i am not the best at dropping notes, but i'm ok. its of course easier to cut short notes. there are some tunes that you really cant cut short notes cuz there are no long notes in one section or something, and then i get lost and it takes me a lot of effort to drop them right. some tunes i can drop even though they're straight 8th's without a problem, and others i have a lot of trouble, especially getting back in time and notforgetting where i was.
so i decided to use a bodhran trick. i dont know if everyone does this on the bodhran, or no, but eddie cotter taught my brother this. when you skip a bit or syncopate, still move your hand as if you were going to hit the drum just dont make contact. because stopping your hand will throw you out of wack, and then make you mess up. so what i've started doing on the flute is when i breath and drop a note, i still finger the note. so my fingers dont stop moving, and it sounds great, and i dont lose the time.
i dont know if you all thought of it but i'm sure a couple of you might be having a similar problem and it has really helped me so i hope it helps some people.
You want to leave your fingers free for finger vibrato, taps, slides and setting up other effects when you drop a note to breath. By false-fingering them, you give up a lot of possiblities.
I did this for a while, and was (gently) corrected by my teacher.
but how much time is there while playing a reel/jig to use vibrato? If you're breathing anyways, then perhaps it doesn't matter what your fingers are doing since you are not making a sound?
Comming back in though after dropping a note...I guess your fingers should be ready to slide into to or to grace it.
It's so natural for me, because I grew up playing trumpet. YOu just really have to practice it alot, I guess.
Now, I am speaking as primarily a low-whistle player, but, why do you need fingers for vibrato? Does the fact that you have to pay attention to your embouchure and stuff not allow you to get a good vibrato? I find on the low-d whistle I can do practically anything I wish with my vibrato, even pulsating in time with foot taps, and it comes natural. A bit painful after a whole lot of long drawn-out notes (say 3 times through The Road East at a very slow clip), but still.
Here's the thing: when you talk -- are you thinking about where you're taking breaths? When learning flute, you practice putting in the breath- notes and "dropping notes". After you've done it for a while they will happen as naturally as when you speak. It's awkward at first, but just keep at it until one day the problem will seem to disappear.
Never really thought about the moving the hands thing while breathing. Just a brief note about the vibrato. I come from a classical background, but have learned that Irish vibrato is done with the fingers, not the throat or diaphragm. I think the rule of thumb is to use the second finger below the last covered hole (i.e. when playing a G, use the right middle finger for vibrato). I'm sure everybody has their own preference with this.
Jason, every note on every flute may require a different fingering to get the right sound for the vibrato. Moreover, flutes are different, so what works on one may not work on another. That's why it's sometimes tough to pick up a new flute and play it.
But, the rule of thumb you mention is certainly a good starting point for each note as you experiment.
By the way, do you know the origin of the phrase "rule of thumb?" -- it was the maximum diameter of a branch or stick that could be used to beat your wife. About the same as the diameter of a flute. You don't beat your wife with your flute do you? 8-P
I tend to waiver several fingers above the holes if possible (e.g. vibrato on G), the effect is much more pronoucned.
Actually, I do beat my wife with my flute. It's a polymer flute, so it gets through the situation unscathed. Wish the same could be said about the wife. J/k (obviously). Not married, not naturally aggressive, but am a fan of random tasteless jokes.
Eliot, interesting about the vibrato. Guess that's one thing I really haven't experimented much with. Add that to the list of things to do.
yes, dropping a note to breath. i am not saying it is a forever thing, and i dont do it in every tune. i only do it when the tune is too many notes and in such a way that stopping to breath ruins the flow. there are some reels i can play fast, breath, without dropping a note and without shortening long notes, and there are some jigs i cant play slow without dropping a note to breathe.
jack gilder- i agree with what you said about it coming naturally. this is just a trick to get used to it. because as i'm getting used to dropping notes to breathe, i get lost when i drop a note. my finger keeps my place. it kind of bothers me when i do it, and i dont like the feel of it, but if the choice is dropping it and forgetting where i am or dropping it and feeling weird for half a second, i'll go with the second one. if i dont lose my place i can play around more with where to drop and learn how to do it naturally, as you said.
eliot - i suppose i am very flexible. and am always willing to relearn how to do everything i know on something. whether it be a language, or an instrument, or a way of thinking. so i guess i didnt even realize that i meant to drop this habit in a couple months once it served its usefulness. i'm not sure if everyone likes doing that, teaching themself something to forget it, but i'm weird, and i do. it really doestn slow me down either to do stuff like that, for some reason.
Take your favorite reel and manually mark in the places where you want to breathe and drop a note, and play it over and over until you get each breath in time (without moving your fingers to the dropped note).
Another exercise to do is to play a 2 measure part of a 4/4 tune over and over again, and to drop each note of the measure in turn and take a breath there. So, it looks like this (for two measures):
b 2 3 4, 1 2 3 4
1 b 3 4, 1 2 3 4
1 2 b 4, 1 2 3 4
1 2 3 b, 1 2 3 4
1 2 3 4, b 2 3 4
1 2 3 4, 1 b 3 4
1 2 3 4, 1 2 b 4
1 2 3 4, 1 2 3 b
Sally Gardens is great for both these exercises.
After doing these a few hundred times, it gets a lot easier to breath whenever you want to and make it sound rhythmic.
> i only do it when the tune is too many notes
> and in such a way that stopping to breath
> ruins the flow.
Hmmm. Breathing is part of the phrasing, to my understanding. You might ought to be breaking up the "flow" even more. And you don't want to just skip notes without it being part of the phrasing, IMHO. That's part of what Irish flute playing is about. The empty spaces are as important as the notes, part of the music.
Imagine hearing a person that just tried to sneak in breaths, but otherwise tried to go as long as possible without breaks to their voice.
I think just continuing on with the fingering during a breath will not help you think about constructing phrases. I was also told by my teacher this isn't such a great thing to do.
I mean, I find that on low-d whistle, and even on Bb whistle, I have no need to use finger vibrato. I can do everything with my lungs just fine. I can vary it to be any way I want, from pronounced to subtle, fast to slow, even in beat with the music. It just came naturally one day. can you not do this on the flute? or is this level of lung/throat control uncommon?
Well,sure,you can do the lung/throat vibrato on the flute,but in Irish music you generally don't. For whatever reason,finger vibrato is used more often.The lung/throat(I think it's really mostly throat.) vibrato is a classical thing.
Or, if you're the sort that likes to keep a pint handy while you play, you might want to learn how to drop notes for a quick burp. Done right, this can be a great addition to all but the most elitist sessions. (Not that I have any issues with elitists - just saying, is all.)
it's not really mostly throat, I can attest to this from personal experience. It is possible to do it in the throat, sure, that';s one way, but it's not the way I do it, and I think it sounds better the way I do it.
I know that finger vibrato is more traditional than breath vibrato, but I find that finger vibrato, because it is flattening the held note, tends to make you sound flat in relation to the other instruments.
Breath vibrato, on the other hand, oscillates above and below the held note, and therefore keeps you in tune with the others.
I've been struggling at times in a session where everyone is so out of tune with everyone else that it really sounds dreadfull to discerning listeners and I will play so as to not contribute to the out-of-tunedness.
Chris
finger vibrato, used properly, should not make the note sound flat, because you really are not supposed to cover up the entire hole...it's more of a flick, like when doing a roll.
dropping notes on flute
dropping notes on flute
i am not the best at dropping notes, but i'm ok. its of course easier to cut short notes. there are some tunes that you really cant cut short notes cuz there are no long notes in one section or something, and then i get lost and it takes me a lot of effort to drop them right. some tunes i can drop even though they're straight 8th's without a problem, and others i have a lot of trouble, especially getting back in time and notforgetting where i was.
so i decided to use a bodhran trick. i dont know if everyone does this on the bodhran, or no, but eddie cotter taught my brother this. when you skip a bit or syncopate, still move your hand as if you were going to hit the drum just dont make contact. because stopping your hand will throw you out of wack, and then make you mess up. so what i've started doing on the flute is when i breath and drop a note, i still finger the note. so my fingers dont stop moving, and it sounds great, and i dont lose the time.
i dont know if you all thought of it but i'm sure a couple of you might be having a similar problem and it has really helped me so i hope it helps some people.
# Posted on October 23rd 2004 by daiv
Re: dropping notes on flute
Nice tip, except now I have to learn how to inhale and move my fingers at the same time.
# Posted on October 23rd 2004 by Will CPT
Re: dropping notes on flute
This is a bad habit.
You want to leave your fingers free for finger vibrato, taps, slides and setting up other effects when you drop a note to breath. By false-fingering them, you give up a lot of possiblities.
I did this for a while, and was (gently) corrected by my teacher.
--Eliot
# Posted on October 24th 2004 by Eliot
Re: dropping notes on flute
but how much time is there while playing a reel/jig to use vibrato? If you're breathing anyways, then perhaps it doesn't matter what your fingers are doing since you are not making a sound?
Comming back in though after dropping a note...I guess your fingers should be ready to slide into to or to grace it.
so in conclusion...I am undecided.
# Posted on October 24th 2004 by BTCpz
Re: dropping notes on flute
He's talking about dropping notes to take a breath I think.
# Posted on October 24th 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: dropping notes on flute
yes, he is.
It's so natural for me, because I grew up playing trumpet. YOu just really have to practice it alot, I guess.
Now, I am speaking as primarily a low-whistle player, but, why do you need fingers for vibrato? Does the fact that you have to pay attention to your embouchure and stuff not allow you to get a good vibrato? I find on the low-d whistle I can do practically anything I wish with my vibrato, even pulsating in time with foot taps, and it comes natural. A bit painful after a whole lot of long drawn-out notes (say 3 times through The Road East at a very slow clip), but still.
# Posted on October 24th 2004 by sifudave54
Re: dropping notes on flute
Here's the thing: when you talk -- are you thinking about where you're taking breaths? When learning flute, you practice putting in the breath- notes and "dropping notes". After you've done it for a while they will happen as naturally as when you speak. It's awkward at first, but just keep at it until one day the problem will seem to disappear.
# Posted on October 24th 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: dropping notes on flute
he means finger vibrato....moving a finger up and down on a hole not being used, creates a type of vibrato...I use it on the whistle and the flute.
# Posted on October 24th 2004 by BTCpz
Re: dropping notes on flute
Why would you call finger vibrato "dropping notes"?
# Posted on October 24th 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: dropping notes on flute
Or are you referring to what sifudave54 said?
# Posted on October 24th 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: dropping notes on flute
i was returning...
sorry for the confusion.
# Posted on October 24th 2004 by BTCpz
Re: dropping notes on flute
Never really thought about the moving the hands thing while breathing. Just a brief note about the vibrato. I come from a classical background, but have learned that Irish vibrato is done with the fingers, not the throat or diaphragm. I think the rule of thumb is to use the second finger below the last covered hole (i.e. when playing a G, use the right middle finger for vibrato). I'm sure everybody has their own preference with this.
# Posted on October 24th 2004 by Jason G
Re: dropping notes on flute
Jason, every note on every flute may require a different fingering to get the right sound for the vibrato. Moreover, flutes are different, so what works on one may not work on another. That's why it's sometimes tough to pick up a new flute and play it.
But, the rule of thumb you mention is certainly a good starting point for each note as you experiment.
By the way, do you know the origin of the phrase "rule of thumb?" -- it was the maximum diameter of a branch or stick that could be used to beat your wife. About the same as the diameter of a flute. You don't beat your wife with your flute do you? 8-P
I tend to waiver several fingers above the holes if possible (e.g. vibrato on G), the effect is much more pronoucned.
--Eliot
# Posted on October 24th 2004 by Eliot
Re: dropping notes on flute
Actually, I do beat my wife with my flute. It's a polymer flute, so it gets through the situation unscathed. Wish the same could be said about the wife. J/k (obviously). Not married, not naturally aggressive, but am a fan of random tasteless jokes.
Eliot, interesting about the vibrato. Guess that's one thing I really haven't experimented much with. Add that to the list of things to do.
# Posted on October 24th 2004 by Jason G
Re: dropping notes on flute
yes, dropping a note to breath. i am not saying it is a forever thing, and i dont do it in every tune. i only do it when the tune is too many notes and in such a way that stopping to breath ruins the flow. there are some reels i can play fast, breath, without dropping a note and without shortening long notes, and there are some jigs i cant play slow without dropping a note to breathe.
jack gilder- i agree with what you said about it coming naturally. this is just a trick to get used to it. because as i'm getting used to dropping notes to breathe, i get lost when i drop a note. my finger keeps my place. it kind of bothers me when i do it, and i dont like the feel of it, but if the choice is dropping it and forgetting where i am or dropping it and feeling weird for half a second, i'll go with the second one. if i dont lose my place i can play around more with where to drop and learn how to do it naturally, as you said.
eliot - i suppose i am very flexible. and am always willing to relearn how to do everything i know on something. whether it be a language, or an instrument, or a way of thinking. so i guess i didnt even realize that i meant to drop this habit in a couple months once it served its usefulness. i'm not sure if everyone likes doing that, teaching themself something to forget it, but i'm weird, and i do. it really doestn slow me down either to do stuff like that, for some reason.
# Posted on October 24th 2004 by daiv
Re: dropping notes on flute
Here are a couple of exercises:
Take your favorite reel and manually mark in the places where you want to breathe and drop a note, and play it over and over until you get each breath in time (without moving your fingers to the dropped note).
Another exercise to do is to play a 2 measure part of a 4/4 tune over and over again, and to drop each note of the measure in turn and take a breath there. So, it looks like this (for two measures):
b 2 3 4, 1 2 3 4
1 b 3 4, 1 2 3 4
1 2 b 4, 1 2 3 4
1 2 3 b, 1 2 3 4
1 2 3 4, b 2 3 4
1 2 3 4, 1 b 3 4
1 2 3 4, 1 2 b 4
1 2 3 4, 1 2 3 b
Sally Gardens is great for both these exercises.
After doing these a few hundred times, it gets a lot easier to breath whenever you want to and make it sound rhythmic.
BOL,
--Eliot
# Posted on October 24th 2004 by Eliot
Re: dropping notes on flute
> i only do it when the tune is too many notes
> and in such a way that stopping to breath
> ruins the flow.
Hmmm. Breathing is part of the phrasing, to my understanding. You might ought to be breaking up the "flow" even more. And you don't want to just skip notes without it being part of the phrasing, IMHO. That's part of what Irish flute playing is about. The empty spaces are as important as the notes, part of the music.
Imagine hearing a person that just tried to sneak in breaths, but otherwise tried to go as long as possible without breaks to their voice.
I think just continuing on with the fingering during a breath will not help you think about constructing phrases. I was also told by my teacher this isn't such a great thing to do.
-scott
# Posted on October 25th 2004 by sboag5
Re: dropping notes on flute
ok, let me better clarify what I meant.
I mean, I find that on low-d whistle, and even on Bb whistle, I have no need to use finger vibrato. I can do everything with my lungs just fine. I can vary it to be any way I want, from pronounced to subtle, fast to slow, even in beat with the music. It just came naturally one day. can you not do this on the flute? or is this level of lung/throat control uncommon?
# Posted on October 25th 2004 by sifudave54
Re: dropping notes on flute
Well,sure,you can do the lung/throat vibrato on the flute,but in Irish music you generally don't. For whatever reason,finger vibrato is used more often.The lung/throat(I think it's really mostly throat.) vibrato is a classical thing.
-Kelly
# Posted on October 25th 2004 by seisflutes
Re: dropping notes on flute
Or, if you're the sort that likes to keep a pint handy while you play, you might want to learn how to drop notes for a quick burp. Done right, this can be a great addition to all but the most elitist sessions. (Not that I have any issues with elitists - just saying, is all.)
# Posted on October 25th 2004 by Gzeg
Re: dropping notes on flute
it's not really mostly throat, I can attest to this from personal experience. It is possible to do it in the throat, sure, that';s one way, but it's not the way I do it, and I think it sounds better the way I do it.
# Posted on October 25th 2004 by sifudave54
Re: dropping notes on flute
I know that finger vibrato is more traditional than breath vibrato, but I find that finger vibrato, because it is flattening the held note, tends to make you sound flat in relation to the other instruments.
Breath vibrato, on the other hand, oscillates above and below the held note, and therefore keeps you in tune with the others.
I've been struggling at times in a session where everyone is so out of tune with everyone else that it really sounds dreadfull to discerning listeners and I will play so as to not contribute to the out-of-tunedness.
Chris
# Posted on October 26th 2004 by unique
Re: dropping notes on flute
finger vibrato, used properly, should not make the note sound flat, because you really are not supposed to cover up the entire hole...it's more of a flick, like when doing a roll.
# Posted on October 26th 2004 by BTCpz