Hi you guys!! New member, mad for tunes and love altan!!
Hi you guys!! New member, mad for tunes and love altan!!
hi people! my name is mairead and im from donegal (what a coincidence) and im mad for tunes. i play the fiddle but am really intrigued with the northern style of playing.
it just so happens that i was at a session last nite and it was brilliant!!! a group of my friends were there but the only thing was that there was one box player there who totally ruined it. he played the piano accordion and thankfully it was only a 72 bass i think they are called but he was terrible. kept lashin into tunes he only knew and wore the most cheesy grin you've ever seen in your lives. my god he was AWFUL!! he was one of those big headed people as well. kept tellin everyone that he was going to play next and none of us were allowed to join in. i couldnt believe it!! i mean, it seems that any piano accordion player ive ever met has just been woeful. r there any good p.a players out there other than alan kelly? jackie daly isnt so bad but dont u just get sick of them after a while. any people ive met playin 'that' instrument have a very arrogant streak about them. maybe its just my unfortunate luck but i personally think that they should be opened and blown apart with the nearest shotgun, all of them.
sorry about that little diversion there folks but i really had to get that off my chest. ban all those damned piano accordion players. a pile of you are probably going to retaliate now ive said that but that i suppose is just my unfortunate encounters with damned donegal piano accordion players who are definitely the worst. pity they cant be button accordion players. god they are so much nicer. so sweet and cute. not big and blasting in your earhole. im still recovering from all my experiences. i swear that i think ive been left slightly deaf after coming across each of these monsters. i went to the fleadh a few years ago and the competitions were pretty good. however, i was dragged into going to the piano accordion competitions and i was left bald after my experience (not really this fella went up and came second in enniscorthy i think and i remember seein some girl talkin to him afterwards and he looked disappointed!!! i was disappointed he was placed at all and god his shoes clicked...that was funny. i dont know how that girl put up with his playing. she must have the patience of a saint plus she was a fello fiddler!! strength to you girl!! give me an opinion or two on this guys.
mairead.
Re: Hi you guys!! New member, mad for tunes and love altan!!
I speak my mind all the time & haven't been kicked out yet - I'm the only curmudgeon who’s achieved that stately title at the ripe age of 27. I’ve heard people bitch about the Piano Accordions before, but I’ve never came across one who could keep up with the tunes at sessions, even slow beginner ones. They usually sit there with a “who farted” look on their face as the tunes roll by, then try to intervene a low grade version of “The wearing’ of the green” to everyone’s dismay. I’ve just got a case of the St. Paddy’s & needed to blow off some steam. Welcome aboard Tune Fanatic!
Re: Hi you guys!! New member, mad for tunes and love altan!!
Oh man, I'm still laughing, Mairead! Woeful! Imagine a session with 3 highland pipers in a small pub. It happened to me and boy, was it woeful! They were really good players, though. But my ears rang for awhile afterwards. Anyway, welcome to the Session!
I've never seen a piano accordian at a session. My grandfather used to love Lawrence Welk and that's who I think of when I think "Piano Accordian". It nearly ruined me for life. But I've run into some fiddle players with approximately the same attitude, cheesy grin and all. "I'm the best player here so alls you little people just sit still and listen!". Blechh. That's when a "who farted" look probably crosses my face! Thanks for the visual, Mad One The St. Paddy's Day Flu? I swear that next year I'm not going any where *near* any event with "Celtic" or "Irish" in its name. Uh, wait....I said that last year. Dang!
Re: Hi you guys!! New member, mad for tunes and love altan!!
Your abso-smurf-ly right christine, us fiddle players have a penchant for the rarer tunes - I don't know why. I think there are too many of us out there & we need something to stand out. I went to a session in Boston once where I sat there for hours before I heard a tune I knew -I thought it was weird because I'm pretty familier with most ITM, than I was told it was all Cape Breton music being played with the Irish swing. I think the world of the fiddler who was running the session - but he could've given me a warning.
Re: Hi you guys!! New member, mad for tunes and love altan!!
One of the nicest, most humble, skilled and flexible musicians I've ever met is a piano accordionist: I met Karen Tweed, the english accordeon player, last summer and she is as far from your description as possible. And Mad, I think she'd easily play most tunes faster than you, though she'd probably not want to. She'd prefer to play with you.
B T W, she's the accordion player at the BBC's "Virtual Session" that you can find at the Links-section here at the Session
lars
Re: Hi you guys!! New member, mad for tunes and love altan!!
It's not actually that the piano accordian players are uniformly bad, y'all. It's more the player. I mean, don't you know players who really aren't all that great, but who everyone loves to have around a session because they're such great people? Or have you ever noticed how someone missing a note (or phrase, or tune) may not bother you if you like the player, but if you don't like the player, it's pretty annoying?
Yeah, PA's are pretty loud. There's a reason why they aren't normally considered session instruments, and that is the sheer volume of them. Karen Tweed's comments on the matter at the BBC session are very typical of a sensitive musician and person who plays instruments that have been accused of being too loud to play in the forum in which they play. She's a great player, and I dumped my version of Mason's Apron for the BBC session's setting... heh.
A PA player who shows up at a session without knowing the basic etiquette is probably one who doesn't know the tunes and culture very well, soooooo.... It's tough to be a beginner and make mistakes you don't even know you're making. The session leader at all of these sessions described should probably have a word if these situations are turning into a regular occurence...
Re: Hi you guys!! New member, mad for tunes and love altan!!
Some good points Zina! A friend who is a beginner on the Irish pipes showed up to the session last night. For only playing a year, he's doing well. But because he is such a great guy, I don't seem to mind the "oops" or wrong notes here and there. He works hard at his music and is a very down to earth person. I respect him for that.
Re: Hi you guys!! New member, mad for tunes and love altan!!
Lars when I said "Keep up" I wasn't referring to speed, i was just talking about knowing more than two tunes, there are exceptions I have to admit that I like Paddy Noonan & Karen Tweeds PA stuff. But I also have to admit I've never heard a PA player be able to play in a session whether it's due to a lack of tunes, technique or whatever. By saying that I'm not saying every PA player is bad, I'm just stating what I've observed.
Re: Hi you guys!! New member, mad for tunes and love altan!!
Here's my favorite joke: What are highland pipes good for?
Kindling for an accordion fire. Har Har.
I've always disapproved of the piano accordion. My attitude will never change. They're just wrong. So very, very wrong. Heartfelt apologies if I've hurt any piano accordion players' feelings (it's not you, really, it's the instrument you play - honest! My fiance has TWO piano accordions and I still love him. He's a comedian, though... so... )
I do, however, approve of the concertina and the diatonic accordion, whole-heartedly. I have Gearóid O hAllmhuráin and Patrick Ourceau's album "tracin'" on perpetual loop in my car. Dermot Byrne absolutely blows my mind. (Pick up Pierre Schryer and Dermot Byrne's album "two worlds united" - really good selection of irish, french, scottish, CB and original tunes with a blinding 7 part hornpipe).
I digress, of course. What I actually wanted to say was that while many of us have gripes and like to anonymously vent them here, we should be cautious our comments are not unintentionally hurtful or discouraging to others. I wouldn't want PA players to read this thread and think "Gosh, it seems all non-PA players hate all PA players but Karen Tweed. Oh, the unbearable curse of my passion for the exquisite piano accordion! Why, oh, why can't they see? Why have you forsaken me, lord, on the cold barren island of piano accordionism, all alone with my damnable obsession?"
I think I'm digressing again. Just be careful, Mairead, since you've been so specific about where and who you are. The person you're bitching about might see it and send you nasty vibes next time you're at a session. (I think that guitar player I always complain about read my unkind words. In fact, when we were still on speaking terms, I think I gave him the link myself...)
Re: Hi you guys!! New member, mad for tunes and love altan!!
Just a short note (a#). Has anyone heard Ciarán Ó Gealbháin (the singer from Danu) playing the piano accordian? Your opinion would change straight away. We had a few tunes together last summer. He played magnificantly. (Ring - where most of the Danu members come from, is only a couple of miles away. Donnchadh Gough (the bodhran player) often joins in at the regular session where I play every Friday/Saturday (sometimes Thursdays and Sundays (same place)). My cousin Sean Norris is brilliant on the piano accordian aswell I must say. He's a great piano player too. There's not many piano accordian players out there compared with button accordianists. When they're played properly, they stand up on their own. I know lots of players who pull up all the knobs on their instruments, just to get the most volume, but it's not the best idea. One of the most important things to remember in a session is that everyone should be heard equally - there is no "boss" in a session. Someone once came into my regular session and asked me could he join in. I replied (jokingly), "You'll have to ask the boss", and I pointed over at the box-player and he nearly ate the head off me with the look he gave me. Anyway, keep an eye out for Ciarán Ó Gealbháin - some say he's the most talented in the band. He plays alot of instruments from guitar to accordian and he's the Traditional Irish Singer of The Year this year. He'll probably come out with a solo effort at some stage IMO. The end.
Re: Hi you guys!! New member, mad for tunes and love altan!!
We've had this conversation on other threads about other instruments, and I still say that it's not what you play but how you play it. I can understand that some people may have a personal aversion to a particular instrument (in the same way that some people have a personal and irreparable attraction to a specific instrument)...as Kerri apparantly has for PAs. That's her opinion and she's entitled to it (and voices it at just the right pitch of humor and earnestness). But I don't think it's all that productive to bash a whole class of instruments and players (unless it's done completey--or 98.5 percent--in jest--the way we all love to pick on bodhrans or banjos). Sure, the PA player at Mairead' session sounds like the accordion rottweiler from hell, but other PA players handle their instument with sensitivity and true musicality. Those BBC virtual session recordings are a good example.
Stutty, I now know where I want to live. Sessioning with the boys from Danu would be a real blast. I sat in without an instrument at two sessions they played in at the Washington Irish Fest 3 years ago, and they were all stupendous fun. True tune hounds, and always ready with a surprising transition or rousing counterpoint to what everyone else was doing.
Re: Hi you guys!! New member, mad for tunes and love altan!!
Picking on banjos I understand, as well as picking on mandolins, zookies, and guitars. But picking on a bodhron? Hmmmmm,,,, Actually wouldn't you tip on a bodhron?? You know,,,, tipper??
Re: Hi you guys!! New member, mad for tunes and love altan!!
Oops, (blush), Stutty, I forgot about Ciaran! You've got me eating my words now. He's a fine, fine player and has a wonderful attitude to go with it. (Although he does come with 6 other players and they can kick up quite a bit of noise...) Thing is, I just plum forgot that was a piano accordion - I suppose it's same phenomenon as people in Europe forgetting the American tourists who aren't obnoxious and demanding. Gosh... maybe I do approve of the PA *sometimes*. (Although maybe the fact that Ciaran is really cute and generous with the Guiness has something to do with it.)
Okay, so we've done the rounds on bashing bodhran players, and guitar players, and PA players and just about everyone else.
So here's a suggestion...let's all trade instruments for a month....play something that you've bashed (or thought about bashing...whistle players..grrrr)...IN A SESSION, yep...in a session where you're not known....and then come back and let us all know what went down.....might change a few hard opinions, but it would be really funny.
Re: Hi you guys!! New member, mad for tunes and love altan!!
As a bodhran bashing, guitar bashing fiddler who also plays bodhran and guitar, I think your suggestion is grand, Andy. If I knew of a session that didn't already have a couple guitars and bodhrans duking it out already, I'd go for it.
I think Zina and Will have eloquently pointed out *how* you play is more important that *what* you play. I completely agree, but reserve the right to make accordion jokes and be apalled when bandmates discuss adding a permanent mono-instrumental accordion player to the group. Of course if Canada had a wealth of Ciarán Ó Gealbháins to choose from, I'd rapidly rethink my position. Seems all we have are Wierd Al Yankoviks.
Hey everybody,i hope no body takes offence at this but its amazing how niave and ignorant some people can be. its allmost like a type of racisment in traditional music.
i'm really still in shock after reading this because what you are doing
mairead is saying that everyone who plays the piano accordion should be shot, thats like saying that all jews are bad and the germans are the mother race, i hear you all thinking that that is a bit strong but in effect that is exactly what mairead is saying.
which is tottaly missing out on the point of traditional music . o.k some are dominant but then again fiddlers can be too along with every other instrument.
Have people forgotten that the point of music is for fun and freindship??? which is also what this web-site is primarily for. its not something that gives people the right to ridicule,insult and exclude people over. and "big-headed"? a big-headed person is someone who thinks themselves better than other people by putting them down.
so isnt that in effect what you are ??
i am sure that any piano accordion player that reads this would be offended even alan kelly whom i know and karan tweed, and allthough i am not familiar with his music all that well, phil cunningham. who gave alot of music to sharon shannon. can we really ALL be that bad ?
If any of you ever get the privalige to meet altan, ask them about the piano accordion players in Donegal because they, best of all, will tell you all about us. dont take the opinion of the ignorant and niave.and while your at it, mention me too. - Martin Tourish (as mentioned above) and they'll tell you all about us.
Re: Hi you guys!! New member, mad for tunes and love altan!!
Martin,
I'm sure most people here would agree that the majority of PA players they've played with are extremly accomplished musicians. To tell the truth, I haven't met one IRM/PA player that wasn't simply fantastic!
But you know, there are some instruments in the world that deserve a little poke in the ribs. It's not that I hate piano accordians or banjos, or zooks or bodhrans. Far from it! But you have to admit that the people who play these instruments have already signed an agreement stating that they can 'take a joke'.
I think 'Tune_fanatic' went perhaps a little over the edge, but what can you do? Don't take it too personally.
Re: Hi you guys!! New member, mad for tunes and love altan!!
Yes, Martin, my first reaction to Mairead's post was that she was using her mouth (or computer keyboard) to do exactly what she was complaining about in this particular piano accordion player. By the time I got to her shotgun comment, I was hoping no one would reply and Mairead would realize that she'd crossed the boundary into unwelcome behavior at The Session.
I also agree that it's a shame we keep seeing posts about what instruments should be excluded at sessions or from Irish music period. Seems like a waste of time to me, and I'm tired of the ugly, uninviting tone it sets here. I hesitated to even weigh in on this thread, but when I did (see March 14 above) it was simply to make the point that how you play should outweigh what you play. And I think most of the people who've taken part in this discussion have said pretty much the same thing. Maybe Mairead will get the point.
Maybe the site would be better off if this thread peterd out through lack of further interest in kicking accordions or any other class of instruments around..... Personally, I've been avoiding it (like the obnoxious drunk at the bar) as much as possible , and enjoying the recent tune postings (like the sounds coming from the circle of musicians in the corner) instead.
P.S. As a fiddler, I'm thrilled whenever I get a chance to play with any non-string instrument because of the interesting blends you get in the sound. Squeeze boxes of all kinds--piano accordions, button boxes, concertinas, whatever--make for really fun duets. Jimmy Keane's piano box played alongside Liz Carroll's fiddle was one of my earliest inspirations for getting into this music.
Re: Hi you guys!! New member, mad for tunes and love altan!!
If my comments offended I offer an apology. I don't hate the PA, I've just never been in the presence of someone at a session who could play the thing. They may have had it strapped on them, but they were not playing. I've heard recordings of people who can & I like it esp. for Ceili Band styled music.
The holocaust was pure evil - there are no Piano Accordian death-camps & frankly the analogy is not anologous, there's a difference between a figure of speech & millions of dead people. Sure the comment was over the line & you found it offensive, but to compare it to Hitler?
What ever happened to having the piss out of someone, life isn't always roses & lolipops. Every player takes their share of grief for their chosen instrument, it's what makes the world spin.
Re: Hi you guys!! New member, mad for tunes and love altan!!
Just wanted to add the fantastic Ger Maloney (from Limerick, living in Carlow) and Michael Tennesson (Leeds) to this discussion. Sound lads, and deadly P.A. players
I've got a transcription of one of Michael Tennyson's tunes in the tune archives, off Verena Commins and Julie Langan's album Fonnchaoi. It's a beautiful tune.
London seems to be a good place for piano accordions. Jimmy Keane, who now lives in Chicago, was born in London, and he's a hell of a player, and composer of some good tunes. Karen Tweed comes from the London area. I am also personally acquainted with two very accomplished piano accordion players in London. One of them plays a 96-bass instrument, but all the bass buttons are broken, so there is no danger of over-using them.
I should like to point out to Mairead, with all due respect, that Jacky Daly plays button accordion, and I have never heard him play anything else. Perhaps the Donegal PA players you mention are influenced by the Scottish style of playing (Jimmy Shand, Phil Cunningham), which tends to involve full chordal 'oom-pah'-style accompaniment (which the instrument was primarily designed for) and is not suited to most Irish sessions.
Mairead again. the bringer of bad news it seems...
hey guys.
"it is the foul mouthed one" striking again
thanks for letting me know that im not the only one who dislikes p.accordions but just to elaborate on the things that i have said which got some of your backs up -one of you in particular.
I wasn't generalising between 'ALL' P.A players out there, as I stated, all the things I said were based and informed on my personal opinion of those I met. All events were based on experience. A lot of people here have taken my views way too personally. Lighten up guys! like 'mad baloney' said. every instrument gets criticised once in a while. no need for everyone to blow up over the piano accordion being criticised.
martin. i said any piano accordion players I HAVE MET. not ALL piano accordion players. i think you read that wrongly. u should check it again.
how can u compare one person's dislike of a p.a to a entire nation's dislike of the jews? u r going way too much overboard here. cool down!
mad baloney is right again. there are no piano accordion death camps. well, none that i have heard of but maybe that is because i live in donegal. tell me if you have heard of any.
im sorry if i offended anybody but stop taking everything so seriously. this is my PERSONAL opinion and yours may be totally different.
and yes, agreeing with Will too, i love playing with instruments other than strings. i love concertina playing. it is enthralling and button accordions too. but i have never and i dont know if i will ever like the piano accordion. i doubt it.
just like you said martin. music is for 'fun' and 'friendship' and therefore shouldnt be taken so seriously. i didnt mean any harm. i was just expressing MY OPINION like i have said so many times already.
why am i being big headed? i dont understand that point.
so i apologise entirely if i caused any offence and maybe this conversation should be ended if people are going to take music so seriously.
thanks again you guys,
mairead
Re: Hi you guys!! New member, mad for tunes and love altan!!
Welcome back Mairead. I think some of us read your first post and missed the sense of humor you intended. It came across pretty serious and strong. And you did suggest banning "all those damned piano accordion players." That's harsh for a site on Irish music. Stating your opinion is one thing, but suggesting putting a shot gun to PA players strikes me as over the top.
I don't mean to preach, but...oh what the hell. Remember that "tone" is a hard thing to convey online. That's why so many of us use the little smiley faces and *grin* and *snicker* add-ons--to make sure no one takes us too seriously. There are plenty of funny, light-hearted discussions on this site, and a wide range of sensibilities when it comes to humor. But we're all fairly careful and thoughtful about what we write--assuming we're sober at the time --because you never know who's reading this stuff, and it could be on display here for a long time. A good rule of thumb is to not say anything you wouldn't say to someone face to face.
I hope you don't write us off as a bunch of overly sensitive prudes (wait till you get to know Zina and Brad!). I for one would like to hear more about sessions in Donegal. Maybe start with some of the positive, fun aspects. Do you ever go to Mairead and Dermot's (Altan's) pub for sessions?
Re: Hi you guys!! New member, mad for tunes and love altan!!
What Will said.
If you intend something to be subtly humourous, you should make liberal use of smiley faces. You'll know this if you've spent any time subscribed to email discussion lists
See.
Mairead, go back and read what you wrote. There is nothing there to indicate that you meant what you wrote to be taken lightheartedly.
That said, Mairtin certainly over-reacted and I'm hereby invoking Godwin's Law:
Hi you guys!! New member, mad for tunes and love altan!!
Hi you guys!! New member, mad for tunes and love altan!!
hi people! my name is mairead and im from donegal (what a coincidence) and im mad for tunes. i play the fiddle but am really intrigued with the northern style of playing.
this fella went up and came second in enniscorthy i think and i remember seein some girl talkin to him afterwards and he looked disappointed!!! i was disappointed he was placed at all and god his shoes clicked...that was funny. i dont know how that girl put up with his playing. she must have the patience of a saint plus she was a fello fiddler!! strength to you girl!! give me an opinion or two on this guys.
it just so happens that i was at a session last nite and it was brilliant!!! a group of my friends were there but the only thing was that there was one box player there who totally ruined it. he played the piano accordion and thankfully it was only a 72 bass i think they are called but he was terrible. kept lashin into tunes he only knew and wore the most cheesy grin you've ever seen in your lives. my god he was AWFUL!! he was one of those big headed people as well. kept tellin everyone that he was going to play next and none of us were allowed to join in. i couldnt believe it!! i mean, it seems that any piano accordion player ive ever met has just been woeful. r there any good p.a players out there other than alan kelly? jackie daly isnt so bad but dont u just get sick of them after a while. any people ive met playin 'that' instrument have a very arrogant streak about them. maybe its just my unfortunate luck but i personally think that they should be opened and blown apart with the nearest shotgun, all of them.
sorry about that little diversion there folks but i really had to get that off my chest. ban all those damned piano accordion players. a pile of you are probably going to retaliate now ive said that but that i suppose is just my unfortunate encounters with damned donegal piano accordion players who are definitely the worst. pity they cant be button accordion players. god they are so much nicer. so sweet and cute. not big and blasting in your earhole. im still recovering from all my experiences. i swear that i think ive been left slightly deaf after coming across each of these monsters. i went to the fleadh a few years ago and the competitions were pretty good. however, i was dragged into going to the piano accordion competitions and i was left bald after my experience (not really
mairead.
# Posted on March 13th 2002 by Tune_fanatic
Re: Hi you guys!! New member, mad for tunes and love altan!!
I speak my mind all the time & haven't been kicked out yet - I'm the only curmudgeon who’s achieved that stately title at the ripe age of 27. I’ve heard people bitch about the Piano Accordions before, but I’ve never came across one who could keep up with the tunes at sessions, even slow beginner ones. They usually sit there with a “who farted” look on their face as the tunes roll by, then try to intervene a low grade version of “The wearing’ of the green” to everyone’s dismay. I’ve just got a case of the St. Paddy’s & needed to blow off some steam. Welcome aboard Tune Fanatic!
# Posted on March 13th 2002 by Mad Baloney
Re: Hi you guys!! New member, mad for tunes and love altan!!
Oh man, I'm still laughing, Mairead! Woeful! Imagine a session with 3 highland pipers in a small pub. It happened to me and boy, was it woeful! They were really good players, though. But my ears rang for awhile afterwards. Anyway, welcome to the Session!
I've never seen a piano accordian at a session. My grandfather used to love Lawrence Welk and that's who I think of when I think "Piano Accordian". It nearly ruined me for life. But I've run into some fiddle players with approximately the same attitude, cheesy grin and all. "I'm the best player here so alls you little people just sit still and listen!". Blechh. That's when a "who farted" look probably crosses my face! Thanks for the visual, Mad One
The St. Paddy's Day Flu? I swear that next year I'm not going any where *near* any event with "Celtic" or "Irish" in its name. Uh, wait....I said that last year. Dang!
# Posted on March 13th 2002 by soft black stars
Re: Hi you guys!! New member, mad for tunes and love altan!!
Your abso-smurf-ly right christine, us fiddle players have a penchant for the rarer tunes - I don't know why. I think there are too many of us out there & we need something to stand out. I went to a session in Boston once where I sat there for hours before I heard a tune I knew -I thought it was weird because I'm pretty familier with most ITM, than I was told it was all Cape Breton music being played with the Irish swing. I think the world of the fiddler who was running the session - but he could've given me a warning.
# Posted on March 13th 2002 by Mad Baloney
Re: Hi you guys!! New member, mad for tunes and love altan!!
One of the nicest, most humble, skilled and flexible musicians I've ever met is a piano accordionist: I met Karen Tweed, the english accordeon player, last summer and she is as far from your description as possible. And Mad, I think she'd easily play most tunes faster than you, though she'd probably not want to. She'd prefer to play with you.
B T W, she's the accordion player at the BBC's "Virtual Session" that you can find at the Links-section here at the Session
lars
# Posted on March 13th 2002 by lars
Re: Hi you guys!! New member, mad for tunes and love altan!!
It's not actually that the piano accordian players are uniformly bad, y'all. It's more the player. I mean, don't you know players who really aren't all that great, but who everyone loves to have around a session because they're such great people? Or have you ever noticed how someone missing a note (or phrase, or tune) may not bother you if you like the player, but if you don't like the player, it's pretty annoying?
Yeah, PA's are pretty loud. There's a reason why they aren't normally considered session instruments, and that is the sheer volume of them. Karen Tweed's comments on the matter at the BBC session are very typical of a sensitive musician and person who plays instruments that have been accused of being too loud to play in the forum in which they play. She's a great player, and I dumped my version of Mason's Apron for the BBC session's setting... heh.
A PA player who shows up at a session without knowing the basic etiquette is probably one who doesn't know the tunes and culture very well, soooooo....
It's tough to be a beginner and make mistakes you don't even know you're making. The session leader at all of these sessions described should probably have a word if these situations are turning into a regular occurence...
Zina
# Posted on March 14th 2002 by Zina Lee
Re: Hi you guys!! New member, mad for tunes and love altan!!
Some good points Zina! A friend who is a beginner on the Irish pipes showed up to the session last night. For only playing a year, he's doing well. But because he is such a great guy, I don't seem to mind the "oops" or wrong notes here and there. He works hard at his music and is a very down to earth person. I respect him for that.
# Posted on March 14th 2002 by JMH
Re: Hi you guys!! New member, mad for tunes and love altan!!
Lars when I said "Keep up" I wasn't referring to speed, i was just talking about knowing more than two tunes, there are exceptions I have to admit that I like Paddy Noonan & Karen Tweeds PA stuff. But I also have to admit I've never heard a PA player be able to play in a session whether it's due to a lack of tunes, technique or whatever. By saying that I'm not saying every PA player is bad, I'm just stating what I've observed.
I have seen Polka bands use it to great effect.
# Posted on March 14th 2002 by Mad Baloney
Re: Hi you guys!! New member, mad for tunes and love altan!!
Here's my favorite joke: What are highland pipes good for?
Kindling for an accordion fire. Har Har.
I've always disapproved of the piano accordion. My attitude will never change. They're just wrong. So very, very wrong. Heartfelt apologies if I've hurt any piano accordion players' feelings (it's not you, really, it's the instrument you play - honest! My fiance has TWO piano accordions and I still love him. He's a comedian, though... so... )
I do, however, approve of the concertina and the diatonic accordion, whole-heartedly. I have Gearóid O hAllmhuráin and Patrick Ourceau's album "tracin'" on perpetual loop in my car. Dermot Byrne absolutely blows my mind. (Pick up Pierre Schryer and Dermot Byrne's album "two worlds united" - really good selection of irish, french, scottish, CB and original tunes with a blinding 7 part hornpipe).
I digress, of course. What I actually wanted to say was that while many of us have gripes and like to anonymously vent them here, we should be cautious our comments are not unintentionally hurtful or discouraging to others. I wouldn't want PA players to read this thread and think "Gosh, it seems all non-PA players hate all PA players but Karen Tweed. Oh, the unbearable curse of my passion for the exquisite piano accordion! Why, oh, why can't they see? Why have you forsaken me, lord, on the cold barren island of piano accordionism, all alone with my damnable obsession?"
I think I'm digressing again. Just be careful, Mairead, since you've been so specific about where and who you are. The person you're bitching about might see it and send you nasty vibes next time you're at a session. (I think that guitar player I always complain about read my unkind words. In fact, when we were still on speaking terms, I think I gave him the link myself...)
Nice to meet you anyway,
Kerri
# Posted on March 14th 2002 by Kerri Brown
Re: Hi you guys!! New member, mad for tunes and love altan!!
Just a short note (a#). Has anyone heard Ciarán Ó Gealbháin (the singer from Danu) playing the piano accordian? Your opinion would change straight away. We had a few tunes together last summer. He played magnificantly. (Ring - where most of the Danu members come from, is only a couple of miles away. Donnchadh Gough (the bodhran player) often joins in at the regular session where I play every Friday/Saturday (sometimes Thursdays and Sundays (same place)). My cousin Sean Norris is brilliant on the piano accordian aswell I must say. He's a great piano player too. There's not many piano accordian players out there compared with button accordianists. When they're played properly, they stand up on their own. I know lots of players who pull up all the knobs on their instruments, just to get the most volume, but it's not the best idea. One of the most important things to remember in a session is that everyone should be heard equally - there is no "boss" in a session. Someone once came into my regular session and asked me could he join in. I replied (jokingly), "You'll have to ask the boss", and I pointed over at the box-player and he nearly ate the head off me with the look he gave me. Anyway, keep an eye out for Ciarán Ó Gealbháin - some say he's the most talented in the band. He plays alot of instruments from guitar to accordian and he's the Traditional Irish Singer of The Year this year. He'll probably come out with a solo effort at some stage IMO. The end.
# Posted on March 14th 2002 by stutty
Re: Hi you guys!! New member, mad for tunes and love altan!!
We've had this conversation on other threads about other instruments, and I still say that it's not what you play but how you play it. I can understand that some people may have a personal aversion to a particular instrument (in the same way that some people have a personal and irreparable attraction to a specific instrument)...as Kerri apparantly has for PAs. That's her opinion and she's entitled to it (and voices it at just the right pitch of humor and earnestness). But I don't think it's all that productive to bash a whole class of instruments and players (unless it's done completey--or 98.5 percent--in jest--the way we all love to pick on bodhrans or banjos). Sure, the PA player at Mairead' session sounds like the accordion rottweiler from hell, but other PA players handle their instument with sensitivity and true musicality. Those BBC virtual session recordings are a good example.
Stutty, I now know where I want to live. Sessioning with the boys from Danu would be a real blast. I sat in without an instrument at two sessions they played in at the Washington Irish Fest 3 years ago, and they were all stupendous fun. True tune hounds, and always ready with a surprising transition or rousing counterpoint to what everyone else was doing.
# Posted on March 14th 2002 by Will CPT
Re: Hi you guys!! New member, mad for tunes and love altan!!
Picking on banjos I understand, as well as picking on mandolins, zookies, and guitars. But picking on a bodhron? Hmmmmm,,,, Actually wouldn't you tip on a bodhron?? You know,,,, tipper??
Ahem. I'll drift back into my coma now.
# Posted on March 14th 2002 by flyinfiddler
Re: Hi you guys!! New member, mad for tunes and love altan!!
Will, thanks for your comment on this thread. We needed it!
lars
# Posted on March 14th 2002 by lars
Re: Hi you guys!! New member, mad for tunes and love altan!!
All kidding aside, well said Will.
Tiny
# Posted on March 14th 2002 by flyinfiddler
Re: Hi you guys!! New member, mad for tunes and love altan!!
Oops, (blush), Stutty, I forgot about Ciaran! You've got me eating my words now. He's a fine, fine player and has a wonderful attitude to go with it. (Although he does come with 6 other players and they can kick up quite a bit of noise...) Thing is, I just plum forgot that was a piano accordion - I suppose it's same phenomenon as people in Europe forgetting the American tourists who aren't obnoxious and demanding. Gosh... maybe I do approve of the PA *sometimes*. (Although maybe the fact that Ciaran is really cute and generous with the Guiness has something to do with it.)
# Posted on March 15th 2002 by Kerri Brown
Stop Bashing Each Other
Okay, so we've done the rounds on bashing bodhran players, and guitar players, and PA players and just about everyone else.
So here's a suggestion...let's all trade instruments for a month....play something that you've bashed (or thought about bashing...whistle players..grrrr)...IN A SESSION, yep...in a session where you're not known....and then come back and let us all know what went down.....might change a few hard opinions, but it would be really funny.
Even I might do it...
Andy
# Posted on March 15th 2002 by Mcbear365
Re: Hi you guys!! New member, mad for tunes and love altan!!
As a bodhran bashing, guitar bashing fiddler who also plays bodhran and guitar, I think your suggestion is grand, Andy. If I knew of a session that didn't already have a couple guitars and bodhrans duking it out already, I'd go for it.
I think Zina and Will have eloquently pointed out *how* you play is more important that *what* you play. I completely agree, but reserve the right to make accordion jokes and be apalled when bandmates discuss adding a permanent mono-instrumental accordion player to the group. Of course if Canada had a wealth of Ciarán Ó Gealbháins to choose from, I'd rapidly rethink my position. Seems all we have are Wierd Al Yankoviks.
kerri
# Posted on March 15th 2002 by Kerri Brown
A Donegal Piano-Accordionists view.
Hey everybody,i hope no body takes offence at this but its amazing how niave and ignorant some people can be. its allmost like a type of racisment in traditional music.
i'm really still in shock after reading this because what you are doing
mairead is saying that everyone who plays the piano accordion should be shot, thats like saying that all jews are bad and the germans are the mother race, i hear you all thinking that that is a bit strong but in effect that is exactly what mairead is saying.
which is tottaly missing out on the point of traditional music . o.k some are dominant but then again fiddlers can be too along with every other instrument.
Have people forgotten that the point of music is for fun and freindship??? which is also what this web-site is primarily for. its not something that gives people the right to ridicule,insult and exclude people over. and "big-headed"? a big-headed person is someone who thinks themselves better than other people by putting them down.
so isnt that in effect what you are ??
i am sure that any piano accordion player that reads this would be offended even alan kelly whom i know and karan tweed, and allthough i am not familiar with his music all that well, phil cunningham. who gave alot of music to sharon shannon. can we really ALL be that bad ?
If any of you ever get the privalige to meet altan, ask them about the piano accordion players in Donegal because they, best of all, will tell you all about us. dont take the opinion of the ignorant and niave.and while your at it, mention me too. - Martin Tourish (as mentioned above) and they'll tell you all about us.
yours sincerely,
Martin Tourish.
# Posted on March 15th 2002 by martin t
Re: Hi you guys!! New member, mad for tunes and love altan!!
Martin,
I'm sure most people here would agree that the majority of PA players they've played with are extremly accomplished musicians. To tell the truth, I haven't met one IRM/PA player that wasn't simply fantastic!
But you know, there are some instruments in the world that deserve a little poke in the ribs. It's not that I hate piano accordians or banjos, or zooks or bodhrans. Far from it! But you have to admit that the people who play these instruments have already signed an agreement stating that they can 'take a joke'.
I think 'Tune_fanatic' went perhaps a little over the edge, but what can you do? Don't take it too personally.
# Posted on March 15th 2002 by Caoimghgin
Re: Hi you guys!! New member, mad for tunes and love altan!!
Yes, Martin, my first reaction to Mairead's post was that she was using her mouth (or computer keyboard) to do exactly what she was complaining about in this particular piano accordion player. By the time I got to her shotgun comment, I was hoping no one would reply and Mairead would realize that she'd crossed the boundary into unwelcome behavior at The Session.
I also agree that it's a shame we keep seeing posts about what instruments should be excluded at sessions or from Irish music period. Seems like a waste of time to me, and I'm tired of the ugly, uninviting tone it sets here. I hesitated to even weigh in on this thread, but when I did (see March 14 above) it was simply to make the point that how you play should outweigh what you play. And I think most of the people who've taken part in this discussion have said pretty much the same thing. Maybe Mairead will get the point.
Maybe the site would be better off if this thread peterd out through lack of further interest in kicking accordions or any other class of instruments around..... Personally, I've been avoiding it (like the obnoxious drunk at the bar) as much as possible , and enjoying the recent tune postings (like the sounds coming from the circle of musicians in the corner) instead.
# Posted on March 15th 2002 by Will CPT
P.S. As a fiddler, I'm thrilled whenever I get a chance to play with any non-string instrument because of the interesting blends you get in the sound. Squeeze boxes of all kinds--piano accordions, button boxes, concertinas, whatever--make for really fun duets. Jimmy Keane's piano box played alongside Liz Carroll's fiddle was one of my earliest inspirations for getting into this music.
# Posted on March 15th 2002 by Will CPT
Re: Hi you guys!! New member, mad for tunes and love altan!!
If my comments offended I offer an apology. I don't hate the PA, I've just never been in the presence of someone at a session who could play the thing. They may have had it strapped on them, but they were not playing. I've heard recordings of people who can & I like it esp. for Ceili Band styled music.
The holocaust was pure evil - there are no Piano Accordian death-camps & frankly the analogy is not anologous, there's a difference between a figure of speech & millions of dead people. Sure the comment was over the line & you found it offensive, but to compare it to Hitler?
What ever happened to having the piss out of someone, life isn't always roses & lolipops. Every player takes their share of grief for their chosen instrument, it's what makes the world spin.
# Posted on March 15th 2002 by Mad Baloney
Re: Hi you guys!! New member, mad for tunes and love altan!!
Just to say I think Martin and Will comments should definetily mark the end of this thread.
Should'n they?
Remember. Ceol agus craic.
Toni
# Posted on March 15th 2002 by Toni Ribas
Re: Hi you guys!! New member, mad for tunes and love altan!!
Just wanted to add the fantastic Ger Maloney (from Limerick, living in Carlow) and Michael Tennesson (Leeds) to this discussion. Sound lads, and deadly P.A. players
# Posted on March 19th 2002 by fidleir
Michael Tennyson's
I've got a transcription of one of Michael Tennyson's tunes in the tune archives, off Verena Commins and Julie Langan's album Fonnchaoi. It's a beautiful tune.
Zina
# Posted on March 19th 2002 by Zina Lee
Piano Accordions
London seems to be a good place for piano accordions. Jimmy Keane, who now lives in Chicago, was born in London, and he's a hell of a player, and composer of some good tunes. Karen Tweed comes from the London area. I am also personally acquainted with two very accomplished piano accordion players in London. One of them plays a 96-bass instrument, but all the bass buttons are broken, so there is no danger of over-using them.
I should like to point out to Mairead, with all due respect, that Jacky Daly plays button accordion, and I have never heard him play anything else. Perhaps the Donegal PA players you mention are influenced by the Scottish style of playing (Jimmy Shand, Phil Cunningham), which tends to involve full chordal 'oom-pah'-style accompaniment (which the instrument was primarily designed for) and is not suited to most Irish sessions.
# Posted on March 20th 2002 by granama
Mairead again. the bringer of bad news it seems...
hey guys.
"it is the foul mouthed one" striking again
thanks for letting me know that im not the only one who dislikes p.accordions but just to elaborate on the things that i have said which got some of your backs up -one of you in particular.
I wasn't generalising between 'ALL' P.A players out there, as I stated, all the things I said were based and informed on my personal opinion of those I met. All events were based on experience. A lot of people here have taken my views way too personally. Lighten up guys! like 'mad baloney' said. every instrument gets criticised once in a while. no need for everyone to blow up over the piano accordion being criticised.
martin. i said any piano accordion players I HAVE MET. not ALL piano accordion players. i think you read that wrongly. u should check it again.
how can u compare one person's dislike of a p.a to a entire nation's dislike of the jews? u r going way too much overboard here. cool down!
mad baloney is right again. there are no piano accordion death camps. well, none that i have heard of but maybe that is because i live in donegal. tell me if you have heard of any.
im sorry if i offended anybody but stop taking everything so seriously. this is my PERSONAL opinion and yours may be totally different.
and yes, agreeing with Will too, i love playing with instruments other than strings. i love concertina playing. it is enthralling and button accordions too. but i have never and i dont know if i will ever like the piano accordion. i doubt it.
just like you said martin. music is for 'fun' and 'friendship' and therefore shouldnt be taken so seriously. i didnt mean any harm. i was just expressing MY OPINION like i have said so many times already.
why am i being big headed? i dont understand that point.
so i apologise entirely if i caused any offence and maybe this conversation should be ended if people are going to take music so seriously.
thanks again you guys,
mairead
# Posted on March 20th 2002 by Tune_fanatic
Re: Hi you guys!! New member, mad for tunes and love altan!!
Welcome back Mairead. I think some of us read your first post and missed the sense of humor you intended. It came across pretty serious and strong. And you did suggest banning "all those damned piano accordion players." That's harsh for a site on Irish music. Stating your opinion is one thing, but suggesting putting a shot gun to PA players strikes me as over the top.
I don't mean to preach, but...oh what the hell. Remember that "tone" is a hard thing to convey online. That's why so many of us use the little smiley faces and *grin* and *snicker* add-ons--to make sure no one takes us too seriously. There are plenty of funny, light-hearted discussions on this site, and a wide range of sensibilities when it comes to humor. But we're all fairly careful and thoughtful about what we write--assuming we're sober at the time
--because you never know who's reading this stuff, and it could be on display here for a long time. A good rule of thumb is to not say anything you wouldn't say to someone face to face.
I hope you don't write us off as a bunch of overly sensitive prudes (wait till you get to know Zina and Brad!). I for one would like to hear more about sessions in Donegal. Maybe start with some of the positive, fun aspects. Do you ever go to Mairead and Dermot's (Altan's) pub for sessions?
Will
# Posted on March 20th 2002 by Will CPT
Re: Hi you guys!! New member, mad for tunes and love altan!!
What Will said.
If you intend something to be subtly humourous, you should make liberal use of smiley faces. You'll know this if you've spent any time subscribed to email discussion lists
See.
Mairead, go back and read what you wrote. There is nothing there to indicate that you meant what you wrote to be taken lightheartedly.
That said, Mairtin certainly over-reacted and I'm hereby invoking Godwin's Law:
http://www.godwinslaw.com/
This thread is over.
# Posted on March 20th 2002 by Jeremy