I'm thinking of getting hold of a pickup for my fiddle but know next to nothing about them. I have a very resonant Guarneri copy fiddle (if you need to know that) and (amplified) play pretty much solely for ceilidh dances (if you need to know that!) Any comments would be greatly appreciated. Also, to save you looking at my profile, I live in the Scottish Highlands and my nearest big town (sorry, city) is Inverness (for suppliers etc. if you need to know that!) Thankyou!
For non-mic applications, the Fishman bridge pickup works pretty well, although sound quality is not the greatest. You can combine it with a lavalier mic, or just use the mic. Crown and AudioTechnica make decent ones.
This is from research mostly. I used the Fishman on a bad fiddle, so that was probably not a great test of the sound.
The lavaliers are condenser mics and can give you feedback in a loud room. Attached to the fiddle, it is difficult to insulate them from bow scratches, heavy fingers or sighs of joy.
All said, I still think I prefer playing into a standard mic. I have a analog AKG that works well, but I don't think they make it anymore.
I use a Barkus Berry clamp-on pickup on a cheap fiddle with a BB preamp-EQ into a Roland AC-60 acoustic amp. The sound is really good and takes just a minute to change it to another fiddle or take it off, which is nice.
I have jumped from pick-up to pick-up. Right now I use a Mic/pick-up combo, but you will get the best sound out of just a mic. I use an SM-57 by Shure. The baggs pick-up soundds ok if you have a fiddle that is quieter. Older fiddles tend to resonate more and the baggs pick-up will distort and fuzz alot. It sounds like shite!! The pick-up i use now is the Realist. It is an awesome pick-up. If you want this pick-up and can't abtain it in Scotland, you can Email me and maybe i can get one sent to you. I would recomend this pick-up over any. Good luck!!
AJ
p.s. DO NOT EVER BUY AN ELECTRIC FIDDLE!!!! I did once and it was aweful sounding
Hmmm. This is really helpful, thankyou all very much. I'm dithering now - maybe I should just buy myself a decent mic and forget the pickup idea, but I do like the idea of not having to worry about shifting while playing and getting growled at by the sound guy!
berserker - Why do you say "Do not ever buy an electric fiddle"? Have you tried the Yamaha SV200 electric fiddle? It's got a wonderful sound, even when played through a modest PA system. It's as close to a miked-up or pick-up'd acoustic fiddle sound as you'll ever get. I use it constantly for gigs and home practice. Some electrics do sound a bit rough, though, especially if they are poorly set up, as would any instrument.
I used to use a Barcus-Berry integrated bridge pickup and it sounded great, well-balanced across the whole frequency range. The only disadvantage was the fact that you're stuck with it unless you change the bridge.
I don't think a good mike would be the answer either - unless you're playing in medium-sized and highly civilised venues. In my experience the mike always picks up extraneous unwanted sh*te which then gets amplified and mixed with the fiddle sound. Not good!
Anyone know what pickup Martin Hayes uses? It's very unobtrusive, fits on his bridge, and is linked to a radio transmitter he carries. Martin Hayes is currently playing an 18c fiddle, I believe.
BTW, this post originally mysteriously appeared on a completely different thread that I had even looked at!
As far as I know, Martin Hayes's pick up is built INTO the soundpost (I am not sure this English word is the one I'm looking for... I am referring to the small stick that is inside the fiddle, right under the bridge; we call it anima (soul) in Italy...).
Yet Martin's awesom sound is eventuallly elaborated by a complex of racks, equalizers, compressors and stuff..
I've found two mics that work real well for on-stage use. They are both miniture capsules on a flexy assembly that clips onto the fiddle, usually onto a chinrest. We started in this direction because our fiddler doesn't like the pickups he's heard, and he can't stand still under a mic on a stand!
Because the capsules are so close to the fiddle they don't pick up a lot of the room noise and stuff around the player. Both are condensor mics and require phantom power, that is, they are powered by a voltage that comes back up the mic cable from a mixer or a preamp.
The AKG c-418 is meant to be a drum mic (we used to use it on a bodhran and it was good there too), and it's very small and has a versatile clip and joints that allow it to be clipped to a chinrest and positioned over the bridge or f-hole as you may choose. The AKG has an XLR connector on the end of its cable.
The AudioTechnica AT35x Pro has a smaller clip but a bit longer and flexier neck to the mic capsule. I think it sounds a bit better than the AKG. There is a model of this mic that ends in a mini-jack and requires a proprietary battery pack, but I prefer the one that has an XLR end (like a mic cable) and doesn't need the little box. We first heard this mic from the fiddler in the band Lunasa.
I like the way these sound better than any fiddle pickups that I've heard. They can be susceptible to feedback, but rarely, usually only with really loud stages with really loud monitors, like in bands with bass, keys and drums. That's been my experience...
We usually don't have to eq the fiddle at all in the PA. But... because the mic is so close to the fiddle, it -can- sound a tad dry, so a little bit of reverb or ambience can be added to it in the house mix.
Both of these list for over $100 new, but can usually be found used for much less. I think I paid around $80 for the AKG and about $60 each for four of the ATs in a batch.
Thanks, Nutsmuggler, for that most interesting information about Martin Hayes's pickup. I wonder if it's commercially available - probably not because it would need a luthier's skill and expertise to make such a soundpost (the correct word, btw!) and fit it in the fiddle. Perhaps his fiddle's a testbed for a research project.
I have a Fishman, but it only fits on my lovely old fiddle and I don't want to use it on it, so it stays in its box. I did get into a studio (once) and played micced. The guy behind the glass kept telling me not to hum. I couldn't stop. Lucky I'm just an amateur and humming doesn't matter.
i've got a fishman that clips into the notch of the bridge on the treble side. i run it into a passac pre-amp then to the p.a. always works, always sounds good. i put a spot of super glue on it so it doesn't slip out of the notch.
the fiddler in our band uses an AKG K419, or something with those dame letters and numbers in a different order. these mics are incredibly flexible and can be used with almost anything
I use a mic that clips onto the tailpiece - made by Griff Jones from Accusound (www.accusound.com). The sound is fabulous but can end up with dodgy feedback depending on the placement of your monitors and the line up of your band. But Griff can recommend what system to get if you tell him all these details and he just sends it up to you by post, so no need to leave the house. I used to use the Fishman bridge piezo pickup but fiddle sounded very tinny - even with a pre-amp. I also have a Bridge electric fiddle which I use for big gigs to cut back on the feedback. Not exactly the sound you would get from a acoustic fiddle, but the closest I have found of all electric fiddles and very easy for the sound guy to sort out. Good luck with your purchase.
Apparantly the LR Baggs pick-up is superior to the Fishmann (this is according to about four fiddlers I know who used to have Fishmanns).
The Baggs is a basically a bridge that you fit to your fiddle (get a maker to do it if you're not sure) that contains one or two transducers. A quarter inch jack mounts on to the top of the fiddle and is very convenient to use in most situations.
Sound reproduction (as a rule) from a pick-up is inferior to that of a mike but there are also volume and convenience issues to consider. For the purpose you have described I would recommend the LR Baggs pick-up with a pre-amp or at least a D.I. box.
This set-up will cost you less than two hundred pounds. The Music Station in Inverness will probably have what you need and even if you find the pick-up cheaply on the internet, I suggest that you take it into the shop to try out a couple of pre-amps.
Hope this is of help,
FMF
PS If you want to spoil yourself, I've played a few Starfish fiddles which are made by a guy in Ballahulish, and are great if you have fifteen hundred-od quid to play with!
Martin Hayes uses a Kurman sound post pickup.
It is made in Switzerland I think by Ronnie Arbieter. I have fitted two of these over the past two years and they sound very good.
Kevin Burke also uses one.
Cost about 500EURO.
Good luck
Mike
This is a very common question. I've begun an article on this subject at http://www.diddlywiki.org/index.php/Fiddle_Amplification. It includes basic descriptions of many of the options available, along with suggestions and some vague comparisons. Please feel free to add/correct it as suits your fancy.
The AKG c-419 that UglyBoyJoe mentions is a variation on the c-418 that I mentioned, the gooseneck thing is a bit different.
Jan Martin: I've had humming fiddlers in the studio before, too. There are various technical solutions (if they insist on humming... ).
That's better than the one who must stomp out the tempo. I had to put blankets and pillows around that foot...
Mikea, thanks for the Arbieter info! I always wondered...
Hm, soundpost pickup, I guess that's worth a try some day. I used a Fishman, it sounded awful. I tried the Baggs, also sounded awful. I tried Barcus Berry, it made the instrument unplayable without amplification - their bridge deadens the sound too much.
Now I use an AudioTechnica mic with a Samson Airline wireless transmitter. I had to dig a chinrest out of the bottom of my junk drawer and put it on the fiddle so that the mic clip had something to attach to, but otherwise it lets me play with complete freedom and there's no beating the sound of a good mic.
Yes, there are feedback issues to worry about though. Also playing outdoors, it needs a good wind baffle. So far I've been able to deal with these issues though.
We have two fiddlers in our band. One uses the Fishman and the other uses the Shadow. Both are transducers that push into one of the slots in the bridge. The Fishman generates a stronger signal than the Shadow so the gain needs to be turned up higher on the Shadow. Both connect into a DI box before the desk. Both sound good but note the following!
The Fishman is very sensitive to to the position of the transducer - get it wrong and it sounds really bad. Get it right and it sounds about as good as I've heard. Follow the instructions to fit it on the correct side of the bridge and check the sound. Then rotate the transducer relative to the bridge and try the sound again. Keep doing this until you find the best sound. We found that 45 degrees is a good starting point.
The Shadow has a mellower sound but gives much the same sound however it is installed. If the gain is too high it can introduce hum.
I know I should n't say it but pickups make gigging so much easier! However, in the studio we use mics.
Fiddle pickups: any advice?
Fiddle pickups: any advice?
I'm thinking of getting hold of a pickup for my fiddle but know next to nothing about them. I have a very resonant Guarneri copy fiddle (if you need to know that) and (amplified) play pretty much solely for ceilidh dances (if you need to know that!) Any comments would be greatly appreciated. Also, to save you looking at my profile, I live in the Scottish Highlands and my nearest big town (sorry, city) is Inverness (for suppliers etc. if you need to know that!) Thankyou!
# Posted on August 13th 2004 by west-coaster
Re: Fiddle pickups: any advice?
For non-mic applications, the Fishman bridge pickup works pretty well, although sound quality is not the greatest. You can combine it with a lavalier mic, or just use the mic. Crown and AudioTechnica make decent ones.
This is from research mostly. I used the Fishman on a bad fiddle, so that was probably not a great test of the sound.
The lavaliers are condenser mics and can give you feedback in a loud room. Attached to the fiddle, it is difficult to insulate them from bow scratches, heavy fingers or sighs of joy.
All said, I still think I prefer playing into a standard mic. I have a analog AKG that works well, but I don't think they make it anymore.
# Posted on August 13th 2004 by Jode
Re: Fiddle pickups: any advice?
I use a Barkus Berry clamp-on pickup on a cheap fiddle with a BB preamp-EQ into a Roland AC-60 acoustic amp. The sound is really good and takes just a minute to change it to another fiddle or take it off, which is nice.
# Posted on August 13th 2004 by Robby B.
Re: Fiddle pickups: any advice?
I have jumped from pick-up to pick-up. Right now I use a Mic/pick-up combo, but you will get the best sound out of just a mic. I use an SM-57 by Shure. The baggs pick-up soundds ok if you have a fiddle that is quieter. Older fiddles tend to resonate more and the baggs pick-up will distort and fuzz alot. It sounds like shite!! The pick-up i use now is the Realist. It is an awesome pick-up. If you want this pick-up and can't abtain it in Scotland, you can Email me and maybe i can get one sent to you. I would recomend this pick-up over any. Good luck!!
AJ
p.s. DO NOT EVER BUY AN ELECTRIC FIDDLE!!!! I did once and it was aweful sounding
# Posted on August 13th 2004 by berserker
Re: Fiddle pickups: any advice?
OH yeah. It is semi perminant. It attaches like a chin rest and then a piece of wire runs to a strip of foil that is placed under the bridge.
# Posted on August 13th 2004 by berserker
Re: Fiddle pickups: any advice?
Hmmm. This is really helpful, thankyou all very much. I'm dithering now - maybe I should just buy myself a decent mic and forget the pickup idea, but I do like the idea of not having to worry about shifting while playing and getting growled at by the sound guy!
# Posted on August 13th 2004 by west-coaster
Re: Fiddle pickups: any advice?
berserker - Why do you say "Do not ever buy an electric fiddle"? Have you tried the Yamaha SV200 electric fiddle? It's got a wonderful sound, even when played through a modest PA system. It's as close to a miked-up or pick-up'd acoustic fiddle sound as you'll ever get. I use it constantly for gigs and home practice. Some electrics do sound a bit rough, though, especially if they are poorly set up, as would any instrument.
I used to use a Barcus-Berry integrated bridge pickup and it sounded great, well-balanced across the whole frequency range. The only disadvantage was the fact that you're stuck with it unless you change the bridge.
I don't think a good mike would be the answer either - unless you're playing in medium-sized and highly civilised venues. In my experience the mike always picks up extraneous unwanted sh*te which then gets amplified and mixed with the fiddle sound. Not good!
Jim
# Posted on August 14th 2004 by Worldfiddler
Re: Fiddle pickups: any advice?
Anyone know what pickup Martin Hayes uses? It's very unobtrusive, fits on his bridge, and is linked to a radio transmitter he carries. Martin Hayes is currently playing an 18c fiddle, I believe.
BTW, this post originally mysteriously appeared on a completely different thread that I had even looked at!
Trevor
# Posted on August 14th 2004 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Fiddle pickups: any advice?
As far as I know, Martin Hayes's pick up is built INTO the soundpost (I am not sure this English word is the one I'm looking for... I am referring to the small stick that is inside the fiddle, right under the bridge; we call it anima (soul) in Italy...).
Yet Martin's awesom sound is eventuallly elaborated by a complex of racks, equalizers, compressors and stuff..
# Posted on August 14th 2004 by nutsmuggler
Re: Fiddle pickups: any advice?
I've found two mics that work real well for on-stage use. They are both miniture capsules on a flexy assembly that clips onto the fiddle, usually onto a chinrest. We started in this direction because our fiddler doesn't like the pickups he's heard, and he can't stand still under a mic on a stand!
Because the capsules are so close to the fiddle they don't pick up a lot of the room noise and stuff around the player. Both are condensor mics and require phantom power, that is, they are powered by a voltage that comes back up the mic cable from a mixer or a preamp.
The AKG c-418 is meant to be a drum mic (we used to use it on a bodhran and it was good there too), and it's very small and has a versatile clip and joints that allow it to be clipped to a chinrest and positioned over the bridge or f-hole as you may choose. The AKG has an XLR connector on the end of its cable.
The AudioTechnica AT35x Pro has a smaller clip but a bit longer and flexier neck to the mic capsule. I think it sounds a bit better than the AKG. There is a model of this mic that ends in a mini-jack and requires a proprietary battery pack, but I prefer the one that has an XLR end (like a mic cable) and doesn't need the little box. We first heard this mic from the fiddler in the band Lunasa.
I like the way these sound better than any fiddle pickups that I've heard. They can be susceptible to feedback, but rarely, usually only with really loud stages with really loud monitors, like in bands with bass, keys and drums. That's been my experience...
We usually don't have to eq the fiddle at all in the PA. But... because the mic is so close to the fiddle, it -can- sound a tad dry, so a little bit of reverb or ambience can be added to it in the house mix.
Both of these list for over $100 new, but can usually be found used for much less. I think I paid around $80 for the AKG and about $60 each for four of the ATs in a batch.
i hope this is of some use...
stv
# Posted on August 14th 2004 by stv culchie
Re: Fiddle pickups: any advice?
Thanks, Steve, that sounds really interesting.
# Posted on August 14th 2004 by west-coaster
Re: Fiddle pickups: any advice?
Thanks, Nutsmuggler, for that most interesting information about Martin Hayes's pickup. I wonder if it's commercially available - probably not because it would need a luthier's skill and expertise to make such a soundpost (the correct word, btw!) and fit it in the fiddle. Perhaps his fiddle's a testbed for a research project.
Trevor
# Posted on August 15th 2004 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Fiddle pickups: any advice?
I have a Fishman, but it only fits on my lovely old fiddle and I don't want to use it on it, so it stays in its box. I did get into a studio (once) and played micced. The guy behind the glass kept telling me not to hum. I couldn't stop. Lucky I'm just an amateur and humming doesn't matter.
# Posted on August 15th 2004 by Clear Drops
Re: Fiddle pickups: any advice?
Oh hum.
# Posted on August 15th 2004 by Clear Drops
Re: Fiddle pickups: any advice?
i've got a fishman that clips into the notch of the bridge on the treble side. i run it into a passac pre-amp then to the p.a. always works, always sounds good. i put a spot of super glue on it so it doesn't slip out of the notch.
# Posted on August 15th 2004 by Dont
Re: Fiddle pickups: any advice?
the fiddler in our band uses an AKG K419, or something with those dame letters and numbers in a different order. these mics are incredibly flexible and can be used with almost anything
# Posted on August 16th 2004 by UglyBoyJoe
Re: Fiddle pickups: any advice?
I use a mic that clips onto the tailpiece - made by Griff Jones from Accusound (www.accusound.com). The sound is fabulous but can end up with dodgy feedback depending on the placement of your monitors and the line up of your band. But Griff can recommend what system to get if you tell him all these details and he just sends it up to you by post, so no need to leave the house. I used to use the Fishman bridge piezo pickup but fiddle sounded very tinny - even with a pre-amp. I also have a Bridge electric fiddle which I use for big gigs to cut back on the feedback. Not exactly the sound you would get from a acoustic fiddle, but the closest I have found of all electric fiddles and very easy for the sound guy to sort out. Good luck with your purchase.
# Posted on August 16th 2004 by Fionafiddler
Re: Fiddle pickups: any advice?
Apparantly the LR Baggs pick-up is superior to the Fishmann (this is according to about four fiddlers I know who used to have Fishmanns).
The Baggs is a basically a bridge that you fit to your fiddle (get a maker to do it if you're not sure) that contains one or two transducers. A quarter inch jack mounts on to the top of the fiddle and is very convenient to use in most situations.
Sound reproduction (as a rule) from a pick-up is inferior to that of a mike but there are also volume and convenience issues to consider. For the purpose you have described I would recommend the LR Baggs pick-up with a pre-amp or at least a D.I. box.
This set-up will cost you less than two hundred pounds. The Music Station in Inverness will probably have what you need and even if you find the pick-up cheaply on the internet, I suggest that you take it into the shop to try out a couple of pre-amps.
Hope this is of help,
FMF
PS If you want to spoil yourself, I've played a few Starfish fiddles which are made by a guy in Ballahulish, and are great if you have fifteen hundred-od quid to play with!
# Posted on August 16th 2004 by folkmasterflex
Re: Fiddle pickups: any advice?
Martin Hayes uses a Kurman sound post pickup.
It is made in Switzerland I think by Ronnie Arbieter. I have fitted two of these over the past two years and they sound very good.
Kevin Burke also uses one.
Cost about 500EURO.
Good luck
Mike
# Posted on August 16th 2004 by Mikea
Re: Fiddle pickups: any advice?
This is a very common question. I've begun an article on this subject at http://www.diddlywiki.org/index.php/Fiddle_Amplification. It includes basic descriptions of many of the options available, along with suggestions and some vague comparisons. Please feel free to add/correct it as suits your fancy.
# Posted on August 16th 2004 by Georgi
Re: Fiddle pickups: any advice?
The AKG c-419 that UglyBoyJoe mentions is a variation on the c-418 that I mentioned, the gooseneck thing is a bit different.
Jan Martin: I've had humming fiddlers in the studio before, too. There are various technical solutions (if they insist on humming... ).
That's better than the one who must stomp out the tempo. I had to put blankets and pillows around that foot...
Mikea, thanks for the Arbieter info! I always wondered...
stv
# Posted on August 17th 2004 by stv culchie
Re: Fiddle pickups: any advice?
Contact info for the soundpost pick-up maker is here at Kevin Burke's 'tools of the trade' page:
http://pws.prserv.net/kevinburke/html_toolsofthetrade.html#amplification
# Posted on August 18th 2004 by Tish
Re: Fiddle pickups: any advice?
Hm, soundpost pickup, I guess that's worth a try some day. I used a Fishman, it sounded awful. I tried the Baggs, also sounded awful. I tried Barcus Berry, it made the instrument unplayable without amplification - their bridge deadens the sound too much.
Now I use an AudioTechnica mic with a Samson Airline wireless transmitter. I had to dig a chinrest out of the bottom of my junk drawer and put it on the fiddle so that the mic clip had something to attach to, but otherwise it lets me play with complete freedom and there's no beating the sound of a good mic.
Yes, there are feedback issues to worry about though. Also playing outdoors, it needs a good wind baffle. So far I've been able to deal with these issues though.
# Posted on August 20th 2004 by HighlandSun
Re: Fiddle pickups: any advice?
We have two fiddlers in our band. One uses the Fishman and the other uses the Shadow. Both are transducers that push into one of the slots in the bridge. The Fishman generates a stronger signal than the Shadow so the gain needs to be turned up higher on the Shadow. Both connect into a DI box before the desk. Both sound good but note the following!
The Fishman is very sensitive to to the position of the transducer - get it wrong and it sounds really bad. Get it right and it sounds about as good as I've heard. Follow the instructions to fit it on the correct side of the bridge and check the sound. Then rotate the transducer relative to the bridge and try the sound again. Keep doing this until you find the best sound. We found that 45 degrees is a good starting point.
The Shadow has a mellower sound but gives much the same sound however it is installed. If the gain is too high it can introduce hum.
I know I should n't say it but pickups make gigging so much easier! However, in the studio we use mics.
Hope that helps.
# Posted on August 20th 2004 by Rhlloydbgf