Part of what makes a tune easy is its musical appeal. If a tune can be 'understood' on first hearing, it can make the most unnatural digital contortions seem effortless.
Jimbob, tunes are "difficult" only if you lack the technical ability to play them. Once you've got your chops going, I find it more encouraging to think of tunes not as difficult or easy, but as unfamiliar or familiar. An unfamiliar tune will feel difficult only as long as you remain unfamiliar with it. Once you have it in your head, it's not difficult anymore.
Which is what David said, only wordier. My point though has been a crucial distinction to me--it's easy to be intimidated by "difficult" tunes. It's much easier to relax and learn a tune that's merely unfamiliar.
The same is true of playing in different keys, or using various techniques. Tommy's Tarbukas will feel "difficult" if you're accustomed to playing in D, G, and A, but not G minor. Likewise, rolls are hard to play until you can play them. Then they become not only easy, but 'natural.'
I'm only speaking of fiddle here, and what might be considered 'difficult' for different reasons :
'Hound Dog' - polka (Martin O'Connor) if you're not used to playing way up-tempo and accurately, and with some 'ricochet' bowing.
'Contradiction Reel' if you're not used to playing out of the 1st position. (Suppose I'd better include the controversial Sean Maguire setting of 'Mason's Apron' as well for this reason).
'The Coulin' - needs good 'long' bow control, many players don't have it, so the tune is played too quickly and the soul of it is lost.
'Ladies Choice #2' - A major, tricky bowed and fingered triplets and lots of string crossing at speed.
With the press and draw system that I use, the Concertina Reel is a very awkward tune to play on the concertina. I could get away with it in a session where you can flunk the odd note or two, but it`s certainly not a tune I`d try doing solo. It goes nicely before Go (or is it Come ?) West Along the Road as per the famous Noel Hill/Tony MacMahon album.
I think it's a crap tune, too, but most of the people I know who play it learned it because it's easy (on fiddle anyway) and they can easily make it swing. Some of them even like it. Who'm I to get in their way?
Who wants to learn difficult tunes?
Well, at least, who wants to learn difficult tunes that the listeners don't realise are difficult?
Me, I'm always looking for EASY tunes which sound as if I'm playing a difficult one(:-o
(That means tongue in cheek, you twitchy responders)
Things like Bucks of Oranmore, Trip to Durrow, Humours of Tullah - like that.
Dusty Windowsills is not too difficult on the tenor banjo, but I've rarely met a fiddle player who wants to play it.
Concertina reel is technically easy on the banjo, but the brain dies halfway through from all the repeated phrases.
Playing it well is a triumph of continuous concentration rather than agility of the fingers.
The audience likes it when you get a sizeable group playing with a good back beat on the second half of each phrase.
"Audience"??? Heh, I suspect that's why some of my musical cohorts like to play the Concertina Reel--it wins over the punters. At which point I awake from my blissful stupor, suddenly aware for the first time again that punters have escaped into our taproom and are eavesdropping. Sigh.
Most polkas. Difficult!? Well yes, if you play them at the speed the set dancers expect, and with lift.
The trouble is that polkas are often among the very first tunes that beginners are taught because many of them have notes that are easy for the fingers and bow to play at slow speed, and they are generally inherently simple tunes to learn from the memory point of view, anyway - so they can be ideal tunes for a beginner's confidence.
However, unless the beginners get exposed to the set dancing speed they will naturally tend to play these tunes at a fairly sedate pace for evermore, even when they have progressed to a higher level.
Listen to a ceili band such as Johnny Reidy's for the right sort of polka speed. This speed, when played cleanly and with lift, needs a lot of work to achieve, but when you can do it you'll realise these polkas can really fly.
Trevor
TJ, be careful about encouraging people to play polkas fast. A lot of set dancing (not all!) has turned into automatons lashing around as fast as they can with massively over-speedy tunes. I was gobsmacked recently to see people calling for more speed when they couldn't even step out properly for what was being played. Lift in polkas comes through when they are played properly (rhythm-wise) not fast (I know you didn't mean to imply otherwise). In the early days of the set dance revival we used to travel around with Brooks Academy and the overwhelming impression of the sets that were being collected was of grace and relaxation (battering included). Speedy is fun too but it's way overdone now. It seems to me that it's the same phenomenon as musicians playing fast before they're really capable of it because they think they sound better. The kinetic rush that comes with moving quickly doesn't equal good dancing (of course, I know plenty of people who dance brilliantly at speed but it's minority).
Anyway.... polkas are such great tunes when they're played well at a steady pace. Let's keep the emphasis on rhythm.
I've always been told that The Mason's Apron is the most difficult on the fiddle, but I've always found it dead easy to play. That might be because I'm one of those 'classically trained' fiddlers who saw the light....
Depends mostly on your instrument I reckon. Will H says he finds concertina reel difficult; it's one of the easiest on a piano accordion. So's the Silver Spire(not Spear)- on my instrument, all it's notes fall nicely under the fingers with a minimum of hand position-changes. For the same reason the Blackthorn reel is a pillock for me to play. Tommy Peoples' and Fahey's reels leave me well challenged, but not surprising, they're obviously fiddle tunes. Wheels of the World, Mother's delight, much the same...
Difficult tune
Difficult tune
What is the most difficult tune? I'm sure it's Tommy's Tarbukas on accordion and apparently it is quite challenging on fiddle too.
# Posted on September 13th 2004 by jimbob
Re: Difficult tune
Part of what makes a tune easy is its musical appeal. If a tune can be 'understood' on first hearing, it can make the most unnatural digital contortions seem effortless.
# Posted on September 13th 2004 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: Difficult tune
One word: Reevey.
# Posted on September 13th 2004 by Eliot
Re: Difficult tune
Er, would that be Reavy you mean?
My point though has been a crucial distinction to me--it's easy to be intimidated by "difficult" tunes. It's much easier to relax and learn a tune that's merely unfamiliar.
Jimbob, tunes are "difficult" only if you lack the technical ability to play them. Once you've got your chops going, I find it more encouraging to think of tunes not as difficult or easy, but as unfamiliar or familiar. An unfamiliar tune will feel difficult only as long as you remain unfamiliar with it. Once you have it in your head, it's not difficult anymore.
Which is what David said, only wordier.
The same is true of playing in different keys, or using various techniques. Tommy's Tarbukas will feel "difficult" if you're accustomed to playing in D, G, and A, but not G minor. Likewise, rolls are hard to play until you can play them. Then they become not only easy, but 'natural.'
# Posted on September 13th 2004 by Will Harmon
Re: Difficult tune
Yes, Reavy, but I wish he would learn to spell his name. 8-P
# Posted on September 13th 2004 by Eliot
Re: Difficult tune
I'm only speaking of fiddle here, and what might be considered 'difficult' for different reasons :
'Hound Dog' - polka (Martin O'Connor) if you're not used to playing way up-tempo and accurately, and with some 'ricochet' bowing.
'Contradiction Reel' if you're not used to playing out of the 1st position. (Suppose I'd better include the controversial Sean Maguire setting of 'Mason's Apron' as well for this reason).
'The Coulin' - needs good 'long' bow control, many players don't have it, so the tune is played too quickly and the soul of it is lost.
'Ladies Choice #2' - A major, tricky bowed and fingered triplets and lots of string crossing at speed.
Tons more, but I think that's enough for now!
Jim
# Posted on September 13th 2004 by Worldfiddler
Re: Difficult tune
Personally, I find the Concertina Reel difficult to play.
# Posted on September 13th 2004 by Will Harmon
Re: Difficult tune
With the press and draw system that I use, the Concertina Reel is a very awkward tune to play on the concertina. I could get away with it in a session where you can flunk the odd note or two, but it`s certainly not a tune I`d try doing solo. It goes nicely before Go (or is it Come ?) West Along the Road as per the famous Noel Hill/Tony MacMahon album.
# Posted on September 13th 2004 by murfbox
Re: Difficult tune
Well it falls very easily on the fiddle. Too easily. Too easily and too often.
# Posted on September 13th 2004 by Will Harmon
Re: Difficult tune
It's crap tune and yet people learn because it's difficult. That's diddlers for you
# Posted on September 14th 2004 by ...
Re: Difficult tune
I think it's a crap tune, too, but most of the people I know who play it learned it because it's easy (on fiddle anyway) and they can easily make it swing. Some of them even like it. Who'm I to get in their way?
# Posted on September 14th 2004 by Will Harmon
Re: Difficult tune
Who wants to learn difficult tunes?
Well, at least, who wants to learn difficult tunes that the listeners don't realise are difficult?
Me, I'm always looking for EASY tunes which sound as if I'm playing a difficult one(:-o
(That means tongue in cheek, you twitchy responders)
Things like Bucks of Oranmore, Trip to Durrow, Humours of Tullah - like that.
Dusty Windowsills is not too difficult on the tenor banjo, but I've rarely met a fiddle player who wants to play it.
Concertina reel is technically easy on the banjo, but the brain dies halfway through from all the repeated phrases.
Playing it well is a triumph of continuous concentration rather than agility of the fingers.
The audience likes it when you get a sizeable group playing with a good back beat on the second half of each phrase.
# Posted on September 14th 2004 by philgregg
Re: Difficult tune
"Audience"??? Heh, I suspect that's why some of my musical cohorts like to play the Concertina Reel--it wins over the punters. At which point I awake from my blissful stupor, suddenly aware for the first time again that punters have escaped into our taproom and are eavesdropping. Sigh.
# Posted on September 14th 2004 by Will Harmon
Re: Difficult tune
Most polkas. Difficult!? Well yes, if you play them at the speed the set dancers expect, and with lift.
The trouble is that polkas are often among the very first tunes that beginners are taught because many of them have notes that are easy for the fingers and bow to play at slow speed, and they are generally inherently simple tunes to learn from the memory point of view, anyway - so they can be ideal tunes for a beginner's confidence.
However, unless the beginners get exposed to the set dancing speed they will naturally tend to play these tunes at a fairly sedate pace for evermore, even when they have progressed to a higher level.
Listen to a ceili band such as Johnny Reidy's for the right sort of polka speed. This speed, when played cleanly and with lift, needs a lot of work to achieve, but when you can do it you'll realise these polkas can really fly.
Trevor
# Posted on September 14th 2004 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Polkas
Oh, no!! Hobby horse alert!
TJ, be careful about encouraging people to play polkas fast. A lot of set dancing (not all!) has turned into automatons lashing around as fast as they can with massively over-speedy tunes. I was gobsmacked recently to see people calling for more speed when they couldn't even step out properly for what was being played. Lift in polkas comes through when they are played properly (rhythm-wise) not fast (I know you didn't mean to imply otherwise). In the early days of the set dance revival we used to travel around with Brooks Academy and the overwhelming impression of the sets that were being collected was of grace and relaxation (battering included). Speedy is fun too but it's way overdone now. It seems to me that it's the same phenomenon as musicians playing fast before they're really capable of it because they think they sound better. The kinetic rush that comes with moving quickly doesn't equal good dancing (of course, I know plenty of people who dance brilliantly at speed but it's minority).
Anyway.... polkas are such great tunes when they're played well at a steady pace. Let's keep the emphasis on rhythm.
# Posted on September 14th 2004 by skerries
Re: Difficult tune
What about dodecaphonics?
# Posted on September 14th 2004 by P.browne
Re: Difficult tune
Indeed, what about them?
Trevor
# Posted on September 14th 2004 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Difficult tune
I've always been told that The Mason's Apron is the most difficult on the fiddle, but I've always found it dead easy to play. That might be because I'm one of those 'classically trained' fiddlers who saw the light....
# Posted on September 14th 2004 by hoopoe
Re: Difficult tune
Way to go, jimod!
So you'll be ripping through 'The Contradiction' and the like (assuming you like the tune!)
Jim
# Posted on September 14th 2004 by Worldfiddler
Re: Difficult tune
Depends mostly on your instrument I reckon. Will H says he finds concertina reel difficult; it's one of the easiest on a piano accordion. So's the Silver Spire(not Spear)- on my instrument, all it's notes fall nicely under the fingers with a minimum of hand position-changes. For the same reason the Blackthorn reel is a pillock for me to play. Tommy Peoples' and Fahey's reels leave me well challenged, but not surprising, they're obviously fiddle tunes. Wheels of the World, Mother's delight, much the same...
# Posted on September 16th 2004 by petemay
Re: Difficult tune
Sorry Pete. I was making a crack at the tune. It's easy on fiddle, difficult only on my sense of musical taste.
# Posted on September 16th 2004 by Will Harmon