After a break of many years, I started playing my banjo again eighteen months or so ago. I started playing with a couple of friends and we have a fairly regular session on a Thursday nite. The fiddler I play with is a very good player, comes from a Manchester fiddle dynasty and has been playing since he was knee high to a grasshopper.
Because he is such a good player, I have put in a lot of practise and a lot of effort into learning new tunes to try and keep up as best I can. I do get quite wound up before the session as I know I will always be struggling to keep up and to incorporate new tunes. This is not down to the fiddler as he is a great guy and is happy to play at whatever level dictates.
Anyway, I got a bit fed up recently and I haven’t played for the last month, just couldn’t be bothered with it. I’ll have a go again this Thursday and hopefully I will be back on the road to recovery and all will be well.
Do any of you guys out there get pissed off with it from time to time and just give it a break? Do you feel pressure to perform really well before a session?
Ohhhh Yeah! Recently I was sitting at my laptop recording a bunch of new tunes I was practicing. I thought they sounded great until I listened to the recordings... I seem to recall throwing my bow to the ground while yelling "I suck...I can't believe how bad I suck!", seriously. I came back to the tunes a day later and they sound better...or maybe I just had an attitude adjustment in the meantime. Hahah! I have to work so hard not to be the John McEnroe of Fiddle, bows can get expensive and the music is about FUN, not PRESSURE right?
Quite often, I play better at sessions when I haven't been practising. I'm much more relxaed. Sometimes, I'll spend a few days working on new tunes and, when the time comes, everything turns to sh-te. Other times, I can play a tune perfectly without having touched it for months. A rest now and again does no harm.
Bribanjo, Not sure what you mean by the fiddle is IN...huh? But my post was definitely tongue-in-cheek... we all get frustrated, but like any art stepping back for a short while seems to put things in perspective.
Ahhhhh! Thanks for the clarification, I've never heard that expression I was really only referring to the fact that JM used to smash his racket on the ground. That's quite hilarious, you're clever, sorry I didn't get it. -Mike
LOL Johnny J -- I was just wondering the exact same thing and lo, there you'd already said it...Conrad, I was going to needle you a bit more, but not to poke my nose in where nationalities are a consideration...
To get back to Conrad's original point, yes, absolutely I sometimes get all self-intimidated when I play with really, really good musicians, especially if they're professionals. I think one of the worst aspects of this unease is when I wonder whether they're tolerating my playing, just to be nice, or if they genuinely like it. But in the end, I figure they would find some way to let me know that I'm out of my league; thus far, while I haven't gotten any invitations to appear on their next CD or accompany them on tour, what I hear is "Come back any time" or "Hope we do this again soon" -- so I take 'em at their word. That's about all you can do, right?
Perspective is a funny thing, though, innit. Over the past year, I've been playing occasionally as part of a trio, and one of my colleagues is a very experienced (25 years-plus) contra dance musician who's been exploring Irish/Celtic music more in depth the past few years. During one of our rehearsals, we were talking about how we were going to play a particular set of tunes, and she said, "I just feel like I'm holding you guys back." Part of me was stunned to hear that and part of me was secretly pleased -- gee, do I come off _that_ advanced? Needless to say, my other colleague and I reassured her that she was doing just fine.
And then the other day, I was jamming with Matt and Shannon Heaton, who are not only excellent musicians but damn nice people, period. During a break, Matt and I got to chatting idly about our guitars, and he kinda frowned and said that he thought his Martin was sounding "off." Now, for the previous half-hour or so, I had been listening to his superlative accompaniment...sure sounded fine to me!
But yeah, I think sometimes you do need to take a break from the instrument, maybe music altogether, for a short while. That's why I have a lot of admiration for people who make their living playing music -- whatever break you take had better be short-lived, or you don't pay the rent.
I tend to think that a bit of distance can be a good thing. Sometimes I practice and learn (or think I've learned) a tune; rush out and play it at a session, and make a complete balls up of it. I then get annoyed with myself, the tune, my instrument, the world in general, and don't even think about the tune for another week or so. Then I'll be sitting at a session, playing something, and it'll occur to me to stick that tune on the end and it'll come out fine (or fine-ish).
Why is that?
Classical musicians who practice five hours a day, or whatever, don't stop practicing a week before a performance, do they?
Swapping instruments for a while can definitely let you hear your number one instrument afresh when you pick it up again...
On the "Now I've Retired ..." thread I recommended that a retired person should have some other interest or activity completely separate from their music. One reason for this is as Ottery has said - to give the music parts of the brain an opportunity to subconsciously work on and organise what has been learnt.
I put the zen/buddhism techniques through a Jesus filter and got some good insights into why I play. Helps to look at the book every now and then to reinforce.
I'm a classical player and teacher, and I also get fed up with my classical practice now and then. At those times I tend to do more fiddle, and just recently I've taken up whistle, so I have plenty of variety in my musical/fun pursuits. I definitely think we all get too serious sometimes, and need to back off being our own slave-driver. At least if we're workaholic type A people. I really credit the session musicians I play with, and some of you at thesession.org, for encouraging me to relax and go with the flow, and just enjoy whats going on.
"Practice":
A noise Bren makes on his mandolin when he is inviting Mrs Bren to come in within 30 seconds and remind him about all the jobs needing done around the house "seeing as he's doing nothing"
When she's playing guitar or watching the detectives on the tv I keep noise to a minimum. But when I'm playing mandolin she starts hoovering, or switches the tv on, or on a good day comes in with a cup of tea and stands there till I stop in mid tune and take it from her, cos there's no room on the table.
I can practise sometimes and watch the TV at the same time but this doesn't always please my other half who says she can't concentrate on the TV.
However, if she's practising, she says "I find that I can listen to the TV and practise at the same time"
There always seems to be a different rule.
Background: the Kenny Werner book "Effortless Mastery" includes a CD with some meditations on it. I found them helpful but didn't like the buddhist/zen theology hanging on them.
Werner's book deals with how to quiet/silence the critical voice that we listen to: "you stink", "you'll never learn this", "I don't deserve to..." The critical voice can prevent the musician from practicing, reaching for the next level, turns playing from fun to drudgery.
In Werner's world, the release from the critical voice is meditation and finding the answer in one's own self.
In my world, I deal with the critical voice by reminding myself of what Jesus thinks of me, and its result is the same. It's just not coming from me, it's an outside source. That's the filter.
I agree with what Werner is saying, but disagree with the source of the relief, that's all.
Just to show that this isn't a gender-based issue - Bren/Showaddy, every single %$#$% time I pick up a guitar, Him Indoors does exactly the same thing.
Which is twice as annoying because the old geetar earns $$$ at gigs which involve both of us, so you'd think the need to practice would be understood! But no, guitar = noodling = "you've got nothing to do".
Vague threats about taking guitar and car and church hall keys and clearing off to get a bit of peace sort-of got the point across. Harrumph 8>)
Whereas if you just sat with your feet up watching telly, he'd probably leave you alone. I don't know, I really don't....
My dad was the same. As a teenager I could sit - lay - in my room for hours doing buggerall, then as soon as I picked up a guitar, he would appear at the door with a job that was needing done.
PRECTISE AND SELF INFLICTED PRESSURE
PRECTISE AND SELF INFLICTED PRESSURE
After a break of many years, I started playing my banjo again eighteen months or so ago. I started playing with a couple of friends and we have a fairly regular session on a Thursday nite. The fiddler I play with is a very good player, comes from a Manchester fiddle dynasty and has been playing since he was knee high to a grasshopper.
Because he is such a good player, I have put in a lot of practise and a lot of effort into learning new tunes to try and keep up as best I can. I do get quite wound up before the session as I know I will always be struggling to keep up and to incorporate new tunes. This is not down to the fiddler as he is a great guy and is happy to play at whatever level dictates.
Anyway, I got a bit fed up recently and I haven’t played for the last month, just couldn’t be bothered with it. I’ll have a go again this Thursday and hopefully I will be back on the road to recovery and all will be well.
Do any of you guys out there get pissed off with it from time to time and just give it a break? Do you feel pressure to perform really well before a session?
Conrad
# Posted on July 27th 2004 by darnoc
Re: PRECTISE AND SELF INFLICTED PRESSURE
Ohhhh Yeah! Recently I was sitting at my laptop recording a bunch of new tunes I was practicing. I thought they sounded great until I listened to the recordings... I seem to recall throwing my bow to the ground while yelling "I suck...I can't believe how bad I suck!", seriously. I came back to the tunes a day later and they sound better...or maybe I just had an attitude adjustment in the meantime. Hahah! I have to work so hard not to be the John McEnroe of Fiddle, bows can get expensive and the music is about FUN, not PRESSURE right?
# Posted on July 27th 2004 by c_ya
Re: PRECTISE AND SELF INFLICTED PRESSURE
Quite often, I play better at sessions when I haven't been practising. I'm much more relxaed. Sometimes, I'll spend a few days working on new tunes and, when the time comes, everything turns to sh-te. Other times, I can play a tune perfectly without having touched it for months. A rest now and again does no harm.
# Posted on July 27th 2004 by Johnny Jay
Re: PRECTISE AND SELF INFLICTED PRESSURE
Bribanjo, Not sure what you mean by the fiddle is IN...huh? But my post was definitely tongue-in-cheek... we all get frustrated, but like any art stepping back for a short while seems to put things in perspective.
# Posted on July 27th 2004 by c_ya
Re: PRECTISE AND SELF INFLICTED PRESSURE
The fiddle probably is. It's the fingers that aren't.
# Posted on July 27th 2004 by Johnny Jay
Re: PRECTISE AND SELF INFLICTED PRESSURE
I can even remember Fred Perry.
# Posted on July 27th 2004 by Johnny Jay
Re: PRECTISE AND SELF INFLICTED PRESSURE
Ahhhhh! Thanks for the clarification, I've never heard that expression
I was really only referring to the fact that JM used to smash his racket on the ground. That's quite hilarious, you're clever, sorry I didn't get it. -Mike
# Posted on July 27th 2004 by c_ya
Re: PRECTISE AND SELF INFLICTED PRESSURE
Have you got a cousin in Manchester, Bri? Initials PP, perhaps?
# Posted on July 27th 2004 by Johnny Jay
Re: PRECTISE AND SELF INFLICTED PRESSURE
By the way...I'm Canadian eh!. We're slower, and we're friendly.
# Posted on July 27th 2004 by c_ya
Re: PRECTISE AND SELF INFLICTED PRESSURE
LOL Johnny J -- I was just wondering the exact same thing and lo, there you'd already said it...Conrad, I was going to needle you a bit more, but not to poke my nose in where nationalities are a consideration...
# Posted on July 27th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: PRECTISE AND SELF INFLICTED PRESSURE
I love this.
# Posted on July 27th 2004 by showaddydadito
Re: PRECTISE AND SELF INFLICTED PRESSURE
To get back to Conrad's original point, yes, absolutely I sometimes get all self-intimidated when I play with really, really good musicians, especially if they're professionals. I think one of the worst aspects of this unease is when I wonder whether they're tolerating my playing, just to be nice, or if they genuinely like it. But in the end, I figure they would find some way to let me know that I'm out of my league; thus far, while I haven't gotten any invitations to appear on their next CD or accompany them on tour, what I hear is "Come back any time" or "Hope we do this again soon" -- so I take 'em at their word. That's about all you can do, right?
Perspective is a funny thing, though, innit. Over the past year, I've been playing occasionally as part of a trio, and one of my colleagues is a very experienced (25 years-plus) contra dance musician who's been exploring Irish/Celtic music more in depth the past few years. During one of our rehearsals, we were talking about how we were going to play a particular set of tunes, and she said, "I just feel like I'm holding you guys back." Part of me was stunned to hear that and part of me was secretly pleased -- gee, do I come off _that_ advanced? Needless to say, my other colleague and I reassured her that she was doing just fine.
And then the other day, I was jamming with Matt and Shannon Heaton, who are not only excellent musicians but damn nice people, period. During a break, Matt and I got to chatting idly about our guitars, and he kinda frowned and said that he thought his Martin was sounding "off." Now, for the previous half-hour or so, I had been listening to his superlative accompaniment...sure sounded fine to me!
But yeah, I think sometimes you do need to take a break from the instrument, maybe music altogether, for a short while. That's why I have a lot of admiration for people who make their living playing music -- whatever break you take had better be short-lived, or you don't pay the rent.
# Posted on July 27th 2004 by sts
Re: PRECTISE AND SELF INFLICTED PRESSURE
I tend to think that a bit of distance can be a good thing. Sometimes I practice and learn (or think I've learned) a tune; rush out and play it at a session, and make a complete balls up of it. I then get annoyed with myself, the tune, my instrument, the world in general, and don't even think about the tune for another week or so. Then I'll be sitting at a session, playing something, and it'll occur to me to stick that tune on the end and it'll come out fine (or fine-ish).
Why is that?
Classical musicians who practice five hours a day, or whatever, don't stop practicing a week before a performance, do they?
Swapping instruments for a while can definitely let you hear your number one instrument afresh when you pick it up again...
# Posted on July 27th 2004 by Ottery
Re: PRECTISE AND SELF INFLICTED PRESSURE
"Classical musicians who practice five hours a day, or whatever, don't stop practicing a week before a performance, do they?"
I've known them to do so, or at least, stop concentrating on it so much.
# Posted on July 27th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: PRECTISE AND SELF INFLICTED PRESSURE
... really? Maybe you do just need to give your mind a bit of space to file things in the right places, once you've initially learned something...
# Posted on July 27th 2004 by Ottery
Re: PRECTISE AND SELF INFLICTED PRESSURE
On the "Now I've Retired ..." thread I recommended that a retired person should have some other interest or activity completely separate from their music. One reason for this is as Ottery has said - to give the music parts of the brain an opportunity to subconsciously work on and organise what has been learnt.
Trevor
# Posted on July 27th 2004 by Trevor Jennings
Re: PRECTISE AND SELF INFLICTED PRESSURE
I found this book to be of help:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/156224003X/qid=1090961497/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_1/103-2824503-3727039
I put the zen/buddhism techniques through a Jesus filter and got some good insights into why I play. Helps to look at the book every now and then to reinforce.
# Posted on July 27th 2004 by mconners
Re: PRECTISE AND SELF INFLICTED PRESSURE
A Jesus filter? Is that like reverse osmosis?
# Posted on July 27th 2004 by Gzeg
Re: PRECTISE AND SELF INFLICTED PRESSURE
I'm a classical player and teacher, and I also get fed up with my classical practice now and then. At those times I tend to do more fiddle, and just recently I've taken up whistle, so I have plenty of variety in my musical/fun pursuits. I definitely think we all get too serious sometimes, and need to back off being our own slave-driver. At least if we're workaholic type A people. I really credit the session musicians I play with, and some of you at thesession.org, for encouraging me to relax and go with the flow, and just enjoy whats going on.
Thanks!
# Posted on July 27th 2004 by fiddlefingers
Re: PRECTISE AND SELF INFLICTED PRESSURE
Bribanjo, what's this thing you call... "irony"?
# Posted on July 27th 2004 by Dr. Dow
Re: PRECTISE AND SELF INFLICTED PRESSURE
Isn't it what you do to your shirts after washy and before weary?
# Posted on July 27th 2004 by showaddydadito
Re: PRECTISE AND SELF INFLICTED PRESSURE
then what's this thing you call "practise"?
# Posted on July 27th 2004 by Bren
Re: PRECTISE AND SELF INFLICTED PRESSURE
Do you mean "Prectise", Bren? That's practice with a Kelvinside, Morningside or Hillhead accent.
# Posted on July 27th 2004 by Johnny Jay
Re: PRECTISE AND SELF INFLICTED PRESSURE
"Practice":
A noise Bren makes on his mandolin when he is inviting Mrs Bren to come in within 30 seconds and remind him about all the jobs needing done around the house "seeing as he's doing nothing"
# Posted on July 27th 2004 by Bren
Re: PRECTISE AND SELF INFLICTED PRESSURE
Hey I get that from Mrs Dave too!
When she's playing guitar or watching the detectives on the tv I keep noise to a minimum. But when I'm playing mandolin she starts hoovering, or switches the tv on, or on a good day comes in with a cup of tea and stands there till I stop in mid tune and take it from her, cos there's no room on the table.
Ah - happy days!
# Posted on July 27th 2004 by showaddydadito
Re: PRECTISE AND SELF INFLICTED PRESSURE
I can practise sometimes and watch the TV at the same time but this doesn't always please my other half who says she can't concentrate on the TV.
However, if she's practising, she says "I find that I can listen to the TV and practise at the same time"
There always seems to be a different rule.
# Posted on July 27th 2004 by Johnny Jay
Re: PRECTISE AND SELF INFLICTED PRESSURE
The "cup of tea" scenario is one I can relate to as well.
# Posted on July 27th 2004 by Johnny Jay
Re: PRECTISE AND SELF INFLICTED PRESSURE
Gzeg - "Jesus Filter"
Background: the Kenny Werner book "Effortless Mastery" includes a CD with some meditations on it. I found them helpful but didn't like the buddhist/zen theology hanging on them.
Werner's book deals with how to quiet/silence the critical voice that we listen to: "you stink", "you'll never learn this", "I don't deserve to..." The critical voice can prevent the musician from practicing, reaching for the next level, turns playing from fun to drudgery.
In Werner's world, the release from the critical voice is meditation and finding the answer in one's own self.
In my world, I deal with the critical voice by reminding myself of what Jesus thinks of me, and its result is the same. It's just not coming from me, it's an outside source. That's the filter.
I agree with what Werner is saying, but disagree with the source of the relief, that's all.
Make sense? Hope so.
All the best.
# Posted on July 28th 2004 by mconners
Re: PRECTISE AND SELF INFLICTED PRESSURE
Wow, that's the best name drop so far - forget Frankie Gavin, you get tips direct from Jesus(!)
# Posted on July 28th 2004 by Ottery
Re: PRECTISE AND SELF INFLICTED PRESSURE
Oh, I forgot...
# Posted on July 28th 2004 by Ottery
Re: PRECTISE AND SELF INFLICTED PRESSURE
Just to show that this isn't a gender-based issue - Bren/Showaddy, every single %$#$% time I pick up a guitar, Him Indoors does exactly the same thing.
Which is twice as annoying because the old geetar earns $$$ at gigs which involve both of us, so you'd think the need to practice would be understood! But no, guitar = noodling = "you've got nothing to do".
Vague threats about taking guitar and car and church hall keys and clearing off to get a bit of peace sort-of got the point across. Harrumph 8>)
# Posted on July 28th 2004 by Tish
Re: PRECTISE AND SELF INFLICTED PRESSURE
Whereas if you just sat with your feet up watching telly, he'd probably leave you alone. I don't know, I really don't....
My dad was the same. As a teenager I could sit - lay - in my room for hours doing buggerall, then as soon as I picked up a guitar, he would appear at the door with a job that was needing done.
# Posted on July 28th 2004 by Bren
Re: PRECTISE AND SELF INFLICTED PRESSURE
Yeah, maybe it's that they forget all about you until they hear a noise!
# Posted on July 28th 2004 by Tish