I'm looking to buy a new fiddle for playing out with. Right now I have a pick up attached to my acoustic. I have an electric violin, but I don't use it much because the sound quality isn't that great.
I'm looking into buying an acoustic with the pick up built right in.
Does anyone recommend these kinds of violins? Do they have a good sound quality? Or should I stick with what I have now?
If it were me, I would get a great violin, and stick with what you have as an amped instrument...you can get transducer type mikes that clip on the bridge, but generally you will not be playing amplified (I suppose) anyway
Each to his or her own, but personally, I've never heard an electric violin sound nice. I am not a fiddler (yet) so I am speaking from the listener's point of view.
It depends what sound you want, of course - do you play primarily traditional gigs, or do you cross over into rock music? For traditional gigs, I would recommend getting at least a halfway decent pickup for an acoustic violin. Even on a cheap violin, I think, if properly fitted, this would give a warmer, more fiddle-like tone than an electric.
I've played acoustic fiddles before at gigs, using pickups to aid sound reinforcement. The only thing about that is, sometimes they are prone to feedback at high volumes. Maybe not the top quality ones, but many are (remember some 'pickups' are nothing more than small microphones, which invite feedback like Buffy invites vampires).
A quality electric overcomes this, has better tonal balance, far greater dynamic range, more sonic headroom, albeit a 'different' tone than an acoustic - so a better sound all round, assuming the pre- and power amp are good quality. You wouldn't dream of playing a Fender Strat through a karaoke machine, would you? MG, maybe that's the reason you've never heard an electric fiddle sound nice.
I have the best of all worlds - acoustic for sessions, an electro acoustic which I can use for either and I've just got a Yamaha EV205 which is useful when playing with the full band as I can run an earpiece direct to the fiddle so I can hear the fiddle clearly over the drums/melodeon/bass etc, I have had a Bridge fiddle previously but wasn't happy with it - the Yamaha so far, appears to have a much more natural sound and just feels better. The added bonus is that I can practise early in the morning without waking others in the house as I can run headphones from the fiddle.
...To me, an electric guitar is a different instrument from a steel-strung acoustic, which in turn is a different instrument from a classical guitar, and so on. But when I hear an electric fiddle, it sounds to me like a kind of plastic imitation of the real thing - it sets my teeth on edge. I don't think it has to do with the quality of sound reproduction.
Maybe the technology exists to make a solid-bodied electric violin sound as good as an acoustic violin, but I've yet to hear it.
You get what you pay for. There are plenty of cheap but crappy acoustic and electric fiddles around. Buy a Yamaha SV or EV and you get all the advantages Tarrantella refers to earlier. I use a Yamaha SV112 for gigs simply because it sounds better than my acoustic one and, like Tarantella, I might buy the EV205. Unfortunately, the sad truth is that you would have to pay at least twice as much to get the same sound from an acoustic fiddle as you would from an electric one.
BTW, Tarrantella, what is the fingerboard like on the EV205? More crowded because of the 5th string? Is it easy to get over to the C string?
If you are going to take the leap, get educated. Listen to some Jean-Luc Ponty. Anything from Enigmatic Ocean. That is a stock Barcus Berry (1970's) acoustic electric. See if you can find an mp3 of his tune "Jig" off of Mystical Adventures. That demonstrates an early 1980's Zeta. Ponty always put a lot of thought into his sound, and pretty much defined the instrument.
Dixie Dregs prior to Mark O'Conner. "What If" has some nice clean EV work.
Early 1970's Jerry Goodman with Mahavishnu, circa Birds of Fire.
Mark Wood does some astounding EV work on his own solid body instrument. Demonstrates what is possible.
Yamaha EV's are crap. They sound like the stick they are. The Jordens, Jensons, and Steinbergs are really nice, but pricey. The Zetas get mixed reviews. You really have to work to get a Barcus Berry to sound good. Most of what you see on Ebay is crap.
I think the best approach is to buy as good an acoustic violin as you can get and then invest in a good pickup-- a Fishman, Baggs, or better. Then get a good amp rig.
The amplifier makes a lot of difference in the sound of an EV. Preamp > EQ > bi-ampped power amp > into a good full range PA speaker is much better, JBL, EV, etc.
Then figure out how to control feedback if playing at higher volumes. It can be done with parmetric and graphical eq.
Lukegarry - I have a 5 string acoustic so I was prepared for the EV205. THe first time I played a 5 string, my fingers went between the strings because of the slightly different spacing and I kept hitting the C string when going for the G. But after 2-3 days I found that I automatically adjusted my positioning without thinking.
The only problem I've had with the EV205 is the weight and balance - the acoustic felt so light afterwards!! but I'm getting used to it. It's going to have its first real trial at a gig at Oxford University this weekend - professional sound crew for the Xmas Ball and full band including full drum kit - it should be an interesting experience!
Hi Jim. Having owned several Yamaha's I really don't think too highly of them. The SV200 is an improvement over the older Silent Violin, but they both lack something-- thick tone.
I don't have direct experience with the "Sonic Violin", but did listen to the comparison clip:
On the face of it, I think the Sonic a much better sounding electric instrument than the Yamaha, but judge for yourself. The recording technique is nice and clean, so it is a good comparison between instruments.
It's hard to get anything other than a thin tone out of wooden stick fiddle (Yamaha, and they resort to post processing to fatten up the sound) -- what is needed is a bit of a resonance chamber, and the Sonic Violin, built on the plan poneered by Barcus Berry, certainly has that. Some other electric violins, the Zetas, or even the Steinberger solid body have small resonance chambers built in that really seem to thicken up the tone. No amount of post processing seems to be able to do that for a Yamaha.
But the Yamaha's are relativly cheap and do play well. The Yamaha has much less problem with feedback at high volumes than the Sonic will. The Sonic will have feedback problems at high volume. If I were a kid playing metal violin, i would prefer the Yamaha-- however, if you ever go to a Jean Luc Ponty Show, you'll see that feedback can be controlled even from an acoustic-electric. Ponty plays at rock-concert sound levels, and feedback is completly controlled on his acoustic-electrics-- yet his live tone remains gorgeous. Post processing - eq - and quality amplification and speakers.
Personally, I think there is no comparison, go for the Sonic Violin over the Yamaha.
Stock Barcus Berry (Similar to the Sonic Violin mentioned above, Mutron II Phase Shifter, not sure of the amp and speaker cab, Maybe a Lab or something hightech 70's. Probably 4 10's.
I think one needs to strip away the effects and processing when comparing electrics. Raw unprocessed signal boosted by a quality amp, no more than that.
Ponty's does have a great sound (I've got that album too), but it doesn't really sound like a fiddle, does it? Try playing "The Bucks" on that! (Just to move back a little to the thread subject). Another point is : you can get that sound and the effects etc now for a fraction of what it would have cost in the 70's (relatively speaking). I think the law of diminshing returns applies to electrics - you can get a better sound form a top-of-the-range Zeta or Barcus-Berry, but jeezus do you pay through the nose for it. OK for the the big boys, but would your average gigging musician shell out all that cash? I think not. Probably not. The quality difference simply doesn't justify it.
Hey I just picked up a violin from Meisel. Its the Spitfire E-Fusion Electric model. Its an acoustic with the pickup built right in. It sounds amazing tho! Great sound, no feedback problems. The volume adjustment is great - you can get many ranges for it. And all the strings are picked up equally instead of having one string sounding louder then the other.
I changed the strings tho. It came with the Adagio(sp?) strings on it but I prefer my John Pierce strings. So I put those on.
But it sounds great.
kk.
P.S - thanks for your feedback..really appreciated it!
Lizzie
It's important to note that Electric violins are built with different "design briefs". Decide first what you want from the instrument - Best Sound? Best Paint Job?, Best Looking?, Best Price? etc - a bit like choosing a partner!
The bad press "Electro Acoustics" have wrt feedback should be taken very lightly in most cases, I've played for over 20 years with various acoustic setups and believe me if your having feedback problems then your going to have hearing problems soon - dont play that loud - you ears are more important that your violin.
Acoustic fiddles vs electric
Acoustic fiddles vs electric
I'm looking to buy a new fiddle for playing out with. Right now I have a pick up attached to my acoustic. I have an electric violin, but I don't use it much because the sound quality isn't that great.
I'm looking into buying an acoustic with the pick up built right in.
Does anyone recommend these kinds of violins? Do they have a good sound quality? Or should I stick with what I have now?
# Posted on December 5th 2004 by redheadgirl1219
Re: Acoustic fiddles vs electric
If it were me, I would get a great violin, and stick with what you have as an amped instrument...you can get transducer type mikes that clip on the bridge, but generally you will not be playing amplified (I suppose) anyway
# Posted on December 5th 2004 by Sunnybear
Re: Acoustic fiddles vs electric
I use a condenser mic that clips on my chinrest - many fiddlers use a similar setup.
# Posted on December 5th 2004 by reenactor
Re: Acoustic fiddles vs electric
What make and model of electric do you have? If you want to stay electric, check out these two soundclips from my site :
http://www.worldfiddlemusic.co.uk/mp3/roadtocolumbus1.mp3
and
http://www.worldfiddlemusic.co.uk/mp3/silverspire1.mp3, both played on a Yamaha SV-200 electric violin.
If you want to compare acoustic with a pickup fitted, look at
http://www.sonicviolins.co.uk/SoundFiles.asp
Jim
# Posted on December 5th 2004 by Worldfiddler
Re: Acoustic fiddles vs electric
Each to his or her own, but personally, I've never heard an electric violin sound nice. I am not a fiddler (yet) so I am speaking from the listener's point of view.
It depends what sound you want, of course - do you play primarily traditional gigs, or do you cross over into rock music? For traditional gigs, I would recommend getting at least a halfway decent pickup for an acoustic violin. Even on a cheap violin, I think, if properly fitted, this would give a warmer, more fiddle-like tone than an electric.
Or prove me wrong...
# Posted on December 5th 2004 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: Acoustic fiddles vs electric
I've played acoustic fiddles before at gigs, using pickups to aid sound reinforcement. The only thing about that is, sometimes they are prone to feedback at high volumes. Maybe not the top quality ones, but many are (remember some 'pickups' are nothing more than small microphones, which invite feedback like Buffy invites vampires).
MG, maybe that's the reason you've never heard an electric fiddle sound nice.
A quality electric overcomes this, has better tonal balance, far greater dynamic range, more sonic headroom, albeit a 'different' tone than an acoustic - so a better sound all round, assuming the pre- and power amp are good quality. You wouldn't dream of playing a Fender Strat through a karaoke machine, would you?
Jim
# Posted on December 5th 2004 by Worldfiddler
Re: Acoustic fiddles vs electric
I have the best of all worlds - acoustic for sessions, an electro acoustic which I can use for either and I've just got a Yamaha EV205 which is useful when playing with the full band as I can run an earpiece direct to the fiddle so I can hear the fiddle clearly over the drums/melodeon/bass etc, I have had a Bridge fiddle previously but wasn't happy with it - the Yamaha so far, appears to have a much more natural sound and just feels better. The added bonus is that I can practise early in the morning without waking others in the house as I can run headphones from the fiddle.
# Posted on December 6th 2004 by Tarrantella
Re: Acoustic fiddles vs electric
"MG, maybe that's the reason you've never heard an electric fiddle sound nice."
Maybe, Jim. Or maybe it's just personal taste.
# Posted on December 6th 2004 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: Acoustic fiddles vs electric
...To me, an electric guitar is a different instrument from a steel-strung acoustic, which in turn is a different instrument from a classical guitar, and so on. But when I hear an electric fiddle, it sounds to me like a kind of plastic imitation of the real thing - it sets my teeth on edge. I don't think it has to do with the quality of sound reproduction.
Maybe the technology exists to make a solid-bodied electric violin sound as good as an acoustic violin, but I've yet to hear it.
# Posted on December 6th 2004 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: Acoustic fiddles vs electric
You get what you pay for. There are plenty of cheap but crappy acoustic and electric fiddles around. Buy a Yamaha SV or EV and you get all the advantages Tarrantella refers to earlier. I use a Yamaha SV112 for gigs simply because it sounds better than my acoustic one and, like Tarantella, I might buy the EV205. Unfortunately, the sad truth is that you would have to pay at least twice as much to get the same sound from an acoustic fiddle as you would from an electric one.
BTW, Tarrantella, what is the fingerboard like on the EV205? More crowded because of the 5th string? Is it easy to get over to the C string?
# Posted on December 6th 2004 by lukegarry
Re: Acoustic fiddles vs electric
>> Never heard an electric violin sound nice.
If you are going to take the leap, get educated. Listen to some Jean-Luc Ponty. Anything from Enigmatic Ocean. That is a stock Barcus Berry (1970's) acoustic electric. See if you can find an mp3 of his tune "Jig" off of Mystical Adventures. That demonstrates an early 1980's Zeta. Ponty always put a lot of thought into his sound, and pretty much defined the instrument.
Dixie Dregs prior to Mark O'Conner. "What If" has some nice clean EV work.
Early 1970's Jerry Goodman with Mahavishnu, circa Birds of Fire.
Mark Wood does some astounding EV work on his own solid body instrument. Demonstrates what is possible.
Yamaha EV's are crap. They sound like the stick they are. The Jordens, Jensons, and Steinbergs are really nice, but pricey. The Zetas get mixed reviews. You really have to work to get a Barcus Berry to sound good. Most of what you see on Ebay is crap.
I think the best approach is to buy as good an acoustic violin as you can get and then invest in a good pickup-- a Fishman, Baggs, or better. Then get a good amp rig.
The amplifier makes a lot of difference in the sound of an EV. Preamp > EQ > bi-ampped power amp > into a good full range PA speaker is much better, JBL, EV, etc.
Then figure out how to control feedback if playing at higher volumes. It can be done with parmetric and graphical eq.
Even a Yamaha can sound good like that.
# Posted on December 7th 2004 by hpinson
Re: Acoustic fiddles vs electric
"Yamaha EV's are crap" in your opinion. Do you mean all the Yamaha electrics, including the SV200? Just curious.
Also, what about 'Sonic violins' ? at http://www.sonicviolins.co.uk/ ...there are soundlclips there.
Jim
# Posted on December 7th 2004 by Worldfiddler
Re: Acoustic fiddles vs electric
Lukegarry - I have a 5 string acoustic so I was prepared for the EV205. THe first time I played a 5 string, my fingers went between the strings because of the slightly different spacing and I kept hitting the C string when going for the G. But after 2-3 days I found that I automatically adjusted my positioning without thinking.
The only problem I've had with the EV205 is the weight and balance - the acoustic felt so light afterwards!! but I'm getting used to it. It's going to have its first real trial at a gig at Oxford University this weekend - professional sound crew for the Xmas Ball and full band including full drum kit - it should be an interesting experience!
# Posted on December 7th 2004 by Tarrantella
Re: Acoustic fiddles vs electric
Hi Jim. Having owned several Yamaha's I really don't think too highly of them. The SV200 is an improvement over the older Silent Violin, but they both lack something-- thick tone.
I don't have direct experience with the "Sonic Violin", but did listen to the comparison clip:
http://www.sonicviolins.co.uk/Images/Sound/Comparison.mp3
On the face of it, I think the Sonic a much better sounding electric instrument than the Yamaha, but judge for yourself. The recording technique is nice and clean, so it is a good comparison between instruments.
It's hard to get anything other than a thin tone out of wooden stick fiddle (Yamaha, and they resort to post processing to fatten up the sound) -- what is needed is a bit of a resonance chamber, and the Sonic Violin, built on the plan poneered by Barcus Berry, certainly has that. Some other electric violins, the Zetas, or even the Steinberger solid body have small resonance chambers built in that really seem to thicken up the tone. No amount of post processing seems to be able to do that for a Yamaha.
But the Yamaha's are relativly cheap and do play well. The Yamaha has much less problem with feedback at high volumes than the Sonic will. The Sonic will have feedback problems at high volume. If I were a kid playing metal violin, i would prefer the Yamaha-- however, if you ever go to a Jean Luc Ponty Show, you'll see that feedback can be controlled even from an acoustic-electric. Ponty plays at rock-concert sound levels, and feedback is completly controlled on his acoustic-electrics-- yet his live tone remains gorgeous. Post processing - eq - and quality amplification and speakers.
Personally, I think there is no comparison, go for the Sonic Violin over the Yamaha.
# Posted on December 8th 2004 by hpinson
Re: Acoustic fiddles vs electric
Here's a clip of the classic electric violin sound, from Jean Luc Ponty's classic Mirage, off of the Enigmatic Ocean album.
http://www.indepthl.com/audio/jlp.mp3
Stock Barcus Berry (Similar to the Sonic Violin mentioned above, Mutron II Phase Shifter, not sure of the amp and speaker cab, Maybe a Lab or something hightech 70's. Probably 4 10's.
# Posted on December 8th 2004 by hpinson
Re: Acoustic fiddles vs electric
I think one needs to strip away the effects and processing when comparing electrics. Raw unprocessed signal boosted by a quality amp, no more than that.
Ponty's does have a great sound (I've got that album too), but it doesn't really sound like a fiddle, does it? Try playing "The Bucks" on that! (Just to move back a little to the thread subject). Another point is : you can get that sound and the effects etc now for a fraction of what it would have cost in the 70's (relatively speaking). I think the law of diminshing returns applies to electrics - you can get a better sound form a top-of-the-range Zeta or Barcus-Berry, but jeezus do you pay through the nose for it. OK for the the big boys, but would your average gigging musician shell out all that cash? I think not. Probably not. The quality difference simply doesn't justify it.
Jim
# Posted on December 8th 2004 by Worldfiddler
Re: Acoustic fiddles vs electric
Hey I just picked up a violin from Meisel. Its the Spitfire E-Fusion Electric model. Its an acoustic with the pickup built right in. It sounds amazing tho! Great sound, no feedback problems. The volume adjustment is great - you can get many ranges for it. And all the strings are picked up equally instead of having one string sounding louder then the other.
I changed the strings tho. It came with the Adagio(sp?) strings on it but I prefer my John Pierce strings. So I put those on.
But it sounds great.
kk.
P.S - thanks for your feedback..really appreciated it!
Lizzie
# Posted on December 8th 2004 by redheadgirl1219
Re: Acoustic fiddles vs electric
It's important to note that Electric violins are built with different "design briefs". Decide first what you want from the instrument - Best Sound? Best Paint Job?, Best Looking?, Best Price? etc - a bit like choosing a partner!
The bad press "Electro Acoustics" have wrt feedback should be taken very lightly in most cases, I've played for over 20 years with various acoustic setups and believe me if your having feedback problems then your going to have hearing problems soon - dont play that loud - you ears are more important that your violin.
# Posted on December 9th 2004 by Titch {=/=}===++
Re: Acoustic fiddles vs electric
How do I find a sound clip for the EV-205 fiddle?
# Posted on January 15th 2005 by irishpenguin