I have played the fiddle for many years, but I have a persistent problem with my bowing wrist. I feel it's lacking in flexibility and strength and it sometimes seems to seize up, especially if I become nervous when playing solo.
Recently when this happened I instinctively picked up the bodhran of a fellow musician who was taking a break from the session (This is probably in breach of strict session etiquette and I had never done this before). I quietly accompanied the other musicians for a set using my hand rather than the cipin. I found that it loosened up my wrist and relaxed me generally after having made a pig's ear (so it seemed) of the tune I had attempted.
Two questions:
(a) Has any other fiddler found playing the bodhran similarly beneficial?
(b) On the basis of the experience above described, I would like to buy a bodhran to practise on. However, as I'm vegan I don't want to be responsible for the sacrifice of a goat to this end. Does anybody have advice on the availability of bodhrans with non-animal hide skins, their quality etc?
I'm not sure there's really such a thing as a vegan fiddle - what with cat-gut, horse hair and hide glue. Perhaps you can get a bodhran where the animal is certified as having died of natural causes.
I have a Remo bodhran with a synthetic head and though it's relatively indestructable, impervious to moisture and temperature related problems, it sounds kinda synthetic. Not bad for loud roudy sessions, but weak for anything like tasteful playing. Not tunable either. I didn't buy it because of any vegan concerns, it was cheap.
Would it be OK if the goat died of natural causes? That way it wouldn't technically be "sacrificed".
Technically, here's the definition of sacrifice.
sac·ri·fice
n.
1.
1. The act of offering something to a deity in propitiation or homage, especially the ritual slaughter of an animal or a person.
2. A victim offered in this way.
2.
1. Forfeiture of something highly valued for the sake of one considered to have a greater value or claim.
2. Something so forfeited.
3.
1. Relinquishment of something at less than its presumed value.
2. Something so relinquished.
3. A loss so sustained.
4. Baseball. A sacrifice hit or sacrifice fly.
I don't know if there's a bodhran god out there that the goat is being sacrificed to...
Oh, I don't know, John. God has always encouraged recycling. She doesn't like waste. What else do you do with all of those spare goatskins cluttering up the yard?
I read somewhere that BMW now offers a vegan-friendly car with no leather seats. Special order.
Batlady,
You might appreciate this song-particularly the verse about God Almighty.
THEY SENT A WUMMAN
(Nancy Nicolson)
Ah sent for the doctor, Ah telephoned the day
The doctor was an awfa time a-comin'
Ah sent for the doctor but sorry for tae say
A doctor never came - they sent a wumman
But ah let her make me better
Then Ah asked her could she no get intae nursin
Ah sent for the doctor but when she went away
Ah couldnae understand why she was cursin
Ah sent for the pilot, Ah telephoned the day
The pilot was an awfa time a-comin'
Ah sent for the pilot but sorry for tae say
A pilot never came - they sent a wumman
But she roared off and she soared off
Then in she came and made a perfect landing
But why she simply wouldnae just hae been an air hostess
Ah've got to say is past my understanding
Ah sent for the polis, Ah telephoned the day
The polis was an awfa time a-comin'
Ah sent for the polis but sorry for tae say
A polis never came - they sent a wumman
But she nabbed the boy that grabbed the
Payroll fae the office in the High Street
But still Ah felt she should be telt it's no a lassie's job
Ah wouldnae want her on the beat in my street
Ah sent for the fairmer, Ah telephoned the day
The fairmer was an awfa time a-comin'
Ah sent for the fairmer but sorry for tae say
A fairmer never came - they sent a wumman
But her coos were and her soos were
The very best, the top o' a ' the biddin
And all I did was ask her had her father stayed at hame
The next Ah kent that Ah was in the midden
So Ah prayed tae God Almichty, Ah prayed tae him the day
The Guid Lord was an awfa time a-comin
Ah prayed tae God Almichty, and glory glori-a
The Great Almichty came - she was a wumman
And She viewed me, She how d' ye do-ed me
Said, Ma lad ye willnae listen, ye're no learnin
So here's a little lesson boy - ye're comin back again
An this time as a woman ye're returnin
Ah sent for the doctor, Ah telephoned the day
The doctor was an awfa time a-comin'
Ah sent for the doctor and I'm very pleased tae say
That when the doctor came she was a wumman
Sadly, in the annals of extinction, like a certain species of pernambuco for bows, cats long enough for strings have become extinct. They weren't able to cross busy roads quick enough...
The Remo heads tend to be a bit tight, bright, high and what seems a bit tinny to me, but they have been working on emulating the sound of skins, not just for the bodhran market, and there have been some new synthetics.
"CATGUT, the name applied to cord of great toughness and tenacity prepared from the intestines of sheep, or occasionally from those of the horse, mule and ass. Those of the cat are not employed, and therefore it is supposed that the word is properly kit gut , kit meaning fiddle, and that the present form has arisen through confusion with kit cat."
Folderol and darldeidi. Enough of the feck-arsing. Is there anyone out there with more information apropos of the questions I asked (Notwithstanding gratitude owing to the small minority, including Crocker and Ceolachan, for their helpful contributions)?
I have seen home made bodhrans produced from a cut down kit drum shell, tunable synthetic head, and standard kit drum tuning hardware. If you know a drummer with lots of old gear about, you might just be able to have one fashioned for you. I suspect the shell might require reinforcement, like a crossbar or braces, but it's quite do-able. One such bodhran had a very deep shell and sounded like cannon fire when hit hard.
Bren, the trick is to pull the horse's hair without getting killed yourself.
Strikes me that some fiddlers do all right with a fairly stiff wrist. And if you want a looser one yourself, for fiddling, work at it with your bow and fiddle. I'm having a hard time picturing a wrist on the bodhran (with or without a tipper) moving anything like what it needs to for bowing. If you want to learn how to swim, don't climb on a bicycle.....
If you can find a Lambeg drum maker, ask him if he can sell you an old skin off a used/broken drum, then bring it to a bodhrán maker. There's a fella on Sandy Row in Belfast who sells some of his second-hand direct to bodhrán makers. Best of both worlds - good goatskin without wasting an extra goat.
I can't remember where the site was, but I came across someone describing how they wanted to make a possum skin banjo, but didn't want to kill a possum. So they spent days scouring the local highways for roadkill that was definitely dead, but sufficiently whole for the purpose.
Bren talks of getting the horse hair without killing the horse - yes, but don't vegans refuse to use any animal products at all, however obtained. (What do they use as fertiliser on their gardens?)
Don't get me started on the whole veggy thing, or I'll tell you how we get milk, and that'll really put you off.
What is all this Sacrifice? Why not use a goat that has already died.
Do all bodhran makers creep about at full-moon, ready to slit a goats throat and drink its blood?
At the risk of being castigated, whoops, I made my own bodhran from an old bass drum skin. I don't know what it's made of, but it's not animal or human.
As I took up the fiddle later on in life I don't know about the wrist flexibility thing with the bowing, but I do triplets and stuff okay. I also use the back of the hand for some rythms, so perhaps the bodhran does have a use.
I suppose one alternative would be to culture some of your own squamous epithelium skin cells. And where would acquire them from? Well, to be trully in the spirit of alternative medecine might I suggest the following?
I suppose it’s time for me to again put a spake in, if only to acknowledge the sheer volume of contributions to the discussion. Corcra, nice to hear from you (the question of the leine hanging free or tucked in should perhaps be left to minor ITM theologians – or deferred to our next symposium in Galway at an appropriately advanced stage in the proceedings). As for those of you who scoff at my concern for our caprine fellow creatures, may the almighty goat-god Pan have mercy on your souls when you attempt to gain entry to the great Puck Fair in the sky. I’ll say no more on that. Regarding the book under the arm procedure, Jim, apart from the thickness of the tome concerned, does its content matter. Would, for example, my hardback copy of 1001 Gems, The Dance Music of Ireland, by O’Neill impart a more authentic feel to the sound produced than, say, A Streetcar Named Desire, which might give it a certain New Orleans vibe? Seriously, I’ve tried that, but found that it not only impaired my arm movement but my breathing and thus proved somewhat unproductive. Slan go foill.
Additional incentive to find a goat-free bodhran skin: (from the Irish Independent, March 2004)
RURAL Ireland has been hit by an outbreak of goat rustling as animals are picked up by stealth for the lucrative black market in skins to make bodhran hand drums for traditional music groups. One goat rearing group has asked Agriculture Minister, Joe Walsh, to begin an investigation.
Thefts of goats - many family pets as well as farm animals - have occurred in Cork, Clare, Kerry and Limerick.
The Irish Goat Producers Association (IGPA) want tough action by the gardai and the Department of Agriculture to trace those responsible.
Director Josephine Monks said goat owners suspect the animals are disappearing because of the value of their hides.
"There is definitely something very sinister going on. It's mostly mature goats that have disappeared, many of them family pets," she said.
"There is a huge demand for hides for making bodhrans," she said.
However, both gardai and goat-owners acknowledge the disappearences have nothing to do with the reputable bodhran trade but both are suspicious of black-market manufacturers who aren't concerned with traditional methods.
Gardai said 15 goats were recently stolen in West Cork. They suspect some were shot.
I stand corrected on that, Jim – I confused your advice with similar advice from somebody else which did feature holding a book under the arm. Thanks anyway for that and your other advice. Since you raise your meat eating habit, well here goes: I put it to you whether eating habits should take account of ethics as well as etiquette (there is a fundamental difference, and it is often the case, it seems to me, that those who make the greatest show of etiquette are the least ethical). And on that serious note, the question also arises why the concept of a vegan bodhran should necessarily elicit derision, as one or more interlocutors have suggested. Maybe they should: (a) visit an abattoir sometime, so that they can find out at first hand that how their meat is produced is no joke; and (b) do some basic research into nutrition, so that they might find out how unnecessary all that cruelty and death is. Anyway, Grego, thanks for that brilliant and supportive piece of Googling (presumably that’s how you found that gem). It just goes to show that there are usually ecological implications to musical as well as dietary proclivities. Leave the kid on the mountain I say.
I think that an artificial Bodhran skin would probably be made of a synthetic material derived from oil. I have no firm proof of this, but I strongly suspect that the oil industry damages to animals than goat abattoirs, freelance or otherwise.
Though maybe I'm wrong.
Point to phonsie. And didn't Mr. Thoreau, sulking beside his stagnant pond, mutter something along the lines of 'the unexamined life is not worth living'?
Another goat-related scene: Last few years, it is not uncommon to see large truckloads of goats traveling through town on their way to weed-control gigs on the National Forest. Some enterprising souls rounded up surplus goats, invested in some kind of portable fencing, and hire out the goats to do what they do best-eat stuff. Much nicer than all the mechanical and chemical alternatives. And they look so cute out there, frolicking in the bosky dells.
Concerning your quote, "The unexamined life...", Batlady, you're over two millenia out in your attribution. It was Socrates who said that. And if you're associating me with Socrates, that's fine and dandy with me, because Socrates is one of the greats in my book (up there with Kevin Burke even). I mean if he was good enough to be Plato's mentor... Actually Socrates isn't entirely irrelevant to this discussion (is there anything irrelevant at this stage) because he is one of the two greatest scapegoats in history (I would recommend that you read Plato's "Allegory of the Cave" in this respect).
Please forgive another serious reply. Some Remo hand drums come with a synthetic head called FiberSkyn. I like it a bit better than most fake skins and it seems to resemble a banjo head of the same make. I'd research whether such a product is available in a piece large enough for your requirements. Good luck!
Sorry about this, Jim, but the "punchline" to this family-friendly joke of sorts isn't going to work in this context, but here goes: His mother was a goat. I know, I know, but I just thought I'd throw it in to swing myslelf out of what was becoming something like that final cascando (to borrow a term from Beckett) in the "Cliffs of Moher". Thanks for the lifeline anyway. (The literary reference perhaps prompted by the nod towards John B Keane's novels "Durango" and "The Bodhran Makers", neither of which I've read yet, though Corcra has.)
PS I tried the thumb under the frog method and it does seem to be very effective. However, I'd be afraid of persisting with it, as I I've probably got enough heresies to be going on with already.
Jim, I read about the thumb under the frog bowing style, as used in 18c France, a few years ago in a library book about the history of the violin. Can't remember the name of the book now, but I'll try to track it down next time I'm at the library.
I occasionally use the technique; it's refreshening and surprisingly comfortable - the hand is in a slightly more open and less tight configuration. One advantage, especially with a newly haired bow, is that it keeps the fingers and thumb well away from the hair - no holding the bow half-way up the stick - so there is much less build-up of black gunge on the hair near the frog.
Trevor
By the way, don't forget Billy the Kid and The Sodi Pop kid. Has anyone come up with a credible explanation for that strange wild west phonomenon whereby so many kids became gun totin' desperados on the outlaw trail? Well I believe I've come up with a cogent hypothesis: When your mother's been poleaxed to make a bodhran, revenge knows no bounds.
Time out there because of work... Down in the wilds of Tipperary way back when, and the only injun good bad or indifferent was in the imagination for want of fellow actors to play the parts, as the only kids were the four legged ones ...
PS Thanks, Crocker, if you're still there, for the serious reply, notwithstanding the wacky raimeas that seems to inevitably result from cyberspace interaction. Without wishing to instigate further rounds of sapient dialectics, I wonder if there a protocol for bringing closure to a thread, and what happens to the thread eventually?
Phonsie, I don't think there is any such protocol. Some threads seem to die naturally (e.g. if they're giving information about a forthcoming event) and there is nothing more to be said, or may drag on (like the elephant one #4525 - although that one looks like it's coming to an end).
However, no thread really "dies" or closes, however old it is, because people come across them in searches and may have new comments to post on the subject - I've done it myself once or twice. (BTW, you can always mention your appreciation of this site to Jeremy by posting a suitable comment in thread #1!).
Sometimes, a thread may apparently disappear, or be edited, if Jeremy thinks the subject matter is better off in another thread or perhaps in the Tunes or Sessions sections (probably the most common reason); rarely, a thread may be deleted if the subject matter or the way in which it is discussed is deemed inappropriate to the site.
vegan bodhran
vegan bodhran
I have played the fiddle for many years, but I have a persistent problem with my bowing wrist. I feel it's lacking in flexibility and strength and it sometimes seems to seize up, especially if I become nervous when playing solo.
Recently when this happened I instinctively picked up the bodhran of a fellow musician who was taking a break from the session (This is probably in breach of strict session etiquette and I had never done this before). I quietly accompanied the other musicians for a set using my hand rather than the cipin. I found that it loosened up my wrist and relaxed me generally after having made a pig's ear (so it seemed) of the tune I had attempted.
Two questions:
(a) Has any other fiddler found playing the bodhran similarly beneficial?
(b) On the basis of the experience above described, I would like to buy a bodhran to practise on. However, as I'm vegan I don't want to be responsible for the sacrifice of a goat to this end. Does anybody have advice on the availability of bodhrans with non-animal hide skins, their quality etc?
# Posted on September 15th 2004 by An Goban Saor
Re: vegan bodhran
Don't worry about picking up the bodhran. Session Etiquette only applies to the borrowing of "musical instruments".
# Posted on September 15th 2004 by Johnny Jay
Re: vegan bodhran
And do you have "vegan hair" on your fiddle bow instead of the horse variety? And what about the "glue" that holds your fiddle together?
# Posted on September 15th 2004 by Johnny Jay
Re: vegan bodhran
I'm not sure there's really such a thing as a vegan fiddle - what with cat-gut, horse hair and hide glue. Perhaps you can get a bodhran where the animal is certified as having died of natural causes.
# Posted on September 15th 2004 by RichardB
Re: vegan bodhran
...John J posted his last comment a split second before me!
# Posted on September 15th 2004 by RichardB
Re: vegan bodhran
I use steel strings. That's why I didn't think about everything you did, plucker.
# Posted on September 15th 2004 by Johnny Jay
Re: vegan bodhran
That's a good idea! make bodhrand out of vegans' skins.
# Posted on September 15th 2004 by Rudall the time
Re: vegan bodhran
I have a Remo bodhran with a synthetic head and though it's relatively indestructable, impervious to moisture and temperature related problems, it sounds kinda synthetic. Not bad for loud roudy sessions, but weak for anything like tasteful playing. Not tunable either. I didn't buy it because of any vegan concerns, it was cheap.
Crocker
# Posted on September 15th 2004 by Mooh
Re: vegan bodhran
Would it be OK if the goat died of natural causes? That way it wouldn't technically be "sacrificed".
Technically, here's the definition of sacrifice.
sac·ri·fice
n.
1.
1. The act of offering something to a deity in propitiation or homage, especially the ritual slaughter of an animal or a person.
2. A victim offered in this way.
2.
1. Forfeiture of something highly valued for the sake of one considered to have a greater value or claim.
2. Something so forfeited.
3.
1. Relinquishment of something at less than its presumed value.
2. Something so relinquished.
3. A loss so sustained.
4. Baseball. A sacrifice hit or sacrifice fly.
I don't know if there's a bodhran god out there that the goat is being sacrificed to...
# Posted on September 15th 2004 by mconners
Cat gut
Someone told me it's not really made from cat's guts. The "cat" refers to something not from the animal kingdom. Is this right?
# Posted on September 15th 2004 by grego
Re: vegan bodhran
Right, grego. No cats were harvested to make fiddle strings. I think catgut is actually sheep intestines. My cats will be glad to hear this.
# Posted on September 15th 2004 by Michele Sims
Re: vegan bodhran
If God didn't want us to eat animals, why did He make them out of meat?
# Posted on September 15th 2004 by showaddydadito
Re: vegan bodhran
God said we could eat animals but he didn't give us permission skin their a-ses and make bodhrans or banjos.
# Posted on September 15th 2004 by Johnny Jay
Re: vegan bodhran
Oh, I don't know, John. God has always encouraged recycling. She doesn't like waste. What else do you do with all of those spare goatskins cluttering up the yard?
I read somewhere that BMW now offers a vegan-friendly car with no leather seats. Special order.
# Posted on September 15th 2004 by Michele Sims
Re: vegan bodhran
Batlady,
You might appreciate this song-particularly the verse about God Almighty.
THEY SENT A WUMMAN
(Nancy Nicolson)
Ah sent for the doctor, Ah telephoned the day
The doctor was an awfa time a-comin'
Ah sent for the doctor but sorry for tae say
A doctor never came - they sent a wumman
But ah let her make me better
Then Ah asked her could she no get intae nursin
Ah sent for the doctor but when she went away
Ah couldnae understand why she was cursin
Ah sent for the pilot, Ah telephoned the day
The pilot was an awfa time a-comin'
Ah sent for the pilot but sorry for tae say
A pilot never came - they sent a wumman
But she roared off and she soared off
Then in she came and made a perfect landing
But why she simply wouldnae just hae been an air hostess
Ah've got to say is past my understanding
Ah sent for the polis, Ah telephoned the day
The polis was an awfa time a-comin'
Ah sent for the polis but sorry for tae say
A polis never came - they sent a wumman
But she nabbed the boy that grabbed the
Payroll fae the office in the High Street
But still Ah felt she should be telt it's no a lassie's job
Ah wouldnae want her on the beat in my street
Ah sent for the fairmer, Ah telephoned the day
The fairmer was an awfa time a-comin'
Ah sent for the fairmer but sorry for tae say
A fairmer never came - they sent a wumman
But her coos were and her soos were
The very best, the top o' a ' the biddin
And all I did was ask her had her father stayed at hame
The next Ah kent that Ah was in the midden
So Ah prayed tae God Almichty, Ah prayed tae him the day
The Guid Lord was an awfa time a-comin
Ah prayed tae God Almichty, and glory glori-a
The Great Almichty came - she was a wumman
And She viewed me, She how d' ye do-ed me
Said, Ma lad ye willnae listen, ye're no learnin
So here's a little lesson boy - ye're comin back again
An this time as a woman ye're returnin
Ah sent for the doctor, Ah telephoned the day
The doctor was an awfa time a-comin'
Ah sent for the doctor and I'm very pleased tae say
That when the doctor came she was a wumman
# Posted on September 15th 2004 by Johnny Jay
Re: vegan bodhran
Thanks, Crocker, for that one piece of substantive information elicited by my submission. More of the same would be welcome.
# Posted on September 15th 2004 by An Goban Saor
Re: vegan bodhran
Sadly, in the annals of extinction, like a certain species of pernambuco for bows, cats long enough for strings have become extinct. They weren't able to cross busy roads quick enough...
# Posted on September 15th 2004 by ceolachan
The Remo heads tend to be a bit tight, bright, high and what seems a bit tinny to me, but they have been working on emulating the sound of skins, not just for the bodhran market, and there have been some new synthetics.
# Posted on September 15th 2004 by ceolachan
Drop them a line of inquiry -
http://www.remo.com/
# Posted on September 15th 2004 by ceolachan
Re: vegan bodhran
(Snorting coffee out her nose) Yeah, John. Very nice!
Sorry, phonsie, we tend to get a bit off-topic sometimes. Undisciplined bunch of louts. Take that, ya smart alecks.
# Posted on September 15th 2004 by Michele Sims
Kit gut
Sorry, phonsie. Please bear with me a moment. I really had to research this cat gut business, and found the following at: http://20.1911encyclopedia.org/C/CA/CATGUT.htm
"CATGUT, the name applied to cord of great toughness and tenacity prepared from the intestines of sheep, or occasionally from those of the horse, mule and ass. Those of the cat are not employed, and therefore it is supposed that the word is properly kit gut , kit meaning fiddle, and that the present form has arisen through confusion with kit cat."
# Posted on September 15th 2004 by grego
Re: vegan bodhran
I heard a girlie playing with a Remo head, and using a 'soft' tipper. It sounded OK, not boomy like most of the skinned ones.
Jim
# Posted on September 15th 2004 by Worldfiddler
Re: vegan bodhran
Can't you pull horse's hairs out without killing them?
# Posted on September 15th 2004 by Bren
Yes, one of the irritating pastimes blamed on tinkers - stealing horses' tails...
# Posted on September 15th 2004 by ceolachan
Huh Grego - Kit Kat?
# Posted on September 15th 2004 by ceolachan
Re: vegan bodhran
Ceolachan, I know, I know...
Could be the Kit-Cat club founded in 1700 for cool politicians and writers.
Could be the term used for a not-quite half-length portrait.
Could be,like, you need a break, dude.
Who knows?
# Posted on September 15th 2004 by grego
Re: vegan bodhran
Folderol and darldeidi. Enough of the feck-arsing. Is there anyone out there with more information apropos of the questions I asked (Notwithstanding gratitude owing to the small minority, including Crocker and Ceolachan, for their helpful contributions)?
# Posted on September 15th 2004 by An Goban Saor
Re: vegan bodhran
What's needed here is a synthetic goat.
# Posted on September 16th 2004 by Ottery
Re: vegan bodhran
Honestly Phonsie, do really expect to post a thread entitled ' Vegan Bodhran' and not get ribbed. You were lucky to get 2 straight answers(!)
# Posted on September 16th 2004 by Ottery
Re: vegan bodhran
Well, you're welcome...
I have seen home made bodhrans produced from a cut down kit drum shell, tunable synthetic head, and standard kit drum tuning hardware. If you know a drummer with lots of old gear about, you might just be able to have one fashioned for you. I suspect the shell might require reinforcement, like a crossbar or braces, but it's quite do-able. One such bodhran had a very deep shell and sounded like cannon fire when hit hard.
Start checking those flea markets and yard sales!
Peace, Crocker.
# Posted on September 16th 2004 by Mooh
Re: vegan bodhran
Bren, the trick is to pull the horse's hair without getting killed yourself.
Strikes me that some fiddlers do all right with a fairly stiff wrist. And if you want a looser one yourself, for fiddling, work at it with your bow and fiddle. I'm having a hard time picturing a wrist on the bodhran (with or without a tipper) moving anything like what it needs to for bowing. If you want to learn how to swim, don't climb on a bicycle.....
# Posted on September 16th 2004 by Will Harmon
Re: vegan bodhran
If you can find a Lambeg drum maker, ask him if he can sell you an old skin off a used/broken drum, then bring it to a bodhrán maker. There's a fella on Sandy Row in Belfast who sells some of his second-hand direct to bodhrán makers. Best of both worlds - good goatskin without wasting an extra goat.
# Posted on September 16th 2004 by Conán McDonnell
Re: vegan bodhran
Now that's ecumenicism!
# Posted on September 16th 2004 by Bren
Re: vegan bodhran
I can't remember where the site was, but I came across someone describing how they wanted to make a possum skin banjo, but didn't want to kill a possum. So they spent days scouring the local highways for roadkill that was definitely dead, but sufficiently whole for the purpose.
Bren talks of getting the horse hair without killing the horse - yes, but don't vegans refuse to use any animal products at all, however obtained. (What do they use as fertiliser on their gardens?)
Don't get me started on the whole veggy thing, or I'll tell you how we get milk, and that'll really put you off.
# Posted on September 16th 2004 by showaddydadito
Re: vegan bodhran
What is all this Sacrifice? Why not use a goat that has already died.
Do all bodhran makers creep about at full-moon, ready to slit a goats throat and drink its blood?
# Posted on September 16th 2004 by geoffwright
Re: vegan bodhran
Geoff, if only you knew!!
Does anyone know of Eamonn Maguire and his nocturnal trips to the Cooley mountains?
# Posted on September 16th 2004 by Conán McDonnell
Re: vegan bodhran
At the risk of being castigated, whoops, I made my own bodhran from an old bass drum skin. I don't know what it's made of, but it's not animal or human.
As I took up the fiddle later on in life I don't know about the wrist flexibility thing with the bowing, but I do triplets and stuff okay. I also use the back of the hand for some rythms, so perhaps the bodhran does have a use.
# Posted on September 16th 2004 by celticrichie
Re: vegan bodhran
PS. Sorry to get back to the question.
# Posted on September 16th 2004 by celticrichie
Re: vegan bodhran
I suppose one alternative would be to culture some of your own squamous epithelium skin cells. And where would acquire them from? Well, to be trully in the spirit of alternative medecine might I suggest the following?
http://www.trepan.com/
# Posted on September 16th 2004 by Rudall the time
Re: vegan bodhran
Whoa. Danny, you hang out in some weird places.
# Posted on September 16th 2004 by Michele Sims
Re: vegan bodhran
Yeah - and I've got a splitting headache to prove it.
# Posted on September 16th 2004 by Rudall the time
Re: vegan bodhran
Oooh. Dang. Something in my...eye.
# Posted on September 16th 2004 by Michele Sims
Re: vegan bodhran
How's it Phonsie, there y'are eh.
Vegan, I doubt it. Best bet is one with a Synthetic Head made in Pakistan. It's tunable on the outside, or the Remo one Crocker has.
Anyway:
http://www.musicoutfitters.com/ethnic/btwr.htm
Keep the Leine untucked.
# Posted on September 16th 2004 by jdcorcra
Re: vegan bodhran
Yep. And I'd rather have a quiet toke than a Diet Coke.
# Posted on September 16th 2004 by Rudall the time
Re: vegan bodhran
I suppose it’s time for me to again put a spake in, if only to acknowledge the sheer volume of contributions to the discussion. Corcra, nice to hear from you (the question of the leine hanging free or tucked in should perhaps be left to minor ITM theologians – or deferred to our next symposium in Galway at an appropriately advanced stage in the proceedings). As for those of you who scoff at my concern for our caprine fellow creatures, may the almighty goat-god Pan have mercy on your souls when you attempt to gain entry to the great Puck Fair in the sky. I’ll say no more on that. Regarding the book under the arm procedure, Jim, apart from the thickness of the tome concerned, does its content matter. Would, for example, my hardback copy of 1001 Gems, The Dance Music of Ireland, by O’Neill impart a more authentic feel to the sound produced than, say, A Streetcar Named Desire, which might give it a certain New Orleans vibe? Seriously, I’ve tried that, but found that it not only impaired my arm movement but my breathing and thus proved somewhat unproductive. Slan go foill.
# Posted on September 16th 2004 by An Goban Saor
Re: vegan bodhran
Additional incentive to find a goat-free bodhran skin: (from the Irish Independent, March 2004)
RURAL Ireland has been hit by an outbreak of goat rustling as animals are picked up by stealth for the lucrative black market in skins to make bodhran hand drums for traditional music groups. One goat rearing group has asked Agriculture Minister, Joe Walsh, to begin an investigation.
Thefts of goats - many family pets as well as farm animals - have occurred in Cork, Clare, Kerry and Limerick.
The Irish Goat Producers Association (IGPA) want tough action by the gardai and the Department of Agriculture to trace those responsible.
Director Josephine Monks said goat owners suspect the animals are disappearing because of the value of their hides.
"There is definitely something very sinister going on. It's mostly mature goats that have disappeared, many of them family pets," she said.
"There is a huge demand for hides for making bodhrans," she said.
However, both gardai and goat-owners acknowledge the disappearences have nothing to do with the reputable bodhran trade but both are suspicious of black-market manufacturers who aren't concerned with traditional methods.
Gardai said 15 goats were recently stolen in West Cork. They suspect some were shot.
# Posted on September 16th 2004 by grego
Re: vegan bodhran
Thumb under the frog - 18th c French style of bowing, I believe. Might not work for everyone, depending on personal anatomy.
Trevor
# Posted on September 17th 2004 by Trevor Jennings
Re: vegan bodhran
I stand corrected on that, Jim – I confused your advice with similar advice from somebody else which did feature holding a book under the arm. Thanks anyway for that and your other advice. Since you raise your meat eating habit, well here goes: I put it to you whether eating habits should take account of ethics as well as etiquette (there is a fundamental difference, and it is often the case, it seems to me, that those who make the greatest show of etiquette are the least ethical). And on that serious note, the question also arises why the concept of a vegan bodhran should necessarily elicit derision, as one or more interlocutors have suggested. Maybe they should: (a) visit an abattoir sometime, so that they can find out at first hand that how their meat is produced is no joke; and (b) do some basic research into nutrition, so that they might find out how unnecessary all that cruelty and death is. Anyway, Grego, thanks for that brilliant and supportive piece of Googling (presumably that’s how you found that gem). It just goes to show that there are usually ecological implications to musical as well as dietary proclivities. Leave the kid on the mountain I say.
# Posted on September 17th 2004 by An Goban Saor
Re: vegan bodhran
I think that an artificial Bodhran skin would probably be made of a synthetic material derived from oil. I have no firm proof of this, but I strongly suspect that the oil industry damages to animals than goat abattoirs, freelance or otherwise.
Though maybe I'm wrong.
# Posted on September 17th 2004 by Ottery
Re: vegan bodhran
Sorry, 'damages more animals'
# Posted on September 17th 2004 by Ottery
Re: vegan bodhran
Point to phonsie. And didn't Mr. Thoreau, sulking beside his stagnant pond, mutter something along the lines of 'the unexamined life is not worth living'?
# Posted on September 17th 2004 by Michele Sims
Re: vegan bodhran
It took a while, but now I get it: Since goats are well known not to spend much time examining their lives...
Right?
# Posted on September 17th 2004 by grego
Re: vegan bodhran
Ummm. Something like that, grego.
# Posted on September 17th 2004 by Michele Sims
Re: vegan bodhran
Another goat-related scene: Last few years, it is not uncommon to see large truckloads of goats traveling through town on their way to weed-control gigs on the National Forest. Some enterprising souls rounded up surplus goats, invested in some kind of portable fencing, and hire out the goats to do what they do best-eat stuff. Much nicer than all the mechanical and chemical alternatives. And they look so cute out there, frolicking in the bosky dells.
# Posted on September 17th 2004 by Michele Sims
Re: vegan bodhran
Concerning your quote, "The unexamined life...", Batlady, you're over two millenia out in your attribution. It was Socrates who said that. And if you're associating me with Socrates, that's fine and dandy with me, because Socrates is one of the greats in my book (up there with Kevin Burke even). I mean if he was good enough to be Plato's mentor... Actually Socrates isn't entirely irrelevant to this discussion (is there anything irrelevant at this stage) because he is one of the two greatest scapegoats in history (I would recommend that you read Plato's "Allegory of the Cave" in this respect).
# Posted on September 17th 2004 by An Goban Saor
Re: vegan bodhran
Did you hear about the kid from Tulla?
# Posted on September 18th 2004 by An Goban Saor
Re: vegan bodhran
Please forgive another serious reply. Some Remo hand drums come with a synthetic head called FiberSkyn. I like it a bit better than most fake skins and it seems to resemble a banjo head of the same make. I'd research whether such a product is available in a piece large enough for your requirements. Good luck!
Crocker
# Posted on September 19th 2004 by Mooh
Re: vegan bodhran
Sorry about this, Jim, but the "punchline" to this family-friendly joke of sorts isn't going to work in this context, but here goes: His mother was a goat. I know, I know, but I just thought I'd throw it in to swing myslelf out of what was becoming something like that final cascando (to borrow a term from Beckett) in the "Cliffs of Moher". Thanks for the lifeline anyway. (The literary reference perhaps prompted by the nod towards John B Keane's novels "Durango" and "The Bodhran Makers", neither of which I've read yet, though Corcra has.)
# Posted on September 19th 2004 by An Goban Saor
Re: vegan bodhran
PS I tried the thumb under the frog method and it does seem to be very effective. However, I'd be afraid of persisting with it, as I I've probably got enough heresies to be going on with already.
# Posted on September 19th 2004 by An Goban Saor
Re: vegan bodhran
Jim, I read about the thumb under the frog bowing style, as used in 18c France, a few years ago in a library book about the history of the violin. Can't remember the name of the book now, but I'll try to track it down next time I'm at the library.
- so there is much less build-up of black gunge on the hair near the frog.
I occasionally use the technique; it's refreshening and surprisingly comfortable - the hand is in a slightly more open and less tight configuration. One advantage, especially with a newly haired bow, is that it keeps the fingers and thumb well away from the hair - no holding the bow half-way up the stick
Trevor
# Posted on September 19th 2004 by Trevor Jennings
Re: vegan bodhran
By the way, don't forget Billy the Kid and The Sodi Pop kid. Has anyone come up with a credible explanation for that strange wild west phonomenon whereby so many kids became gun totin' desperados on the outlaw trail? Well I believe I've come up with a cogent hypothesis: When your mother's been poleaxed to make a bodhran, revenge knows no bounds.
# Posted on September 20th 2004 by An Goban Saor
Re: vegan bodhran
Time out there because of work... Down in the wilds of Tipperary way back when, and the only injun good bad or indifferent was in the imagination for want of fellow actors to play the parts, as the only kids were the four legged ones ...
# Posted on September 23rd 2004 by An Goban Saor
Re: vegan bodhran
PS Thanks, Crocker, if you're still there, for the serious reply, notwithstanding the wacky raimeas that seems to inevitably result from cyberspace interaction. Without wishing to instigate further rounds of sapient dialectics, I wonder if there a protocol for bringing closure to a thread, and what happens to the thread eventually?
# Posted on September 24th 2004 by An Goban Saor
Re: vegan bodhran
Phonsie, I don't think there is any such protocol. Some threads seem to die naturally (e.g. if they're giving information about a forthcoming event) and there is nothing more to be said, or may drag on (like the elephant one #4525 - although that one looks like it's coming to an end).
However, no thread really "dies" or closes, however old it is, because people come across them in searches and may have new comments to post on the subject - I've done it myself once or twice. (BTW, you can always mention your appreciation of this site to Jeremy by posting a suitable comment in thread #1!).
Sometimes, a thread may apparently disappear, or be edited, if Jeremy thinks the subject matter is better off in another thread or perhaps in the Tunes or Sessions sections (probably the most common reason); rarely, a thread may be deleted if the subject matter or the way in which it is discussed is deemed inappropriate to the site.
Trevor
# Posted on September 24th 2004 by Trevor Jennings