I'd like to replace the strings on my fiddle, and feel that all need replacing. I've only ever changed one at a time.How do I go about doing this,if I take all the strings off, the bridge will move out of place.Sorry to be asking ,what I'm sure is a question with an obvious answer, but I don't know what to do.
Just change one string at a time till you've replaced all four.
IF you're going to change all four, here's the routine I usually follow.
1. Loosen all the strings, taking them down a whole step in pitch, starting with the E string, then the A string, D, and G, then dropping another whole step starting with the E again. (Otherwise, if you loosen the A and D strings, say, without loosening the E string, the E string can break under the suddenly increased tension. It's also hard on the bridge.)
2. Remove the A string. Wipe the exposed fingerboard with a soft cloth, and rub a pencil lead in the nut groove to reduce friction for the new string.
3. Put the new A string on. (Trevor's given detailed advice here before about how to wind it on the peg so it doesn't bind or tend to loosen itself.)
4. Bring the new string up to a couple of pitches below standard pitch--just enought tension to help hold the bridge in place.
5. Repeat steps 2-4 with the D string, then the G string, then the E string.
6. Check the bridge to make sure it's not leaning. The side of the bridge facing the tailpiece should be at 90 degrees to the top of the fiddle. Use your fingers to straighten it, without moving the feet of the bridge, before you bring the strings up to full tension. Also pay attention during the whole process to make sure the bridge doesn't shift from side to side (closer to one f-hole than the other).
7. Bring the strings up to pitch, refering to a reliable source. Start with the A string, then D, then G, then E. This will take a few times around as the strings relax and the fiddle adjusts to being under full tension again. Continue checking the bridge to make sure it doesn't lean or bend.
Although if the soundpost does collapse when the strings are being changed, then that is often an indication that the soundpost has shrunk slightly over time and needs replacing. That's a job for the skilled repairer.
Trevor
thank you all very much. I shall try your technique , Will,there seems to be a great deal more to playing a stringed instrument , than just learning tunes.
Spot on, Will! Why do you always get there first with the correct reply? You spyin' on me or something? Or are you waiting at your PC, eyed fixed on screen, fingers hovering over the keyboard, waiting on a fiddle question?
Lol, today I was just procrastinating, heavy-duty yard work waiting. And gummidge's question struck a nerve cuz I know what it feels like to wonder how to do something (like changing strings or rosining a bow) that everyone else seems to take for granted.
Know nothing about fiddle strings but was in a session last night where the fiddle players string broke (never saw that happening before) and he was at least an hour and a half in the toilet trying to change it and had to give up, so its obviously not an easy thing to do!
One important little tip: always carry a small pair of tweezers in your fiddle-case. They are absolutely invaluable for getting the end of the A-string (especially) into and through that almost inaccessible hole in the A-peg in that almost inaccessible back end of the peg box. I shouldn't be the slightest bit surprised if the fiddle player in Molly's story had the A-string break and (s)he had great difficulty in persuading the end of replacement in and through the hole in the peg without the help of tweezers.
BTW, it's often the A-string that takes the brunt of breakages - it's a relatively thin string under high tension, and usually gets the most use. If the E is a wound E, that may be an occasional casualty, but a solid E, correctly set up, should last for ages. The D and G are unlikely to break, again if set up properly, but eventually the winding can wear and mysterious buzzes and rattles start to manifest; also, the tone will lose its initial brightness long before that happens.
How frequently should one replace strings? An open-ended question, but if one is doing several hours playing a week then I suggest a change every 6 months is indicated for at least the 3 lower strings.
Good bowing and fingering technique will extend string life. Short l-h finger nails are a very good place to start. It's almost never necessary to dig into the strings with the bow - it's much more a feel of drawing the tone out of the strings. If you hold the bow too far away from the frog you'll be needing more pressure to get the same volume because you won't have enough length of bow to get the necessary speed over the strings which is the prime source of tonal volume. I've seen a fiddle player, otherwise a fine musician and approaching a virtuoso standard of technique, who persists in holding the bow at damn near the balance point. Not surprisingly, the pressure now to be applied to the bow wrecks hairs at the rate of about 3 per tune!
Instrument set-up is likewise important: the closer the strings are to the finger board the less strain on them. Make sure the grooves in the nut and bridge are smooth and lubricated with soft pencil lead so that the strings don't stick. And clean surplus rosin off the strings after playing - a build-up of rosin will tend to deaden the tone, if nothing else.
It's actually a good thing if your sound post collapses. It means you need a new one. If you didn't know that, you'd be in trouble. A too short sound post can cause the top of the fiddle to become misformed or cracked. Keeping the same bridge position is really not that hard actually, I've taken all 4 strings off before and my bridge is in exactly the same place. Just take your time, and measure the sounding length if your strings (nut to bridge) or the afterlength (bridge to fret on the tailpiece. also note the position of the bridge relative to the f-hole notches fore-and aft and on the sides. Older fiddles also will usually have wear points on the varnish that match the position of the bridge feet. Another point is not to overtighten your strings when changing them, this can be pretty easy to do and can result in broken strings. They take a little time to settle in. I usually tune them to a bit below pitch, let them sit for a little bit, then they usually tune up easier. if you use steel strings this is especially relavent due to the higher tension.
A little while ago I took the bridge off both my fiddles and worked on the top of each bridge with the intention of bringing the strings closer to the fingerboard. The soundposts remained in place and it was easy to tell from the varnish marks exactly where the feet of the bridge were located. If you're not sure you can make a couple of tiny marks with a pencil before you take the bridge off.
If you ever have to remove the bridge be aware that the fiddle will take a few days or a week or so to settle down after yo've replaced the bridge.
Another tip: if you've taken the bridge off and you pick the fiddle up with your fingers on either side of its waist (the narrow part), whatever you do, always hold it lightly. If you grip it too tightly you can distort the belly sufficiently to cause the sound post to fall over. I understand this squeezing action is used by luthiers when fitting a soundpost.
Trevor
The bridge should be between the two grooves on the f-holes and should also be leaning back slightly because as you bring tuning to concert pitch the bridge will be pulled forward and further with further adjustments. then one day you'll be adjusting and the bridge will snap as it is pulled forward!
Using the F-hole grooves is not fully sound. Best to use the original bridge placement. Placement is relative to soundpost placement and sounding length. Some fiddles actually may have slightly different placement of the f-hole notches, that may bear no relation to other things. The bridge will be right in that area though, so it is a good starting point. Also, If your bridge is properly fit, with the feet in full contact with the top. It's pretty easy to keep the bridge from going over as you tune. Leaning it back, off of its feet can actually increase the risk of screwing up placement, or worse, your varnish.
I thought that soundposts were always kept in place by the tension of the strings? Otherwise how the hell do you take it off and put it back on again, even if you have one of those special tool thingys?
It's not a good thing if your soundpost collapses and you need your fiddle to perform or have fun at a session ;)
Nope, it's fitted to the fiddle's inner dimensions. It can be removed by sliding the bottom end with a soundpost adjuster. If it were the case that string tension held it in place. You'd have to have your soundpost reset everytime you had a new bridge fitted or you fingerboard dressed. The main reason it's fitted the way it is though is to keep the top supported structurally and acoustically. As I said before, if your soundpost collapses, it means you need a new one
Okay, that makes sense about how to fit soundposts, but going back to the original question, there is still definitely a potential risk of having the soundpost fall out when all of the strings are removed, because there is extra tension placed on the soundpost by the bridge (from the strings). So although it may mean that you need a new soundpost, it may put your fiddle out of 'action' for a few days (which may be quite hard to cope with for some people)
You're right Paul. BUT, better to find out your soundpost is too short now, rather than wait for cracks or top plate shifting to happen, which are much more expensive to repair. As long as your post is properly fitted and you handle the fiddle properly, it shouldn't collapse with the loss of tension. A maker fits the soundpost before the instrument is strung up etc., so it is already a tight fit. Newer instruments do sometimes require a new soundpost after 6 months or so as dimensions can change with the fiddle playing in and opening up, but after that it's usually stable.
changing strings
changing strings
I'd like to replace the strings on my fiddle, and feel that all need replacing. I've only ever changed one at a time.How do I go about doing this,if I take all the strings off, the bridge will move out of place.Sorry to be asking ,what I'm sure is a question with an obvious answer, but I don't know what to do.
# Posted on October 3rd 2004 by gummidge
Re: changing strings
Just change one string at a time till you've replaced all four.
IF you're going to change all four, here's the routine I usually follow.
1. Loosen all the strings, taking them down a whole step in pitch, starting with the E string, then the A string, D, and G, then dropping another whole step starting with the E again. (Otherwise, if you loosen the A and D strings, say, without loosening the E string, the E string can break under the suddenly increased tension. It's also hard on the bridge.)
2. Remove the A string. Wipe the exposed fingerboard with a soft cloth, and rub a pencil lead in the nut groove to reduce friction for the new string.
3. Put the new A string on. (Trevor's given detailed advice here before about how to wind it on the peg so it doesn't bind or tend to loosen itself.)
4. Bring the new string up to a couple of pitches below standard pitch--just enought tension to help hold the bridge in place.
5. Repeat steps 2-4 with the D string, then the G string, then the E string.
6. Check the bridge to make sure it's not leaning. The side of the bridge facing the tailpiece should be at 90 degrees to the top of the fiddle. Use your fingers to straighten it, without moving the feet of the bridge, before you bring the strings up to full tension. Also pay attention during the whole process to make sure the bridge doesn't shift from side to side (closer to one f-hole than the other).
7. Bring the strings up to pitch, refering to a reliable source. Start with the A string, then D, then G, then E. This will take a few times around as the strings relax and the fiddle adjusts to being under full tension again. Continue checking the bridge to make sure it doesn't lean or bend.
Hope this helps.
# Posted on October 3rd 2004 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: changing strings
Yep, definitely one at a time...otherwise you may have the danger of your soundpost collapsing out of place
Paul
# Posted on October 3rd 2004 by Paul Godfray
Re: changing strings
Although if the soundpost does collapse when the strings are being changed, then that is often an indication that the soundpost has shrunk slightly over time and needs replacing. That's a job for the skilled repairer.
Trevor
# Posted on October 3rd 2004 by lazyhound
Re: changing strings
thank you all very much. I shall try your technique , Will,there seems to be a great deal more to playing a stringed instrument , than just learning tunes.
# Posted on October 3rd 2004 by gummidge
Re: changing strings
Spot on, Will! Why do you always get there first with the correct reply? You spyin' on me or something? Or are you waiting at your PC, eyed fixed on screen, fingers hovering over the keyboard, waiting on a fiddle question?
Jim
# Posted on October 3rd 2004 by Worldfiddler
Re: changing strings
But, I sometimes beat him to it!
Trevor
# Posted on October 4th 2004 by lazyhound
Re: changing strings
Lol, today I was just procrastinating, heavy-duty yard work waiting. And gummidge's question struck a nerve cuz I know what it feels like to wonder how to do something (like changing strings or rosining a bow) that everyone else seems to take for granted.
# Posted on October 4th 2004 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: changing strings
Know nothing about fiddle strings but was in a session last night where the fiddle players string broke (never saw that happening before) and he was at least an hour and a half in the toilet trying to change it and had to give up, so its obviously not an easy thing to do!
# Posted on October 4th 2004 by MollyB
Re: changing strings
One important little tip: always carry a small pair of tweezers in your fiddle-case. They are absolutely invaluable for getting the end of the A-string (especially) into and through that almost inaccessible hole in the A-peg in that almost inaccessible back end of the peg box. I shouldn't be the slightest bit surprised if the fiddle player in Molly's story had the A-string break and (s)he had great difficulty in persuading the end of replacement in and through the hole in the peg without the help of tweezers.
BTW, it's often the A-string that takes the brunt of breakages - it's a relatively thin string under high tension, and usually gets the most use. If the E is a wound E, that may be an occasional casualty, but a solid E, correctly set up, should last for ages. The D and G are unlikely to break, again if set up properly, but eventually the winding can wear and mysterious buzzes and rattles start to manifest; also, the tone will lose its initial brightness long before that happens.
How frequently should one replace strings? An open-ended question, but if one is doing several hours playing a week then I suggest a change every 6 months is indicated for at least the 3 lower strings.
Good bowing and fingering technique will extend string life. Short l-h finger nails are a very good place to start. It's almost never necessary to dig into the strings with the bow - it's much more a feel of drawing the tone out of the strings. If you hold the bow too far away from the frog you'll be needing more pressure to get the same volume because you won't have enough length of bow to get the necessary speed over the strings which is the prime source of tonal volume. I've seen a fiddle player, otherwise a fine musician and approaching a virtuoso standard of technique, who persists in holding the bow at damn near the balance point. Not surprisingly, the pressure now to be applied to the bow wrecks hairs at the rate of about 3 per tune!
Instrument set-up is likewise important: the closer the strings are to the finger board the less strain on them. Make sure the grooves in the nut and bridge are smooth and lubricated with soft pencil lead so that the strings don't stick. And clean surplus rosin off the strings after playing - a build-up of rosin will tend to deaden the tone, if nothing else.
Trevor
# Posted on October 4th 2004 by lazyhound
Re: changing strings
It's actually a good thing if your sound post collapses. It means you need a new one. If you didn't know that, you'd be in trouble. A too short sound post can cause the top of the fiddle to become misformed or cracked. Keeping the same bridge position is really not that hard actually, I've taken all 4 strings off before and my bridge is in exactly the same place. Just take your time, and measure the sounding length if your strings (nut to bridge) or the afterlength (bridge to fret on the tailpiece. also note the position of the bridge relative to the f-hole notches fore-and aft and on the sides. Older fiddles also will usually have wear points on the varnish that match the position of the bridge feet. Another point is not to overtighten your strings when changing them, this can be pretty easy to do and can result in broken strings. They take a little time to settle in. I usually tune them to a bit below pitch, let them sit for a little bit, then they usually tune up easier. if you use steel strings this is especially relavent due to the higher tension.
Corin
# Posted on October 6th 2004 by meemtp
Re: changing strings
A little while ago I took the bridge off both my fiddles and worked on the top of each bridge with the intention of bringing the strings closer to the fingerboard. The soundposts remained in place and it was easy to tell from the varnish marks exactly where the feet of the bridge were located. If you're not sure you can make a couple of tiny marks with a pencil before you take the bridge off.
If you ever have to remove the bridge be aware that the fiddle will take a few days or a week or so to settle down after yo've replaced the bridge.
Another tip: if you've taken the bridge off and you pick the fiddle up with your fingers on either side of its waist (the narrow part), whatever you do, always hold it lightly. If you grip it too tightly you can distort the belly sufficiently to cause the sound post to fall over. I understand this squeezing action is used by luthiers when fitting a soundpost.
Trevor
# Posted on October 6th 2004 by lazyhound
Re: changing strings
The bridge should be between the two grooves on the f-holes and should also be leaning back slightly because as you bring tuning to concert pitch the bridge will be pulled forward and further with further adjustments. then one day you'll be adjusting and the bridge will snap as it is pulled forward!
# Posted on October 7th 2004 by M0nty10
Re: changing strings
Using the F-hole grooves is not fully sound. Best to use the original bridge placement. Placement is relative to soundpost placement and sounding length. Some fiddles actually may have slightly different placement of the f-hole notches, that may bear no relation to other things. The bridge will be right in that area though, so it is a good starting point. Also, If your bridge is properly fit, with the feet in full contact with the top. It's pretty easy to keep the bridge from going over as you tune. Leaning it back, off of its feet can actually increase the risk of screwing up placement, or worse, your varnish.
# Posted on October 7th 2004 by meemtp
Re: changing strings
I thought that soundposts were always kept in place by the tension of the strings? Otherwise how the hell do you take it off and put it back on again, even if you have one of those special tool thingys?
It's not a good thing if your soundpost collapses and you need your fiddle to perform or have fun at a session ;)
# Posted on October 7th 2004 by Paul Godfray
Re: changing strings
Nope, it's fitted to the fiddle's inner dimensions. It can be removed by sliding the bottom end with a soundpost adjuster. If it were the case that string tension held it in place. You'd have to have your soundpost reset everytime you had a new bridge fitted or you fingerboard dressed. The main reason it's fitted the way it is though is to keep the top supported structurally and acoustically. As I said before, if your soundpost collapses, it means you need a new one
# Posted on October 7th 2004 by meemtp
Re: changing strings
Paul, see the final para in my previous post - about being careful not to squeeze the fiddle when the strings aren't tensioned.
Trevor
# Posted on October 8th 2004 by lazyhound
Re: changing strings
Okay, that makes sense about how to fit soundposts, but going back to the original question, there is still definitely a potential risk of having the soundpost fall out when all of the strings are removed, because there is extra tension placed on the soundpost by the bridge (from the strings). So although it may mean that you need a new soundpost, it may put your fiddle out of 'action' for a few days (which may be quite hard to cope with for some people)
# Posted on October 18th 2004 by Paul Godfray
Re: changing strings
You're right Paul. BUT, better to find out your soundpost is too short now, rather than wait for cracks or top plate shifting to happen, which are much more expensive to repair. As long as your post is properly fitted and you handle the fiddle properly, it shouldn't collapse with the loss of tension. A maker fits the soundpost before the instrument is strung up etc., so it is already a tight fit. Newer instruments do sometimes require a new soundpost after 6 months or so as dimensions can change with the fiddle playing in and opening up, but after that it's usually stable.
# Posted on October 21st 2004 by meemtp