If not, just loosen your strings a little and slip the bridge back into place--string tension is all that holds it on.
But - you'll want to set it in the right place. Usually about 13 inches (33cm) from the nut to the bridge, measured along a taut string. And centered with the fingerboard (so the bridge isn't trying to pull the e string, say, off the fingerboard). And the face of the brdige toward the tailpiece should be at a right angle (90 degrees) to the belly of the fiddle.
The other handy thing I recently learned is that when the bridge is in the proper place, and the strings are tuned, you can pluck the strings behind the bridge and get the octave higher note for the next string up. In other words, plucking the D string behind the bridge gets you an A note one octave higher than the A string in front of bridge.
I'd just add a little to what Will has said about bridge placement. The little nicks in the f-holes on the belly are there to locate the bridge. The bridge should sit on a line joining those little nicks. When the bridge is placed correctly thus then the luthier will check that the soundpost is in its correct placement relative to the bridge. This is critical to the sound of the fiddle and the luthier will work to a millimetre or less; obviously, leave this to the luthier!
The set-up trick Will mentioned about plucking a string behind the bridge and getting a note an octave higher than the next open string up improves the resonance of the instrument. It is done by carefully adjusting the length of the tie connecting the tailpiece to the nut - best left for the luthier to set up if you don't know how to do it - not by readjusting the position of a correctly set-up bridge.
This octave set-up trick works best if you're using a tailpiece with integral micro adjusters; it's not quite so easy to set up if you're using add-on adjusters. Don't be surprised if you can't get an accurate octave E out of the part of the A string behind the bridge - this particular octave is very difficult to get. Also, I shouldn't worry if you can't get these octaves dead accurate - tone-wise it's the fine iceing on the cake.
Trevor
But be aware that those nicks on the f-holes are often out of whack, especially if in it's life the instrument's had the top taken off and re-set. I've seen f-holes off by a centimeter and a half. And sometimes they're crooked relative to where the bridge belongs. Ultimately, where the bridge goes is determined by the fiddle's string length, from the nut at the scroll end to the nut on the tailpiece (assuming the tailpiece gut is adjusted properly).
This is very useful info - can I ask a supplementary question? I'm putting some new strings on an old fiddle that I bought for no money in a junk shop a few years ago. The bridge is quite high - what sort of height would you say the strings should be at their highest point on the fingerboard? I'm sure it's within my ability to shave the bridge down a bit. Do I just echo the contour of the fingerboard and should the E string be lower in height than the G? I can then use the info in this thread to attempt to place the bridge correctly. The fiddle is quite a nice one but has a few scars and a couple of small hairline cracks - I might get these professionally repaired if I get on OK with it.
I second Jim Troy there, take in into Crehans, they're really good in there, and very friendly too. The only porblem is that the shop is a little off the beaten track, it's worth the trip though.
Plucker, if you have another bridge you like (on another fiddle, say), you can use that as a template to shape the top. Some people also just echo the cross-section curve of the fingerboard.
Bridge height is highly personal--as long as the strings aren't so low they buzz, and aren't so high that intonation audibly suffers when you press down on them. In general, a higher bridge provides more volume and sometimes more "pop" when doing cuts, rolls, etc. But can also result in a harsher tone. Too low, and your finger will start to sound mushy. Most fiddles and players seem to prefer bridges that end up between 30 and 35 mm, with 33 mm being a fairly common benchmark. Bridge height--and its affect on string height ('action') also depends on the height of the nut on the peghead end of the fingerboard. Like most things in life, nuts eventually end up on the low side, and will need to be replaced. If that's the case with this particular fiddle, it's best to do that before setting a new bridge.
Cheers Will - that's exactly what I wanted to know - the tone is a bit harsh and that could be the high bridge. Also the strings are old - I've got a new set of Dominants to put on it. Hope this info was useful to Ronan too.
Once you get the bridge set up just how you want it, it's often worth tweaking the sound post, too. Moving it half a mm here or there has a major affect on tone and volume and balance between bass and treble ends. Also, if the sound post is too snug, the fiddle won't resonate fully. It's not too hard to learn to do on your own, if you can get your hands on a sound post setting tool. Or well worth paying an experienced luthier to tinker with. Getting the sound post just right can reveal a "mediocre" fiddle's true potential to be a fine-sounding instrument. (Although there are many fiddles that won't sound great, no matter how well set up.)
The Dominants should help mellow the tone, but you might also try Thomastik Infeld Reds for a nice warm sound (except the Red e strings seem to have more 'edge' than necessary), or my favorites--Pirastro Evah Pirazzi strings.
Checking the string note behind the bridge was a great tip. The fiddle I have is quite a large one (no, it's not a viola!) I found the Dominant G string to be a little bit short (why is it so much shorter than the other strings?)- the purple winding came a few mm over the nut. So I took off the tailpiece and found the tie was easily adjustable because it was threaded with turnable end-stops. I lengthened it a few mm, positioned the bridge at the nicks in the f-holes, and I find that the octave trick described by Will and Trevor is pretty much spot on. The shaved-down bridge is now about 33mm - the strings were way too high before. The fiddle is much more resonant now. It's been well travelled and bashed about in it's lifetime, but I think it's a pretty good one. Curiously at some time in it's life it had a small hole drilled through it in front of the bridge and through the back, which looks like it was filled years ago. Perhaps this was for a small mike - maybe it was played in a dance orchestra or something. It came with a good bow. I'm not going to risk messing with the soundpost!
I bought a Scott Cao student violin in May, because all the classical people said they were of exceptional quality and so forth, and I didn't want to monkey about with setup - and indeed most of the setup seems to be happening, good pegs and very comfortable to play, except that it was "set up for tone" - with the strings quite high, my fingers'd be a bit numb after a while from just pushing down the strings. Dominants. I bought some low tension Helicores thinking that would help. Not really. Finally I gave up and took the Bausch bridge off my junker fiddle and put it on the Cao - right between the F-Hole nicks. The Bausch is way too thick and I shaved it a titch too flat, thus the tone is now in the toilet - but I might as well havn't bothered practicing all this time, it's so much easier to play now.
Cranitch just says to get a good fiddle. Seems like most advice is along those lines - without the strings set up easy you're not going to get far, don't you think? The tone can wait for later. Seems like this should be emphasized a bit more strongly.
I've bought a couple bridge blanks and am going to set them up just to my liking.
I should've known, too - you'll die of oxygen deprevation before learning anything on a flute with leaky keys and corks. Or dislocate your shoulder (and blow your eardrums out) trying to play a chanter with a cracked/hard/leaky/overscraped reed.
Pre-setup fiddles, usually for students, almost invariably have the bridge set too high (WHY?) - and as you've found out, Kevin, a big tone is no use if the strings are hard to press down.
Most of the best players (whether trad, folk, jazz, classical, or whatever) tend to have the strings as low as possible to the fingerboard, as long as they don't actually buzz or rattle. It makes playing that much easier, and you can learn to develop tone without having a bridge that's too high.
Ideally, the fingerboard should be raised to come up to the strings, and you'll see this sometimes has been done on a very old fiddle, but this is an expensive, skilled procedure, and just bringing the bridge down a little instead is generally quite satisfactory. The trick is to bring the top of the bridge down just a little at a time (1mm), using the finest grade sandpaper you can lay your hands on, until it meets your requirements. Don't forget to make pencil marks on the bridge so that you'll know where the string grooves go afterwards!
Even with new instruments the between the f-hole notches placement isn't necessarily accurate. Bridge position is relative to sounding length. Not all fiddles have the same sounding length. It can be anywhere from 327 to 330 mm. There are differences between Strad, Del Gesu and other types of designs. Best is to let a luthier find the sweet spots for both the soundpost and bridge. As far as repositioning the bridge alone, best is to do what another poster mentioned and use scale length along with position relative to the soundpost. Also if you measure the afterlength of your strings (bridge to fret of the tailpiece) that should be 1/6 of the length from nut to bridge. Gives you a good idea of where to start.
repairs to fiddle
repairs to fiddle
The lid closed on my fiddle and now the bridge has come off... where can I get it fixed? Dublin area? Thanks!
# Posted on September 15th 2004 by RonanOD
Re: repairs to fiddle
Did the bridge break?
If not, just loosen your strings a little and slip the bridge back into place--string tension is all that holds it on.
But - you'll want to set it in the right place. Usually about 13 inches (33cm) from the nut to the bridge, measured along a taut string. And centered with the fingerboard (so the bridge isn't trying to pull the e string, say, off the fingerboard). And the face of the brdige toward the tailpiece should be at a right angle (90 degrees) to the belly of the fiddle.
The other handy thing I recently learned is that when the bridge is in the proper place, and the strings are tuned, you can pluck the strings behind the bridge and get the octave higher note for the next string up. In other words, plucking the D string behind the bridge gets you an A note one octave higher than the A string in front of bridge.
# Posted on September 15th 2004 by Will Harmon
Re: repairs to fiddle
I'd just add a little to what Will has said about bridge placement. The little nicks in the f-holes on the belly are there to locate the bridge. The bridge should sit on a line joining those little nicks. When the bridge is placed correctly thus then the luthier will check that the soundpost is in its correct placement relative to the bridge. This is critical to the sound of the fiddle and the luthier will work to a millimetre or less; obviously, leave this to the luthier!
The set-up trick Will mentioned about plucking a string behind the bridge and getting a note an octave higher than the next open string up improves the resonance of the instrument. It is done by carefully adjusting the length of the tie connecting the tailpiece to the nut - best left for the luthier to set up if you don't know how to do it - not by readjusting the position of a correctly set-up bridge.
This octave set-up trick works best if you're using a tailpiece with integral micro adjusters; it's not quite so easy to set up if you're using add-on adjusters. Don't be surprised if you can't get an accurate octave E out of the part of the A string behind the bridge - this particular octave is very difficult to get. Also, I shouldn't worry if you can't get these octaves dead accurate - tone-wise it's the fine iceing on the cake.
Trevor
# Posted on September 16th 2004 by Trevor Jennings
Re: repairs to fiddle
But be aware that those nicks on the f-holes are often out of whack, especially if in it's life the instrument's had the top taken off and re-set. I've seen f-holes off by a centimeter and a half. And sometimes they're crooked relative to where the bridge belongs. Ultimately, where the bridge goes is determined by the fiddle's string length, from the nut at the scroll end to the nut on the tailpiece (assuming the tailpiece gut is adjusted properly).
# Posted on September 16th 2004 by Will Harmon
Re: repairs to fiddle
You're right, Will, of course. I was thinking of new instruments where the luthier sets things up properly in the first instance.
Trevor
# Posted on September 16th 2004 by Trevor Jennings
Re: repairs to fiddle
This is very useful info - can I ask a supplementary question? I'm putting some new strings on an old fiddle that I bought for no money in a junk shop a few years ago. The bridge is quite high - what sort of height would you say the strings should be at their highest point on the fingerboard? I'm sure it's within my ability to shave the bridge down a bit. Do I just echo the contour of the fingerboard and should the E string be lower in height than the G? I can then use the info in this thread to attempt to place the bridge correctly. The fiddle is quite a nice one but has a few scars and a couple of small hairline cracks - I might get these professionally repaired if I get on OK with it.
# Posted on September 16th 2004 by RichardB
Re: repairs to fiddle
I second Jim Troy there, take in into Crehans, they're really good in there, and very friendly too. The only porblem is that the shop is a little off the beaten track, it's worth the trip though.
Their website is www.crehans.ie
# Posted on September 16th 2004 by oraghalm
Re: repairs to fiddle
Plucker, if you have another bridge you like (on another fiddle, say), you can use that as a template to shape the top. Some people also just echo the cross-section curve of the fingerboard.
Bridge height is highly personal--as long as the strings aren't so low they buzz, and aren't so high that intonation audibly suffers when you press down on them. In general, a higher bridge provides more volume and sometimes more "pop" when doing cuts, rolls, etc. But can also result in a harsher tone. Too low, and your finger will start to sound mushy. Most fiddles and players seem to prefer bridges that end up between 30 and 35 mm, with 33 mm being a fairly common benchmark. Bridge height--and its affect on string height ('action') also depends on the height of the nut on the peghead end of the fingerboard. Like most things in life, nuts eventually end up on the low side, and will need to be replaced. If that's the case with this particular fiddle, it's best to do that before setting a new bridge.
# Posted on September 16th 2004 by Will Harmon
Re: repairs to fiddle
Cheers Will - that's exactly what I wanted to know - the tone is a bit harsh and that could be the high bridge. Also the strings are old - I've got a new set of Dominants to put on it. Hope this info was useful to Ronan too.
# Posted on September 16th 2004 by RichardB
Re: repairs to fiddle
Once you get the bridge set up just how you want it, it's often worth tweaking the sound post, too. Moving it half a mm here or there has a major affect on tone and volume and balance between bass and treble ends. Also, if the sound post is too snug, the fiddle won't resonate fully. It's not too hard to learn to do on your own, if you can get your hands on a sound post setting tool. Or well worth paying an experienced luthier to tinker with. Getting the sound post just right can reveal a "mediocre" fiddle's true potential to be a fine-sounding instrument. (Although there are many fiddles that won't sound great, no matter how well set up.)
The Dominants should help mellow the tone, but you might also try Thomastik Infeld Reds for a nice warm sound (except the Red e strings seem to have more 'edge' than necessary), or my favorites--Pirastro Evah Pirazzi strings.
# Posted on September 16th 2004 by Will Harmon
Re: repairs to fiddle
Checking the string note behind the bridge was a great tip. The fiddle I have is quite a large one (no, it's not a viola!) I found the Dominant G string to be a little bit short (why is it so much shorter than the other strings?)- the purple winding came a few mm over the nut. So I took off the tailpiece and found the tie was easily adjustable because it was threaded with turnable end-stops. I lengthened it a few mm, positioned the bridge at the nicks in the f-holes, and I find that the octave trick described by Will and Trevor is pretty much spot on. The shaved-down bridge is now about 33mm - the strings were way too high before. The fiddle is much more resonant now. It's been well travelled and bashed about in it's lifetime, but I think it's a pretty good one. Curiously at some time in it's life it had a small hole drilled through it in front of the bridge and through the back, which looks like it was filled years ago. Perhaps this was for a small mike - maybe it was played in a dance orchestra or something. It came with a good bow. I'm not going to risk messing with the soundpost!
# Posted on September 17th 2004 by RichardB
Re: repairs to fiddle
I bought a Scott Cao student violin in May, because all the classical people said they were of exceptional quality and so forth, and I didn't want to monkey about with setup - and indeed most of the setup seems to be happening, good pegs and very comfortable to play, except that it was "set up for tone" - with the strings quite high, my fingers'd be a bit numb after a while from just pushing down the strings. Dominants. I bought some low tension Helicores thinking that would help. Not really. Finally I gave up and took the Bausch bridge off my junker fiddle and put it on the Cao - right between the F-Hole nicks. The Bausch is way too thick and I shaved it a titch too flat, thus the tone is now in the toilet - but I might as well havn't bothered practicing all this time, it's so much easier to play now.
Cranitch just says to get a good fiddle. Seems like most advice is along those lines - without the strings set up easy you're not going to get far, don't you think? The tone can wait for later. Seems like this should be emphasized a bit more strongly.
I've bought a couple bridge blanks and am going to set them up just to my liking.
I should've known, too - you'll die of oxygen deprevation before learning anything on a flute with leaky keys and corks. Or dislocate your shoulder (and blow your eardrums out) trying to play a chanter with a cracked/hard/leaky/overscraped reed.
# Posted on September 23rd 2004 by KLR
Re: repairs to fiddle
Pre-setup fiddles, usually for students, almost invariably have the bridge set too high (WHY?) - and as you've found out, Kevin, a big tone is no use if the strings are hard to press down.
Most of the best players (whether trad, folk, jazz, classical, or whatever) tend to have the strings as low as possible to the fingerboard, as long as they don't actually buzz or rattle. It makes playing that much easier, and you can learn to develop tone without having a bridge that's too high.
Ideally, the fingerboard should be raised to come up to the strings, and you'll see this sometimes has been done on a very old fiddle, but this is an expensive, skilled procedure, and just bringing the bridge down a little instead is generally quite satisfactory. The trick is to bring the top of the bridge down just a little at a time (1mm), using the finest grade sandpaper you can lay your hands on, until it meets your requirements. Don't forget to make pencil marks on the bridge so that you'll know where the string grooves go afterwards!
Trevor
# Posted on September 23rd 2004 by Trevor Jennings
Re: repairs to fiddle
Even with new instruments the between the f-hole notches placement isn't necessarily accurate. Bridge position is relative to sounding length. Not all fiddles have the same sounding length. It can be anywhere from 327 to 330 mm. There are differences between Strad, Del Gesu and other types of designs. Best is to let a luthier find the sweet spots for both the soundpost and bridge. As far as repositioning the bridge alone, best is to do what another poster mentioned and use scale length along with position relative to the soundpost. Also if you measure the afterlength of your strings (bridge to fret of the tailpiece) that should be 1/6 of the length from nut to bridge. Gives you a good idea of where to start.
# Posted on October 6th 2004 by meemtp