The ultimate case sticker (and seisiún vs session)
The ultimate case sticker (and seisiún vs session)
So, leaving the discussions on stickers' to-be-or-not-to-be, what would be the ultimate case sticker? I'm thinking of making some of them, and I need ideas... I've thought about a small one simply stating "so many tunes, so little time" or something like that.
Another one is "it's not an addiction, it's an obseisiún" (with seisiún italic), but I'm not sure about the word seisiún. Would session be better? Is it the same deal as with craic vs crack?
A good one in swedish is "det är mänskligt att fela", which means "to err is human", but the word "fela" means both "err" and "fiddle", so it can also mean "to [play the] fiddle is human".
Re: The ultimate case sticker (and seisiún vs session)
Many years ago I had a Musicians Union sticker, which read Keep Music LIVE.
A cut out the letters with a Stanley knife and re arranged them to EVIL (or you could have VILE).
PP
Re: The ultimate case sticker (and seisiún vs session)
The best one I know of resides on the pipe case of a man who owns a 4-regulator Froment Bb set . It's an industrial-type caution sticker of the sort you might find on a big stamping press, milling machine or some other large piece of hideously expensive, complicated hydraulic or electrical equipment:
"DANGER !
Do not operate without reading the manual first.
Special care must be taken when operating the regulators."
Re: The ultimate case sticker (and seisiún vs session)
As for the Irish vs. English, it doesn't really matter. Like "crack", "seisiún" was the way they Irish-ized the English. (My favorite is still the Irish for "banana".) This sort of thing happens when the language is still living.
My own working solution is to use all Irish if I'm using any Irish words, and all English if I'm using any English words, unless there is no equivalent word in one or the other language. I hope to look a little less twee that way, specially since I'm not an Irish speaker.
Re: The ultimate case sticker (and seisiún vs session)
Well, maybe my idea is a bit too obvious, but I'm surprised Zazzle don't do those kind of stickers - you know, the company Jeremy got to do those The Session.org T-shirts, because it would be nice to get a sticker with The Session.org logo (that would of course be spelt "session"). http://www.zazzle.com/products/product/product.asp?product%5Fid=235072874896351977
Would it be possible to get them custom made by a web-based company?
Re: The ultimate case sticker (and seisiún vs session)
pobe... I was always lead to believe "crack" was what we have in our arses.... entirly different from the "good time" variety the irish gave us ;) (oops just ignore me if I'm being too giddy)
Re: The ultimate case sticker (and seisiún vs session)
Well, thanks for some nice suggestions. Perhaps I'll use "session" instead of "seisiún" (it does feel better, but I think it will become a design decision, I'll take what looks best).
Re: The ultimate case sticker (and seisiún vs session)
"Like "crack", "seisiún" was the way they Irish-ized the English." - umm, sorry, this is not true Zina. "Craic" is actually an ancient gaelic word that has been brought into the English language (not "Irish-ized" as you said). There is no single meaning for "craic", so it cannot be directly translated to English, as there is no single English word for it... it means: good fun / company, enjoyment, fun, banter, often associated with music "(ceol) agus craic"... So in truth "Craic" was DEFINITELY NOT taken from English, but infact taken from Gaelic and not even anglicised, but more brought into the English language, as it doesn't have a single meaning like the English word "crack" (unless you are crude, or use the "crack" cocaine drug term), so probably best sticking to "craic" ;)
With regards to the word seisiún, I would imagine this also comes from Gaelic word "séis" which means "music" or "singing", but I'm not sure if anyone has ever published this possible link, but that's my thinking on it. So I think I'll stick to "craic" and "seisiún" as much as I can. Hope this doesn't mean that Jeremy has to buy a new domain name :P
Re: The ultimate case sticker (and seisiún vs session)
We've had this discussion before, by the way. "Crack" is illustrably traced back to the English, some seaport originally, I think, but I haven't a copy of the Oxford anywhere...
Re: The ultimate case sticker (and seisiún vs session)
LOL -- guess what? You're not the only obsessive compulsive around here, I just wrote Fintan Vallely to see if he'll tell us if he was pulling someone's leg with his quote in the Companion to Irish Traditional Music or not!
Re: The ultimate case sticker (and seisiún vs session)
Umm... for the moment, it would seem ur right, damn you Zina Lee!!! But I will delve later, but possibly not to much avail! Anyhow, well done and will keep you posted what the craic is
Re: The ultimate case sticker (and seisiún vs session)
Hey, didn't you know that I'm *always* right, Murrough? (That should be read *heavily* laden with irony and sarcasm, of course.) Let me know if you find anything (authoritative) to the contrary, I'd love to be proven wrong -- fer instance, wouldn't it be appealing to find that the reason "crack" can be traced to a seaport is because of Irish sailors? *sigh* A romantic story, but probably a story nonetheless...
Okay, I wrote Fintan Vallely, asking him if he was indeed pulling legs with his entry under the "craic" category in the Companion to Irish Traditional Music, and here's his reply -- enjoy, I certainly did! (And yes, he gave me permission to pass this on.
___________________________
Zina:
Yes and no . . . But mostly, emphatically, NO. The pisstake is only a device.
When I asked Caomhín Mac Aoidh (author of Between the jigs and the reels, on Donegal fiddling) what his opinion was, he gave the quote (which is attributed to him) Rather good I thought.
Yes, for the reasons outlined in the Companion article, the spelling 'craic' causes serious nausea among intelligent people. This glib spelling of the word was invented in the 1970s - All of the rest of the article is deadly serious (if you call railing against stupidity serious).
The article also makes it clear that it is the context of the use of the (recent, modern) Irish spelling of the word that is the issue - if 'craic' is to be used it should be used while writing in the Irish language, OR placed in parentheses or in italics when writing in English. I stress that this is a word which was NEVER in the Irish language (but cráic, meaning arsehole, or creac, meaning herd, are). The original word, crack, IS in fact old English and is still widely used in England and Scotland, and had moved from there to Ulster with the plantation in the 17th century.
I grew up using the word in the 1950s. When I went to Dublin (from Ulster) in 1968 NOBODY I met in Dublin used 'crack', but people from down south used 'gas' (a corruption of the Irish 'geas' meaning spell, or wonder, effectively the same thing). Crack only began to be used with the influx of northerners and in the context of music, it travelled with northern influence (at the fleadh cheoil, etc) until southern people began to believe that they had invented it. Ciarán Carson is particular enraged by the 'craic' spelling, so too Desi Wilkinson and many other otherwise tolerant souls. It is used largely by the kind of people who put signs outside bars such as "Chips and beens today", or "New potato's". But alarmingly 'craic' is used by younger journalists who cull their education from pub signs and only read press releases issued by CCÉ PR officers who because of the fact that many of them don't play actual music (ah, sure why should they have to?) they are obliged to think that at least some of the words that they speak are surely Irish - on account of the fact that CCÉ gets the bulk of its funding from the Irish government's Irish language budget. Another such word is 'seisiún', equally nauseating if used without italics in the English language. The implication of its usage is that 'seisiún' in its music sense is an Irish tradition. It is not. It probably started in the USA, and became a feature of Irish music life only in the revival years (post 1952). 'seisiún' is likely constructed from the English 'session'. It should be used properly only as a prefix to 'ceoil' (= a music session, as opposed to a drinking session, or a courting session) Originally, anyway, it is a borrowing of the word used for such as a 'court session', and like crack, intelligent reason should have demanded the usage of a proper Irish word for the concept of music session.
Someone else, who probably now is a fanatic agin smoking in bars, remarked to me that the English language in Irish journalism 'had' to re-spell crack as craic, to avoid confusion with the crack cocaine. Dear me! Using that as logic we should be changing half the words in the English language into babby-irish. I mean, look at what 'bush' means - literally and colloquially, And Irish music has 'the old bush reel'. Which do we re-name 'búis' or whatever. Anyway since the drug 'crack' is now found on Irish streets, and the Irish language is obliged to keep up with modern trends, the linguists have in fact gratuitously wasted an important word in their permission for the borrow-usage of 'craic' - rather a stupid thing since there are dozens of perfectly good and much more expressive words already in the Irish language to describe 'good fun'. I'm getting nauseous again.
The ultimate case sticker (and seisiún vs session)
The ultimate case sticker (and seisiún vs session)
So, leaving the discussions on stickers' to-be-or-not-to-be, what would be the ultimate case sticker? I'm thinking of making some of them, and I need ideas... I've thought about a small one simply stating "so many tunes, so little time" or something like that.
Another one is "it's not an addiction, it's an obseisiún" (with seisiún italic), but I'm not sure about the word seisiún. Would session be better? Is it the same deal as with craic vs crack?
A good one in swedish is "det är mänskligt att fela", which means "to err is human", but the word "fela" means both "err" and "fiddle", so it can also mean "to [play the] fiddle is human".
# Posted on November 29th 2004 by Pontus Adefjord
Re: The ultimate case sticker (and seisiún vs session)
How about "so many tunes, and they all sound the same"?>
# Posted on November 29th 2004 by llig leahcim
Re: The ultimate case sticker (and seisiún vs session)
Well, that's a good one
# Posted on November 29th 2004 by Pontus Adefjord
Re: The ultimate case sticker (and seisiún vs session)
...if you're a bodhran player :P
# Posted on November 29th 2004 by Pontus Adefjord
Re: The ultimate case sticker (and seisiún vs session)
Many years ago I had a Musicians Union sticker, which read Keep Music LIVE.
A cut out the letters with a Stanley knife and re arranged them to EVIL (or you could have VILE).
PP
# Posted on November 29th 2004 by Pied Piper
Re: The ultimate case sticker (and seisiún vs session)
We've got several at the Salt Lake Piping Clubs online store:
"The right of the people to keep and bear pipes shall not be infringed." (A take from the NRA)
http://www.cafepress.com/slpc.11119092
"Uilleann Piper" (modeled after the famous country ovals seen on car bumpers.)
http://www.cafepress.com/slpc.11079637
and various shirts, mugs, bags etc. Is this similar to what you had in mind?
# Posted on November 29th 2004 by uilleann_craic
Re: The ultimate case sticker (and seisiún vs session)
The best one I know of resides on the pipe case of a man who owns a 4-regulator Froment Bb set . It's an industrial-type caution sticker of the sort you might find on a big stamping press, milling machine or some other large piece of hideously expensive, complicated hydraulic or electrical equipment:
"DANGER !
Do not operate without reading the manual first.
Special care must be taken when operating the regulators."
# Posted on November 29th 2004 by Hanley
Re: The ultimate case sticker (and seisiún vs session)
uillean_craic, perhaps. But I'm a fiddler, so it will probably be fiddle stickers. (I like your piping club website, the sound files are great!)
cthuilleanpiper, that was a really good one!
# Posted on November 29th 2004 by Pontus Adefjord
Re: The ultimate case sticker (and seisiún vs session)
Reposted, in the right thread this time...
'stuck between baroque and a harp place'
# Posted on November 29th 2004 by Q
Re: The ultimate case sticker (and seisiún vs session)
As for the Irish vs. English, it doesn't really matter. Like "crack", "seisiún" was the way they Irish-ized the English. (My favorite is still the Irish for "banana".) This sort of thing happens when the language is still living.
My own working solution is to use all Irish if I'm using any Irish words, and all English if I'm using any English words, unless there is no equivalent word in one or the other language. I hope to look a little less twee that way, specially since I'm not an Irish speaker.
# Posted on November 29th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: The ultimate case sticker (and seisiún vs session)
I like the "Fiddler Crossing"...
a yellow sign with a silhouette of a fiddelr walking across
# Posted on November 29th 2004 by Sunnybear
Re: The ultimate case sticker (and seisiún vs session)
Two of my favorite stickers that I've seen on instrument cases:
"Tune it or die"
"Friends don't let friends vote Republican" (That's "republican" in American politics - not at all related to Irish nationalism)...
# Posted on November 29th 2004 by browndog
Re: The ultimate case sticker (and seisiún vs session)
"We tune because we care."
# Posted on November 29th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: The ultimate case sticker (and seisiún vs session)
Well, maybe my idea is a bit too obvious, but I'm surprised Zazzle don't do those kind of stickers - you know, the company Jeremy got to do those The Session.org T-shirts, because it would be nice to get a sticker with The Session.org logo (that would of course be spelt "session").
http://www.zazzle.com/products/product/product.asp?product%5Fid=235072874896351977
Would it be possible to get them custom made by a web-based company?
# Posted on November 30th 2004 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: The ultimate case sticker (and seisiún vs session)
Cafe Press does them, along with Christmas ornaments, bumper stickers, posters (framed and unframed), CDs, and a ton of other stuff.
# Posted on November 30th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: The ultimate case sticker (and seisiún vs session)
pobe... I was always lead to believe "crack" was what we have in our arses.... entirly different from the "good time" variety the irish gave us ;) (oops just ignore me if I'm being too giddy)
# Posted on November 30th 2004 by Skigersta
Re: The ultimate case sticker (and seisiún vs session)
I know a young fiddler who has a ladies' toilet sign on her fiddle case..... Could explain the great tone she gets off that fiddle.
BEWARE OF THE DOG!
# Posted on November 30th 2004 by granama
Re: The ultimate case sticker (and seisiún vs session)
EAR PROTECTORS MUST BE WORN
# Posted on November 30th 2004 by granama
Re: The ultimate case sticker (and seisiún vs session)
How about "If you do diddly, you'll never be idle."
# Posted on November 30th 2004 by whistlemanhimself
Re: The ultimate case sticker (and seisiún vs session)
Well, thanks for some nice suggestions. Perhaps I'll use "session" instead of "seisiún" (it does feel better, but I think it will become a design decision, I'll take what looks best).
# Posted on November 30th 2004 by Pontus Adefjord
Re: The ultimate case sticker (and seisiún vs session)
Yep - So Many Tunes So Little Time gets my vote. I'd buy a couple of those.
# Posted on November 30th 2004 by kris
Re: The ultimate case sticker (and seisiún vs session)
How about "I commit random acts of violins."
# Posted on November 30th 2004 by IC Keith
Re: The ultimate case sticker (and seisiún vs session)
Or perhaps a picture of Ged Foley with the message, "Ged is my copilot."
# Posted on November 30th 2004 by IC Keith
Re: The ultimate case sticker (and seisiún vs session)
"You have the right to remain silent!"
Jim
# Posted on November 30th 2004 by Worldfiddler
Re: The ultimate case sticker (and seisiún vs session)
Did something similar many years ago Pied Piper, mine read 'Musicians Union says Avoid Spoon Players' still on my old flute box come to think of it.
# Posted on November 30th 2004 by curlew
Re: The ultimate case sticker (and seisiún vs session)
How about 'I can lift it, I can play it, but I can't sit on the box'
# Posted on November 30th 2004 by curlew
Re: The ultimate case sticker (and seisiún vs session)
Pobe, I know of two very good bodhran players who only accompany tunes that they actually know well, albeit in their head.
# Posted on November 30th 2004 by curlew
Re: The ultimate case sticker (and seisiún vs session)
"Like "crack", "seisiún" was the way they Irish-ized the English." - umm, sorry, this is not true Zina. "Craic" is actually an ancient gaelic word that has been brought into the English language (not "Irish-ized" as you said). There is no single meaning for "craic", so it cannot be directly translated to English, as there is no single English word for it... it means: good fun / company, enjoyment, fun, banter, often associated with music "(ceol) agus craic"... So in truth "Craic" was DEFINITELY NOT taken from English, but infact taken from Gaelic and not even anglicised, but more brought into the English language, as it doesn't have a single meaning like the English word "crack" (unless you are crude, or use the "crack" cocaine drug term), so probably best sticking to "craic" ;)
With regards to the word seisiún, I would imagine this also comes from Gaelic word "séis" which means "music" or "singing", but I'm not sure if anyone has ever published this possible link, but that's my thinking on it. So I think I'll stick to "craic" and "seisiún" as much as I can. Hope this doesn't mean that Jeremy has to buy a new domain name :P
# Posted on November 30th 2004 by Murrough
Re: The ultimate case sticker (and seisiún vs session)
Yeah? Prove it. *grin* "Crack" in it's English form is traced back to the 1600's, boyo.
# Posted on November 30th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: The ultimate case sticker (and seisiún vs session)
We've had this discussion before, by the way. "Crack" is illustrably traced back to the English, some seaport originally, I think, but I haven't a copy of the Oxford anywhere...
# Posted on November 30th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: The ultimate case sticker (and seisiún vs session)
Damn you Zina Lee,(he he) I'm gonna have to go and prove this now, aren't I? I'll get on to it soon and let you know what the CRAIC is ;)
Murrough
# Posted on November 30th 2004 by Murrough
Re: The ultimate case sticker (and seisiún vs session)
LOL -- guess what? You're not the only obsessive compulsive around here, I just wrote Fintan Vallely to see if he'll tell us if he was pulling someone's leg with his quote in the Companion to Irish Traditional Music or not!
# Posted on November 30th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: The ultimate case sticker (and seisiún vs session)
Oh, btw, it was http://thesession.org/discussions/display.php/1335 that prompted that e-mail -- plus we've had others beside...
# Posted on November 30th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: The ultimate case sticker (and seisiún vs session)
Umm... for the moment, it would seem ur right, damn you Zina Lee!!! But I will delve later, but possibly not to much avail! Anyhow, well done and will keep you posted what the craic is
# Posted on November 30th 2004 by Murrough
Re: The ultimate case sticker (and seisiún vs session)
lol, oh what i meant to say was that all that I said prior to this (in this thread) would make the "ultimate case sticker"... does that stick? :P
# Posted on November 30th 2004 by Murrough
Re: The ultimate case sticker (and seisiún vs session)
Hey, didn't you know that I'm *always* right, Murrough? (That should be read *heavily* laden with irony and sarcasm, of course.) Let me know if you find anything (authoritative) to the contrary, I'd love to be proven wrong -- fer instance, wouldn't it be appealing to find that the reason "crack" can be traced to a seaport is because of Irish sailors? *sigh* A romantic story, but probably a story nonetheless...
# Posted on December 1st 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: The ultimate case sticker (and seisiún vs session)
The random acts of violins was a great one!
And I think, after trying, that for a sticker, obseisiún looks better than obsession. But I'm still not sure.
# Posted on December 1st 2004 by Pontus Adefjord
Stop the press!
Okay, I wrote Fintan Vallely, asking him if he was indeed pulling legs with his entry under the "craic" category in the Companion to Irish Traditional Music, and here's his reply -- enjoy, I certainly did! (And yes, he gave me permission to pass this on.
___________________________
Zina:
Yes and no . . . But mostly, emphatically, NO. The pisstake is only a device.
When I asked Caomhín Mac Aoidh (author of Between the jigs and the reels, on Donegal fiddling) what his opinion was, he gave the quote (which is attributed to him) Rather good I thought.
Yes, for the reasons outlined in the Companion article, the spelling 'craic' causes serious nausea among intelligent people. This glib spelling of the word was invented in the 1970s - All of the rest of the article is deadly serious (if you call railing against stupidity serious).
The article also makes it clear that it is the context of the use of the (recent, modern) Irish spelling of the word that is the issue - if 'craic' is to be used it should be used while writing in the Irish language, OR placed in parentheses or in italics when writing in English. I stress that this is a word which was NEVER in the Irish language (but cráic, meaning arsehole, or creac, meaning herd, are). The original word, crack, IS in fact old English and is still widely used in England and Scotland, and had moved from there to Ulster with the plantation in the 17th century.
I grew up using the word in the 1950s. When I went to Dublin (from Ulster) in 1968 NOBODY I met in Dublin used 'crack', but people from down south used 'gas' (a corruption of the Irish 'geas' meaning spell, or wonder, effectively the same thing). Crack only began to be used with the influx of northerners and in the context of music, it travelled with northern influence (at the fleadh cheoil, etc) until southern people began to believe that they had invented it. Ciarán Carson is particular enraged by the 'craic' spelling, so too Desi Wilkinson and many other otherwise tolerant souls. It is used largely by the kind of people who put signs outside bars such as "Chips and beens today", or "New potato's". But alarmingly 'craic' is used by younger journalists who cull their education from pub signs and only read press releases issued by CCÉ PR officers who because of the fact that many of them don't play actual music (ah, sure why should they have to?) they are obliged to think that at least some of the words that they speak are surely Irish - on account of the fact that CCÉ gets the bulk of its funding from the Irish government's Irish language budget. Another such word is 'seisiún', equally nauseating if used without italics in the English language. The implication of its usage is that 'seisiún' in its music sense is an Irish tradition. It is not. It probably started in the USA, and became a feature of Irish music life only in the revival years (post 1952). 'seisiún' is likely constructed from the English 'session'. It should be used properly only as a prefix to 'ceoil' (= a music session, as opposed to a drinking session, or a courting session) Originally, anyway, it is a borrowing of the word used for such as a 'court session', and like crack, intelligent reason should have demanded the usage of a proper Irish word for the concept of music session.
Someone else, who probably now is a fanatic agin smoking in bars, remarked to me that the English language in Irish journalism 'had' to re-spell crack as craic, to avoid confusion with the crack cocaine. Dear me! Using that as logic we should be changing half the words in the English language into babby-irish. I mean, look at what 'bush' means - literally and colloquially, And Irish music has 'the old bush reel'. Which do we re-name 'búis' or whatever. Anyway since the drug 'crack' is now found on Irish streets, and the Irish language is obliged to keep up with modern trends, the linguists have in fact gratuitously wasted an important word in their permission for the borrow-usage of 'craic' - rather a stupid thing since there are dozens of perfectly good and much more expressive words already in the Irish language to describe 'good fun'. I'm getting nauseous again.
Sincerely,
Fintan Vallely
# Posted on December 1st 2004 by Zina Lee