Is there an advantage to using gut strings for very old violins? Were violins built before a certain decade designed for and sold with gut strings? I want a rather quiet sound which will allow me to use more bow. I have used La Bella gut strings on my 100 year old german fiddle, but I am thinking of buying an older one. Does anyone usually play with gut strings? Also, any suggestions for the E string?
Synthetic gut will be better than true gut. Natural gut strings are less stable and long lasting. Also less responsive. An advantage of these over steel strings with an old violin would be less stress on the neck. Newer, healthier instruments can handle steel fine, but older ones might have some neck drift with the higher tension. Unless your fiddle's really well-made with a finely graduated top, expect it to be less responsive with synthetic strings.
Depends on your playing style. True gut give a sweet and warm tone, but I find they can be tempramental and prone to squeaking when attacked hard. They're too 'elasticky' for my liking.
If its a good fiddle, why not try Obligato synthetic gut? Expensive, but in my opinion the best strings by far all across the playing spectrum.
Very old (e.g. pre-1800) fiddles and cellos used today will have been taken apart and rebuilt a few times in their lifetime; in the course of which you may be fairly sure they will have been strengthened to cope with the requirements of modern playing, a higher pitch, and non-gut strings.
In many instances the old fingerboard will have been replaced by a longer one and things done to the neck to give a higher angle to the fingerboard. The base bar on the underside of the belly will probably have been lengthened to give a bigger tone - the fitting of the base bar should be checked anyway every few years.
If you come across that rarity, a very old fiddle which is in its pristine condition and hasn't been upgraded, then you have a real find which should be treasured, and, I suggest, kept as far as possible in its original condition. It would require inspection, of course, and would probably need taking apart to repair any cracks or dried-out glue, etc, but should be a delight to play with gut strings at baroque pitch (A-415 or thereabouts) with a replica bow of the period (and without shoulder-rest and chin-rest, if you don't mind!).
In the course of preparing for the recording, Ma had to re-learn his bowing technique for this period playing and also - and this is an interesting point - learn the baroque intonation.
I've got a 200 year old fiddle that won't take the tension of modern strings (no modern neckblock). The Luthier recommended that I use only gut strings. As far as Gut strings go, they are EXTREMELY temperamental with incredibly slow response time. I'll re-tuned the thing 20 times before I'll re-tune steel or synthetic strings once. Trebles in fast tunes are incredibly difficult to pull off (impossible for me).
PAIN THE THE ......
On the other hand, they have a very mellow sound. A (classically trained) friend of mine played a slow air that she said "never sounded sweeter" on any other fiddle.
The Obligato mentioned above is a good choice. Violinists bottle feed on gut usely jump ship when they get a hold of the Obligato. Lots of the same (though fewer) tonal ranges. The Violino by the same company (Pirastro) is an extra quiet string.
They also have a great sounding Aricore (sweet, dark, mellow).
I have a 1790-sometime violin that has been restored and set up as a baroque fiddle, stopping short of changing the neck angle, thought the fingerboard has been replaced with a more authentic shorter one and a flat tailpiece put on. I also have another fiddle of similar age in fairly fragile condition which seemed to have escaped 'modernisation'.
I use Pirastro Oliv gut strings on both and even in Sydney's completely ridiculous weather, they honestly don't give too much trouble at all.
Gut players don't use steel e-strings, they're gut too, and it's worth buying one extra e when you buy a set as they can be a little fragile. That said, I've only broken one on each fiddle in about two years, though neither fiddle gets heavy use.
As for response, it's a bit hard to comment because I never play either fiddle with a modern bow. You've only got to listen to top baroque players to hear what gut strings can do, but then they're playing them all the time and are well used to them.
Hey Russell. Its your buddy Sean. I used Obligatos for several years on my Czech fiddle with good results. I found Concord Music had the best price for those very $$$ strings. I still haven't found a string I like for my 1748 Klotz though.
Cheers
gut strings for old violins
gut strings for old violins
Is there an advantage to using gut strings for very old violins? Were violins built before a certain decade designed for and sold with gut strings? I want a rather quiet sound which will allow me to use more bow. I have used La Bella gut strings on my 100 year old german fiddle, but I am thinking of buying an older one. Does anyone usually play with gut strings? Also, any suggestions for the E string?
# Posted on October 13th 2004 by russellrapport
Re: gut strings for old violins
Synthetic gut will be better than true gut. Natural gut strings are less stable and long lasting. Also less responsive. An advantage of these over steel strings with an old violin would be less stress on the neck. Newer, healthier instruments can handle steel fine, but older ones might have some neck drift with the higher tension. Unless your fiddle's really well-made with a finely graduated top, expect it to be less responsive with synthetic strings.
# Posted on October 13th 2004 by meemtp
Re: gut strings for old violins
Depends on your playing style. True gut give a sweet and warm tone, but I find they can be tempramental and prone to squeaking when attacked hard. They're too 'elasticky' for my liking.
If its a good fiddle, why not try Obligato synthetic gut? Expensive, but in my opinion the best strings by far all across the playing spectrum.
Jim
# Posted on October 13th 2004 by Worldfiddler
Re: gut strings for old violins
Very old (e.g. pre-1800) fiddles and cellos used today will have been taken apart and rebuilt a few times in their lifetime; in the course of which you may be fairly sure they will have been strengthened to cope with the requirements of modern playing, a higher pitch, and non-gut strings.
In many instances the old fingerboard will have been replaced by a longer one and things done to the neck to give a higher angle to the fingerboard. The base bar on the underside of the belly will probably have been lengthened to give a bigger tone - the fitting of the base bar should be checked anyway every few years.
If you come across that rarity, a very old fiddle which is in its pristine condition and hasn't been upgraded, then you have a real find which should be treasured, and, I suggest, kept as far as possible in its original condition. It would require inspection, of course, and would probably need taking apart to repair any cracks or dried-out glue, etc, but should be a delight to play with gut strings at baroque pitch (A-415 or thereabouts) with a replica bow of the period (and without shoulder-rest and chin-rest, if you don't mind!).
A few years ago the famous cellist Yo-Yo Ma made a recording of some of Bach's cello works with Ton Koopman, the Dutch baroque orchestra specialist. For this recording he used a Stradivari cello (the one that had belonged to Jacqueline Du Pré). However, in its modern set-up it was unsuitable for such Ton Koopman's orchestra because it had a loud brilliant tone intended to be heard over a symphony orchestra in a 3000-seat hall. The instrument was accordingly modified to bring it back to something approaching the tonal quality and volume that would have been heard in the early 18th century. The modifications included a different bridge and gut strings, a lower pitch, and playing it without the modern floor pin (which Ma apparently found the most difficult thing to get used to!). The insurers wouldn't permit major modifications to the neck and fingerboard, but the end result was considered a reasonable approximation to the baroque sound - thinner and quieter than what we're used to today. Afterwards, of course, the instrument was returned to its modern format.
In the course of preparing for the recording, Ma had to re-learn his bowing technique for this period playing and also - and this is an interesting point - learn the baroque intonation.
Trevor
# Posted on October 13th 2004 by Trevor Jennings
Re: gut strings for old violins
I've got a 200 year old fiddle that won't take the tension of modern strings (no modern neckblock). The Luthier recommended that I use only gut strings. As far as Gut strings go, they are EXTREMELY temperamental with incredibly slow response time. I'll re-tuned the thing 20 times before I'll re-tune steel or synthetic strings once. Trebles in fast tunes are incredibly difficult to pull off (impossible for me).
PAIN THE THE ......
On the other hand, they have a very mellow sound. A (classically trained) friend of mine played a slow air that she said "never sounded sweeter" on any other fiddle.
The Obligato mentioned above is a good choice. Violinists bottle feed on gut usely jump ship when they get a hold of the Obligato. Lots of the same (though fewer) tonal ranges. The Violino by the same company (Pirastro) is an extra quiet string.
They also have a great sounding Aricore (sweet, dark, mellow).
I think all e-strings are steel.
# Posted on October 14th 2004 by scottcantrell
Re: gut strings for old violins
I have a 1790-sometime violin that has been restored and set up as a baroque fiddle, stopping short of changing the neck angle, thought the fingerboard has been replaced with a more authentic shorter one and a flat tailpiece put on. I also have another fiddle of similar age in fairly fragile condition which seemed to have escaped 'modernisation'.
I use Pirastro Oliv gut strings on both and even in Sydney's completely ridiculous weather, they honestly don't give too much trouble at all.
Gut players don't use steel e-strings, they're gut too, and it's worth buying one extra e when you buy a set as they can be a little fragile. That said, I've only broken one on each fiddle in about two years, though neither fiddle gets heavy use.
As for response, it's a bit hard to comment because I never play either fiddle with a modern bow. You've only got to listen to top baroque players to hear what gut strings can do, but then they're playing them all the time and are well used to them.
# Posted on October 14th 2004 by Tish
Re: gut strings for old violins
Sorry, that's Pirastro Chorda, not Oliv!
# Posted on October 14th 2004 by Tish
Re: gut strings for old violins
I have a 170 years old, and I just use the cheapest strings I can find in the music stores.
# Posted on October 14th 2004 by Gard
Re: gut strings for old violins
Thanks for all the advice. I will try the Obligatos first, I think.
# Posted on October 14th 2004 by russellrapport
Re: gut strings for old violins
Hey Russell. Its your buddy Sean. I used Obligatos for several years on my Czech fiddle with good results. I found Concord Music had the best price for those very $$$ strings. I still haven't found a string I like for my 1748 Klotz though.
Cheers
# Posted on October 15th 2004 by txfiddler