment of their time and
see if anyone 'knows this tune by another name' BEFORE
it goes into the database.
Your submissions form is already printing the phrase
"There is already another tune by the name of Gan Ainm"
but, unfortunately, the PHP script is printing the same
phrase or each and every instance of "Gan Ainm". That
means the form itself is already 'filling up' with about 20
messages and if the 'Gan Ainm' song title list gets any
bigger it's going to start messing up the submissions form
itself.
At the very least... I think the PHP script needs to realize
that if it has already printed the "There is already another
tune named Gan Ainm" phrase once then it doesn't need
to keep repeating it and this will prevent problems once
the 'Unknown' song list gets any bigger.
I am not trying to cause any trouble here.
I think I am making a simple request and, with the addition
of the separate web page at http://itm.wtcsites.com it's
as easy as it can be for someone to just take a second
and see if they know these tunes.
In my part of the world ( The Ozark Mountains ) there are
a LOT of Irish tunes floating around that no one seems to
know the name of and I think that's a shame. I, myself,
don't feel comfortable knowing I am playing ITM without
knowing the names of the tunes.
Thanks again for the fast reply.
BTW: Did you listen to either tune? Do you know either one?
Re: Can anyone identify the 2 new tunes just submitted?
FOLLOW UP
I just did a more extensive search for both tunes using
even absurdly small snippets of notes and while there were
some matches on certain half-measures either I am still
not entering the right ABC to match what's in the database
or the tunes are, in fact, not already there.
Whether they are there or not... I'd still like to get them
identified. They are cool tunes and if they are NOT in the
database then they should be but with the REAL NAMES
so people can locate them if they want.
Re: Can anyone identify the 2 new tunes just submitted?
Kevin I can't name them for you, although both are very familiar.
What I can tell you is that the first is a polka that would be better written in 2/4. I think I used to know its name years ago! The Chieftains recorded it - if I'm not mistaken on Chieftains 8 as part of a set that included "If I had Maggie in the Wood" It's also (also if I'm not mistaken), on an LP by the late Julia Clifford and her son Billy. Which I will dig out and try to find the track name for you.
But you can probably find the Chieftains track listing somewhere on the net. It was played by Sean Keane immediately prior to "If I had Maggie." It's a very fine polka IMO.
The second tune is a slip jig and hence should be written in 9/8 time. I have a feeling this is an old Chieftains number too. If I remember what it is I'll post back.
PS A heck of a lot of polkas don't have "real" names - or indeed any names at all. I wouldn't worry too much about it if I were you!
Re: Can anyone identify the 2 new tunes just submitted?
The second one is kind of reminiscent of...is it Boys of Ballisadare I'm thinking of? Related, vaguely, I suppose...or is it Barney Bralligan I'm thinking of?
Re: Can anyone identify the 2 new tunes just submitted?
Hi all...
Kevin Kiley again...
Thanks for the replies!
I really appreciate it!
Brother Steve wrote...
> What I can tell you is that the first is a polka that would be better written in 2/4.
Roger that... someone actually already did this in the tunes
database ( I have no idea who ) and the tune still SOUNDS
the way it should and they also changed the 'type' already
to say 'polka'. There is suddenly some cross-wired files,
however, and the sheetmusic and the MIDI in the database
don't match the ABC but the ABC itself has been
rewritten since yesterday but still sounds AOK.
See UPDATE section down below for more about the
tune(s) as they currently sit in the database. Whoever
re-wrote it didn't seem to know the title, either.
> Brother Steve also wrote...
> ...if I'm not mistaken on Chieftains 8 as part of a set that
> included "If I had Maggie in the Wood"
Good God, man, that's the weirdest thing!
The fellow that actually showed me this tune at a jam
in the middle of the night in Mountain View, Arkansas,
had actually just played 'Maggie in the Woods' right
BEFORE he played this one and I will bet that is NOT
just a coincidence. I knew 'Maggie' myself and I played
a round with him and otherwise sang ( If I had Maggie in
the woods I'd keep her ther 'till mornin'... etc. )... then
we launched into these other tunes and I added 'Trippin
Up The Stairs' and it all fit together real good. Then
he disappeared. I've been playing 'The trio' ever since
and have never know the names/origins of the tunes.
I think you must have hit on it. I'll bet the guy was just
running through tunes from the same album. I've never
had that one, myself, so I am not sure. I will go after
it ASAP and check it out.
> Brother Steve also wrote...
> The second tune is a slip jig and hence should be written
> in 9/8 time. I have a feeling this is an old Chieftains
> number too. If I remember what it is I'll post back.
Yes... the 'other' tune has also been 'rewritten' in the
submission database to reflect this. Still sounds AOK
and notation is probably now much more correct than
my first 'hack' at it. See UPDATE section below.
Perhaps this 'other' tune is from the same darn album?
Maybe the guy who showed me these tunes was just
running through one side of a Chieftains album if he
was playing 'Maggie' and such during that jam.
> Brother Steve also wrote...
> PS A heck of a lot of polkas don't have "real" names -
> or indeed any names at all. I wouldn't worry too much
> about it if I were you!
Despite what the verbosity above and below might indicate
I am not actually losing any sleep over any of this but it
DOES bother me that I am playing an ITM trio that people
really seem to enjoy and I don't know the names of 2
of the tunes. If there is no name, then that's one thing,
but if there is then I want to know what it ( they ) is (are).
It's only right.
> Zina wrote...
> The second one is kind of reminiscent of...is it Boys of
> Ballisadare I'm thinking of? Related, vaguely, I suppose...
> or is it Barney Bralligan I'm thinking of?
Hmm... don't know. Will check it out.
The MIDI file for that one is still WAY SLOW compared to
the way I learned it and play it. You can/should really rock
with this one and the bow-hair should be flying.
What I usually do is pump this one ( Now properly identified
as a slip-jig ) up on tempo until ( as we say here in Arkansas )
the 'hay is flying out of the barn' and then that sudden 'drop' in
the fourth measure of the first part from 'B' to 'E' ( It's not a
mistake ) really pulls your head to one side and then you
suddenly drop into 'Trippin Up The Stairs' ( at the same
hair-bustin' tempo ) like it grew onto that F note in the last measure and now you are COOKIN'.
Sorry... got carried away. I really love ITM.
Thanks again for the help, folks. I think we are
getting there.
The 2 'Unknown' tunes just submitted have been
mysteriously 're-worked' in the database but the
rewrites appear accurate and the tunes still
SOUND the way they should... but for anyone that
hits the 'New' tab to check them out you should
be aware that there seem to be few new problems
with some 'cross-wired' files in the 'New tunes'
section...
* First 'Unknown' tune submitted...
( Shows up as the second 'Gan Ainm' listing in the
NEW TUNES list since it was submitted prior to
the other one and got 'pushed down on the stack' ).
At the following URL where the tune's TAB page appears...
...clicking on the ABC tab which 'displays' the ABC
shows the correct, original tune submitted. The
Meter (M has been changed by someone to 2/4 time
and the Tune type (R has been changed to 'polka'
and this actually now seems more correct than the
orginal submission. To tell you the truth... I wasn't
sure what it was. Someone also changed the ABC notation
from the original but if you 'cut-and-paste' the ABC
file into an ABC player the tune still SOUNDS correct.
It seems, however, that whoever changed the details and
the ABC file did not recognize the tune so there still
is no TITLE.
However... there are now problems with the rest of
the submission.
1. The 'New tunes' URL does not reflect the changes
that have been made. It still says it's a 'reel'.
Is there any way to get the 'New tunes' page to reflect
the changes made to 'tune type' or should the original
submission be deleted and 're-submitted' with the
correct type?
2. The 'Sheetmusic' TAB shows the WRONG music for
this tune. It does not match the ABC and appears to
be the GIF file for the 'other' tune submitted.
See below about the cross-wired files on the
download page.
3. The original comments I posted have disappeared.
Were they deemed irrelevant and erased on purpose or
did I forget to do something? I thought I followed
all the 'steps'. When the tune appeared under the 'New'
section and I accessed it I was able to 'add comments'
so I did so but they are now nowhere to be seen.
4. The Download page has the WRONG FILES attached
to it for this tune. It is listing GIF and MIDI files
called 'ganainm11.gif' and 'ganainm11.mid' which
are actually the sheet music and the MIDI file for
the OTHER 'Unknown' tune that was submitted at the
same time and NOT this one.
5. HOWEVER... if you click the 'Download ABC file'
button on the same download page it sends a
different filename 'ganainm.abc' without the '11'
suffix and this file is, in fact, the right ABC
for this particular tune and matches what appears
if you click the 'ABC' tab next to 'details'.
So it looks like the ABC is okay for this tune in
both places where it can be accessed but the GIF
and MIDI got cross-wired and are for the OTHER tune
instead.
* Second 'Unknown' tune submitted...
( Shows up as FIRST 'Gan Ainm' in the NEW TUNES list
since it was submitted right AFTER the other one. )
As above... the ABC has been re-written by
someone and the Meter and the 'tune type'
changed but everything still sounds correct.
It still sounds the way it should and I was
not quite sure about the 'type' on this one,
either, so thanks to whoever re-wrote the
submission.
Clicking the ABC tab shows a 'good' version
of the tune and the 'Download ABC file' button
on the download page gives the same, good,
ABC file by the name of 'ganainm.abc'.
The other 'links' on the Download page ( the
MIDI and GIF downloads ) also give the 'right'
thing but the name(s) for those downloads
are different from the ABC file. You get
'ganainm11.gif' and 'ganainm11.mid' with an
'11' suffix instead of just 'ganainm.???'
So other than the fact that the filenames use
different prefix/suffix and the orginal comments
for this submission have, like the other one,
disappeared... all looks AOK with this one.
Ok... now... ( heavy sigh ) back to the real point
of all this...
Does anyone KNOW THESE TUNES? ( Names?? )
I did a NEW site search since the ABC notation
is now totally different but alas, still no hits
which means either the tunes aren't in the
database or, if they are, the ABC is still
too different for a good match.
Until the cross-matching on the GIF and MIDI
files is resolved you can still simply 'hear'
both tunes by just popping off to this website
for a second and clicking the 2 'Listen' links...
Re: Can anyone identify the 2 new tunes just submitted?
Hi Kevin,
The first one is on Chieftains in China, too, but it's just tacked onto the front of If I had Maggie in the Wood (as Brother Steve already pointed out). I haven't got my copy with me or I'd check to see if they name it on that album.
The second one is in on The Chieftains 7 album as "Hedigan's Fancy" (Track 3). Sounds like a slip jig to me. Check it out on Amazon, they have a sound clip.
Re: Can anyone identify the 2 new tunes just submitted?
Kevin, there's nothing mysterious about the correction of the ABC notation: it was obvious that the tunes were a polka and a slip jig, respectively. I edited the ABC notation and the tune info to reflect this.
As for the .gif and .midi files not matching, I've fixed that now. The problem occurs when two tunes of the same name are submitted at the same time.
Re: Can anyone identify the 2 new tunes just submitted?
On the Gael-Linn LP "Ceol as Sliabh Luachra" by Julia Clifford and her son Billy, the polka is called "The Five Servants".
It is also listed under that name in Henrik Norbeck's index of ABC tunes, as well as "Bruise Hill" and "The Ballybunnion Polka".
BTW Julia Clifford, who died a few years ago, was a fiddler from the Sliabh Luachra area. She and her more better-known brother Dennis Murphy were among the last pupils of the famous Padraig O'Keeffe.
Re: Can anyone identify the 2 new tunes just submitted?
Kevin, now that you have a name for the polka, you can change the details for that tune. Just go to the page with that tune (make sure you're logged on with your username and password) and click on "Edit these details".
As the person who submitted the tune, you can change any of the tunes details: name, tune type, key signature and even the ABC notation. The sheetmusic and midi file, however, won't change.
Strike the Gay Harp - some of it is missing. The rest of the tune is available in Oneil's. The tune was recorded on an early Cheiftans recording. Have fun and enjoy the rest of the tune.
Can anyone identify the 2 new tunes just submitted?
Can anyone identify the 2 new tunes just submitted?
Hi all...
This is Kevin Kiley.
I just submitted 2 new 'Unknown' tunes to the database
and I am really hoping that someone will recognize
them. I have been playing these 2 tunes in a 'round robin'
with 'Tripping Up The Stairs' for quite some time but
I have never known the names of the other 2 tunes and
it really bothers me that I am playing any ITM without
knowing the real names of the tunes.
I tried to just paste the ABC notation for the 2 'Unknown'
tunes into a discussion message last night but it was
rejected because I forgot that ABC notation is not allowed
in this discussion area. It was suggested in the rejection
notice I got that I simply submit them as 'Unknown' tunes
and keep the discussion forum free of ABC notation.
So I have done just that.
I added them both as 'Gan Ainm' as instructed by the
submissions page.
In reality... the 2 tunes are most probably somewhere
in the database already so what I would really like to
do is get them identified so I can REMOVE the submissions
just made. I was hoping to be able to identify them BEFORE
having to submit them for that very reason. If the tunes
are already there somewhere then there is no reason for
having duplicates around cluttering up the database.
Just for gags I also fired up a 'free' website which contains
both the ABC notation AND 2 MIDI files for these 'Unknown'
ITM tunes so that anyone who wants to can just give a
quick listen to the 2 tunes to see if they can identify
either one, or both.
The MIDI files on this 'free' website are the same ones
submitted to the local database along with the ABC
notation.
Just go to...
http://itm.wtcsites.com
OR
http://www.itm.wtcsites.com
Here is a 'snaphsot' of the home page minus
the ABC file(s) since the inclusion of ABC format
files is not allowed in a 'discussion' message here
at 'www.thesession.org'...
This 'cut and paste' from the home page for the site
has some additional information about the tunes that
might be relevant here on this forum which is why I
just 'pasted' the snapshot into this message...
[snip]
Irish Traditional Music
This is a brand new website created 05/12/02 and it is currently
under construction. It will feature links and information regarding
ITM ( Irish Traditional Music ).
In the meantime... if anyone can identify the 2 Irish fiddle
tunes shown farther down on this page ( in standard .ABC format )
then please be so kind as to send an email to me, Kevin Kiley,
at tokiley@aol.com ,and let me know the name(s)...
There are a number of ways you can simply 'listen' to these tunes
right now...
1. Just 'cut-and-paste' the actual ABC file right from this web
page and save it to a filename of your choice with an extension
of '.abc' and then use any ABC format player to listen to the tunes.
2. You can simply DOWNLOAD the same ABC file and save it to your
system and then call it into any standard ABC format player.
To download the file ( called NONAMES.ABC ) just click HERE.
3. There is a MIDI sound file for each of the two tunes which
you can either download or listen to right now by clicking the
following links...
Listen to Unknown1.mid right now...
Listen to Unknown2.mid right now...
When you click either one of the MIDI sound file links above
you will have the option of either 'Saving it to disk' or
listening to it right away by checking the radio button that
says 'Open this file from its current location'.
Both of the MIDI sound files are VERY SMALL and should either
download or load straight into your MIDI player almost instantly.
By the way... I play these 2 tunes all the time in a
'round-robin' with 'Tripping Up The Stairs' because, well,
they just go together so well. As the comments in the ABC
format file below state, however, the reason I don't know
the names of the tunes is that I learned them from an Irish
fiddler at a jam session in the middle of the night somewhere
near Mountain View, Arkansas, and by the time I could turn
around and ask the fellow his name or the names of the tunes
he had vanished.
I am tired of people coming up to me at jam sessions when I
play these tunes and saying "Wow... great trio of Irish tunes...
what are they called?" and only knowing the name of one of
the three. ( Tripping Up The Stairs ).
More importantly, however, is that it bothers me that I am
playing any ITM without knowing the real names of the tunes...
so if anyone can help me out here by giving a listen to these
tunes and identifying them I would really appreciate it.
Thanks!... Kevin Kiley - Email: tokiley@aol.com
Here are the 2 'Unknown' Irish Fiddle Tunes in ABC format...
[ ABC format listing deleted from this cut-and-paste but
available on the actual page ]
[snip]
I thought if any group could identify this ITM it would
be the fine folks that participate in this GREAT forum!
...so whether you grab the tunes from the local database or
just visit the website to 'listen' to them... please respond
to this discussion if you can identify either one of them.
I really appreciate it.
Yours...
Kevin Kiley
# Posted on May 12th 2002 by kiley
Re: Can anyone identify the 2 new tunes just submitted?
If anyone knows the names of the tunes, please post them with the relevant tune. There is a "do you know this tune by another name?" link with each tune.
Kevin, if you're looking to identify a tune you don't know the name of and you think it might already be in The Session, you can try the "advanced" search under "Tunes". This lets you input snippets of ABC notation and tries to match them up to any tunes in the database. It isn't foolproof but it can work for little snippets of tunes; the opening bar, for instance.
# Posted on May 12th 2002 by Jeremy
Re: Can anyone identify the 2 new tunes just submitted?
Hi Jeremy...
Thanks for the fast reply and the advice!
I DID try your suggestion but I am afraid that my expertise
with ABC is not that good and I probably didn't get a good
match because of the way I have notated the songs. The
2 ABC's I submitted sounds like the tunes themselves but
I am not at all sure that my notation would match someone
else's version of the same tune(s). ( With/without triplet
notations and such ).
Maybe this discussion thread is really going to end up being
about how to really prevent duplicate tunes from ending up
in the database. Your submissions page has the reminder on
it that the submitter should make sure the tune doesn't
already exist but without being sure if the Advanced Search
is REALLY finding a match then perhaps the best way to
do this is what I am simply trying to do here... just ask the
good folks of the forum to take a moment of their time and
see if anyone 'knows this tune by another name' BEFORE
it goes into the database.
Your submissions form is already printing the phrase
"There is already another tune by the name of Gan Ainm"
but, unfortunately, the PHP script is printing the same
phrase or each and every instance of "Gan Ainm". That
means the form itself is already 'filling up' with about 20
messages and if the 'Gan Ainm' song title list gets any
bigger it's going to start messing up the submissions form
itself.
At the very least... I think the PHP script needs to realize
that if it has already printed the "There is already another
tune named Gan Ainm" phrase once then it doesn't need
to keep repeating it and this will prevent problems once
the 'Unknown' song list gets any bigger.
I am not trying to cause any trouble here.
I think I am making a simple request and, with the addition
of the separate web page at http://itm.wtcsites.com it's
as easy as it can be for someone to just take a second
and see if they know these tunes.
In my part of the world ( The Ozark Mountains ) there are
a LOT of Irish tunes floating around that no one seems to
know the name of and I think that's a shame. I, myself,
don't feel comfortable knowing I am playing ITM without
knowing the names of the tunes.
Thanks again for the fast reply.
BTW: Did you listen to either tune? Do you know either one?
Yours...
Kevin
# Posted on May 12th 2002 by kiley
Re: Can anyone identify the 2 new tunes just submitted?
FOLLOW UP
I just did a more extensive search for both tunes using
even absurdly small snippets of notes and while there were
some matches on certain half-measures either I am still
not entering the right ABC to match what's in the database
or the tunes are, in fact, not already there.
Whether they are there or not... I'd still like to get them
identified. They are cool tunes and if they are NOT in the
database then they should be but with the REAL NAMES
so people can locate them if they want.
Thanks again...
Yours...
Kevin Kiley
# Posted on May 12th 2002 by kiley
Re: Can anyone identify the 2 new tunes just submitted?
Kevin I can't name them for you, although both are very familiar.
What I can tell you is that the first is a polka that would be better written in 2/4. I think I used to know its name years ago! The Chieftains recorded it - if I'm not mistaken on Chieftains 8 as part of a set that included "If I had Maggie in the Wood" It's also (also if I'm not mistaken), on an LP by the late Julia Clifford and her son Billy. Which I will dig out and try to find the track name for you.
But you can probably find the Chieftains track listing somewhere on the net. It was played by Sean Keane immediately prior to "If I had Maggie." It's a very fine polka IMO.
The second tune is a slip jig and hence should be written in 9/8 time. I have a feeling this is an old Chieftains number too. If I remember what it is I'll post back.
PS A heck of a lot of polkas don't have "real" names - or indeed any names at all. I wouldn't worry too much about it if I were you!
# Posted on May 12th 2002 by Jeeves Tones
Re: Can anyone identify the 2 new tunes just submitted?
The second one is kind of reminiscent of...is it Boys of Ballisadare I'm thinking of? Related, vaguely, I suppose...or is it Barney Bralligan I'm thinking of?
Zina
# Posted on May 12th 2002 by Zina Lee
Re: Can anyone identify the 2 new tunes just submitted?
Hi all...
Kevin Kiley again...
Thanks for the replies!
I really appreciate it!
Brother Steve wrote...
> What I can tell you is that the first is a polka that would be better written in 2/4.
Roger that... someone actually already did this in the tunes
database ( I have no idea who ) and the tune still SOUNDS
the way it should and they also changed the 'type' already
to say 'polka'. There is suddenly some cross-wired files,
however, and the sheetmusic and the MIDI in the database
don't match the ABC but the ABC itself has been
rewritten since yesterday but still sounds AOK.
See UPDATE section down below for more about the
tune(s) as they currently sit in the database. Whoever
re-wrote it didn't seem to know the title, either.
> Brother Steve also wrote...
> ...if I'm not mistaken on Chieftains 8 as part of a set that
> included "If I had Maggie in the Wood"
Good God, man, that's the weirdest thing!
The fellow that actually showed me this tune at a jam
in the middle of the night in Mountain View, Arkansas,
had actually just played 'Maggie in the Woods' right
BEFORE he played this one and I will bet that is NOT
just a coincidence. I knew 'Maggie' myself and I played
a round with him and otherwise sang ( If I had Maggie in
the woods I'd keep her ther 'till mornin'... etc. )... then
we launched into these other tunes and I added 'Trippin
Up The Stairs' and it all fit together real good. Then
he disappeared. I've been playing 'The trio' ever since
and have never know the names/origins of the tunes.
I think you must have hit on it. I'll bet the guy was just
running through tunes from the same album. I've never
had that one, myself, so I am not sure. I will go after
it ASAP and check it out.
> Brother Steve also wrote...
> The second tune is a slip jig and hence should be written
> in 9/8 time. I have a feeling this is an old Chieftains
> number too. If I remember what it is I'll post back.
Yes... the 'other' tune has also been 'rewritten' in the
submission database to reflect this. Still sounds AOK
and notation is probably now much more correct than
my first 'hack' at it. See UPDATE section below.
Perhaps this 'other' tune is from the same darn album?
Maybe the guy who showed me these tunes was just
running through one side of a Chieftains album if he
was playing 'Maggie' and such during that jam.
> Brother Steve also wrote...
> PS A heck of a lot of polkas don't have "real" names -
> or indeed any names at all. I wouldn't worry too much
> about it if I were you!
Despite what the verbosity above and below might indicate
I am not actually losing any sleep over any of this but it
DOES bother me that I am playing an ITM trio that people
really seem to enjoy and I don't know the names of 2
of the tunes. If there is no name, then that's one thing,
but if there is then I want to know what it ( they ) is (are).
It's only right.
> Zina wrote...
> The second one is kind of reminiscent of...is it Boys of
> Ballisadare I'm thinking of? Related, vaguely, I suppose...
> or is it Barney Bralligan I'm thinking of?
Hmm... don't know. Will check it out.
The MIDI file for that one is still WAY SLOW compared to
the way I learned it and play it. You can/should really rock
with this one and the bow-hair should be flying.
What I usually do is pump this one ( Now properly identified
as a slip-jig ) up on tempo until ( as we say here in Arkansas )
the 'hay is flying out of the barn' and then that sudden 'drop' in
the fourth measure of the first part from 'B' to 'E' ( It's not a
mistake ) really pulls your head to one side and then you
suddenly drop into 'Trippin Up The Stairs' ( at the same
hair-bustin' tempo ) like it grew onto that F note in the last measure and now you are COOKIN'.
Sorry... got carried away. I really love ITM.
Thanks again for the help, folks. I think we are
getting there.
Later...
Kevin
# Posted on May 12th 2002 by kiley
UPDATE 05/12/02 10:00 PM CST USA
This is just a FYI insert into the thread...
The 2 'Unknown' tunes just submitted have been
mysteriously 're-worked' in the database but the
rewrites appear accurate and the tunes still
SOUND the way they should... but for anyone that
hits the 'New' tab to check them out you should
be aware that there seem to be few new problems
with some 'cross-wired' files in the 'New tunes'
section...
* First 'Unknown' tune submitted...
( Shows up as the second 'Gan Ainm' listing in the
NEW TUNES list since it was submitted prior to
the other one and got 'pushed down on the stack' ).
At the following URL where the tune's TAB page appears...
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display.php/677
...clicking on the ABC tab which 'displays' the ABC
shows the correct, original tune submitted. The
Meter (M
and the Tune type (R
and this actually now seems more correct than the
orginal submission. To tell you the truth... I wasn't
sure what it was. Someone also changed the ABC notation
from the original but if you 'cut-and-paste' the ABC
file into an ABC player the tune still SOUNDS correct.
It seems, however, that whoever changed the details and
the ABC file did not recognize the tune so there still
is no TITLE.
However... there are now problems with the rest of
the submission.
1. The 'New tunes' URL does not reflect the changes
that have been made. It still says it's a 'reel'.
Is there any way to get the 'New tunes' page to reflect
the changes made to 'tune type' or should the original
submission be deleted and 're-submitted' with the
correct type?
2. The 'Sheetmusic' TAB shows the WRONG music for
this tune. It does not match the ABC and appears to
be the GIF file for the 'other' tune submitted.
See below about the cross-wired files on the
download page.
3. The original comments I posted have disappeared.
Were they deemed irrelevant and erased on purpose or
did I forget to do something? I thought I followed
all the 'steps'. When the tune appeared under the 'New'
section and I accessed it I was able to 'add comments'
so I did so but they are now nowhere to be seen.
4. The Download page has the WRONG FILES attached
to it for this tune. It is listing GIF and MIDI files
called 'ganainm11.gif' and 'ganainm11.mid' which
are actually the sheet music and the MIDI file for
the OTHER 'Unknown' tune that was submitted at the
same time and NOT this one.
5. HOWEVER... if you click the 'Download ABC file'
button on the same download page it sends a
different filename 'ganainm.abc' without the '11'
suffix and this file is, in fact, the right ABC
for this particular tune and matches what appears
if you click the 'ABC' tab next to 'details'.
So it looks like the ABC is okay for this tune in
both places where it can be accessed but the GIF
and MIDI got cross-wired and are for the OTHER tune
instead.
* Second 'Unknown' tune submitted...
( Shows up as FIRST 'Gan Ainm' in the NEW TUNES list
since it was submitted right AFTER the other one. )
URL for this 'second' submission is...
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display.php/678
As above... the ABC has been re-written by
someone and the Meter and the 'tune type'
changed but everything still sounds correct.
It still sounds the way it should and I was
not quite sure about the 'type' on this one,
either, so thanks to whoever re-wrote the
submission.
Clicking the ABC tab shows a 'good' version
of the tune and the 'Download ABC file' button
on the download page gives the same, good,
ABC file by the name of 'ganainm.abc'.
The other 'links' on the Download page ( the
MIDI and GIF downloads ) also give the 'right'
thing but the name(s) for those downloads
are different from the ABC file. You get
'ganainm11.gif' and 'ganainm11.mid' with an
'11' suffix instead of just 'ganainm.???'
So other than the fact that the filenames use
different prefix/suffix and the orginal comments
for this submission have, like the other one,
disappeared... all looks AOK with this one.
Ok... now... ( heavy sigh ) back to the real point
of all this...
Does anyone KNOW THESE TUNES? ( Names?? )
I did a NEW site search since the ABC notation
is now totally different but alas, still no hits
which means either the tunes aren't in the
database or, if they are, the ABC is still
too different for a good match.
Until the cross-matching on the GIF and MIDI
files is resolved you can still simply 'hear'
both tunes by just popping off to this website
for a second and clicking the 2 'Listen' links...
http://itm.wtcsites.com
OR
http://www.itm.wtcsites.com
Either one takes you to the same page
where you can 'hear' these 2 'Unknown' tunes.
Thanks again in advance if anyone happens
to recognize these puppies and can supply
a NAME for either one...
Yours...
Kevin Kiley ( Email: tokiley@aol.com )
# Posted on May 12th 2002 by kiley
Re: Can anyone identify the 2 new tunes just submitted?
Hi Kevin,
The first one is on Chieftains in China, too, but it's just tacked onto the front of If I had Maggie in the Wood (as Brother Steve already pointed out). I haven't got my copy with me or I'd check to see if they name it on that album.
The second one is in on The Chieftains 7 album as "Hedigan's Fancy" (Track 3). Sounds like a slip jig to me. Check it out on Amazon, they have a sound clip.
# Posted on May 12th 2002 by soft black stars
Re: Can anyone identify the 2 new tunes just submitted?
Kevin, there's nothing mysterious about the correction of the ABC notation: it was obvious that the tunes were a polka and a slip jig, respectively. I edited the ABC notation and the tune info to reflect this.
As for the .gif and .midi files not matching, I've fixed that now. The problem occurs when two tunes of the same name are submitted at the same time.
# Posted on May 12th 2002 by Jeremy
Re: Can anyone identify the 2 new tunes just submitted?
On the Gael-Linn LP "Ceol as Sliabh Luachra" by Julia Clifford and her son Billy, the polka is called "The Five Servants".
It is also listed under that name in Henrik Norbeck's index of ABC tunes, as well as "Bruise Hill" and "The Ballybunnion Polka".
BTW Julia Clifford, who died a few years ago, was a fiddler from the Sliabh Luachra area. She and her more better-known brother Dennis Murphy were among the last pupils of the famous Padraig O'Keeffe.
# Posted on May 12th 2002 by Jeeves Tones
Re: Can anyone identify the 2 new tunes just submitted?
Kevin, now that you have a name for the polka, you can change the details for that tune. Just go to the page with that tune (make sure you're logged on with your username and password) and click on "Edit these details".
As the person who submitted the tune, you can change any of the tunes details: name, tune type, key signature and even the ABC notation. The sheetmusic and midi file, however, won't change.
Anybody can attach additional names to tunes.
# Posted on May 13th 2002 by Jeremy
Think I have the second one.
Strike the Gay Harp - some of it is missing. The rest of the tune is available in Oneil's. The tune was recorded on an early Cheiftans recording. Have fun and enjoy the rest of the tune.
Mark
# Posted on May 16th 2002 by Mark Cordova