I'm Italian, my main instrument is the recorder, and I usually play Italian/French folk music. I've also started playing Irish stuff (love it!), and I'm trying to become an acceptable whistler; however, people I play for seem to like jigs and reels on the recorder anyway. What do you Irish people think about it? Would you cringe listening to a jig played on the recorder instead of the whistle? Shoud I drop the recorder completely for Irish music?
Of course you should not drop the recorder, it sounds great, and has the extra volume you need in sessions.
What defines the difference between a recorder and a whistle? I have a Ralph Sweet whistle which has a "recorder type" head piece, and I also have encountered (but do not possess) a whistle with a thumb hole and seven finger holes - like a recorder.
The recorder is often reviled because its the thing little girls use to play Twinkle Twinkle Little Star very badly at the age of 7. But in fact there is no more difference between a recorder and a whistle than between different styles of melodeons, or concertinas, or even between a six hole flute and a keyed flute.
Personally, I'm not really crazy about the sound of the recorder at sessions. (I played the recorder, both soprano and alto, and still pick 'em up every now and again for the crack. They have a woody, chuffy sound that I'm not wild about with Irish music, although I've heard them used to nice effect upon the occasion.) But it's a personal preference, and I don't really care much if someone plays it. They're not really loud enough to annoy that much. Tuba now, tuba would be too much.
Every one seems to play these expensive whistles these days that sound more like treble recorders than whistles anyway. I think it's a bad thing, in a not-lifethreateningly-important way, as it's a move away from Irish music as played on distinctively Irish-sounding instruments, to a more homogenous metropolitan music sound. But who am I to stand in the way of progress (he intones in best Marvin The Paranoid Android depressed voice)...
Hi Goccia and welcome.
First most of the people that submit to this forum aren’t Irish, though all of them I think play some of what has become known as Irish Traditional dance music.
The trick when using the Recorder in "ITM" is to play much more legato than in classical music using the various ornamentation patterns to achieve rhythmic drive and dynamics.
You might want to try using a renaissance type instrument, or one of the more gutsy plastic Recorders such as the Aulos 205A which I use.
Good luck
PP
If you want to be faithful to a trad irish sound when playing irish music in an allegedly trad irish session, just use a whistle, preferably a cheap one.
If you don't care about sounding trad use whatever you want, preferably somewhere well out of my hearing.
Adding to the whole whistle idea, if you like a recorder sound but feel wierd playing a recorder in a session, then go with a Susato. Although some probably cringe just as much at a Susato in a session as with a recorder in a session. If played by the right person though, I think Susatos can sound nice, but without the tinny sound of whistles that some people seem to dislike. A nice compromise perhaps?
Hi Goccia, I play the whistle and recorder, although admittedly the recorder was more a primary school instrument! I can definately see the use of the recorder in French music (sorry, I play a bit of French on my violin but don't know about Italian- I assume it's similar) with all the different and exciting keys. Don't let people put you off playing the recorder- it sounds great and if you're really good then keep playing- after all, all us whistle players get stuck when anyone plays newly written tunes because they're all in keys like Bb minor etc. Take both and play a mixture, it'll be more interesting for you and your audience. But please don't drop the recorder completely, I'm sure you sound great!
I agree completely with cthuilleannpiper. I would really recomend playing whistle for Irish trad, and recorder for baroque or renaissance music (or whatever else it's traditionally played for).
Thank you all, lads! Your opinions are very important to me.
I'll add some details now. I'm the proud owner of three cheap Clarke whistles: an Original, which I tweaked and now sounds great, a Sweetone, and a Meg. I just love their slightly breathy sound. I also own a Susato, which IMHO sounds weird; I use it instead of the recorder when I play in the open.
I'll definitely force myself only to use the whistle when I play Irish/Scottish music; I have to work a lot on ornamentation, but at least my rhythm and melody seem to be ok. And yes, I'll play the recorder only for Renaissance, Baroque and Italian/French folk.
Thank you!
P.S - yes, "goccia" sounds almost like "gotcha"... that's another story. =
I would think twice before you consider yourself to have the rhythm down. I've been told that's one of the hardest things about the music, and requires lots of listening.
BTW -- don't force yourself to use the whistle if you don't want to!
I'd go for the whistle.
Moving to the whistle is also a way to learn anew instrument and a new style. The world is beautiful of its variety. Where are you from by the way? Milano?
Bye,
Davide
I resemble that! As a banjo player, I think Irish traditional music is big enough, and vigorous enough, to absorb many different instrumental sounds in its production. The banjo for one. Love it or not, it is now part of the huge breadth of sounds in which ITM is enjoyed.
Listen to the stereotyped sound of a competition ceili band, then listen to some of the working bands playing for set dancing.
Then visit a session in Clare, Kerry, Sligo, Donegal.
Then pick up some CDs of great ITM players of the last century: fiddle, concertina, whistle, pipes.
All sorts of sounds. The saxophone is a real surprise when you first hear it behind a band, yet many Irish bands have used it successfully. The great Jazz saxophonist Tony Howley, also a great traditional flute player and whistler, has just recorded a CD with the Shaskeen banjo player Tom Cussen.
You might not find the sound "your preference" but these people are keeping the music alive by extending its boundaries.
Sometimes I wonder if those who wish to narrow in the sound to only what they like might find themselves supporting its death.
She played in a brass ensemble, and I fell for her around the same time I had to choose a 2nd instrument for my varsity course. Haven't played a note on a brass instrument since the day we split. Come to think of it, I first started playing flute years earlier for similar reasons. Damn, why couldn't I have fallen in love with a woman who played the stock market instead?
But I play whistle and flute with the tips of my fingers. Put that in your pipe and drone it.
87P
Coo Coo
The wings flutter
The feathers settle
All the pigeons are stuffed back in their holes
What a tidy World.
"In the west end of Derby
Lives a man
He says I can't Fly
But me Pigeons can
And when I set them free
It's just like a part of me
Is lifted up on shining wings"
Irish music on the recorder?
Irish music on the recorder?
Hello there,
I'm Italian, my main instrument is the recorder, and I usually play Italian/French folk music. I've also started playing Irish stuff (love it!), and I'm trying to become an acceptable whistler; however, people I play for seem to like jigs and reels on the recorder anyway. What do you Irish people think about it? Would you cringe listening to a jig played on the recorder instead of the whistle? Shoud I drop the recorder completely for Irish music?
# Posted on August 5th 2004 by Guidus
Re: Irish music on the recorder?
Joyce, where are you?
# Posted on August 5th 2004 by Johannes J
Re: Irish music on the recorder?
Goccia, your name sounds suspiciously like Gotcha!
# Posted on August 5th 2004 by Conán McDonnell
Re: Irish music on the recorder?
Of course you should not drop the recorder, it sounds great, and has the extra volume you need in sessions.
What defines the difference between a recorder and a whistle? I have a Ralph Sweet whistle which has a "recorder type" head piece, and I also have encountered (but do not possess) a whistle with a thumb hole and seven finger holes - like a recorder.
The recorder is often reviled because its the thing little girls use to play Twinkle Twinkle Little Star very badly at the age of 7. But in fact there is no more difference between a recorder and a whistle than between different styles of melodeons, or concertinas, or even between a six hole flute and a keyed flute.
Dave
# Posted on August 5th 2004 by showaddydadito
Re: Irish music on the recorder?
James Joyce? Joyce Grenfell?
# Posted on March 1st 2003 by dafydd
Re: Irish music on the recorder?
Hobson's Joyce
# Posted on August 5th 2004 by Conán McDonnell
Re: Irish music on the recorder?
Sophie's Joyce?
# Posted on August 5th 2004 by Q
Re: Irish music on the recorder?
The Joyce Wife?
# Posted on August 5th 2004 by Dow
Re: Irish music on the recorder?
Hi John! Sorry, but I'm going to remain silent on this one. Too many people I know read this website
Joyce
# Posted on August 5th 2004 by JMH
Re: Irish music on the recorder?
Ah, the people's Joyce!
# Posted on August 5th 2004 by Q
Re: Irish music on the recorder?
By the way, the last time this topic came up, we successfully managed to convert a recorder player into a whistler
( http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display.php/3739/comments#comment75854 )
Remember kids, recorder-playing isn't a lifestyle - it's a Joyce!
Coat, please!
# Posted on August 5th 2004 by Q
Re: Irish music on the recorder?
Personally, I'm not really crazy about the sound of the recorder at sessions. (I played the recorder, both soprano and alto, and still pick 'em up every now and again for the crack. They have a woody, chuffy sound that I'm not wild about with Irish music, although I've heard them used to nice effect upon the occasion.) But it's a personal preference, and I don't really care much if someone plays it. They're not really loud enough to annoy that much. Tuba now, tuba would be too much.
# Posted on August 5th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Irish music on the recorder?
Hmmm... Euphonium. I wonder.
# Posted on August 5th 2004 by Q
Re: Irish music on the recorder?
LOL -- wonder on, wonder boy.
# Posted on August 5th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Irish music on the recorder?
Every one seems to play these expensive whistles these days that sound more like treble recorders than whistles anyway. I think it's a bad thing, in a not-lifethreateningly-important way, as it's a move away from Irish music as played on distinctively Irish-sounding instruments, to a more homogenous metropolitan music sound. But who am I to stand in the way of progress (he intones in best Marvin The Paranoid Android depressed voice)...
# Posted on August 5th 2004 by Ottery
Re: Irish music on the recorder?
I've said it before, but here it comes again. We used to have a tuba player join in our session now and again.
Then he went away. Tim are you out there?
# Posted on August 5th 2004 by showaddydadito
Re: Irish music on the recorder?
I still think that's hilarious, Dave. *snort* But that's probably because I wasn't there for it.
# Posted on August 5th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Irish music on the recorder?
Hi Goccia and welcome.
First most of the people that submit to this forum aren’t Irish, though all of them I think play some of what has become known as Irish Traditional dance music.
The trick when using the Recorder in "ITM" is to play much more legato than in classical music using the various ornamentation patterns to achieve rhythmic drive and dynamics.
You might want to try using a renaissance type instrument, or one of the more gutsy plastic Recorders such as the Aulos 205A which I use.
Good luck
PP
# Posted on August 5th 2004 by Pied Piper
Re: Irish music on the recorder?
Zina - we're talking DANCING tuba player here.
# Posted on August 5th 2004 by showaddydadito
Re: Irish music on the recorder?
If you want to be faithful to a trad irish sound when playing irish music in an allegedly trad irish session, just use a whistle, preferably a cheap one.
If you don't care about sounding trad use whatever you want, preferably somewhere well out of my hearing.
# Posted on August 5th 2004 by Hanley
Re: Irish music on the recorder?
Oh mio Dio! Cos'e quell'orribile rumore?
# Posted on August 5th 2004 by day-glo pirate
Re: Irish music on the recorder?
Adding to the whole whistle idea, if you like a recorder sound but feel wierd playing a recorder in a session, then go with a Susato. Although some probably cringe just as much at a Susato in a session as with a recorder in a session. If played by the right person though, I think Susatos can sound nice, but without the tinny sound of whistles that some people seem to dislike. A nice compromise perhaps?
# Posted on August 5th 2004 by Jason G
Re: Irish music on the recorder?
I'm weighing in with a resounding vote for leaving the recorder at home! The whistle is a much nicer instrument for Irish trad music.
# Posted on August 5th 2004 by Jode
Re: Irish music on the recorder?
You've answered your own question, goccia. - "become an acceptable whistler". Best of luck!
# Posted on August 5th 2004 by Kenny
Re: Irish music on the recorder?
Hi Goccia, I play the whistle and recorder, although admittedly the recorder was more a primary school instrument! I can definately see the use of the recorder in French music (sorry, I play a bit of French on my violin but don't know about Italian- I assume it's similar) with all the different and exciting keys. Don't let people put you off playing the recorder- it sounds great and if you're really good then keep playing- after all, all us whistle players get stuck when anyone plays newly written tunes because they're all in keys like Bb minor etc. Take both and play a mixture, it'll be more interesting for you and your audience. But please don't drop the recorder completely, I'm sure you sound great!
# Posted on August 5th 2004 by RoisinB
Re: Irish music on the recorder?
I agree completely with cthuilleannpiper. I would really recomend playing whistle for Irish trad, and recorder for baroque or renaissance music (or whatever else it's traditionally played for).
# Posted on August 5th 2004 by Max Becher
Re: Irish music on the recorder?
Thank you all, lads! Your opinions are very important to me.
I'll add some details now. I'm the proud owner of three cheap Clarke whistles: an Original, which I tweaked and now sounds great, a Sweetone, and a Meg. I just love their slightly breathy sound. I also own a Susato, which IMHO sounds weird; I use it instead of the recorder when I play in the open.
I'll definitely force myself only to use the whistle when I play Irish/Scottish music; I have to work a lot on ornamentation, but at least my rhythm and melody seem to be ok. And yes, I'll play the recorder only for Renaissance, Baroque and Italian/French folk.
Thank you!
P.S - yes, "goccia" sounds almost like "gotcha"... that's another story. =
# Posted on August 6th 2004 by Guidus
Re: Irish music on the recorder?
I would think twice before you consider yourself to have the rhythm down. I've been told that's one of the hardest things about the music, and requires lots of listening.
BTW -- don't force yourself to use the whistle if you don't want to!
# Posted on August 6th 2004 by Max Becher
Re: Irish music on the recorder?
I'd go for the whistle.
Moving to the whistle is also a way to learn anew instrument and a new style. The world is beautiful of its variety. Where are you from by the way? Milano?
Bye,
Davide
# Posted on August 6th 2004 by nutsmuggler
Re: Irish music on the recorder?
I resemble that! As a banjo player, I think Irish traditional music is big enough, and vigorous enough, to absorb many different instrumental sounds in its production. The banjo for one. Love it or not, it is now part of the huge breadth of sounds in which ITM is enjoyed.
Listen to the stereotyped sound of a competition ceili band, then listen to some of the working bands playing for set dancing.
Then visit a session in Clare, Kerry, Sligo, Donegal.
Then pick up some CDs of great ITM players of the last century: fiddle, concertina, whistle, pipes.
All sorts of sounds. The saxophone is a real surprise when you first hear it behind a band, yet many Irish bands have used it successfully. The great Jazz saxophonist Tony Howley, also a great traditional flute player and whistler, has just recorded a CD with the Shaskeen banjo player Tom Cussen.
You might not find the sound "your preference" but these people are keeping the music alive by extending its boundaries.
Sometimes I wonder if those who wish to narrow in the sound to only what they like might find themselves supporting its death.
# Posted on August 8th 2004 by philgregg
Re: Irish music on the recorder?
Euphonium & Trombone. But I did it for love!
She played in a brass ensemble, and I fell for her around the same time I had to choose a 2nd instrument for my varsity course. Haven't played a note on a brass instrument since the day we split. Come to think of it, I first started playing flute years earlier for similar reasons. Damn, why couldn't I have fallen in love with a woman who played the stock market instead?
But I play whistle and flute with the tips of my fingers. Put that in your pipe and drone it.
87P
# Posted on August 8th 2004 by Q
Re: Irish music on the recorder?
Oops, I thought you said sharing, not shaving. Um, judging from the Lark pictures, my money's on Jack
)))
# Posted on August 8th 2004 by Q
Re: Irish music on the recorder?
Coo Coo
The wings flutter
The feathers settle
All the pigeons are stuffed back in their holes
What a tidy World.
"In the west end of Derby
Lives a man
He says I can't Fly
But me Pigeons can
And when I set them free
It's just like a part of me
Is lifted up on shining wings"
PP
# Posted on August 9th 2004 by Pied Piper