I'm a creature of habit and have played in the same session for years because I could get to it on my bicycle. Recently ventured afield in the car, though, and visited a couple of other sessions nearby that I knew nothing about until recently.
It's been helpful to play with some different musicians in sessions with rather different feels. My regular session can sometimes get a bit lively, the others have been a little more sedate. As a bodhrán player, it's an interesting challenge to come up with something that fits the general feel of each session. Don't think I've cracked it yet, but I think it's helping my playing. Even though my regular session varies from week to week, it's been good to get into a couple of sessions that just seem to work differently. I'm still more at home in my regular one, though, and expect I will be. The bicycle's got someting to do with it! And friends.
Anyone else play in different sessions that make different demands and offer different ways of enjoying playing?
Yes -- I spend a lot of time playing with the same group of people, so I feel like I really need to get out and about to play with other players to make sure that I *can*. ;)
Dirk, our piper, and I have played together more or less since we both started, and now we even will make the same mistakes at the same time and come up with similar variations, so we agreed we needed to get out and play with other folks more. But we'll always enjoy playing together, although he's just gotten a new Seth Gallagher set, and now I need to go through the scales with him because I was spot on his Kirk Lynch set, but not the Gallagher yet...
Relative size of the session in question is certainly a factor for me. When I go to a packed session -- upwards of 20 or more, for me, is "packed" -- I feel more as if I'm _participating in_ music rather than _playing_ music. Which isn't a bad thing, necessarily; it just means that I'm focusing less on how well I'm playing from a technical standpoint, and simply trying to hear myself amidst all the tumult and keep up in the process.
If it's a smaller-sized session, I'm a lot more self-conscious about how I sound, and I'm likely to focus more on subtleties and fine details in the tunes.
But there are other factors, too. Some of my session friends and acquaintances are contra dance musicians, so when I play with them (usually at house parties) I can expect to play a fair amount of New England and French-Canadian stuff than if I was at one of my typical pub sessions. I find my guitar style doesn't necessarily "fit" these kinds of tunes, so I'm often apt to pick up the mandolin or bouzouki and pick out the melody.
Intrigued by the last bit of your post, Zina. Which of the instruments that you play are you having to adjust to Dirk's new pipes? Why?
Interesting point, sts, about feeling like you're "participating" more than "playing" in a packed session. That's sort of what I was getting at about the recent, more sedate sessions I've been going to. I'm used to the participation feeling I get when playing in my regular more lively session (usually lively, that is. Sometimes we do do Sedate!). [Is there any way of doing italics on this forum?]
Some of you people living in cities must have the opportunity to go to many different sessions. Do you travel around them or stick to one group? Does it help your playing?
Oh -- well, it's very rare, insofar as I know, for a chanter to be spot on intonation-wise for the entire scale...it's always the tiniest bit sharp or flat on one note or another. (I assume this is true of most instruments, but especially true of winds?) I'm so used to the intonation of Dirk's Lynch set (and, I've found, most Lynch sets, so I guess Kirk's chanters are pretty uniform amongst themselves) that I adjust my own intonation on my fiddle accordingly without even thinking about it. With his new set, I'm going to have to consciously adjust the tuning I use on my fiddle so that we're on the same intonation. If I didn't play with him so often, I probably wouldn't bother.
I noticed the intonation differences when I played with Dirk on my visit to Colorado last month. We're talking fairly minor adjustments, but it's nice to be aware of them, and it's relatively easy to accommodate on fiddle. I've had the same experience with other pipers, fluters, and even box players.
I think playing with different people helps develop your ear. You have to listen closely because so much is unfamiliar, and it teaches you to pay attention to the nuances. I wish I had more opportunities to play in other sessions. But I'm also lucky that the roster of my own local session varies so much week to week. I get to sit in the same seat every week and play with a range of different people.
Box too? Really? I didn't realize that one, because I rarely get to play with box players, I suppose, more's the pity... Anyway, the fact that you noticed Dirk and I were off tune to each other makes me think I'd better go through the scale with him asap!
Think I'll make a batch of molasses chewies tonight for US instead of having to give 'em away immediately, Will! Yummmmm....thanks again for the recipe!
As well as bodhrán, I also play electric guitar with a double-locking tremelo. You can adjust the intonation on that, but it means adjusting the length of each string on its own saddle. But for you fiddle-players, do you mean adjusting where you stop the strings rather than meaning moving the bridge thingy?
And like you, Will, my regular session changes each time. But it's been interesting to be a "visitor" at a session. Different vibe.
Yes -- I mean that I change the placement of my fingers to play the same exact (as opposed to approximate) note as Dirk when we play together. It's been largely automatic before his new set, because we both really learned to play at the same time. As Will says, it's a fairly easy adjustment on the fiddle. I suppose I wouldn't worry about it overly much if we didn't perform in a group together, and only played at sessions together.
Zina, I meant I noticed I was adjusting *my* intonation to play with Dirk, not that you two were off with each other. And like I said, it was a fairly minor adjustment to make--Dirk's pipes sounded terrific and it was great fun playing with him (and all of you).
As a fiddler, I listen hard for the little slides and smears and half-holing idiosyncracies that fluters, whistlers, and pipers do and try to match them on fiddle. It not only helps me blend with them, but makes my fiddle sound more pipey or flutey, which is a good thing, I think, and something I admire in the playing of Tommy Peoples, James Cullinan, and Tony Linnane, and way back to Martin Rochford, Junior Crehan, and Bobby Casey.
How far do you go wih adjusting your intonation? Do you start fingering e's with the little pinkie on the A string etc to avoid the conflicts on open strings.
Also how far off are we talking about? Is it like an A at 444 versus 440, or is it even finer than that?
Does anyone have any ideas about which notes tend to be "RELATIVELY" flat or sharp on pipes without necessarily getting into the whole physics theory and the different pitch tunings for the scales?
In my experience, it's just a few notes of the scale, not the whole shebang. Playing with Dirk, I tweaked the c nat a little, and either the d or f sharp wanted to be right up against the upper end of its normal position. In other words, I made sure not to land flat. Mind you, these are the sorts of micro-adjustments fiddlers make all the time.
Well, *I* noticed we were off, that's for sure! ;) Thanks for the tip on which notes seemed off, Will, that'll help speed things up. Donough, if it's a note that happens to be an open string I play a lot, I'll just adjust the string as well as the rest of my fingers, but as Will says, usually it's just one or two notes that're off 440. (Dirk's new set, i think, has a hard D that's almost exactly at 440, as did his Lynch set.)
And again, i only worry about this because we perform together, and audiences generally expect melody instruments to be playing at the same pitch, more or less. If we were only sessioning together, it'd probably be different!
> Interesting point, sts, about feeling like you're "participating" more than "playing" in a packed session. That's sort of what I was getting at about the recent, more sedate sessions I've been going to. I'm used to the participation feeling I get when playing in my regular more lively session (usually lively, that is. Sometimes we do do Sedate!).
And I just want to reiterate that I am often quite perfectly _happy_ (psst, Greenman: I use underscores in lieu of italics) to "participate" in a packed session. The level of energy and the spirit are frequently as large as the number of people -- although that's not universally true -- especially when you've got a Larry Reynolds holding court. I also find that these kinds of sessions tend to focus more on the truly "traditional" tunes and sets; it feels very much as if we're getting back to the roots of the music.
>Some of you people living in cities must have the opportunity to go to many different sessions. Do you travel around them or stick to one group? Does it help your playing?
I think I definitely benefit by having a slew of pub or house sessions to go to (although it's never as often as I'd like). The smaller, more intimate sessions, for me, are challenging. You can't "hide" behind the volume of instrumentation at a packed session; I'm far more conscious, and conscientious, about how and what I play. But as I said earlier, I also take pleasure in finding and exploring the subleties of the music. And you are able to interact with the other musicians in a way that just isn't possible in a crowded room.
Yeah, Zina, I wouldn't go adjusting to Dirk's new chanter much until he has a solidly functioning reed in it. His latest efforts apparently have yielded reeds that are all in tune except for ONE note in the upper octave... Pipers, they're a strange breed
And speaking of... I think you're ALL a little nuts... I play banjo... Intonation schmintonation
And Will, the molasses chewies are wonderful... I've been instructed to thank you for that! (Although, I assume I'm also allowed to curse your name when I gain 5 pounds from eating them)
As for the original intent of this thread: I am really just a beginner, although, I have now played in four or five different session settings (always with either Zina or Dirk, thankfully), and find the variety to be interesting.
The MOST interesting was a recent session a long way from home. I had a chance to play at a session in San Francisco with Jack and the gang, and found it to be quite enjoyable! I would say that half of the tunes were ones that I'd never heard before, and many of the tunes that I did know were played differently.
Getting experience of a few sessions
Getting experience of a few sessions
I'm a creature of habit and have played in the same session for years because I could get to it on my bicycle. Recently ventured afield in the car, though, and visited a couple of other sessions nearby that I knew nothing about until recently.
It's been helpful to play with some different musicians in sessions with rather different feels. My regular session can sometimes get a bit lively, the others have been a little more sedate. As a bodhrán player, it's an interesting challenge to come up with something that fits the general feel of each session. Don't think I've cracked it yet, but I think it's helping my playing. Even though my regular session varies from week to week, it's been good to get into a couple of sessions that just seem to work differently. I'm still more at home in my regular one, though, and expect I will be. The bicycle's got someting to do with it! And friends.
Anyone else play in different sessions that make different demands and offer different ways of enjoying playing?
\())
# Posted on November 17th 2004 by greenman
Re: Getting experience of a few sessions
Yes -- I spend a lot of time playing with the same group of people, so I feel like I really need to get out and about to play with other players to make sure that I *can*. ;)
Dirk, our piper, and I have played together more or less since we both started, and now we even will make the same mistakes at the same time and come up with similar variations, so we agreed we needed to get out and play with other folks more. But we'll always enjoy playing together, although he's just gotten a new Seth Gallagher set, and now I need to go through the scales with him because I was spot on his Kirk Lynch set, but not the Gallagher yet...
# Posted on November 17th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Getting experience of a few sessions
Relative size of the session in question is certainly a factor for me. When I go to a packed session -- upwards of 20 or more, for me, is "packed" -- I feel more as if I'm _participating in_ music rather than _playing_ music. Which isn't a bad thing, necessarily; it just means that I'm focusing less on how well I'm playing from a technical standpoint, and simply trying to hear myself amidst all the tumult and keep up in the process.
If it's a smaller-sized session, I'm a lot more self-conscious about how I sound, and I'm likely to focus more on subtleties and fine details in the tunes.
But there are other factors, too. Some of my session friends and acquaintances are contra dance musicians, so when I play with them (usually at house parties) I can expect to play a fair amount of New England and French-Canadian stuff than if I was at one of my typical pub sessions. I find my guitar style doesn't necessarily "fit" these kinds of tunes, so I'm often apt to pick up the mandolin or bouzouki and pick out the melody.
# Posted on November 17th 2004 by sts
Re: Getting experience of a few sessions
Thanks Zina and Sts!
Intrigued by the last bit of your post, Zina. Which of the instruments that you play are you having to adjust to Dirk's new pipes? Why?
Interesting point, sts, about feeling like you're "participating" more than "playing" in a packed session. That's sort of what I was getting at about the recent, more sedate sessions I've been going to. I'm used to the participation feeling I get when playing in my regular more lively session (usually lively, that is. Sometimes we do do Sedate!). [Is there any way of doing italics on this forum?]
Some of you people living in cities must have the opportunity to go to many different sessions. Do you travel around them or stick to one group? Does it help your playing?
\())
# Posted on November 19th 2004 by greenman
Re: Getting experience of a few sessions
Oh -- well, it's very rare, insofar as I know, for a chanter to be spot on intonation-wise for the entire scale...it's always the tiniest bit sharp or flat on one note or another. (I assume this is true of most instruments, but especially true of winds?) I'm so used to the intonation of Dirk's Lynch set (and, I've found, most Lynch sets, so I guess Kirk's chanters are pretty uniform amongst themselves) that I adjust my own intonation on my fiddle accordingly without even thinking about it. With his new set, I'm going to have to consciously adjust the tuning I use on my fiddle so that we're on the same intonation. If I didn't play with him so often, I probably wouldn't bother.
# Posted on November 19th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Getting experience of a few sessions
I noticed the intonation differences when I played with Dirk on my visit to Colorado last month. We're talking fairly minor adjustments, but it's nice to be aware of them, and it's relatively easy to accommodate on fiddle. I've had the same experience with other pipers, fluters, and even box players.
I think playing with different people helps develop your ear. You have to listen closely because so much is unfamiliar, and it teaches you to pay attention to the nuances. I wish I had more opportunities to play in other sessions. But I'm also lucky that the roster of my own local session varies so much week to week. I get to sit in the same seat every week and play with a range of different people.
# Posted on November 19th 2004 by Will Harmon
Re: Getting experience of a few sessions
Box too? Really? I didn't realize that one, because I rarely get to play with box players, I suppose, more's the pity... Anyway, the fact that you noticed Dirk and I were off tune to each other makes me think I'd better go through the scale with him asap!
Think I'll make a batch of molasses chewies tonight for US instead of having to give 'em away immediately, Will! Yummmmm....thanks again for the recipe!
# Posted on November 19th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Getting experience of a few sessions
As well as bodhrán, I also play electric guitar with a double-locking tremelo. You can adjust the intonation on that, but it means adjusting the length of each string on its own saddle. But for you fiddle-players, do you mean adjusting where you stop the strings rather than meaning moving the bridge thingy?
And like you, Will, my regular session changes each time. But it's been interesting to be a "visitor" at a session. Different vibe.
\())
# Posted on November 19th 2004 by greenman
Re: Getting experience of a few sessions
Yes -- I mean that I change the placement of my fingers to play the same exact (as opposed to approximate) note as Dirk when we play together. It's been largely automatic before his new set, because we both really learned to play at the same time. As Will says, it's a fairly easy adjustment on the fiddle. I suppose I wouldn't worry about it overly much if we didn't perform in a group together, and only played at sessions together.
# Posted on November 19th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Getting experience of a few sessions
Zina, I meant I noticed I was adjusting *my* intonation to play with Dirk, not that you two were off with each other. And like I said, it was a fairly minor adjustment to make--Dirk's pipes sounded terrific and it was great fun playing with him (and all of you).
As a fiddler, I listen hard for the little slides and smears and half-holing idiosyncracies that fluters, whistlers, and pipers do and try to match them on fiddle. It not only helps me blend with them, but makes my fiddle sound more pipey or flutey, which is a good thing, I think, and something I admire in the playing of Tommy Peoples, James Cullinan, and Tony Linnane, and way back to Martin Rochford, Junior Crehan, and Bobby Casey.
# Posted on November 19th 2004 by Will Harmon
Re: Getting experience of a few sessions
How far do you go wih adjusting your intonation? Do you start fingering e's with the little pinkie on the A string etc to avoid the conflicts on open strings.
Also how far off are we talking about? Is it like an A at 444 versus 440, or is it even finer than that?
Does anyone have any ideas about which notes tend to be "RELATIVELY" flat or sharp on pipes without necessarily getting into the whole physics theory and the different pitch tunings for the scales?
# Posted on November 19th 2004 by Donough
Re: Getting experience of a few sessions
In my experience, it's just a few notes of the scale, not the whole shebang. Playing with Dirk, I tweaked the c nat a little, and either the d or f sharp wanted to be right up against the upper end of its normal position. In other words, I made sure not to land flat. Mind you, these are the sorts of micro-adjustments fiddlers make all the time.
# Posted on November 19th 2004 by Will Harmon
Re: Getting experience of a few sessions
Well, *I* noticed we were off, that's for sure! ;) Thanks for the tip on which notes seemed off, Will, that'll help speed things up. Donough, if it's a note that happens to be an open string I play a lot, I'll just adjust the string as well as the rest of my fingers, but as Will says, usually it's just one or two notes that're off 440. (Dirk's new set, i think, has a hard D that's almost exactly at 440, as did his Lynch set.)
And again, i only worry about this because we perform together, and audiences generally expect melody instruments to be playing at the same pitch, more or less. If we were only sessioning together, it'd probably be different!
# Posted on November 19th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Getting experience of a few sessions
> Interesting point, sts, about feeling like you're "participating" more than "playing" in a packed session. That's sort of what I was getting at about the recent, more sedate sessions I've been going to. I'm used to the participation feeling I get when playing in my regular more lively session (usually lively, that is. Sometimes we do do Sedate!).
And I just want to reiterate that I am often quite perfectly _happy_ (psst, Greenman: I use underscores in lieu of italics) to "participate" in a packed session. The level of energy and the spirit are frequently as large as the number of people -- although that's not universally true -- especially when you've got a Larry Reynolds holding court. I also find that these kinds of sessions tend to focus more on the truly "traditional" tunes and sets; it feels very much as if we're getting back to the roots of the music.
>Some of you people living in cities must have the opportunity to go to many different sessions. Do you travel around them or stick to one group? Does it help your playing?
I think I definitely benefit by having a slew of pub or house sessions to go to (although it's never as often as I'd like). The smaller, more intimate sessions, for me, are challenging. You can't "hide" behind the volume of instrumentation at a packed session; I'm far more conscious, and conscientious, about how and what I play. But as I said earlier, I also take pleasure in finding and exploring the subleties of the music. And you are able to interact with the other musicians in a way that just isn't possible in a crowded room.
# Posted on November 19th 2004 by sts
Re: Getting experience of a few sessions
Yeah, Zina, I wouldn't go adjusting to Dirk's new chanter much until he has a solidly functioning reed in it. His latest efforts apparently have yielded reeds that are all in tune except for ONE note in the upper octave... Pipers, they're a strange breed
And speaking of... I think you're ALL a little nuts... I play banjo... Intonation schmintonation
And Will, the molasses chewies are wonderful... I've been instructed to thank you for that! (Although, I assume I'm also allowed to curse your name when I gain 5 pounds from eating them)
As for the original intent of this thread: I am really just a beginner, although, I have now played in four or five different session settings (always with either Zina or Dirk, thankfully), and find the variety to be interesting.
The MOST interesting was a recent session a long way from home. I had a chance to play at a session in San Francisco with Jack and the gang, and found it to be quite enjoyable! I would say that half of the tunes were ones that I'd never heard before, and many of the tunes that I did know were played differently.
Pete
# Posted on November 20th 2004 by Reverend
Re: Getting experience of a few sessions
*sigh* oh god, I suppose this means I'm going to have to start watching what I say about the husband, yeah? ;)
# Posted on November 20th 2004 by Zina Lee