If I submit a tune as abc, and the notation & sound files are created, if I then realise I have made mistake with the transription, or perhaps a session member points out a problem, if I then go to amend abc, (quite rightly, only the contributor can amend the raw abc file), the notation and sound files are not subsequently updated. The abc download however, does contain the amendments.
Is there any way that the notation & sound files could be rebuilt to reflect all the changes in the raw abc file, either by the contributor, or as a periodic rebuild for all abc's - Jeremy ??
It may be that everyone else already knew about this, but the tune I noticed this with is Kusnacht - see bars 7, 15, 23 & 31 , but I presume it is same for all tunes amended after submission
I think I've had this happen to me once or twice, and the answer then was that the notation and sound files can't be changed once they've been first generated.
Unless Jeremy can bring in a way of updating those files I think all the tune submitter can do is to check and double-check the ABC code before submitting it and also listen to it being played at half-speed on something like ABCMus20. Half-speed is good for checking because then you'll hear the little mistakes that slip past your ear at normal playing speed.
The commonest error for me is getting the case wrong - "a" instead of "A" for example. Half-speed certainly brings that to my attention.
Another thing that can happen with some text editors when preparing the ABC is that if a lowercase letter occurs at the beginning of a line then the text editor will change it to uppercase, thinking it marks the beginning of a paragraph. There should normally be something in the text editor's options menu for you to over-ride this.
Also watch out for , and ' which control the very low and high notes. They can be easily missed or interchanged.
Again be careful if you're putting in chords. The coding for these is a little more complicated and errors can easily arise. I incline to the view that it is probably better not include chords in the tune as first submitted, but to provide in the comments an ABC version with chords.
That's right. The idea is that you check and double-check a tune *before* submitting it. That's why it's important to always test your ABC notation in some software first. That's also why the last screen of the tune submission process always you to review what you've submitted: don't press "confirm" unless you really do want to confirm that it is correct.
Hmm. As you noticed Eliot, yer man here appears to have difficulty with real life ABC, ie, spelling, so it's no surprise the tunes ABC isn't perfect either.
That's why *I* rarely bother.
On the concertina.net site there is a very useful tool called the tun-o-tron (http://www.concertina.net/tunes_convert.html) that allows printing of sheet music and generation of midi files at the click of a button. You can use it to double check your abc's before submitting. It would be nice if something similar could be added here so that the submitter could recreate the sheet music and midi files as necessary.
On the occasions where I've made an error with the "abc" and there have been one or two , I'll correct same and notify members of the change in the comments section. Normally, I download the ABCs, in any case, and use ABC2Win to convert these to standard notation. I find the end result much neater and more compact than merely printing out the sheet music from this site. It's also much easier to select tunes for "sets" this way.
Obviously it doesn't affect everybody (and perhaps it only affects me.) When I click on postings with zero replies, I just get a blank screen. Also, when I try to submit a new posting, I also get a blank screen (hence my hijacking of this thread ... sorry.)
If you have Internet Explorer, try clicking on the "Go" button if you get a blank screen. This should bring up the page you want or allow you to submit a new discussion. It works for me, anyway.
Thanks John J. Once I figured out the "Go" button is the "refresh" button on my Explorer, it worked fine. You have a bright furute in end-user support.
Thanks for that tip, John J. I was getting tired of looking at a blank screen whenever I wanted to read a new thread. My "go" button says "ir", but that´s because of where I live )
Nonetheless, Jeremy, if the site allows editing of the ABC original, surely the image and sound files should be changed accordingly? Alternatively, perhaps editing of the original could just be disabled, and all edits added in comments? Having inconsistent ABC and image/sound doesn't seem like a great feature to me.
I've sometimes wondered if it would be nice if the website software could automatically detect an ABC file embedded in a tune comment and automagically insert a image of it there, in the same kind of way it does with URLs... you could detect the starting "X:" tag, perhaps.
Then again, I'm probably hoping for too much.
I believe Jeremy generates those files himself, so what one is asking is for Jeremy to go through doing those again due to error on the part of the poster. Jeremy's caught several mistakes of mine when posting ABCs (usually mode stuff), so it's worth the manual check, I'd say, but he hasn't time to check each note. That's generally why he asks people to only submit when they're absolutely sure they've go the ABCs the way they want them...
I imagine that the process is fairly highly automated, and all that would really be necessary would be for edited tunes to be added to the list of "tunes needing updating" for Jeremy to see that they need regeneration. I definitely think that if you can change the ABC, the sheet music/sounds should change too - if this can't happen, then you shouldn't be able to change it!
I imagine that this happens rarely enough that it wouldn't be a great additional burden (especially given that most changes tend to be trivial, such as single-note changes). Perhaps the image generation could be made totally automatic for this kind of change. I doubt it'd be hard, but then again I don't know what kind of setup lives behind the scenes here.
"I definitely think that if you can change the ABC, the sheet music/sounds should change too - if this can't happen, then you shouldn't be able to change it!"
I disagree. If you edit the ABC, then the downloaded ABC is updated. So is the ABC that in your tunebook. In many ways, the sheetmusic and soundfile are the least important versions of the tune.
"I imagine that this happens rarely enough that it wouldn't be a great additional burden (especially given that most changes tend to be trivial, such as single-note changes)"
It is precisely because the changes are so trivial that it isn't worth the effort of updating the sheetmusic and soundfile.
Frankly, I don't have the time to do it. Sorry. That's just the way it is.
Is it really that hard to just make sure that the ABC is (more or less) correct when you submit it in the first place? Surely that wouldn't be a great additional burden.
"Having inconsistent ABC and image/sound doesn't seem like a great feature to me."
Sorry. But I'm afraid you're going to have to live with it.
I agree. The ABC is the important aspect of this facility. As long as this can be updated or altered, you can dowload it and translate it into sheet music or a sound file yourself without too much trouble. Having the sheet music and midi on site is a bonus, albeit a useful one, but we shouldn't need to depend on it.
Phew!
I hadn't expected to stir up so many comments
Firstly, Brian (“briantheflute”), is not on the wrong thread - he has cleverly realised, from the original submission date, that I would have just returned from Sidmouth Festival where he and I have shared many a good session, and a good few beers, prior to his departure to Tasmania a few years ago – so he may well have uncovered the key to my somewhat ironic misspelling of the title to this thread
And if “rog” is Roger from York, of Demon Barber fame, then we too had a good few tunes together this year in “Duke’s” front garden (Cheers Roger how about posting the Boston urban Ceili !)
Back to the thread – I was really only making people aware of the problem, and I agree that changing the abc is the main thing so please don’t remove this facility
I do however feel that I should point out that I would not really consider I had made a mistake, since I had originally been playing the tune as per the original abc submitted – it was only after submitting it that “Jack Gilder” posted a note with a slight change that I re-listened to the original recording and realised he was right. I now play it as per the amended abc, which, although only subtle change, I think is nicer
At this point I decided to amend the abc to reflect this “improvement”, though I still think the original abc is fine. I fail to see how I could find this by checking the abc since it was accurate to the way I originally played the tune.
I certainly don’t agree with “lord of the flies”, in that since he is not brilliant at abc he shouldn’t bother – He who dares wins ?
“Eliot” & “jocklet” should be ignored, since they are preoccupied with spelling and merely cloud the issue with sarcasm
I do think that “lil dog turpy”, john j”, and “rog” make some sensible comments
I would suggest there are many more errors in the tunes than people will admit to, and I have found many myself over the years, but if we can’t get the notation & sound files updated, then I would recommend that the abc is downloaded and use abcmus / abcwin to play / print them, and only use the notation / sound files to get a quick feel of the tune
It appears that it is not easy for Jeremy to incorporate this functionality, so I will say no more - except it is a great site anyway, and I really don’t want to be seen as complaining since anyone that knows me will realise it’s not my way
I've just noticed small discerancy ...
I've just noticed small discerancy ...
If I submit a tune as abc, and the notation & sound files are created, if I then realise I have made mistake with the transription, or perhaps a session member points out a problem, if I then go to amend abc, (quite rightly, only the contributor can amend the raw abc file), the notation and sound files are not subsequently updated. The abc download however, does contain the amendments.
Is there any way that the notation & sound files could be rebuilt to reflect all the changes in the raw abc file, either by the contributor, or as a periodic rebuild for all abc's - Jeremy ??
It may be that everyone else already knew about this, but the tune I noticed this with is Kusnacht - see bars 7, 15, 23 & 31 , but I presume it is same for all tunes amended after submission
# Posted on August 8th 2004 by Enob
Re: I've just noticed small discerancy ...
I think I've had this happen to me once or twice, and the answer then was that the notation and sound files can't be changed once they've been first generated.
Unless Jeremy can bring in a way of updating those files I think all the tune submitter can do is to check and double-check the ABC code before submitting it and also listen to it being played at half-speed on something like ABCMus20. Half-speed is good for checking because then you'll hear the little mistakes that slip past your ear at normal playing speed.
The commonest error for me is getting the case wrong - "a" instead of "A" for example. Half-speed certainly brings that to my attention.
Another thing that can happen with some text editors when preparing the ABC is that if a lowercase letter occurs at the beginning of a line then the text editor will change it to uppercase, thinking it marks the beginning of a paragraph. There should normally be something in the text editor's options menu for you to over-ride this.
Also watch out for , and ' which control the very low and high notes. They can be easily missed or interchanged.
Again be careful if you're putting in chords. The coding for these is a little more complicated and errors can easily arise. I incline to the view that it is probably better not include chords in the tune as first submitted, but to provide in the comments an ABC version with chords.
Trevor
# Posted on August 8th 2004 by lazyhound
Re: I've just noticed small discerancy ...
That's right. The idea is that you check and double-check a tune *before* submitting it. That's why it's important to always test your ABC notation in some software first. That's also why the last screen of the tune submission process always you to review what you've submitted: don't press "confirm" unless you really do want to confirm that it is correct.
# Posted on August 8th 2004 by Jeremy
Discerancy -> discrepancy
Got to check those discussion titles as well.
Typos are not fub.
Eliot
# Posted on August 8th 2004 by Eliot
Re: I've just noticed small discerancy ...
Hmm. As you noticed Eliot, yer man here appears to have difficulty with real life ABC, ie, spelling, so it's no surprise the tunes ABC isn't perfect either.
That's why *I* rarely bother.
:~{
# Posted on August 9th 2004 by Nick Splease
Re: I've just noticed small discerancy ...
On the concertina.net site there is a very useful tool called the tun-o-tron (http://www.concertina.net/tunes_convert.html) that allows printing of sheet music and generation of midi files at the click of a button. You can use it to double check your abc's before submitting. It would be nice if something similar could be added here so that the submitter could recreate the sheet music and midi files as necessary.
# Posted on August 9th 2004 by lildogturpy
Re: I've just noticed small discerancy ...
On the occasions where I've made an error with the "abc" and there have been one or two
, I'll correct same and notify members of the change in the comments section. Normally, I download the ABCs, in any case, and use ABC2Win to convert these to standard notation. I find the end result much neater and more compact than merely printing out the sheet music from this site. It's also much easier to select tunes for "sets" this way.
# Posted on August 9th 2004 by Back for a while
A BUG IN THE WEBSITE???
Obviously it doesn't affect everybody (and perhaps it only affects me.) When I click on postings with zero replies, I just get a blank screen. Also, when I try to submit a new posting, I also get a blank screen (hence my hijacking of this thread ... sorry.)
- Greg
# Posted on August 9th 2004 by grego
What's this got to do with the price of fish?
Actually, I have had similar problems since the site moved to a new server.
See
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display.php/4169
If you have Internet Explorer, try clicking on the "Go" button if you get a blank screen. This should bring up the page you want or allow you to submit a new discussion. It works for me, anyway.
# Posted on August 9th 2004 by Back for a while
Re: I've just noticed small discerancy ...
Thanks John J. Once I figured out the "Go" button is the "refresh" button on my Explorer, it worked fine. You have a bright furute in end-user support.
# Posted on August 9th 2004 by grego
Re: I've just noticed small discerancy ...
future.
# Posted on August 9th 2004 by grego
Re: I've just noticed small discerancy ...
Go? *Go*?! Don't you just hate the dizzy McUserFriendliness of IE...
# Posted on August 9th 2004 by Dow
Re: I've just noticed small discerancy ...
Thanks for that tip, John J. I was getting tired of looking at a blank screen whenever I wanted to read a new thread. My "go" button says "ir", but that´s because of where I live
)
# Posted on August 9th 2004 by murfbox
Re: I've just noticed small discerancy ...
I think grego has a bright future in journalism lol.
# Posted on August 9th 2004 by lildogturpy
Re: I've just noticed small discerancy ...
Thnaks!
# Posted on August 9th 2004 by grego
Re: I've just noticed small discerancy ...
Nonetheless, Jeremy, if the site allows editing of the ABC original, surely the image and sound files should be changed accordingly? Alternatively, perhaps editing of the original could just be disabled, and all edits added in comments? Having inconsistent ABC and image/sound doesn't seem like a great feature to me.
I've sometimes wondered if it would be nice if the website software could automatically detect an ABC file embedded in a tune comment and automagically insert a image of it there, in the same kind of way it does with URLs... you could detect the starting "X:" tag, perhaps.
Then again, I'm probably hoping for too much.
# Posted on August 9th 2004 by rog
Re: I've just noticed small discerancy ...
I believe Jeremy generates those files himself, so what one is asking is for Jeremy to go through doing those again due to error on the part of the poster. Jeremy's caught several mistakes of mine when posting ABCs (usually mode stuff), so it's worth the manual check, I'd say, but he hasn't time to check each note. That's generally why he asks people to only submit when they're absolutely sure they've go the ABCs the way they want them...
# Posted on August 9th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: I've just noticed small discerancy ...
Discrepancy:an illogical or surprising difference or surprising lack of compatibility beetween two or more facts.
# Posted on March 1st 2003 by dafydd
Re: I've just noticed small discerancy ...
I imagine that the process is fairly highly automated, and all that would really be necessary would be for edited tunes to be added to the list of "tunes needing updating" for Jeremy to see that they need regeneration. I definitely think that if you can change the ABC, the sheet music/sounds should change too - if this can't happen, then you shouldn't be able to change it!
I imagine that this happens rarely enough that it wouldn't be a great additional burden (especially given that most changes tend to be trivial, such as single-note changes). Perhaps the image generation could be made totally automatic for this kind of change. I doubt it'd be hard, but then again I don't know what kind of setup lives behind the scenes here.
# Posted on August 9th 2004 by rog
Re: I've just noticed small discerancy ...
"I definitely think that if you can change the ABC, the sheet music/sounds should change too - if this can't happen, then you shouldn't be able to change it!"
I disagree. If you edit the ABC, then the downloaded ABC is updated. So is the ABC that in your tunebook. In many ways, the sheetmusic and soundfile are the least important versions of the tune.
"I imagine that this happens rarely enough that it wouldn't be a great additional burden (especially given that most changes tend to be trivial, such as single-note changes)"
It is precisely because the changes are so trivial that it isn't worth the effort of updating the sheetmusic and soundfile.
Frankly, I don't have the time to do it. Sorry. That's just the way it is.
Is it really that hard to just make sure that the ABC is (more or less) correct when you submit it in the first place? Surely that wouldn't be a great additional burden.
"Having inconsistent ABC and image/sound doesn't seem like a great feature to me."
Sorry. But I'm afraid you're going to have to live with it.
# Posted on August 9th 2004 by Jeremy
Re: I've just noticed small discerancy ...
I agree. The ABC is the important aspect of this facility. As long as this can be updated or altered, you can dowload it and translate it into sheet music or a sound file yourself without too much trouble. Having the sheet music and midi on site is a bonus, albeit a useful one, but we shouldn't need to depend on it.
# Posted on August 9th 2004 by Back for a while
Re: I've just noticed small discerancy ...
Wouldn't be anything to do with the after effects of a good Sidmouth would it?
LOL Brianx
# Posted on August 10th 2004 by briantheflute
Re: I've just noticed small discerancy ...
Are we on the right thread, Brian? Or is this another discerancy?
# Posted on August 10th 2004 by Back for a while
Re: I've just noticed small discerancy ...
lots of things could be due to the after-effects of a good sidmouth, brian... did i meet you there?
# Posted on August 10th 2004 by rog
Re: I've just noticed small discrepancy ...
Phew!
I hadn't expected to stir up so many comments
Firstly, Brian (“briantheflute”), is not on the wrong thread - he has cleverly realised, from the original submission date, that I would have just returned from Sidmouth Festival where he and I have shared many a good session, and a good few beers, prior to his departure to Tasmania a few years ago – so he may well have uncovered the key to my somewhat ironic misspelling of the title to this thread
And if “rog” is Roger from York, of Demon Barber fame, then we too had a good few tunes together this year in “Duke’s” front garden (Cheers Roger how about posting the Boston urban Ceili !)
Back to the thread – I was really only making people aware of the problem, and I agree that changing the abc is the main thing so please don’t remove this facility
I do however feel that I should point out that I would not really consider I had made a mistake, since I had originally been playing the tune as per the original abc submitted – it was only after submitting it that “Jack Gilder” posted a note with a slight change that I re-listened to the original recording and realised he was right. I now play it as per the amended abc, which, although only subtle change, I think is nicer
At this point I decided to amend the abc to reflect this “improvement”, though I still think the original abc is fine. I fail to see how I could find this by checking the abc since it was accurate to the way I originally played the tune.
I certainly don’t agree with “lord of the flies”, in that since he is not brilliant at abc he shouldn’t bother – He who dares wins ?
“Eliot” & “jocklet” should be ignored, since they are preoccupied with spelling and merely cloud the issue with sarcasm
I do think that “lil dog turpy”, john j”, and “rog” make some sensible comments
I would suggest there are many more errors in the tunes than people will admit to, and I have found many myself over the years, but if we can’t get the notation & sound files updated, then I would recommend that the abc is downloaded and use abcmus / abcwin to play / print them, and only use the notation / sound files to get a quick feel of the tune
It appears that it is not easy for Jeremy to incorporate this functionality, so I will say no more - except it is a great site anyway, and I really don’t want to be seen as complaining since anyone that knows me will realise it’s not my way
# Posted on August 21st 2004 by Enob
Re: I've just noticed small discerancy ...
It's still spelt "discrepancy"
# Posted on March 1st 2003 by dafydd