Does anyone know about ornamentation on guitar, are rolls or cuts used in guitar playing?
If so do you know of any sites on the web or books where one could study up on how to do them.Thanks in advance for any help.
As a fairly new instrument to Irish Trad, particularly as a melody instrument, I don't think there is really any established system of ornamentation for guitar. There is the full range of ornaments available to the tenor banjo/mandolin player (allowing for differences in tuning), if you are using a flatpick. For fingerpicking, it would be slightly different. Of course, the additional sustain of the guitar allows such things as hammer-ons, pull-offs and string-bending, which tend to get lost on banjo and mandolin. In theory, there is no reason why, on a good responsive guitar, one couldn't exectute fiddle-type rolls, using a combination of hammer-ons and pull-offs, although, to make it wotrthwhile, you'd have to get everyone to shut up and listen.
Rolls can be done, but string-bending should be used very, very judiciously. Much as a fiddler rarely uses vibrato or a flute rarely uses trills/mordents. While common in other genres these effects are used with great caution in ITM.
If you're going to use string bends, try to bend all the way up to the next note as opposed to using "blue notes," which are pretty much foreign to ITM. And as Brad says, use them sparingly! (My favorite way to use them is at the end of a phrase - if the final note happens to fall on an open string, I'll bend the adjacent string up to match it. The resulting "double" is very effective.)
A good starting point for developing a style on a 'new' instrument is to look to the playing styles of other, better established instruments. But it is wonderful if one can put to good use all the techniques available on that instrument. As far as string bending goes, one can listen, for inspiration, to the way pipers slide up to F#, or the untempered intonation of some fiddlers.
-- I like to remember that my part in the music is primarily to provide accompaniment -- the "wind beneath the wings" for the session players and the dancers, using the proper time signature and proper rhythm patterns.
-- If I am even a little familiar with the tune, I like to try to picture a dancer in my mind while I am playing and the "visualizations" help me with my accompaniment.
-- An experienced TRAD guitarist will “blend in” and not seek to overpower the group. Creating a good solid, appropriate background can add a great deal to the sound and pleasure of the session tune. An experienced guitarist can add a huge dimension to a session tune. I fiddler and guitarist can do wonderful things together.
-- The proper "Passing Notes" from one chord to another can be very tasteful and can add a lot to the tune. This is done, again, by experienced guitarists.
-- “The guitar as a melody instrument”. When I do most of my TRAD melody, I use a pick. I also play classical guitar so I can use Finger style for appropriate, slower, more soulful tunes. Accuracy and speed are needed when playing melody with the flat pick. I use “triplet’s” and “hammer-on’s” and “pull-off’s” and “Grace-notes” when it is applicable and only at the proper place in my phrasing. All are fine when not over-used.
-- NEVER go to an experienced session as a beginner guitarist unless you are quite familiar with proper Session Etiquette. If you do go to an advanced session, and there is an experienced guitarist there, you are “very wise” to speak to him or here, and explain that you are there to LEARN and not tramp all over the session. Ask the guitarist to HELP you learn, and WATCH him or her very carefully. If you feel like that guitarist is not adhering to the TRAD way of doing things, then do not learn his or her inappropriateness.
-- Buy some good fiddle books WITH the CD, and chords shown, and learn them on the guitar, and accompany the CD with the your chords. Mel-Bay Publications has a number of these. BORROW these from your TRAD friends. Buy a video. Buy a TRAD guitar primer. You’ll have to seek this out. Music store have a lot to offer. Try the Web.
CONCLUSION:
I’m not trying to preach, here, but there are some who are not open about certain instrument played in TRAD music. If a mandolin, and banjo can be involved, then so can the guitar. The guitar is as noble an instrument as any, and if it’s music is played and offered “with respect to tradition, and personal humility” – no one has the right to fault you. It’s also your responsibility to play the instrument justly.
An example of excellent ITM melody playing on guitar is a 1977 instrumental album by Dick Gaughan: Coppers & Brass, Scots and Irish Dance Music on Guitar. The CD is available from Green Linnet Records.
Guitar Ornamentation
Guitar Ornamentation
Does anyone know about ornamentation on guitar, are rolls or cuts used in guitar playing?
If so do you know of any sites on the web or books where one could study up on how to do them.Thanks in advance for any help.
# Posted on April 28th 2002 by Tom
Re: Guitar Ornamentation
This site will answer your questions
http://www.greenmanhumming.com/html/zoukornaments/
It's mainly dedicated to 'zouki, but it can be done on a guitar.
IMO triplets seem to be the best ornament for guitars, grace notes are just a matter of hammer-on's/off's. Good luck!
# Posted on April 28th 2002 by Brad Maloney
Re: Guitar Ornamentation
As a fairly new instrument to Irish Trad, particularly as a melody instrument, I don't think there is really any established system of ornamentation for guitar. There is the full range of ornaments available to the tenor banjo/mandolin player (allowing for differences in tuning), if you are using a flatpick. For fingerpicking, it would be slightly different. Of course, the additional sustain of the guitar allows such things as hammer-ons, pull-offs and string-bending, which tend to get lost on banjo and mandolin. In theory, there is no reason why, on a good responsive guitar, one couldn't exectute fiddle-type rolls, using a combination of hammer-ons and pull-offs, although, to make it wotrthwhile, you'd have to get everyone to shut up and listen.
# Posted on April 29th 2002 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: Guitar Ornamentation
Rolls can be done, but string-bending should be used very, very judiciously. Much as a fiddler rarely uses vibrato or a flute rarely uses trills/mordents. While common in other genres these effects are used with great caution in ITM.
# Posted on April 29th 2002 by Brad Maloney
Re: Guitar Ornamentation
If you're going to use string bends, try to bend all the way up to the next note as opposed to using "blue notes," which are pretty much foreign to ITM. And as Brad says, use them sparingly! (My favorite way to use them is at the end of a phrase - if the final note happens to fall on an open string, I'll bend the adjacent string up to match it. The resulting "double" is very effective.)
# Posted on April 29th 2002 by JeffK627
Guitar Ornamentation
A good starting point for developing a style on a 'new' instrument is to look to the playing styles of other, better established instruments. But it is wonderful if one can put to good use all the techniques available on that instrument. As far as string bending goes, one can listen, for inspiration, to the way pipers slide up to F#, or the untempered intonation of some fiddlers.
# Posted on May 3rd 2002 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: Guitar Ornamentation
Hello,
I am a guitarist, also and I love my TRAD.
-- I like to remember that my part in the music is primarily to provide accompaniment -- the "wind beneath the wings" for the session players and the dancers, using the proper time signature and proper rhythm patterns.
-- If I am even a little familiar with the tune, I like to try to picture a dancer in my mind while I am playing and the "visualizations" help me with my accompaniment.
-- An experienced TRAD guitarist will “blend in” and not seek to overpower the group. Creating a good solid, appropriate background can add a great deal to the sound and pleasure of the session tune. An experienced guitarist can add a huge dimension to a session tune. I fiddler and guitarist can do wonderful things together.
-- The proper "Passing Notes" from one chord to another can be very tasteful and can add a lot to the tune. This is done, again, by experienced guitarists.
-- “The guitar as a melody instrument”. When I do most of my TRAD melody, I use a pick. I also play classical guitar so I can use Finger style for appropriate, slower, more soulful tunes. Accuracy and speed are needed when playing melody with the flat pick. I use “triplet’s” and “hammer-on’s” and “pull-off’s” and “Grace-notes” when it is applicable and only at the proper place in my phrasing. All are fine when not over-used.
-- NEVER go to an experienced session as a beginner guitarist unless you are quite familiar with proper Session Etiquette. If you do go to an advanced session, and there is an experienced guitarist there, you are “very wise” to speak to him or here, and explain that you are there to LEARN and not tramp all over the session. Ask the guitarist to HELP you learn, and WATCH him or her very carefully. If you feel like that guitarist is not adhering to the TRAD way of doing things, then do not learn his or her inappropriateness.
-- Buy some good fiddle books WITH the CD, and chords shown, and learn them on the guitar, and accompany the CD with the your chords. Mel-Bay Publications has a number of these. BORROW these from your TRAD friends. Buy a video. Buy a TRAD guitar primer. You’ll have to seek this out. Music store have a lot to offer. Try the Web.
CONCLUSION:
I’m not trying to preach, here, but there are some who are not open about certain instrument played in TRAD music. If a mandolin, and banjo can be involved, then so can the guitar. The guitar is as noble an instrument as any, and if it’s music is played and offered “with respect to tradition, and personal humility” – no one has the right to fault you. It’s also your responsibility to play the instrument justly.
Good Luck. Greg
# Posted on May 5th 2002 by Greg
Re: Guitar Ornamentation
An example of excellent ITM melody playing on guitar is a 1977 instrumental album by Dick Gaughan: Coppers & Brass, Scots and Irish Dance Music on Guitar. The CD is available from Green Linnet Records.
# Posted on May 6th 2002 by dfost