The Session >> Discussions >> How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
Comments
How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
::Has had sudden urge of curiosity::
So?
I know about 66 or 67 right now, not sure if I completely learned... Glens of Akrow, so yeah. I usually learn tunes, probably once in a while, unless I stumble upon a treasure of catchy tunes. And I usually do both, notes especially when I struggle trying to hear a reel on a CD ~_~;
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
I've no idea how many tunes I know. I don't have the patience (or the inclination) to work it out. A conservative estimate would be 150.
How often do I learn tunes - only once each!Hahahahahahaha!
Seriously - it's very variable, sometimes two or three together in an evening, sometimes no serious effort at anything new for a threeweek. Mostly learned by ear, though I can (slowly) work out a tune from the dots until it is lodged in the space between my brain and my skull, from whence it can be snatched instantaneously, (and botched into unrecognisability at the drop of a hat).
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
If you're still counting them then, maybe, you don't know enough. Mind you, there's the argument that it's better just to play a few really well than many badly.
I use both methods and also a combination of both methods. It just depends. Some I learn extremely quickly but others are sometimes on "the burner" for weeks or months before they get their first outing.
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
I would be hard pressed to play all the tunes I ever played well. Some are just not played by others that I play with, so they have been "Archived" some voluntarily some not. My "active list" is a couple dozen of each type and my favorite tune is the one I am currently learning. I have taken as long as 6 months to learn a tune well enough, or have it on the first go round. If I can accompany but can't play lead, do I really know the tune?WB
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
John J: Yep - I agree, and I've subscribed to that argument in the past - and still do to some extent. I was initially taught to only learn a few tunes and focus on all the other aspects of flute - tone, embouchure, breath control, rhythm, etc...
Upside of that is I feel good about those aspects of my playing now. Downside is that I'm not able to participate in many session tunes because I don't know many. My current philosophy is "balance" between improving technique, learning tunes, retaining tunes that I already have, etc... simple reality for me is - unless you're a pro, there aren't enough hours in a day to do it all... so I just try to balance as best I can...
As such, my tune count (~100) is probably relatively low for how long I've been playing (~6 yrs). How often do I learn tunes? I don't schedule it - but I usually binge-learn in the several weeks after a workshop. I prefer to learn by ear, but often use sheet music. When I learn from dots, I can usually memorize a tune in about an hour, but then lose it within the next hour. When I learn by ear, it can usually mean several hours or days with the Pause and Rewind buttons, but retention is nearly infinite. Funny how that works.
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
I know at least 30 from sheet music--before I started to learn by ear. I haven't counted recently but I've learned around 150+ by ear. So total I'd say probably just short of 200.
However, the amount that I'd be willing to play in front of someone-say Matt Molloy-is drastically fewer, maybe 10-20. I heartily agree that it is much better to know a few tunes *really* well than it is to know 1000 sloppily-played ones.
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
Well, my tunebook says that I know about 150 tunes, but my instinct tells me that I know a couple more. Most of the tunes I can play directly from the heart, but there's lots of tunes that I can play along with, but can't strat myself.
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
I know around 40 or so all read off sheet music. I started learning them within the past year. add this to all the tunes I know on guitar when I was playing in a rock band ~ hundreds, learned by both ear and notes. I have not begun to learn by ear yet but shall soon with the sessions I attend. I agree with bkessler, i can learn a tune in about an hour and then forget it the next. In the past, learning other tunes by ear, it seems like it willnever go away.
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
Know by heart? Damfino. Probably somewhere between 30 and 50, although when I get stage fright the number becomes about 10% of that.
How often do I learn them? As often as practice time and a dicky memory will permit.
Ear or notes? Preferably ear, with the dots as a refresher during the critical I've-almost-got-it stage. Some pieces I have to go for dots alone because I have no source right now for ear, or I go relearn the tune from dots to get the unornamented version of the melody so I can ornament it my own way. Ear stays with me better,though.
Saraa
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
Only about 40 or so. I used to use the dots, but I now only use them if it is absolutely impossible for me to find a recording anywhere, like if it's something obscure in O'Neill's. I really have to work hard to memeorize ones I learn from the dots.
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
Hmm, I like the idea.. theory.. something... Of knowing some tunes well, rather than a good amount played horribly. As a matter of fact, I kind of apply to both, kind of ish, a majority of the tunes I used to play alot and loved, and they kind of just fell back there somewhere, I play them if I ever remember that I know them, haha. But one thing is for sure, I
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
It's playing them without faltering is the thing. When I think I know a tune right through I've started to jot down the title and just the first bar of each section in a notebook - otherwise my mind goes blank. I won't guess how many I can play without hesitation or deviation - nothing to boast about!
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
How many do I know? - Not nearly enough
How often? - Not nearly enough - but my resolution for this year was to try and add a tune a week. I've not done too badly but it's an addiction - the more I learn, the more I want!! Tunes learnt by ear sink in better than from dots. The problem is that I play through a book of tunes and want to learn so many of them. I must admit to having a bar in a notebook as well - sometimes my mind just goes blank in a session!!
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
How do I learn? Any method at all - By asking the name and looking it up or by hearing them (and writing them down if possible, so I dont forget it) - by listening to cds and dotting them down or by reading tune books and re-arranging sets.
How many do I know? Who knows?
How many can you play (have you played in the past) is a different question to how many do you know, as some people can play tunes they have heard but never played before.
Last Tuesdays sesh was quiet so wo compatriots, Mel & Cameron (name dropping) tried a "lets see how many tunes we can play that Geoff doesn't know" evening.
Naturally there were quite a few I hadn't heard before but I surprised myself how much I could play of tunes I had heard and kept in the back of my mind but had never played them before.
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
Yeah, that happened to me with a slide once. I had heard it a million times (I don't know where), but when it came up at a session, I was able to play it, even though I hadn't before.
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
Been playing fife for 29 years (with more intermittent bouts on the whistle), and (like others) go through spurts of feverish activity of learning new stuff. Haven't counted, but well into the hundreds. Tunes I know well? Probably around 100. Mostly learned by ear. Know lots to hear them, with no clue as to their names.
Copying out what I hear can help to fix a tune in my brain, but I'm not a sophisticated enough musician to know a whole lot about what I'm doing. Someone with more training and skill can usually sort out my scratchings into something musically readable to the rest of the world (or at least to our group).
I find that by playing tapes, record albums, or MIDI files over and over, tunes that my fingers don't know yet will get pretty well burned into my brain; when the imprint has been made indelible on the brain, the fingers then usually know what to do.
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
Max - that happens when you don't just know tunes, but know your instrument - so you can play straight from your head to the instrument, rather than having to learn a sequence of finger movements. I can do it readily on the whistle, but not so well on the mandolin or banjolin.
Another thing that happens to me now and then is I find myself spontaneously playing (solo - not necessarily in a session) a tune I never played before, that I have heard sometime in the past - don't know where or when, and then having to ask my compatriots if any of them know what it is or where I might have got it from. This happened to me with The Poll Halfpenny one time in a session. It's a very strange feeling.
Time for tea now - goodnight all - and flights of angels sing thee to thy rest.
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
O_o; I never finished my thingy... Well, errr, umm, I'm revived!
::tries to finish::
The Ballydesmond Polka set and errr, I said something else... How did that not post?! Oh well!!!
::Flies away to friend's house followed by Jimmy D's::
Btw, Max, what was the slide you hear a million times but played it when ya heard it at a session like woah? When I think slide, I hear "O'Keefe's Slide" Hope I spelled that right..
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
thousands I think -learn about 5 a week on an average week...if I'm feeling inclined. maybe less if I'm feeling bored or whatever. DOW!!Do I know thousands??maybe just hundreds - cant tell when I'm Drunk!
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
I think I know a few thousand by now. I've finally reached that point when I can go to a session and play a tune I never remembered knowing, it just plays itself. I'm also finally learning to read music; like Beebs I've realised it's a hindrance not being able to do so, to me anyhow. I learn all my tunes by ear, and will probably continue to do so if I can, even when I reach some sort of proficiency at sight reading.
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
Yeah, you really do need to know a few thousand tunes to play in good sessions. It sounds daunting to us beginners but someday we'll get there. I have sat down and painfully learned somewhere around 300+ tunes by ear since I started playing 3+ years ago. But like someone important said to me recently at the Catskills, it's your own personal journey of the Music that really matters, not some end result.....I'm trying not to worry about quantity. I do learn about 2 to 3 tunes a week since that's all I can handle, but I do it when I feel like it. No schedules or anything like that. I devote most of my time to playing the Music, so it will all come together eventually....I hope
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
Hmmm, well, there are just over 3000 tunes on this database. I'd say the common session tunes were all posted ages ago. It's getting rarer now that I hear a tune at a session that hasn't been posted here. There are also a lot of tunes on this database that don't get played in Irish sessions. There's nothing wrong with that of course, but with that in mind, I'd say that the number of tunes on the database that are going to stand you in good stead for an Irish session is a *lot* less than 3000. I think you could get away with a few hundred, like 300+ for 3 years playing is great Joyce - go grrrl! and if you can play somewhere between 1000-2000 tunes then you'd have no problem coping in any session. Knowing "thousands" would be great, but not a necessary requirement.
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
I prefer to learn by ear and don't have too much trouble doing it, but most of my initial learning is from dots simply because the process is more "interruption-proof".
I can play through a tune outline from dots several times over in the same time it takes to set up the PC or tape player, listen to a phrase twice and then get hit with the inevitable once the fiddle is heard and it is deemed that I am "Filling In Time And Clearly Have Nothing Important To Do"
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
Oops I miscalculated. If you go by tune# then you get about 3300 on the database, but if you do a big tune search it says there are about 6600. My wee brain doesn't understand that! So in that case I suppose a few thousand tunes would be useful. I don't know thousands yet. I've met some people who've been playing 20 or 30 years and who know thousands, but people like that are rare in Australia!
I still reckon you can get through a session with a few hundred. 100 tunes a year, that's 10 years to learn 1000 tunes. Seems about right to me... That's like an average of what? 2 tunes a week? I reckon I'm learning more than 2 a week at the moment - maybe like 3 or 4 - so that means that at this rate I can have learnt 2000 tunes in the next 10 years! (Yeah right!) How come I never know any of the tunes anyone else is playing, and they don't know any of mine?... Bloody annoying that. Beebs would say it's cuz I have bad taste. Whatever. Ah well, I'm gonna keep plodding on anyway
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
I've no idea how many I've learned or how many I still remember, at this point. All I know is that I've never learned enough of them, or didn't learn the one that I should have learned, or I've learned a bunch of tunes that people I'm playing with at THIS or THAT session don't know, and I need to learn more no matter how many I've already learned, so now I don't worry about it.
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
he would, for example, return to me in the following set my own tunes, not knowing he had done so.........he(Illanpipes) and a bouzouki player named pat rocked through their sets in such a way that it was difficult to discern what tune when...
One, The Moment......
demanding, insisting. I was glad I took the bait and presented my own insistence on the banjo with sliding fiddle backup, and felt good when the bouzouki joined in........
playing in strange and foreign environments is so good -scary and delicious, and I feel sorry for peple who are uptight and protective, geniuses and dunces alike.
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
It's not how many you know that will make you a good player, but how many you've delliberatly forgoten. I'll say it again:
"There are too many tunes"
"There are too many tunes"
"There are too many tunes"
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
Veronica, I'd like a pint of whatever you're having! Sounds fun. heard you had a nice trip around the country recently. Did you enjoy your sessions?
On the subject of learning by ear, I'm sure at least some of you have listened to a CD so many times that you practically know how to play all the the tunes. In traditional music there are so many common riffs, for want of a better word, that sometimes it's simply a case of mentally selecting them from different tunes and putting them together.
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
Veronica reminds me of Nanny Ogg from the Discworld novels, if only because of her indefatigable good humour, and possibly also the home-brewing
How many tunes do I know? Not nearly enough, sad to say. In a given session, I can still only play about 20% of the tunes played. Which is shocking, as I really should know the entire 'repertoire', cos it doesn't take me too long to learn tunes.
It's just that during my practice time I keep getting distracted by funky tunes that aren't allowed at proper sessions. I blame Flook. It's all Brian and Sarah's fault!
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
hi conan, Q, and all, thx for asking! Pete and I went from toronto canada through the northern states to victoria canada. out of the eighteen days it took to get across, we had sessions 13 days. Not bad! some were house sessions, some were pub sessions. three of the connections came through this website directly. One was Naperville, Illinois an "every other monday that fit our schedule. I have commented on in the "sessions" section of this session.org website (sounds like the pheasant plucking song huh?)Naperville is just outside Chicago and so we backtracked to make the famous Chief Oneil session on the next day in chicago. I had hoped to meet Tusong, but he wasn't there, however Brendan mckiney (i think that was his name, a illanpipes player, also owner of the pub) and an accypanist bouzouk player named Pat, with a healthy accent..they played what I was trying to describe above...I am quite certain they had little idea what tune they were playing at any one moment because as I explained, at several points in the evening Mckiney played some of my tunes back to me,ones I had just finished playing, but his presentation of them was altered. I asked him about it afterward, about whether he was throwing my tunes back in a gesture of grace or acknowledgement and he explained no, he just plays off the top of his head, just flies at the music so to speak. It makes for good music but can be somewhat dominating, I would suggest he is a solo player. His accypanist Pat was marvelously tight. It was a great experience, only six of us altogether, but not great Craic. The craic (craiccraic craic -new word for me-) the real goodest funnest for us was in the Gays Mills area of Wisconsin (I have posted some leads in the "sessions" section), where we played for dances etc., and the wonderful adventures, music and hospitality we received from Will Harmon's cronies in Helena Montana. Now, they were a good bunch! We had a blast....nice part of the world that Helena Montana!
well, anyway thx for listening about our trip!
oh yeah..we didnt go on any interstates the whole 6,000k (interstate means freeway, uh,autobahn I think you call it in Europe...)
we camped 6 nights, stayed with people 7 nights and stayed in little motels 4 nights,mostly around the Chicago area..
we had tons of brilliant adventures.....oh gawd does it half to be over already? boo hoo
oh, finally, the reason I'm discussing my trip on this "how many tunes do you know" thread is because of its relavancy relevancy to the musical style we experienced at Chief Oneils..
oh, and one more thing.we make a delicious beer every month or so, and readers usually can tell when we bottle.. so come on over and have a pint this week, K?
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
Harkening back to what Conan's saying above, maybe it doesn't matter how many tunes you know, but whether you've done your listening and can pick up (as opposed to "learn") tunes fairly quickly.
I know a good few tunes, but never enough; on the other hand, I've had people say things like "you must know a zillion tunes!". Which isn't really true, because I'm just faking along to stuff I've heard on recordings a thousand times, and somebody else is actually carrying the tune. Hopefully I'm faking well enough to support the person who's carrying the tune rather than being a distraction, and hopefully somewhere along the way I'll really learn the tune. How else are you going to get to playing 3000+ tunes and all the myriad variations?
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
vboyd, I think that one might safely say that Brendan McKinney is a very good player, whether playing solo or at a session. It's spelled "uilleann" or *uillean", by the way. It's also quite safe to say that they knew precisely what tunes they were playing.
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
uh uh zina.. mm mm no he didnt know what tune he was playing. tha's my point about tunes melting together into an energetic mush, given the artist who can accomplish this. Dance music is so dependant on the cohesion of the backup through, via, an artist.. Do you get what I am trying to say? A good hard leader predisposes any other melodic players, and demands nothing more than excellent accompaniment.ITs about rhythm. A really good lead can drag half a dozen rhythm players behind him. Frankie Gavin last month (er year) at concert dragged four backup players along and I think it was a great concert on Saltspring Island. There is no mistaking who was leading that group........he hauled a bouzouk an a tenor an a bohron and what the hell else i cant rememeber.
there is a player here who I admire for the same momentum and energy, but,, uh uh he didnt know "where" he was.. no no .. he was in another stratosphere and this is what made his playing solo rather than group. He was completely unaware that he was playing Music in the Glen or whatever else bedammed tune I'd introduced ten minutes before........
so anyway, brendan mckiney was on his own train, steam locomotive to his own place...
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
vboyd, what I am telling you is that perhaps you shouldn't "guarantee" what Brendan McKinney knows and doesn't know.
He's an excellent player who plays with other excellent players and who provides a place for those excellent players to play together. I "guarantee" you that he knew what tunes he was playing whether he knew the titles of them or not. He was being very, very nice to you, despite his reputation for plain-speaking, and perhaps you should leave it at that.
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
How many? Whatever number Conán says he knows, I claim about half that, cos he's sucha session hoor
How often? Varies, depending on which sessions I'm going to.
Ear or Notes? I learned quite a few tunes from the dots initially, but learning by ear became easier and easier the more I learned. I guess these days I either absorb them from hearing them, or sometimes ask people to play them for me. However, my system just seems to reject some tunes, we're just not compatible e.g. Jig of Slurs. But if I hear a tune I find too difficult to learn I always ask its name so I can grouch about playing it in a set if someone suggests it
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
vboyd, I'm not quite certain what you are saying about Brendan but I do have a few comments to make on the subject of Brendan and Cheif's.
Having been at the different sessions at Cheif's a number of times, I think I can say definitively that Brendan knew what he was playing. Very possible he didn't know the name of the tune (hey, I'm finally getting to where there are enough tunes in my head that I sometimes forget the names, yay!), but there's no doubt in my mind that he 'knew' the tune.
I've never seen Brendan 'drag' backup players along, it is more like they are playing together as a unit. Which seems nicer to me than 'dragging' . THe times that I've gone, there have been multiple melody players and they have most often all been in sync, no matter who started the set. Because the players are usually all of such a high caliber, no one player stands out (except when they start a set or when they play one that no one else knows). Instead, what you hear is the tune/music itself. Which I rather like at a session. This isn't just a Chief's thing, sessions that I've been to with a clump of excellent players have been that way.
WRT to him playing the same thing you did. Might it be possible that your setting of the tunes was different enough from his that he thought they were different tunes. It could be that hearing your version popped his into his head. Considering how close some 'different' tunes can be, it wouldn't surprise me. In fact, maybe he *was* playing a different tune and you didn't realize it. *grin*
In any case, Brendan is a fine player and he runs a fine high-level session. My suggestion would be to wait until you are a player of his caliber and a leader of a session where the top players play before critizing him.
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
Hi Veronica. It's possible--likely even--that Brendan was playing a tune back to you so you could hear his version of it. Years ago, Liz Carroll did that for me once, with the Absent-minded Old Woman, and I learned a lot by listening to her phrasing and timing, which brought the tune to life (at least compared to my rather pedestrian attempt to play it).
My experience of the better session players is that they *always* know what tune they're playing, whether they can tell you the name or not, and whether or not the tune is firmly in their repertoire. Even if it's some obscure tune they've only nibbled at in the past. When they really don't know the tune, they stop playing and just listen so they can get the tune in their head (a prerequisite to trying to play it).
And when a lead player has to 'drag' the backers along, it's no fun for anyone. If the backers can't keep up, they should drop out, or at least play so quietly that it won't detract from the actual music.
Our Helena session is pretty flexible about this sort of stuff because we have such a small pool of players and a wide range of abilities and experience (and we like to encourage people, but we also expect them to listen, learn, and improve). But many hard core sessions, though initially tolerant, can be less forgiving. Players of Brendan McKinney's caliber have put in the time and effort to get where they are. The rest of us would do well to sit on our hands a bit and listen to what they can do with the music.
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
ok . thx for input.. i didnt want to suggest that i was critisizing his playing.You are righht though, i cant presume to know if what he was playing was "mush" or tunes back to back. I guess my point was that when its really high quality mush, who cares anyway? Cuz the music has enough rhythem that the label doesnt matter anymore. However I may be critical of what could be construed as exclusionary tactics, especially at the beginning of the evening. I had to work quite hard, we both did, we had to pour on the charm, to get a foothold. It doesnt neccessarily bode well for a session to run that way. I am wondering if the poor turnout that night had anything to do with this manner, I mean after all this was the famous ChiefOneils in the famous Chicago..where were all the throngs of people/ where were the punters? Is that just because of summer? I played with thirteen different groups of people during my trip across, and learned tons from each group, about craic and fun and joy and virtuosity and timbre-tone -... the whole and the parts. Mckiney himself talked with me about this..he said .. yeah, I have heard this is considered an aloof session but i cant understand why... maybe the guy is just as insecure as the rest of us..
anyway i dont want to let on like im his buddy now or anything.. for heavens sake i only talked to him for a few minutes after the session...
brendean is certainly an awesome player and pat the bouzouk was beautifully in sync with him, and indeed i am sorry if i made it sound like "dragging' perhaps what i meant was that really strong melodic playing gives everyone else a free ride, the strength of the one makes the other jobs easier...well, wa easier the accy. can go way out of the regular harmonies, like Pat did, into some very discordant interpretations without disrupting the flow when there is a strong leader holding the direction..
pretty scary being opinianated or criticasl on this website..burns the cheeks a bit.. ah but what is life but a big learning map...
woops .. long replies are often a good sign of defensiveness on the part of the writer....
you guys are probasbly right an I m just trying to cover my errors ...
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
hi dow.. was Will trying to do that too? That was my ambitious project before starting our trip ,, to know the top 100 on the session'org tunelist..it pretty near killed me i got all whipped up for a few weeks there in june. Hmm.. now the dust has settled i can say i have retained and built into my repertoure -wait for it - three of the new tunes i learned from that list.. i think thats kinda funnny...
goes ta show.. ambition ambition ambition..watch how you ambush your ambitious-ness...
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
Ha - no, I keep learning obscure tunes no one else plays. And this summer I've been going over old stuff, a bit of a hiatus from learning new tunes (aside from Exile from Erin). And working on flute daily.
It's funny to know more tunes than I can keep track of, and yet there are still lots of standard session tunes I've just never taken the time to internalize. The days are not long enough....
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
God Almighty Q!! Flook tunes are brilliant - I guess it just depends what kind of sessions you want to be playing in. I was just in Ireland and spent the entire of Miltown at sessions that play exactly those kind of tunes,same as in Galway - and it was deadly!!
How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
::Has had sudden urge of curiosity::
So?
I know about 66 or 67 right now, not sure if I completely learned... Glens of Akrow, so yeah. I usually learn tunes, probably once in a while, unless I stumble upon a treasure of catchy tunes. And I usually do both, notes especially when I struggle trying to hear a reel on a CD ~_~;
Wheeee,
Armand
# Posted on August 3rd 2004 by fiddlinviolinin
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
I've no idea how many tunes I know. I don't have the patience (or the inclination) to work it out. A conservative estimate would be 150.
How often do I learn tunes - only once each!Hahahahahahaha!
Seriously - it's very variable, sometimes two or three together in an evening, sometimes no serious effort at anything new for a threeweek. Mostly learned by ear, though I can (slowly) work out a tune from the dots until it is lodged in the space between my brain and my skull, from whence it can be snatched instantaneously, (and botched into unrecognisability at the drop of a hat).
Dave
# Posted on August 3rd 2004 by showaddydadito
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
If you're still counting them then, maybe, you don't know enough.
Mind you, there's the argument that it's better just to play a few really well than many badly.
I use both methods and also a combination of both methods. It just depends. Some I learn extremely quickly but others are sometimes on "the burner" for weeks or months before they get their first outing.
# Posted on August 3rd 2004 by Back for a while
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
I would be hard pressed to play all the tunes I ever played well. Some are just not played by others that I play with, so they have been "Archived" some voluntarily some not. My "active list" is a couple dozen of each type and my favorite tune is the one I am currently learning. I have taken as long as 6 months to learn a tune well enough, or have it on the first go round. If I can accompany but can't play lead, do I really know the tune?WB
# Posted on August 3rd 2004 by windybaer
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
John J: Yep - I agree, and I've subscribed to that argument in the past - and still do to some extent. I was initially taught to only learn a few tunes and focus on all the other aspects of flute - tone, embouchure, breath control, rhythm, etc...
Upside of that is I feel good about those aspects of my playing now. Downside is that I'm not able to participate in many session tunes because I don't know many. My current philosophy is "balance" between improving technique, learning tunes, retaining tunes that I already have, etc... simple reality for me is - unless you're a pro, there aren't enough hours in a day to do it all... so I just try to balance as best I can...
As such, my tune count (~100) is probably relatively low for how long I've been playing (~6 yrs). How often do I learn tunes? I don't schedule it - but I usually binge-learn in the several weeks after a workshop. I prefer to learn by ear, but often use sheet music. When I learn from dots, I can usually memorize a tune in about an hour, but then lose it within the next hour. When I learn by ear, it can usually mean several hours or days with the Pause and Rewind buttons, but retention is nearly infinite. Funny how that works.
# Posted on August 3rd 2004 by browndog
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
I know at least 30 from sheet music--before I started to learn by ear. I haven't counted recently but I've learned around 150+ by ear. So total I'd say probably just short of 200.
However, the amount that I'd be willing to play in front of someone-say Matt Molloy-is drastically fewer, maybe 10-20. I heartily agree that it is much better to know a few tunes *really* well than it is to know 1000 sloppily-played ones.
-Jonathan
# Posted on August 3rd 2004 by jdave
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
Well, my tunebook says that I know about 150 tunes, but my instinct tells me that I know a couple more. Most of the tunes I can play directly from the heart, but there's lots of tunes that I can play along with, but can't strat myself.
# Posted on August 3rd 2004 by Dark Raven
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
I know around 40 or so all read off sheet music. I started learning them within the past year. add this to all the tunes I know on guitar when I was playing in a rock band ~ hundreds, learned by both ear and notes. I have not begun to learn by ear yet but shall soon with the sessions I attend. I agree with bkessler, i can learn a tune in about an hour and then forget it the next. In the past, learning other tunes by ear, it seems like it willnever go away.
# Posted on August 4th 2004 by bartolj
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
Know by heart? Damfino. Probably somewhere between 30 and 50, although when I get stage fright the number becomes about 10% of that.
How often do I learn them? As often as practice time and a dicky memory will permit.
Ear or notes? Preferably ear, with the dots as a refresher during the critical I've-almost-got-it stage. Some pieces I have to go for dots alone because I have no source right now for ear, or I go relearn the tune from dots to get the unornamented version of the melody so I can ornament it my own way. Ear stays with me better,though.
Saraa
# Posted on August 4th 2004 by sara g
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
Only about 40 or so. I used to use the dots, but I now only use them if it is absolutely impossible for me to find a recording anywhere, like if it's something obscure in O'Neill's. I really have to work hard to memeorize ones I learn from the dots.
# Posted on August 4th 2004 by Max Becher
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
Hmm, I like the idea.. theory.. something... Of knowing some tunes well, rather than a good amount played horribly. As a matter of fact, I kind of apply to both, kind of ish, a majority of the tunes I used to play alot and loved, and they kind of just fell back there somewhere, I play them if I ever remember that I know them, haha. But one thing is for sure, I
# Posted on August 4th 2004 by fiddlinviolinin
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
Jeremy, I think you need to call an ambulance. Armand's passed out. Does anyone know how to do CPR?
# Posted on August 4th 2004 by Dow
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
Hey Dow, how many BOUNCY tunes do you know?
# Posted on August 4th 2004 by Ani Trec-Noc
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
Lots in my head, Fuzzy, but I can't play them
# Posted on August 4th 2004 by Dow
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
Thats the way Armand, always leave them wanting more.
# Posted on August 4th 2004 by showaddydadito
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
Armand's not responding. He turned blue ages ago...
# Posted on August 4th 2004 by Dow
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
It's playing them without faltering is the thing. When I think I know a tune right through I've started to jot down the title and just the first bar of each section in a notebook - otherwise my mind goes blank. I won't guess how many I can play without hesitation or deviation - nothing to boast about!
# Posted on August 4th 2004 by RichardB
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
How many do I know? - Not nearly enough
How often? - Not nearly enough - but my resolution for this year was to try and add a tune a week. I've not done too badly but it's an addiction - the more I learn, the more I want!! Tunes learnt by ear sink in better than from dots. The problem is that I play through a book of tunes and want to learn so many of them. I must admit to having a bar in a notebook as well - sometimes my mind just goes blank in a session!!
# Posted on August 4th 2004 by Tarrantella
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
How do I learn? Any method at all - By asking the name and looking it up or by hearing them (and writing them down if possible, so I dont forget it) - by listening to cds and dotting them down or by reading tune books and re-arranging sets.
How many do I know? Who knows?
How many can you play (have you played in the past) is a different question to how many do you know, as some people can play tunes they have heard but never played before.
Last Tuesdays sesh was quiet so wo compatriots, Mel & Cameron (name dropping) tried a "lets see how many tunes we can play that Geoff doesn't know" evening.
Naturally there were quite a few I hadn't heard before but I surprised myself how much I could play of tunes I had heard and kept in the back of my mind but had never played them before.
# Posted on August 4th 2004 by geoffwright
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
Yeah, that happened to me with a slide once. I had heard it a million times (I don't know where), but when it came up at a session, I was able to play it, even though I hadn't before.
# Posted on August 4th 2004 by Max Becher
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
Been playing fife for 29 years (with more intermittent bouts on the whistle), and (like others) go through spurts of feverish activity of learning new stuff. Haven't counted, but well into the hundreds. Tunes I know well? Probably around 100. Mostly learned by ear. Know lots to hear them, with no clue as to their names.
Copying out what I hear can help to fix a tune in my brain, but I'm not a sophisticated enough musician to know a whole lot about what I'm doing. Someone with more training and skill can usually sort out my scratchings into something musically readable to the rest of the world (or at least to our group).
I find that by playing tapes, record albums, or MIDI files over and over, tunes that my fingers don't know yet will get pretty well burned into my brain; when the imprint has been made indelible on the brain, the fingers then usually know what to do.
# Posted on August 4th 2004 by Dwatted Wabbit
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
Max - that happens when you don't just know tunes, but know your instrument - so you can play straight from your head to the instrument, rather than having to learn a sequence of finger movements. I can do it readily on the whistle, but not so well on the mandolin or banjolin.
Another thing that happens to me now and then is I find myself spontaneously playing (solo - not necessarily in a session) a tune I never played before, that I have heard sometime in the past - don't know where or when, and then having to ask my compatriots if any of them know what it is or where I might have got it from. This happened to me with The Poll Halfpenny one time in a session. It's a very strange feeling.
Time for tea now - goodnight all - and flights of angels sing thee to thy rest.
Dave
# Posted on August 4th 2004 by showaddydadito
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
O_o; I never finished my thingy... Well, errr, umm, I'm revived!
::tries to finish::
The Ballydesmond Polka set and errr, I said something else... How did that not post?! Oh well!!!
::Flies away to friend's house followed by Jimmy D's::
Btw, Max, what was the slide you hear a million times but played it when ya heard it at a session like woah? When I think slide, I hear "O'Keefe's Slide" Hope I spelled that right..
# Posted on August 4th 2004 by fiddlinviolinin
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
thousands I think -learn about 5 a week on an average week...if I'm feeling inclined. maybe less if I'm feeling bored or whatever. DOW!!Do I know thousands??maybe just hundreds - cant tell when I'm Drunk!
# Posted on August 4th 2004 by shoddy fiddle player
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
Oh, by ear - cant read music -which after all these years have finally realise its a curse!!!
# Posted on August 4th 2004 by shoddy fiddle player
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
I think I know a few thousand by now. I've finally reached that point when I can go to a session and play a tune I never remembered knowing, it just plays itself. I'm also finally learning to read music; like Beebs I've realised it's a hindrance not being able to do so, to me anyhow. I learn all my tunes by ear, and will probably continue to do so if I can, even when I reach some sort of proficiency at sight reading.
# Posted on August 4th 2004 by Conán McDonnell
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
i mostly learn by ear and refer to notation sometimes no idea on number but dont think numbers are important.. if i like it i learn it .
# Posted on August 4th 2004 by corncrake
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
Yeah, you really do need to know a few thousand tunes to play in good sessions. It sounds daunting to us beginners but someday we'll get there. I have sat down and painfully learned somewhere around 300+ tunes by ear since I started playing 3+ years ago. But like someone important said to me recently at the Catskills, it's your own personal journey of the Music that really matters, not some end result.....I'm trying not to worry about quantity. I do learn about 2 to 3 tunes a week since that's all I can handle, but I do it when I feel like it. No schedules or anything like that. I devote most of my time to playing the Music, so it will all come together eventually....I hope
Joyce
# Posted on August 4th 2004 by JMH
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
Hmmm, well, there are just over 3000 tunes on this database. I'd say the common session tunes were all posted ages ago. It's getting rarer now that I hear a tune at a session that hasn't been posted here. There are also a lot of tunes on this database that don't get played in Irish sessions. There's nothing wrong with that of course, but with that in mind, I'd say that the number of tunes on the database that are going to stand you in good stead for an Irish session is a *lot* less than 3000. I think you could get away with a few hundred, like 300+ for 3 years playing is great Joyce - go grrrl!
and if you can play somewhere between 1000-2000 tunes then you'd have no problem coping in any session. Knowing "thousands" would be great, but not a necessary requirement.
# Posted on August 5th 2004 by Dow
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
I prefer to learn by ear and don't have too much trouble doing it, but most of my initial learning is from dots simply because the process is more "interruption-proof".
I can play through a tune outline from dots several times over in the same time it takes to set up the PC or tape player, listen to a phrase twice and then get hit with the inevitable once the fiddle is heard and it is deemed that I am "Filling In Time And Clearly Have Nothing Important To Do"
# Posted on August 5th 2004 by Tish
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
Ah, I was thinking that a majority of you guys would have a few thousand in your brain, well it's true to few..
Hmmm, 100 tunes a year isn't bad =P
# Posted on August 5th 2004 by fiddlinviolinin
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
Oops I miscalculated. If you go by tune# then you get about 3300 on the database, but if you do a big tune search it says there are about 6600. My wee brain doesn't understand that! So in that case I suppose a few thousand tunes would be useful. I don't know thousands yet. I've met some people who've been playing 20 or 30 years and who know thousands, but people like that are rare in Australia!
I still reckon you can get through a session with a few hundred. 100 tunes a year, that's 10 years to learn 1000 tunes. Seems about right to me... That's like an average of what? 2 tunes a week? I reckon I'm learning more than 2 a week at the moment - maybe like 3 or 4 - so that means that at this rate I can have learnt 2000 tunes in the next 10 years! (Yeah right!) How come I never know any of the tunes anyone else is playing, and they don't know any of mine?... Bloody annoying that. Beebs would say it's cuz I have bad taste. Whatever. Ah well, I'm gonna keep plodding on anyway
# Posted on August 5th 2004 by Dow
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
God I am such a duhbrain. The 6000+ includes alternative names. Ignore what I just said.
# Posted on August 5th 2004 by Dow
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
What's that big blank space above your last post, Dow?
# Posted on August 5th 2004 by GaryAMartin
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
I've no idea how many I've learned or how many I still remember, at this point. All I know is that I've never learned enough of them, or didn't learn the one that I should have learned, or I've learned a bunch of tunes that people I'm playing with at THIS or THAT session don't know, and I need to learn more no matter how many I've already learned, so now I don't worry about it.
# Posted on August 5th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
hmm..ten tunes a week times two hundred weeks (from someone who starts rolloing at age ninety)
or one tune a week times two thousand weeks (from a toung lassie or laddie.....
time, ambition, registers...
it all becomes mush after awhile
do you wanna know about my trip/ mabbe about brendan mkiney's elevated mishmash? did i get his name right? am i getting meself into trouble, yet?
# Posted on August 5th 2004 by vboyd100
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
he would, for example, return to me in the following set my own tunes, not knowing he had done so.........he(Illanpipes) and a bouzouki player named pat rocked through their sets in such a way that it was difficult to discern what tune when...
One, The Moment......
demanding, insisting. I was glad I took the bait and presented my own insistence on the banjo with sliding fiddle backup, and felt good when the bouzouki joined in........
playing in strange and foreign environments is so good -scary and delicious, and I feel sorry for peple who are uptight and protective, geniuses and dunces alike.
i really do love you guys on this website....
wooops. we bottled beer today
# Posted on August 5th 2004 by vboyd100
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
It's not how many you know that will make you a good player, but how many you've delliberatly forgoten. I'll say it again:
"There are too many tunes"
"There are too many tunes"
"There are too many tunes"
# Posted on August 5th 2004 by llig leahcim
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
How do you deliberately forget a tune, Michael? Isn't this like telling someone NOT to think about elephants
Trevor
# Posted on August 5th 2004 by lazyhound
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
I've deliberately forgotten what I was going to post here.
# Posted on August 5th 2004 by Conán McDonnell
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
But how do we which dozen or so tunes we ought to be playing, Michael? Especially when you don't believe in making lists?
# Posted on August 5th 2004 by Back for a while
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
I know too many tunes to play them all well. I also never seem to know enough tunes.
I learn at least a tune a week, this week, I learned three. No schedule, though, just like Joyce said. (Hi Joyce!) It's much for fun that way.
Veronica, what ever are you going on about now?
# Posted on August 5th 2004 by Andee
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
Veronica, I'd like a pint of whatever you're having! Sounds fun. heard you had a nice trip around the country recently. Did you enjoy your sessions?
On the subject of learning by ear, I'm sure at least some of you have listened to a CD so many times that you practically know how to play all the the tunes. In traditional music there are so many common riffs, for want of a better word, that sometimes it's simply a case of mentally selecting them from different tunes and putting them together.
# Posted on August 5th 2004 by Conán McDonnell
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
Veronica reminds me of Nanny Ogg from the Discworld novels, if only because of her indefatigable good humour, and possibly also the home-brewing
How many tunes do I know? Not nearly enough, sad to say. In a given session, I can still only play about 20% of the tunes played. Which is shocking, as I really should know the entire 'repertoire', cos it doesn't take me too long to learn tunes.
It's just that during my practice time I keep getting distracted by funky tunes that aren't allowed at proper sessions. I blame Flook. It's all Brian and Sarah's fault!
# Posted on August 5th 2004 by Q
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
Between 20% and 50% is pretty good. If you just go to the one session, you'll get to know all the tunes but it's nice to have variety.
# Posted on August 5th 2004 by Back for a while
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
hi conan, Q, and all, thx for asking! Pete and I went from toronto canada through the northern states to victoria canada. out of the eighteen days it took to get across, we had sessions 13 days. Not bad! some were house sessions, some were pub sessions. three of the connections came through this website directly. One was Naperville, Illinois an "every other monday that fit our schedule. I have commented on in the "sessions" section of this session.org website (sounds like the pheasant plucking song huh?)Naperville is just outside Chicago and so we backtracked to make the famous Chief Oneil session on the next day in chicago. I had hoped to meet Tusong, but he wasn't there, however Brendan mckiney (i think that was his name, a illanpipes player, also owner of the pub) and an accypanist bouzouk player named Pat, with a healthy accent..they played what I was trying to describe above...I am quite certain they had little idea what tune they were playing at any one moment because as I explained, at several points in the evening Mckiney played some of my tunes back to me,ones I had just finished playing, but his presentation of them was altered. I asked him about it afterward, about whether he was throwing my tunes back in a gesture of grace or acknowledgement and he explained no, he just plays off the top of his head, just flies at the music so to speak. It makes for good music but can be somewhat dominating, I would suggest he is a solo player. His accypanist Pat was marvelously tight. It was a great experience, only six of us altogether, but not great Craic. The craic (craiccraic craic -new word for me-) the real goodest funnest for us was in the Gays Mills area of Wisconsin (I have posted some leads in the "sessions" section), where we played for dances etc., and the wonderful adventures, music and hospitality we received from Will Harmon's cronies in Helena Montana. Now, they were a good bunch! We had a blast....nice part of the world that Helena Montana!
well, anyway thx for listening about our trip!
oh yeah..we didnt go on any interstates the whole 6,000k (interstate means freeway, uh,autobahn I think you call it in Europe...)
we camped 6 nights, stayed with people 7 nights and stayed in little motels 4 nights,mostly around the Chicago area..
we had tons of brilliant adventures.....oh gawd does it half to be over already? boo hoo
oh, finally, the reason I'm discussing my trip on this "how many tunes do you know" thread is because of its relavancy relevancy to the musical style we experienced at Chief Oneils..
oh, and one more thing.we make a delicious beer every month or so, and readers usually can tell when we bottle.. so come on over and have a pint this week, K?
# Posted on August 5th 2004 by vboyd100
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
Harkening back to what Conan's saying above, maybe it doesn't matter how many tunes you know, but whether you've done your listening and can pick up (as opposed to "learn") tunes fairly quickly.
I know a good few tunes, but never enough; on the other hand, I've had people say things like "you must know a zillion tunes!". Which isn't really true, because I'm just faking along to stuff I've heard on recordings a thousand times, and somebody else is actually carrying the tune. Hopefully I'm faking well enough to support the person who's carrying the tune rather than being a distraction, and hopefully somewhere along the way I'll really learn the tune. How else are you going to get to playing 3000+ tunes and all the myriad variations?
# Posted on August 5th 2004 by Gzeg
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
I forget them twice as fast as I learn them so I'm on the verge of forgetting more than I ever knew.
# Posted on August 5th 2004 by Bren
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
vboyd, I think that one might safely say that Brendan McKinney is a very good player, whether playing solo or at a session. It's spelled "uilleann" or *uillean", by the way. It's also quite safe to say that they knew precisely what tunes they were playing.
# Posted on August 5th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
uh uh zina.. mm mm no he didnt know what tune he was playing. tha's my point about tunes melting together into an energetic mush, given the artist who can accomplish this. Dance music is so dependant on the cohesion of the backup through, via, an artist.. Do you get what I am trying to say? A good hard leader predisposes any other melodic players, and demands nothing more than excellent accompaniment.ITs about rhythm. A really good lead can drag half a dozen rhythm players behind him. Frankie Gavin last month (er year) at concert dragged four backup players along and I think it was a great concert on Saltspring Island. There is no mistaking who was leading that group........he hauled a bouzouk an a tenor an a bohron and what the hell else i cant rememeber.
there is a player here who I admire for the same momentum and energy, but,, uh uh he didnt know "where" he was.. no no .. he was in another stratosphere and this is what made his playing solo rather than group. He was completely unaware that he was playing Music in the Glen or whatever else bedammed tune I'd introduced ten minutes before........
so anyway, brendan mckiney was on his own train, steam locomotive to his own place...
# Posted on August 7th 2004 by vboyd100
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
we do say illan around here jus' cuz it's quicker. No offence meant.
# Posted on August 7th 2004 by vboyd100
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
vboyd, what I am telling you is that perhaps you shouldn't "guarantee" what Brendan McKinney knows and doesn't know.
He's an excellent player who plays with other excellent players and who provides a place for those excellent players to play together. I "guarantee" you that he knew what tunes he was playing whether he knew the titles of them or not. He was being very, very nice to you, despite his reputation for plain-speaking, and perhaps you should leave it at that.
# Posted on August 7th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
How many? Whatever number Conán says he knows, I claim about half that, cos he's sucha session hoor
How often? Varies, depending on which sessions I'm going to.
Ear or Notes? I learned quite a few tunes from the dots initially, but learning by ear became easier and easier the more I learned. I guess these days I either absorb them from hearing them, or sometimes ask people to play them for me. However, my system just seems to reject some tunes, we're just not compatible e.g. Jig of Slurs. But if I hear a tune I find too difficult to learn I always ask its name so I can grouch about playing it in a set if someone suggests it
# Posted on August 7th 2004 by Just a person
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
vboyd, I'm not quite certain what you are saying about Brendan but I do have a few comments to make on the subject of Brendan and Cheif's.
Having been at the different sessions at Cheif's a number of times, I think I can say definitively that Brendan knew what he was playing. Very possible he didn't know the name of the tune (hey, I'm finally getting to where there are enough tunes in my head that I sometimes forget the names, yay!), but there's no doubt in my mind that he 'knew' the tune.
I've never seen Brendan 'drag' backup players along, it is more like they are playing together as a unit. Which seems nicer to me than 'dragging'
. THe times that I've gone, there have been multiple melody players and they have most often all been in sync, no matter who started the set. Because the players are usually all of such a high caliber, no one player stands out (except when they start a set or when they play one that no one else knows). Instead, what you hear is the tune/music itself. Which I rather like at a session. This isn't just a Chief's thing, sessions that I've been to with a clump of excellent players have been that way.
WRT to him playing the same thing you did. Might it be possible that your setting of the tunes was different enough from his that he thought they were different tunes. It could be that hearing your version popped his into his head. Considering how close some 'different' tunes can be, it wouldn't surprise me. In fact, maybe he *was* playing a different tune and you didn't realize it. *grin*
In any case, Brendan is a fine player and he runs a fine high-level session. My suggestion would be to wait until you are a player of his caliber and a leader of a session where the top players play before critizing him.
cb
# Posted on August 7th 2004 by chicagofiddler
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
Hi Veronica. It's possible--likely even--that Brendan was playing a tune back to you so you could hear his version of it. Years ago, Liz Carroll did that for me once, with the Absent-minded Old Woman, and I learned a lot by listening to her phrasing and timing, which brought the tune to life (at least compared to my rather pedestrian attempt to play it).
My experience of the better session players is that they *always* know what tune they're playing, whether they can tell you the name or not, and whether or not the tune is firmly in their repertoire. Even if it's some obscure tune they've only nibbled at in the past. When they really don't know the tune, they stop playing and just listen so they can get the tune in their head (a prerequisite to trying to play it).
And when a lead player has to 'drag' the backers along, it's no fun for anyone. If the backers can't keep up, they should drop out, or at least play so quietly that it won't detract from the actual music.
Our Helena session is pretty flexible about this sort of stuff because we have such a small pool of players and a wide range of abilities and experience (and we like to encourage people, but we also expect them to listen, learn, and improve). But many hard core sessions, though initially tolerant, can be less forgiving. Players of Brendan McKinney's caliber have put in the time and effort to get where they are. The rest of us would do well to sit on our hands a bit and listen to what they can do with the music.
# Posted on August 7th 2004 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
ok . thx for input.. i didnt want to suggest that i was critisizing his playing.You are righht though, i cant presume to know if what he was playing was "mush" or tunes back to back. I guess my point was that when its really high quality mush, who cares anyway? Cuz the music has enough rhythem that the label doesnt matter anymore. However I may be critical of what could be construed as exclusionary tactics, especially at the beginning of the evening. I had to work quite hard, we both did, we had to pour on the charm, to get a foothold. It doesnt neccessarily bode well for a session to run that way. I am wondering if the poor turnout that night had anything to do with this manner, I mean after all this was the famous ChiefOneils in the famous Chicago..where were all the throngs of people/ where were the punters? Is that just because of summer? I played with thirteen different groups of people during my trip across, and learned tons from each group, about craic and fun and joy and virtuosity and timbre-tone -... the whole and the parts. Mckiney himself talked with me about this..he said .. yeah, I have heard this is considered an aloof session but i cant understand why... maybe the guy is just as insecure as the rest of us..
anyway i dont want to let on like im his buddy now or anything.. for heavens sake i only talked to him for a few minutes after the session...
brendean is certainly an awesome player and pat the bouzouk was beautifully in sync with him, and indeed i am sorry if i made it sound like "dragging' perhaps what i meant was that really strong melodic playing gives everyone else a free ride, the strength of the one makes the other jobs easier...well, wa easier the accy. can go way out of the regular harmonies, like Pat did, into some very discordant interpretations without disrupting the flow when there is a strong leader holding the direction..
pretty scary being opinianated or criticasl on this website..burns the cheeks a bit.. ah but what is life but a big learning map...
woops .. long replies are often a good sign of defensiveness on the part of the writer....
you guys are probasbly right an I m just trying to cover my errors ...
# Posted on August 8th 2004 by vboyd100
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
Hey Will have you learnt all those tunes off your common tunes list yet?
# Posted on August 8th 2004 by Dow
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
hi dow.. was Will trying to do that too? That was my ambitious project before starting our trip ,, to know the top 100 on the session'org tunelist..it pretty near killed me i got all whipped up for a few weeks there in june. Hmm.. now the dust has settled i can say i have retained and built into my repertoure -wait for it - three of the new tunes i learned from that list.. i think thats kinda funnny...
goes ta show.. ambition ambition ambition..watch how you ambush your ambitious-ness...
# Posted on August 8th 2004 by vboyd100
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
Not the website list but the one Will posted here a couple of years ago.
# Posted on August 8th 2004 by Dow
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
Ha - no, I keep learning obscure tunes no one else plays. And this summer I've been going over old stuff, a bit of a hiatus from learning new tunes (aside from Exile from Erin). And working on flute daily.
It's funny to know more tunes than I can keep track of, and yet there are still lots of standard session tunes I've just never taken the time to internalize. The days are not long enough....
# Posted on August 8th 2004 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: How many tunes do you know? How often do you learn tunes? Ear or Notes?
God Almighty Q!! Flook tunes are brilliant - I guess it just depends what kind of sessions you want to be playing in. I was just in Ireland and spent the entire of Miltown at sessions that play exactly those kind of tunes,same as in Galway - and it was deadly!!
# Posted on August 9th 2004 by shoddy fiddle player