Ok, I started with a very inexpensive harp. After all, I didn't know if I'd like it or if I'd stick with it. Now that I've gotten the training wheels off (so to speak), I've learned the limitations of the "starter" model and I've started shopping for an upgrade.
Now, my "cheap" harp was a couple of hundred bucks.
I can get a 10-year old custom-made harp with a few dings but excellent tone for about a thousand (and I can probably afford it soon). If I miss this particular opportunity, there's always a fairly good used harp available for a fairly reasonable price.
Or I can save my pennies for a $2-3K new custom-made harp crafted exactly as I want it. Advantages? Greater control of materials, tone, break-in, plus a longer use-life.
Or I can save my pennies for a $2-3K new factory-made harp (not my favorite option, because none of the big-name makers has exactly the features I want).
So what do I do? If I spend the grand on the used harp, I'm not going to be able to upgrade again for a few years. If the flaws that now seem minor get more irritating/worsen over time, I'll be stuck. However, it will be a quicker route.
But if I save for the custom job I want, I won't be able to upgrade for at least a year.
If you're serious about your music, I mean SERIOUS, then wait out the list. A year is nothing when you're talking about a quality instrument you will have all your life.
Some pipers wait 7-10 years or more for their dream instrument and pay $7K-$15K USD at delivery time. They do it because they know what they want and will do what they can in the mean time until they take delivery of the new instrument.
What I've learned about instruments in 35 years of playing is penny wise is dollar foolish. Examples- my penny wise guitar purchased for $165 25 years ago is worth about
$100 now. A D28 Martin purchased for $800-1000
25 years ago is now 3-4000 dollars if in good condition. Had I shot the moon and bought the Martin then, I could have had the benefit of a quality instrument that would have demanded the best of me in technique and development, rather than "make-do" and try to compensate on an inferior instrument, and...had an investment that appreciates in time. It would cost me very little or not at all to keep it.
A good friend of mine 25 years ago purchased an
f-model gibson mandolin for $1000. At the time
I thought it was an extravagant purchase, knowing he wasn't exactly flush. I watched him rise to the level of musicianship the instrument was capable of taking him, and he's had a lot of fun doing it, playing competently with some pretty darn good musicians, and played a lot of fun gigs over the years. He's now playing a Lawrence Smart A-model mando, which he purchased about 3 years ago for 2800 bucks. I just ordered Lawrence Smart to build me one, too, and the price is now about 4000 dollars. He has passed the Gibson on to his son. I think the Gibson would sell for around 4000 dollars now, if he needed to liquidate. When you look at it in a long term perspective, I think you're way ahead both financially and artistically to stretch yourself and get that fine instrument. Quality instruments don't lose value, but appreciate in value, and while that's happening, think of what that instrument will give you while it's in your stewardship!
I tend to agree when it comes to strings. Vintage banjos from the golden era just have something about them which you don't get from new. I use new to mess up with pick-ups & things rather than touch the old.
try waiting for one of geoff wooff's uillean pipe sets, 15 years and counting. And if I were younger I'd try and get on the list.
Seriously, depends on how much of an instant gratification person you are. As my mother used to say "wait for what you want" ...hmm sounds like a hi-jacked Stepehn Stills lyric.
If the used harp is not what you want you will be dissatisfied, maybe not at first but sooner or later. If you have something to play now that you can tolerate, I would definitely go for the custom harp that will be just what you want. I had a decent Petersen bouzouki that kept my playing and happy enough while I waited 4 years for my custom Stephen Owsley Smith bouzouki. It was even better than what I expected. It has stopped my Instrument Acquisition Syndrome, at least for bouzoukis.
I am absolutely in agreement with the general consensus here. Wait for the good stuff.
What make of harp are you considering, out of curiosity? I play harp too so I was just wondering.
The cheap one you have now can be used to rent out to a student further down the line when you are so good that you are teaching. Or it can be your travel or knock-around harp which can get a little bumped up and you won't mind. But now you are ready for quality. And in 5 years, you won't need to upgrade, you'll have this one for a lifetime.
Obviously there are always financial limits to what a person can spend, but definitely save and wait for the most instrument you can afford. Every time I sit down and play my Taylor guitar or my recently acquired custom Phil Crump bouzouki, I am so happy that I waited and paid the extra cost. The quality of sound and the great playability are worth being patient for. And like John said above, buying a great instrument it is a great cure for IAS. Buying significantly below what you want just leaves you wanting a better one not long after you get it.
Definitly go for the custom made one. When i bought my first harp, i was using a crappy hired one. I was trying out various models of starfish harps (ballachulish scotland) and was originally going to go for one of their mid range harps which go to down to a bass E. On the of chance i decided might as well try one of the better ones which go to C, seeing as I'm in the workshop, loved it so much and ended up splashing out alot more on that better one. SUCH a good desicion as if i'd gone with the mid ranged one I would have had to upgrade in a few years time.
You'll find that by having a better harp you'll want to play more too, because the sound will be so much better.
Go for it even if theres a wait, it'll make you more excited when you get it and it'll definitly be worth it! I've just ordered a new one, still starfish, exactly the same model (glencoe) but different wood and with the new lever system they're bringing out. I have a 6month wait for it now but it'll DEFINITLY be worth it. Just be having the lift of a new instument I'll know I'll play even more than I do right now.
One question back to you though....do i sell the one i have just now to help pay for the new one? Or do i keep it, and use it to help teach, and in case any emergencies arrive? Also theres the sentmental value of my first harp. But i reckon when i get the new one, the olf one wont et played much. also if i keep it, i'll have to raise at least an additional £1500 to get the new one. descions desicions descions!
I have to agree on the comments related to Uilleann pipes, if you want to play and don't want to wait at least a year, and up to 10+ years for a set, a used set is about your only option. You had better be checking out the ads on Chiff and Fipple, eBay, bagpiper.com, and ready to get on a plane and show up with cash...
hmm, yeah, I guess I'd better wait. The $1K harp is that price for a reason (a new one of that model is $2.5K), and I probably won't be happy with the result.
Rach, my mom wants my harp when I upgrade, so I won't be keeping or selling. I've heard really good things about Starfish harps. How many strings? I have a 22 now and want to go up to 32. More range would be great, but the larger harps are too heavy and won't fit in my Mini.
I'm thinking of going with a Heartland,Andee, though I'm also considering Josephus, Webster, and a few others.
I_FeI, your post reminds me of a favorite prayer: "Lord, give me patience, NOW!!!"
Michael E - I saw some of your pix on another site - nice clicking, mate.
This is very much the case with flutes, that if you go for cheap, it will sound rank. but going the other way is certainly beyond my budget. Ultimately I'll go for a Rudall Carte wooden Boehm, but that won't be out of this month's paycheque.
I definitely agree to buy as much instrument as you can possibly afford. I know how frustrating it can be when you start to outgrow your instrument, but you don't want to rush into something better than you'll outgrow again soon.
Haprs, like any other instruments, are a very personal thing. Work out exactly what you want; if it means you have to wait a while, it will definitely be worth it in the end.
(Side note: Be warned that you might eventually discover that one harp is not enough I started on a 22 nylon strung, and then bought a slightly bigger 30 nylon strung. However rather than selling the 22 string I had it converted to wire, and it's now my favourite harp
I have a 34 gut strung starfish glencoe. It goes down to C 2octaves below middle C. I have to say having those 2 extra strings makes ALOT of difference, not only because, well its 2 extra bass strings but it means that the soundboard is therefore longer and deeper, and it makes a big difference to the sound.
I have a 34 string Pilgrim harp , purchased new ,14 years ago. I was advised at the time to spend about £1000.00 , which would buy me an instrument with which I would be happy for a long time. It was great advice, and the harp has been a joy to play.My daughter took it to the local Feis and it still compares well with other harps.
They make great harps (pilgrim), and they last a long time too. The school i went to had them, and although my own has folk/light gauge strings and the pilrgims had concert/heavy gauge, i really enjoyed playing them as they made my fingers so strong and made me have a great technique!
New vs. Used instruments
New vs. Used instruments
Ok, I started with a very inexpensive harp. After all, I didn't know if I'd like it or if I'd stick with it. Now that I've gotten the training wheels off (so to speak), I've learned the limitations of the "starter" model and I've started shopping for an upgrade.
Now, my "cheap" harp was a couple of hundred bucks.
I can get a 10-year old custom-made harp with a few dings but excellent tone for about a thousand (and I can probably afford it soon). If I miss this particular opportunity, there's always a fairly good used harp available for a fairly reasonable price.
Or I can save my pennies for a $2-3K new custom-made harp crafted exactly as I want it. Advantages? Greater control of materials, tone, break-in, plus a longer use-life.
Or I can save my pennies for a $2-3K new factory-made harp (not my favorite option, because none of the big-name makers has exactly the features I want).
So what do I do? If I spend the grand on the used harp, I'm not going to be able to upgrade again for a few years. If the flaws that now seem minor get more irritating/worsen over time, I'll be stuck. However, it will be a quicker route.
But if I save for the custom job I want, I won't be able to upgrade for at least a year.
Any advice?
# Posted on July 30th 2004 by pakooper
Re: New vs. Used instruments
If you're serious about your music, I mean SERIOUS, then wait out the list. A year is nothing when you're talking about a quality instrument you will have all your life.
Some pipers wait 7-10 years or more for their dream instrument and pay $7K-$15K USD at delivery time. They do it because they know what they want and will do what they can in the mean time until they take delivery of the new instrument.
# Posted on July 30th 2004 by Hanley
Re: New vs. Used instruments
What I've learned about instruments in 35 years of playing is penny wise is dollar foolish. Examples- my penny wise guitar purchased for $165 25 years ago is worth about
$100 now. A D28 Martin purchased for $800-1000
25 years ago is now 3-4000 dollars if in good condition. Had I shot the moon and bought the Martin then, I could have had the benefit of a quality instrument that would have demanded the best of me in technique and development, rather than "make-do" and try to compensate on an inferior instrument, and...had an investment that appreciates in time. It would cost me very little or not at all to keep it.
A good friend of mine 25 years ago purchased an
f-model gibson mandolin for $1000. At the time
I thought it was an extravagant purchase, knowing he wasn't exactly flush. I watched him rise to the level of musicianship the instrument was capable of taking him, and he's had a lot of fun doing it, playing competently with some pretty darn good musicians, and played a lot of fun gigs over the years. He's now playing a Lawrence Smart A-model mando, which he purchased about 3 years ago for 2800 bucks. I just ordered Lawrence Smart to build me one, too, and the price is now about 4000 dollars. He has passed the Gibson on to his son. I think the Gibson would sell for around 4000 dollars now, if he needed to liquidate. When you look at it in a long term perspective, I think you're way ahead both financially and artistically to stretch yourself and get that fine instrument. Quality instruments don't lose value, but appreciate in value, and while that's happening, think of what that instrument will give you while it's in your stewardship!
# Posted on July 30th 2004 by rainog
Re: New vs. Used instruments
I tend to agree when it comes to strings. Vintage banjos from the golden era just have something about them which you don't get from new. I use new to mess up with pick-ups & things rather than touch the old.
# Posted on July 30th 2004 by paul.slater
Re: New vs. Used instruments
try waiting for one of geoff wooff's uillean pipe sets, 15 years and counting. And if I were younger I'd try and get on the list.
Seriously, depends on how much of an instant gratification person you are. As my mother used to say "wait for what you want" ...hmm sounds like a hi-jacked Stepehn Stills lyric.
# Posted on July 30th 2004 by I_Fel
Re: New vs. Used instruments
If the used harp is not what you want you will be dissatisfied, maybe not at first but sooner or later. If you have something to play now that you can tolerate, I would definitely go for the custom harp that will be just what you want. I had a decent Petersen bouzouki that kept my playing and happy enough while I waited 4 years for my custom Stephen Owsley Smith bouzouki. It was even better than what I expected. It has stopped my Instrument Acquisition Syndrome, at least for bouzoukis.
# Posted on July 30th 2004 by John Conoboy
Re: New vs. Used instruments
I am absolutely in agreement with the general consensus here. Wait for the good stuff.
What make of harp are you considering, out of curiosity? I play harp too so I was just wondering.
The cheap one you have now can be used to rent out to a student further down the line when you are so good that you are teaching. Or it can be your travel or knock-around harp which can get a little bumped up and you won't mind. But now you are ready for quality. And in 5 years, you won't need to upgrade, you'll have this one for a lifetime.
# Posted on July 30th 2004 by Andee
Re: New vs. Used instruments
I'll add my voice to the consensus above.
Obviously there are always financial limits to what a person can spend, but definitely save and wait for the most instrument you can afford. Every time I sit down and play my Taylor guitar or my recently acquired custom Phil Crump bouzouki, I am so happy that I waited and paid the extra cost. The quality of sound and the great playability are worth being patient for. And like John said above, buying a great instrument it is a great cure for IAS. Buying significantly below what you want just leaves you wanting a better one not long after you get it.
# Posted on July 30th 2004 by rob zouk
Re: New vs. Used instruments
Definitly go for the custom made one. When i bought my first harp, i was using a crappy hired one. I was trying out various models of starfish harps (ballachulish scotland) and was originally going to go for one of their mid range harps which go to down to a bass E. On the of chance i decided might as well try one of the better ones which go to C, seeing as I'm in the workshop, loved it so much and ended up splashing out alot more on that better one. SUCH a good desicion as if i'd gone with the mid ranged one I would have had to upgrade in a few years time.
You'll find that by having a better harp you'll want to play more too, because the sound will be so much better.
Go for it even if theres a wait, it'll make you more excited when you get it and it'll definitly be worth it! I've just ordered a new one, still starfish, exactly the same model (glencoe) but different wood and with the new lever system they're bringing out. I have a 6month wait for it now but it'll DEFINITLY be worth it. Just be having the lift of a new instument I'll know I'll play even more than I do right now.
One question back to you though....do i sell the one i have just now to help pay for the new one? Or do i keep it, and use it to help teach, and in case any emergencies arrive? Also theres the sentmental value of my first harp. But i reckon when i get the new one, the olf one wont et played much. also if i keep it, i'll have to raise at least an additional £1500 to get the new one. descions desicions descions!
# Posted on July 30th 2004 by RacH
Re: New vs. Used instruments
I have to agree on the comments related to Uilleann pipes, if you want to play and don't want to wait at least a year, and up to 10+ years for a set, a used set is about your only option. You had better be checking out the ads on Chiff and Fipple, eBay, bagpiper.com, and ready to get on a plane and show up with cash...
# Posted on July 31st 2004 by Michael Eskin
Re: New vs. Used instruments
hmm, yeah, I guess I'd better wait. The $1K harp is that price for a reason (a new one of that model is $2.5K), and I probably won't be happy with the result.
Rach, my mom wants my harp when I upgrade, so I won't be keeping or selling. I've heard really good things about Starfish harps. How many strings? I have a 22 now and want to go up to 32. More range would be great, but the larger harps are too heavy and won't fit in my Mini.
I'm thinking of going with a Heartland,Andee, though I'm also considering Josephus, Webster, and a few others.
I_FeI, your post reminds me of a favorite prayer: "Lord, give me patience, NOW!!!"
# Posted on July 31st 2004 by pakooper
Re: New vs. Used instruments
Michael E - I saw some of your pix on another site - nice clicking, mate.
This is very much the case with flutes, that if you go for cheap, it will sound rank. but going the other way is certainly beyond my budget. Ultimately I'll go for a Rudall Carte wooden Boehm, but that won't be out of this month's paycheque.
# Posted on July 31st 2004 by Rudall the time
Re: New vs. Used instruments
I definitely agree to buy as much instrument as you can possibly afford. I know how frustrating it can be when you start to outgrow your instrument, but you don't want to rush into something better than you'll outgrow again soon.
I started on a 22 nylon strung, and then bought a slightly bigger 30 nylon strung. However rather than selling the 22 string I had it converted to wire, and it's now my favourite harp 
Haprs, like any other instruments, are a very personal thing. Work out exactly what you want; if it means you have to wait a while, it will definitely be worth it in the end.
(Side note: Be warned that you might eventually discover that one harp is not enough
Best of luck with your search
Cheers
Morgana
# Posted on July 31st 2004 by Ptollemy
Re: New vs. Used instruments
I have a 34 gut strung starfish glencoe. It goes down to C 2octaves below middle C. I have to say having those 2 extra strings makes ALOT of difference, not only because, well its 2 extra bass strings but it means that the soundboard is therefore longer and deeper, and it makes a big difference to the sound.
# Posted on August 2nd 2004 by RacH
Re: New vs. Used instruments
I have a 34 string Pilgrim harp , purchased new ,14 years ago. I was advised at the time to spend about £1000.00 , which would buy me an instrument with which I would be happy for a long time. It was great advice, and the harp has been a joy to play.My daughter took it to the local Feis and it still compares well with other harps.
# Posted on August 3rd 2004 by gummidge
Re: New vs. Used instruments
They make great harps (pilgrim), and they last a long time too. The school i went to had them, and although my own has folk/light gauge strings and the pilrgims had concert/heavy gauge, i really enjoyed playing them as they made my fingers so strong and made me have a great technique!
# Posted on August 3rd 2004 by RacH