Hi there!
During last four months in Ireland (doin' university research on backing traditional irish music) i noticed that guitar is not often respected (sometimes really unwelcome!) by traditional instrument players;
anyway the irish 6strings is still alive 'n kickin' through sessions and recordings....
What's your experience about backing or playng accompained?
Take it with a grain of salt, the only instruments which won't get you a funny look would be pipes, fiddle, flute and sometimes the whistle. My only gripe with the guitar/bozouki is that it has taken over, squeezing out other traditional backup instruments. Most people came into Irish Music by way of one band or another, that featured guitar/bozouki back up. That is what they think of when they think of 'Traditional Irish Music' I was exposed to the music by small bar concerts & sessions in New York City, and backing ranged from none (which is very nice at times) to guitar but often piano was used as well. So my ears are used to all kinds of backing and I like all of them for there own specific merits. But many people nowadays harbor worse feelings for the piano than they do for guitars, bozoukis or bodhrans. Which is a shame.
In the hands of someone who's sympathetic to the tune you're playing I think a guitar can sometimes give a lift to the music. I'm not so keen on sessions having two or more guitarists giving out different chords at the same time. I prefer to hear the open tuning (DADGAD?) as I think this suits the modal character of some of the tunes much more. What narks me most is the random chord spattering used by some players who will think they know how a tune should go but it takes a twist. You try playing the Earl's Chair,the Golden Eagle or the Ace and Deuce and see what usually happens...Other than that I think guitars are here to stay,you can't un-invent them so enjoy them that listen! All the best with your research/session backing activities.
In my experience (humble, I admit) a well-played 6 string adds a dimension and a fullness to a session that just isn't there when everyone is playing the tunes in unison. In all the sessions I've been to in Canada, it's common if not standard - the exception being in Cape Breton, where piano accompaniment is the norm. Well - played is the operative word (conjunction?) though. A badly played guitar subtracts as much as a well played one contributes. Personally, I play a much better and livelier fiddle with a guitar backing me up. It keeps me conscious of the rhythm and flow of a tune in a way a bodhran alone can't. Also, the guitar player I had in my last band had a knack for mixing things up - switching from minor chords to major on the last repetition of the same tune, varying the chord pattern to find complementary keys that lent an entirely new mood, and pulling bizarre and catchy rhythms out of his hat that shouldn't have worked, but did. Basically - as we were playing for pub audiences who would not appreciate the subtle differences of one set of unaccompanied session tunes to the next, the presence of the 6 string aided us in presenting a very dynamic and consistently engaging show. I realize the purpose of a session is not to engage the crowd at the bar, but the stuff still sounds better to me with the guitar.
I think some of the lack of respect could be due to guitar players who dont know the tunes. A guitar player might figure out a tune is in G, and then just bang away with G, C and D chords, throwing off the feel of the tune or being just plain wrong. Maybe I'm being a bit harsh but someone who plays guitar just fine for blues or rock might not necessarily know what to do with a jig or reel, and probably knows nothing about dorian an mixolydian modes and what the correct chords really should be. Thus they can elict the same response as a bodhran 'player' who doesn't know what he or she is doing ..
A badly played intrument is a badly played instrument, but when all is said & done I think guitars fit better in a session & piano fits better for a feis. The piano has a much more cleaner & percusive sound needed for dancing. The guitar tends to bleed into the other instrument filling out the sound of the players. As I said before they both have their finer points.
I think part of the anti-guitar prejudice stems from the fact that a lot of guitar players are coming from a different musical background.
The players of most session instruments started playing those instruments specifically for Irish music. With guitar players, this often isn't the case.
Now, coming from a different musical background isn't a bad thing as long as you can appreciate that trad music is different and realise where those differences lie. If a guitar player coming from a blues/rock background attempts to apply the rules of thumb of twelve bar blues to jigs and reels, it will probably sound pretty bad. If this kind of thing happens often enough, people will begin to associate guitar players with bad backing.
This, of course, does a great disservice to all the truly excellent guitar accompaniasts out there.
I think another reason why "backup" instruments are sometimes resented is the very fact that they aren't melody instruments.
If you don't know a particular tune on the flute or fiddle, it's pretty hard to fake it. But the bodhr
ooh, as an afterthought, anyone curious about "good" guitar accompaniment should take a listen to Dennis Cahill on one of Martin Hayes' albums. (Lonesome Touch?) It's just the two of them, from what I remember, so you can really appreciate the interplay of rhythm and melody.
Also, re guitar not being a "melody instrument", if you are a guitar player and want to play at sessions, learn to flatpick tunes and it will definitely distinguish you from the guitar hack stereotype.
yes,fiddler on vermouth,I do like Dennis Cahill's touch on that album and was very impressed when they played in London last time.So impressed in fact that when Martin Hayes failed to give Dennis his due at the end of the gig it left a slightly bitter after-taste.Another excellent player,to my mind at least,is Paul Brady(with Tommy Peoples,Andy McGann etc) and not forgetting the rather classy Arty McGlynn.As mentioned,it all comes down to sympathetic treatment of the tunes...
ps,I do like this site so keep up the good work!
Thanks to all of you! In the last days i enjoyed a lot of sessions (a couple of them were really cracks!!!) just playin' whistle because there were already a bouzouki player and a guitarist ....research goes on and i'm currently working on Arty McGlynn's accompainment to Nollaig Casey,s fiddle (you got to listen!) as well as Micheal O'Domhnaill's stuff with Kevin Burke. Check "discussions" for a couple of new questions! Love 'n respect to all you.
Guitar 'n backin'up
Guitar 'n backin'up
Hi there!
During last four months in Ireland (doin' university research on backing traditional irish music) i noticed that guitar is not often respected (sometimes really unwelcome!) by traditional instrument players;
anyway the irish 6strings is still alive 'n kickin' through sessions and recordings....
What's your experience about backing or playng accompained?
# Posted on August 20th 2001 by pancillotto
Re: Guitar 'n backin'up
Take it with a grain of salt, the only instruments which won't get you a funny look would be pipes, fiddle, flute and sometimes the whistle. My only gripe with the guitar/bozouki is that it has taken over, squeezing out other traditional backup instruments. Most people came into Irish Music by way of one band or another, that featured guitar/bozouki back up. That is what they think of when they think of 'Traditional Irish Music' I was exposed to the music by small bar concerts & sessions in New York City, and backing ranged from none (which is very nice at times) to guitar but often piano was used as well. So my ears are used to all kinds of backing and I like all of them for there own specific merits. But many people nowadays harbor worse feelings for the piano than they do for guitars, bozoukis or bodhrans. Which is a shame.
# Posted on August 21st 2001 by B Rad
Re: Guitar 'n backin'up
In the hands of someone who's sympathetic to the tune you're playing I think a guitar can sometimes give a lift to the music. I'm not so keen on sessions having two or more guitarists giving out different chords at the same time. I prefer to hear the open tuning (DADGAD?) as I think this suits the modal character of some of the tunes much more. What narks me most is the random chord spattering used by some players who will think they know how a tune should go but it takes a twist. You try playing the Earl's Chair,the Golden Eagle or the Ace and Deuce and see what usually happens...Other than that I think guitars are here to stay,you can't un-invent them so enjoy them that listen! All the best with your research/session backing activities.
# Posted on August 21st 2001 by biggus dave
Re: Guitar 'n backin'up
In my experience (humble, I admit) a well-played 6 string adds a dimension and a fullness to a session that just isn't there when everyone is playing the tunes in unison. In all the sessions I've been to in Canada, it's common if not standard - the exception being in Cape Breton, where piano accompaniment is the norm. Well - played is the operative word (conjunction?) though. A badly played guitar subtracts as much as a well played one contributes. Personally, I play a much better and livelier fiddle with a guitar backing me up. It keeps me conscious of the rhythm and flow of a tune in a way a bodhran alone can't. Also, the guitar player I had in my last band had a knack for mixing things up - switching from minor chords to major on the last repetition of the same tune, varying the chord pattern to find complementary keys that lent an entirely new mood, and pulling bizarre and catchy rhythms out of his hat that shouldn't have worked, but did. Basically - as we were playing for pub audiences who would not appreciate the subtle differences of one set of unaccompanied session tunes to the next, the presence of the 6 string aided us in presenting a very dynamic and consistently engaging show. I realize the purpose of a session is not to engage the crowd at the bar, but the stuff still sounds better to me with the guitar.
# Posted on August 21st 2001 by Kerri Brown
Re: Guitar 'n backin'up
I think some of the lack of respect could be due to guitar players who dont know the tunes. A guitar player might figure out a tune is in G, and then just bang away with G, C and D chords, throwing off the feel of the tune or being just plain wrong. Maybe I'm being a bit harsh but someone who plays guitar just fine for blues or rock might not necessarily know what to do with a jig or reel, and probably knows nothing about dorian an mixolydian modes and what the correct chords really should be. Thus they can elict the same response as a bodhran 'player' who doesn't know what he or she is doing ..
# Posted on August 21st 2001 by pof
Re: Guitar 'n backin'up
A badly played intrument is a badly played instrument, but when all is said & done I think guitars fit better in a session & piano fits better for a feis. The piano has a much more cleaner & percusive sound needed for dancing. The guitar tends to bleed into the other instrument filling out the sound of the players. As I said before they both have their finer points.
# Posted on August 21st 2001 by B Rad
Re: Guitar 'n backin'up
I think part of the anti-guitar prejudice stems from the fact that a lot of guitar players are coming from a different musical background.
The players of most session instruments started playing those instruments specifically for Irish music. With guitar players, this often isn't the case.
Now, coming from a different musical background isn't a bad thing as long as you can appreciate that trad music is different and realise where those differences lie. If a guitar player coming from a blues/rock background attempts to apply the rules of thumb of twelve bar blues to jigs and reels, it will probably sound pretty bad. If this kind of thing happens often enough, people will begin to associate guitar players with bad backing.
This, of course, does a great disservice to all the truly excellent guitar accompaniasts out there.
I think another reason why "backup" instruments are sometimes resented is the very fact that they aren't melody instruments.
If you don't know a particular tune on the flute or fiddle, it's pretty hard to fake it. But the bodhr
# Posted on August 22nd 2001 by Jeremy
Re: Guitar 'n backin'up
ooh, as an afterthought, anyone curious about "good" guitar accompaniment should take a listen to Dennis Cahill on one of Martin Hayes' albums. (Lonesome Touch?) It's just the two of them, from what I remember, so you can really appreciate the interplay of rhythm and melody.
Also, re guitar not being a "melody instrument", if you are a guitar player and want to play at sessions, learn to flatpick tunes and it will definitely distinguish you from the guitar hack stereotype.
# Posted on August 22nd 2001 by Kerri Brown
Re: Guitar 'n backin'up
yes,fiddler on vermouth,I do like Dennis Cahill's touch on that album and was very impressed when they played in London last time.So impressed in fact that when Martin Hayes failed to give Dennis his due at the end of the gig it left a slightly bitter after-taste.Another excellent player,to my mind at least,is Paul Brady(with Tommy Peoples,Andy McGann etc) and not forgetting the rather classy Arty McGlynn.As mentioned,it all comes down to sympathetic treatment of the tunes...
ps,I do like this site so keep up the good work!
# Posted on August 22nd 2001 by biggus dave
Re: Guitar 'n backin'up
Thanks to all of you! In the last days i enjoyed a lot of sessions (a couple of them were really cracks!!!) just playin' whistle because there were already a bouzouki player and a guitarist ....research goes on and i'm currently working on Arty McGlynn's accompainment to Nollaig Casey,s fiddle (you got to listen!) as well as Micheal O'Domhnaill's stuff with Kevin Burke. Check "discussions" for a couple of new questions! Love 'n respect to all you.
# Posted on August 23rd 2001 by pancillotto
Re: Guitar 'n backin'up
IMHO Arty McGlynn sets the benchmark for all aspiring guitar accompanists. Way to go BD and Panc.
# Posted on July 5th 2008 by zepherin