I play piano accordion but want to get a 2 rwo row box. I would be grateful for any advice not just on tuning (seems to be a lot of conflict over this one)but make too, and where to buy mail order .... I know that's a lot to ask... promise I won't ask you to play it for me too
I live in Spain at the moment so it's a bit of a wilderness but just had a fantastic August in Clare, Galway and Sligo hassling box players about this. Still not sure
Well if you've spent a month hassling box players and still can't make up your mind, I don't know whether we can help! But I recently faced this same choice myself, so here are a couple of ideas.
1) Ask yourself which players you most like the sound of. C#/D will definitely produce a punchier sound in most common keys, but will make you work correspondingly harder on the bellows. B/C will be more fluid and easier on the bellows arm but require more careful attention to fingering technique, it seems to me (as a rank beginner I hasten to add).
2) If you can, get the loan of a two-row box, anything with a semitone between the rows, and then experiment with it as if it were one system and then the other.
This is what I did - a friend loaned me his B/C while he was out of the country and I tried it as a B/C and then pretending it was C#/D. I already had a preference in mind, but trying both systems this way really made the choice easy for me.
From a technique point of view, I think it's easier to make the transition from piano accordion to button accordion with a B/C box. You can think of the C row as the white keys, and the B row as your black key notes (other than the duplicate B and E notes). From my end as a pianist, my line of thought is mostly based on the C scale, and I thought it wasn't too difficult a transition to button accordion.
On the other hand, I'd agree with Steve that you should go with the kind that your favorite players use. I believe that John Williams and Johnny B Connolly use B/C, and Jackie Daly, Sharon Shannon use a C#/D.
the problem is I like both lots depends on which day you ask. life's too short. But that's very useful re transition from keyboard. It seems to be stackng towards BC... but is it at all possible to punch and pop on BC like Shaz and Jackie?
Dermot currently plays C#D.
Pick whatever your comfortable with.
In my opinion it doesn`t really matter what one you end up with,
you still come up against the the same problems.
For instance,I play B/C,and if I play a tune in C(which many tunes are written in) it`s the same as D fingering on a C#/D and every tune has its own combination of bellows work,so if I play a tune in D on the B/C
it doesnt necessarily mean it`s going to be a smooth ride.
play D,F#,A,F,D on a B/C and it`s out in out in out on the bellows.
Play the same on a C#/D and it`s all the same direction.
You can also play chunk on a B/C and smooth on a C#D.
And also pooled with the fact that the general repertoire in ITM anyway
is to know how to play in C,D,E,F,G,A,Bb .
so,its a bitch either way you look at it.
Oh ,and one more thing,
The reeds always seem a little tighter on a C#/D to me anyway.
I tried Dermot Byrne`s Briggs with both sets of reeds in it and that was impression I got.
Maybe because they were more played in,who knows...
Ah,I`m goin t bed
Me for myself I am very much C Sharp/D fan, but it's down to personal preference. I agree with what the others say, but in addition to what is being said it is worth remembering that you actually can play both styles on the one box, you just won't be in standard keys. Which is not great for playing with people, but as you are "in the wilderness", you are at least able to experiment with both styles.
Chromatic Harmonica players have a similar situation to players of two-row box - a row in, say C and, when you press the slide button in, a row in C#.
Playing a B-C harmonica gives the same advantages of smoothness as a B-C box, but with the same problem in arpeggiating a D major chord:
D: Draw 1, slide in
F#: Blow 3 (a leap), slide out
A: Draw 3, slide in
D: Draw 5 (a leap), slide in.
(I should point out that a hole leap is a bigger deal on harmonica than on box. Imagine if your finger had to drag across all the intervening buttons every time you leapt to a non-neighboring button.)
I used a B-C harmonica for awhile before exploring diatonic harmonicas. Now I'm back around to chromatics but with the idea of an E-F instrument.
Why?
The idea of using a B-C instrument puts the oft-used keys of D and A (also G) into keys that require relatively few direction changes (in breath, same as bellows on a box). This allows faster, smoother play of scale passages and more access to ornaments. But as noted, it makes certain arpeggios rather awkward .
The E-F tuning allows for very smooth arpeggios on the A and D major chords. And the keys of A minor, D minor and G minor are a lot smoother than they are on B-C tuning.
Check it out by transposing keys on your existing box:
- if you have a B-C box, play concert F to get the feel of A, play concert Bb to get the feel of D, and play concert Eb to get the feel of G.
- if you have a C#-D box, play concert G to get the feel of A, concert C to get the feel of D, and concert F to get the feel of G.
BC or C#D Box?
BC or C#D Box?
Hi All
I play piano accordion but want to get a 2 rwo row box. I would be grateful for any advice not just on tuning (seems to be a lot of conflict over this one)but make too, and where to buy mail order .... I know that's a lot to ask... promise I won't ask you to play it for me too
I live in Spain at the moment so it's a bit of a wilderness but just had a fantastic August in Clare, Galway and Sligo hassling box players about this. Still not sure
Brendan
# Posted on August 27th 2004 by Brendun
Re: BC or C#D Box?
Well if you've spent a month hassling box players and still can't make up your mind, I don't know whether we can help! But I recently faced this same choice myself, so here are a couple of ideas.
1) Ask yourself which players you most like the sound of. C#/D will definitely produce a punchier sound in most common keys, but will make you work correspondingly harder on the bellows. B/C will be more fluid and easier on the bellows arm but require more careful attention to fingering technique, it seems to me (as a rank beginner I hasten to add).
2) If you can, get the loan of a two-row box, anything with a semitone between the rows, and then experiment with it as if it were one system and then the other.
This is what I did - a friend loaned me his B/C while he was out of the country and I tried it as a B/C and then pretending it was C#/D. I already had a preference in mind, but trying both systems this way really made the choice easy for me.
HTH Steve
# Posted on August 27th 2004 by Jeeves Tones
Anyone know whether Shane Mitchell plays B/C or C#/D?
?
# Posted on August 27th 2004 by Brendun
Re: BC or C#D Box?
From a technique point of view, I think it's easier to make the transition from piano accordion to button accordion with a B/C box. You can think of the C row as the white keys, and the B row as your black key notes (other than the duplicate B and E notes). From my end as a pianist, my line of thought is mostly based on the C scale, and I thought it wasn't too difficult a transition to button accordion.
On the other hand, I'd agree with Steve that you should go with the kind that your favorite players use. I believe that John Williams and Johnny B Connolly use B/C, and Jackie Daly, Sharon Shannon use a C#/D.
# Posted on August 27th 2004 by jmmana
Re: BC or C#D Box?
thanks J
the problem is I like both lots depends on which day you ask. life's too short. But that's very useful re transition from keyboard. It seems to be stackng towards BC... but is it at all possible to punch and pop on BC like Shaz and Jackie?
# Posted on August 27th 2004 by Brendun
Re: BC or C#D Box?
what does Dermot Byrne use, anyone ken?
-Padraig
# Posted on August 27th 2004 by Pádraig
Re: BC or C#D Box?
i know nothing about the box. however... i know one thing: concertinas are much better. jk
# Posted on August 27th 2004 by daiv
Re: BC or C#D Box?
Doesn't Dermot Byrne play both B/C & C#/D?
# Posted on August 27th 2004 by JMH
Re: BC or C#D Box?
Dermot currently plays C#D.
Pick whatever your comfortable with.
In my opinion it doesn`t really matter what one you end up with,
you still come up against the the same problems.
For instance,I play B/C,and if I play a tune in C(which many tunes are written in) it`s the same as D fingering on a C#/D and every tune has its own combination of bellows work,so if I play a tune in D on the B/C
it doesnt necessarily mean it`s going to be a smooth ride.
play D,F#,A,F,D on a B/C and it`s out in out in out on the bellows.
Play the same on a C#/D and it`s all the same direction.
You can also play chunk on a B/C and smooth on a C#D.
And also pooled with the fact that the general repertoire in ITM anyway
is to know how to play in C,D,E,F,G,A,Bb .
so,its a bitch either way you look at it.
Peter
# Posted on August 28th 2004 by P.browne
Re: BC or C#D Box?
Oh ,and one more thing,
The reeds always seem a little tighter on a C#/D to me anyway.
I tried Dermot Byrne`s Briggs with both sets of reeds in it and that was impression I got.
Maybe because they were more played in,who knows...
Ah,I`m goin t bed
# Posted on August 28th 2004 by P.browne
Re: BC or C#D Box?
Me for myself I am very much C Sharp/D fan, but it's down to personal preference. I agree with what the others say, but in addition to what is being said it is worth remembering that you actually can play both styles on the one box, you just won't be in standard keys. Which is not great for playing with people, but as you are "in the wilderness", you are at least able to experiment with both styles.
# Posted on September 1st 2004 by SL*
Re: BC or C#D Box? - what about E-F?
Chromatic Harmonica players have a similar situation to players of two-row box - a row in, say C and, when you press the slide button in, a row in C#.
Playing a B-C harmonica gives the same advantages of smoothness as a B-C box, but with the same problem in arpeggiating a D major chord:
D: Draw 1, slide in
F#: Blow 3 (a leap), slide out
A: Draw 3, slide in
D: Draw 5 (a leap), slide in.
(I should point out that a hole leap is a bigger deal on harmonica than on box. Imagine if your finger had to drag across all the intervening buttons every time you leapt to a non-neighboring button.)
I used a B-C harmonica for awhile before exploring diatonic harmonicas. Now I'm back around to chromatics but with the idea of an E-F instrument.
Why?
The idea of using a B-C instrument puts the oft-used keys of D and A (also G) into keys that require relatively few direction changes (in breath, same as bellows on a box). This allows faster, smoother play of scale passages and more access to ornaments. But as noted, it makes certain arpeggios rather awkward .
The E-F tuning allows for very smooth arpeggios on the A and D major chords. And the keys of A minor, D minor and G minor are a lot smoother than they are on B-C tuning.
Check it out by transposing keys on your existing box:
- if you have a B-C box, play concert F to get the feel of A, play concert Bb to get the feel of D, and play concert Eb to get the feel of G.
- if you have a C#-D box, play concert G to get the feel of A, concert C to get the feel of D, and concert F to get the feel of G.
Winslow
# Posted on September 2nd 2004 by Winslow Yerxa
Re: BC or C#D Box?
tanx SL! tanx all!
I'm decided on C#D god help me
now I've just got to find one
# Posted on September 2nd 2004 by Brendun