Can anyone offer some advice re- tunings for a 10 string mandolin, octave mandolin or bouzouki. I am awaiting delivery of a 10 string OM (cittern by some definitions) tuned GDADA. ie. with the extra TOP strings. I note that most similar tunings available offer an extra lower course. My motive for such a set up is that my current OM is tuned GDAD (and I am very comfortable with this), but many tunes create a real challenge when they go above top G. Quite a bit of a stretch up the neck is required and it is impossible (for me) in anything more robust than a waltz. Other owners of such "citterns" (please, I don't wish to generate a debate over what constitutes a cittern) ... do you have an extra top or lower course? What advantages for either, particularly over a standard 8 string?
What's your scale length? I have a relatively short-scale cittern (20.25") which I keep tuned at GDAEA; this works well for melodic lead. A longer-scaled instrument would lend itself to mandola-mandolin tuning, CGDAE. This tuning works well for both accompaniment and lead.
I use a .009 string for the high A and have had no problems with string breakage.
I'm still saving for my bouzouki/cittern, but for quite a few years I have played a 6 string tenor guitar tuned as a cittern. Neck length just on 20 inches. That makes it short. I tried to keep the strings tuned in fifths and had a bit of a joke in adding a string at the bottom and at the top. The top was .09 and worked quite well on b. No breakage troubles in playing, but was a little tender if treated roughly. But the bottom string (C) was never more than a joke. It looked a treat but you wouldn't really want to play too much up the fret on it. It lacked any sound and was generally out of tune. Once the joke was old, i took it off for good. So for a short neck instrument, go up with a or b. For a long necked instrument, get hold of a string calculator.
Hey I play GDADA - great all-round tuning for both backing and tunes. You'll never have problems reaching those higher notes again. The 5 courses give you a lot of scope for adding extensions onto chords and stuff. BTW since the neck has to be short to accommodate that top A string, strictly speaking what you are getting is a 10-string mandola with an extra *lower* course, not an OM with an extra higher course... not that it matters I suppose.
Ideas for other tunings are anything with a range between that bottom G and top A, although you might find that you are able to tune that up to top B if you use a thin gauge (try a 9 or maybe the 10 might be ok). Try GDAEA, or with the A in the bass - ADAEA, and also try open tunings like GDGDG, ADADA, AEAEA, or even in 5ths like GDAEB, or anything similar. You're best just experimenting with the range you have. I've tried all of these and found GDADA to be the most versatile, so I stuck with it early on and have never changed. The GDAEA tuning isn't as good for chords and with that extra top course you're not limited by range like on the zouk. Also it's still possible to play in keys like Amaj in GDADA, it's just that the chord shapes are a bit more difficult, but it's worth sacrificing that for the easy time you have playing in the keys of G and D. It also depends on what tunes you want to play - i.e. largely Irish or largely Scottish. I find that the completely open tunings like ADADA sound brilliant in certain keys but are limiting in others, although maybe a quick-change capo would solve this (not my thing tho').
The key to it is that if you've asked for an instrument tuneable to top A, your instrument will be less suited to the long-scale cittern tunings like DGDAD and DGDAE, so I'd play around with the short-scale possibilities, as there are enough of them to try out.
Greatly appreciate the comments folks. You have heightened my sense of anticipation. Dow, you have obviously had a lot of experience with a similar instrument - some interesting ideas on alternate tunings. Thanks.
Another advantage I've found with GDADA is that I'd say most (but certainly not all) zouk players who do backing tune to GDAD so if you want to have a go on someone else's instrument or another zouk player wants to have a go on yours, it plays the same. I often hand my mandola over to our guitarist to do some backing when I want to do something else like play another instrument for a while.
I know a greek/american lady that frequents the trad circuit in NH, she owns a very nice Trillium Cittern (20" scale) she tunes hers 'ala Gerald Trimble, that is DAEAE....when she plays irish stuff she uses a capo on the 5th fret, making it GDADA..she sticks to heavy -ish gauges on strings, mostly beacuse she's pretty heavy-handed on the thing(like myself), and would be breaking strings like she owns the factory (also like myself), I own a Fylde short scale (23.5") and tume it GDAD, thanks to my long fingers, I have no issues playing melody on it, just practice my position changes (I, II, III), just like playing guitar, which I did for 30+ years....hope this helps
Perhaps one of you may have an answer to my dilema about a 5-course mandolin 16 inch scale length that I want to tune to CGDAE. Am using .008 - .009 for the E's but they break if I just look at them. Am considering tuning Bb F C G D and using capo at 2nd fret. Any wise ones have other suggestions?
10 String Mandolin/OM/Bouzouki
10 String Mandolin/OM/Bouzouki
Can anyone offer some advice re- tunings for a 10 string mandolin, octave mandolin or bouzouki. I am awaiting delivery of a 10 string OM (cittern by some definitions) tuned GDADA. ie. with the extra TOP strings. I note that most similar tunings available offer an extra lower course. My motive for such a set up is that my current OM is tuned GDAD (and I am very comfortable with this), but many tunes create a real challenge when they go above top G. Quite a bit of a stretch up the neck is required and it is impossible (for me) in anything more robust than a waltz. Other owners of such "citterns" (please, I don't wish to generate a debate over what constitutes a cittern) ... do you have an extra top or lower course? What advantages for either, particularly over a standard 8 string?
# Posted on December 29th 2004 by tyardy
Re: 10 String Mandolin/OM/Bouzouki
I would imagine that most would go for a lower course as a higher 1 would have to be very very thin to get to A but it may be possible.
# Posted on December 29th 2004 by JimR
Re: 10 String Mandolin/OM/Bouzouki
What's your scale length? I have a relatively short-scale cittern (20.25") which I keep tuned at GDAEA; this works well for melodic lead. A longer-scaled instrument would lend itself to mandola-mandolin tuning, CGDAE. This tuning works well for both accompaniment and lead.
I use a .009 string for the high A and have had no problems with string breakage.
Larry
# Posted on December 29th 2004 by Layers
Re: 10 String Mandolin/OM/Bouzouki
You could try DGDAE or DGDAD as alternatives to CGDAE.
# Posted on December 29th 2004 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: 10 String Mandolin/OM/Bouzouki
I'm still saving for my bouzouki/cittern, but for quite a few years I have played a 6 string tenor guitar tuned as a cittern. Neck length just on 20 inches. That makes it short. I tried to keep the strings tuned in fifths and had a bit of a joke in adding a string at the bottom and at the top. The top was .09 and worked quite well on b. No breakage troubles in playing, but was a little tender if treated roughly. But the bottom string (C) was never more than a joke. It looked a treat but you wouldn't really want to play too much up the fret on it. It lacked any sound and was generally out of tune. Once the joke was old, i took it off for good. So for a short neck instrument, go up with a or b. For a long necked instrument, get hold of a string calculator.
# Posted on December 30th 2004 by NeilBarr
Re: 10 String Mandolin/OM/Bouzouki
There are some comments on cittern tunings in this article by Graham McDonald, Australian bouzouki maker.
http://www.mcdonaldstrings.com/Chap1.pdf
# Posted on December 30th 2004 by NeilBarr
Re: 10 String Mandolin/OM/Bouzouki
Hey I play GDADA - great all-round tuning for both backing and tunes. You'll never have problems reaching those higher notes again. The 5 courses give you a lot of scope for adding extensions onto chords and stuff. BTW since the neck has to be short to accommodate that top A string, strictly speaking what you are getting is a 10-string mandola with an extra *lower* course, not an OM with an extra higher course... not that it matters I suppose.
Ideas for other tunings are anything with a range between that bottom G and top A, although you might find that you are able to tune that up to top B if you use a thin gauge (try a 9 or maybe the 10 might be ok). Try GDAEA, or with the A in the bass - ADAEA, and also try open tunings like GDGDG, ADADA, AEAEA, or even in 5ths like GDAEB, or anything similar. You're best just experimenting with the range you have. I've tried all of these and found GDADA to be the most versatile, so I stuck with it early on and have never changed. The GDAEA tuning isn't as good for chords and with that extra top course you're not limited by range like on the zouk. Also it's still possible to play in keys like Amaj in GDADA, it's just that the chord shapes are a bit more difficult, but it's worth sacrificing that for the easy time you have playing in the keys of G and D. It also depends on what tunes you want to play - i.e. largely Irish or largely Scottish. I find that the completely open tunings like ADADA sound brilliant in certain keys but are limiting in others, although maybe a quick-change capo would solve this (not my thing tho').
The key to it is that if you've asked for an instrument tuneable to top A, your instrument will be less suited to the long-scale cittern tunings like DGDAD and DGDAE, so I'd play around with the short-scale possibilities, as there are enough of them to try out.
# Posted on December 30th 2004 by Dr. Dow
Re: 10 String Mandolin/OM/Bouzouki
Greatly appreciate the comments folks. You have heightened my sense of anticipation. Dow, you have obviously had a lot of experience with a similar instrument - some interesting ideas on alternate tunings. Thanks.
# Posted on December 30th 2004 by tyardy
Re: 10 String Mandolin/OM/Bouzouki
Another advantage I've found with GDADA is that I'd say most (but certainly not all) zouk players who do backing tune to GDAD so if you want to have a go on someone else's instrument or another zouk player wants to have a go on yours, it plays the same. I often hand my mandola over to our guitarist to do some backing when I want to do something else like play another instrument for a while.
# Posted on December 31st 2004 by Dr. Dow
Re: 10 String Mandolin/OM/Bouzouki
I know a greek/american lady that frequents the trad circuit in NH, she owns a very nice Trillium Cittern (20" scale) she tunes hers 'ala Gerald Trimble, that is DAEAE....when she plays irish stuff she uses a capo on the 5th fret, making it GDADA..she sticks to heavy -ish gauges on strings, mostly beacuse she's pretty heavy-handed on the thing(like myself), and would be breaking strings like she owns the factory (also like myself), I own a Fylde short scale (23.5") and tume it GDAD, thanks to my long fingers, I have no issues playing melody on it, just practice my position changes (I, II, III), just like playing guitar, which I did for 30+ years....hope this helps
# Posted on December 31st 2004 by zoukmike
Re: 10 String Mandolin/OM/Bouzouki
Perhaps one of you may have an answer to my dilema about a 5-course mandolin 16 inch scale length that I want to tune to CGDAE. Am using .008 - .009 for the E's but they break if I just look at them. Am considering tuning Bb F C G D and using capo at 2nd fret. Any wise ones have other suggestions?
Help appreciated.
Brian
# Posted on January 29th 2005 by bjlynch