Hello everyone! I stumbled onto this lovely site purely by accident, and after five minutes of browsing i decided to stay! anyway, i thought i'd kick things off with a post about something that's been bothering me. I started playing the mighty bodhran (i know, i know..."not another one!") about three months ago, and i've been having a bit of, i suppose you could say, anxiety. ive been playing at the session at nevin's pub in evanston, IL (chicago suburb) pretty regularly and i *love* it. bloody hell, if i had a car i'd be going to every session in the city. now i consider myself to be a very respectful player - i always take turns with the other bodhranists (is that a word? ), i'll never pick up my drum if someone else picks up theirs, and, most imporantly, i always remember that the bodhran is a *backup instrument*. however, i'm rather sort of nervous about going to other sessions because i'm afraid people will start to cringe when they see me walk in with the round bag under my arm. i guess everything i've read solidifies that this sentiment exists, and i certainly understand why it does, with all the lovelies buying a pretty drum at a festival then going to the first session they see and banging away at it with reckless abandon, not even knowing how to hold the tipper properly. i apologize for the previous run-on sentence. i'm rather too lazy to fix the grammar. and i also feel like because I'm a newcomer, and say there are already three drummers there, that they're all going to give me the evil eye or something...not as though thats happened at my session at all. i dont know, i'm probably just being paranoid. are there any bohran players out there who felt this way at first? or any other musicians that have thoughts on it? sorry for making my first post so melodramatic! haha, cheers all!
For one thing, James, you say you've been playing for about three months. This runs a red flag right up the pole for me. I can't tell you how many times someone with this kind of experience sits in with us and proceeds to destroy the music. It's not that they have bad intentions, but it takes more than three months to develop into a good bodhrán player.
Unless it's a beginner session, most of the other musicians at sessions have usually put in many years honing their skills, and then over-night bodhrán players show up expecting to be instantly part of the whole thing. I know some very accomplished bodhrán players who have spent considerable time sussing out how to properly play, and they might be the “other ones” at the session you’re going to. And if they’ve really figured it out right – you’ll notice they aren't playing all the time.
I suggest that you visit these sessions as a punter at first, get to know the players a bit, and maybe get some instruction from local experts or accomplished players passing through before you dive in. But like I say, if it’s a beginner session you’re probably all right. And if it IS a beginner session that you’re talking about, and the other bodhrán beginners aren’t giving you a turn -- just accidentally step on their tippers. (joking)
Which Nevin's session are you going to? Do you know Sandy Winters? He's a regular here on the site, as Tusong.
Anyway, if you really want to know if you're fitting in at a session, just ask the session leader(s) privately if you're fitting in or if there's anything they'd like you to work on or change about how you're joining in to be acceptable to everyone else. They'll generally give you the truth (some more candy coated than others). They'll also appreciate your asking, usually.
Listen to Jack, it takes longer than 3 months, definitely. You have to pay your dues. And unfortuantely, part of those dues in the beginning is playing badly, being on the receiving end of dirty looks, being shunned, ignored, or winced at...we've all been there! It might be time well spent to beome a regular at the session, enjoy the tunes, listen, and have a word with the session lead and see how they feel about bodhrans before joining in.
I'm not trying to sound negative, but for example, I started playing bodhran 15 years ago. I have been a regular customer at my new local's session for 7 months before my drum came with me. Now that it has, I am a regular player because I showed that I have manners and respect the etiquette. And it's great because I already sort of know them, having been enjoying their tunes all this time.
I think you will find most people are really decent once they see that you are decent too. You have half the battle won because you have good etiquette, but you have to practice your chops!
I have never been annoyed at a session by a bodhran player... I have not experienced the horror of bad bodhraning that alot on this site throw around... I HAVE experienced one to many screechy fiddles though... now thats an intstrument taht a student shouldn't take to a session until they've had a good 20 years in! Go and have fun and screw up like evryone else... you'll know when you're not welcome... sessions arent also those spontaneous combustions of fantasy that people dream about... they are usually run by a few core musicians who know each others tunes... sometimes that core gets snotty... screw them!
That's the best sessioning advice I can give at the moment.
"Screw them." Really? Well, it depends on whether you want to get tossed out the door or not, or ever invited back. Sometimes the core players get snotty because some eejit's mucking up their music and no amount of beating around the bush has produced any improvement. Just because music is happening in a public place does not mean it's a free for all, open to anyone with two rocks to bang together or Grandpa Beazlebub's fiddle fresh out of the closet.
James, our session has welcomed rookie bodhran players, and they've responded by focusing on keeping a simple, steady beat and paying attention to what type of tune (reel, hornpipe, jig, slip jig, etc.) they're backing. Our veteran drummers serve as mentors, pointing out that even bodhranistas need to learn the melodies so they can do a proper job. It all depends on your apparent respect for the music and players, and their willingness to accept another player (which varies from session to session, and often from night to night). You can always learn a lot just by listening in, and you'll know when you're ready to sit in.
james, If I may make so bold; a good way to measure your prowess on the bodhràn is to record yourself playing along at home with music that you like making sure that , little by little, you play with a good spread of various rhythms (jig, reel, polka, hornpipe etc).
Listen back to your playing regularly and figure out where you need to practice more and/or get advice/lessons.
Enjoy the music and allow everyone else to do so too.
I have read one to (sic) many badly spelt and ungrammatical postings criticising other people in this thread.
Must try harder. 4/10
Only a non-musician would say they have NEVER been offended/put off by a novice trying to play along with them (on any instrument, never mind the skin).
I still don't share the sentiments being thrown at you BARD...
Will, I made it clear and shared your point that it's not a "free for all." I also told Bard to go and have fun and to pay attention to when he isn't made to feel welcome... and YES screw the snotty musicians... one doesn't have to be invited to a public place... And yes Geoff Ive experienced more screechy fiddle than annoying bodhran. 20 years of fiddling before taking it out of the case in public please! Bard... follow my advice and keep playing and don't ever become part of the snotty core.
One person's snot is another person's...er...well, I don't know where I was going with that, but you probably get the idea.
I have sat next to beginning bodhran players who were a delight to have around, not because of their playing, but because they were nice people who didn't play too loudly, as they weren't very good yet. I've sat next to bodhran players who have been playing for 20 years and who were annoying as hell because they played poorly, and forgot that they were backers, not melody players.
Usually, you try to ignore the latter, would rather have the former, and pray for someone in the middle someplace.
Bad manners are bad manners, and nice people are nice people. Sometimes nice people can be poorly mannered. It doesn't mean they're not nice people, and human relations aren't supposed to be a one-way street. If you can't take your viewpoint out of yourself and into the wider group-view, you're going to run into a lot of snot, and no wonder.
This has been said a zillion times already, but here goes....
A session is like a conversation. Imagine some people are sitting around a table in a Galway pub discussing helioseismology and new findings about the sunspot cycle. You decide to jump in, uninvited, and begin shouting--in Cantonese with a few choice words of English--about a wicked bad sunburn you got last summer at the beach. Would the original conversants be "snotty" if they stopped talking and asked you to leave them alone? Not in my book.
Problem is, this sort of thing does happen at sessions all too often. Somebody shows up with a (name of instrument here), plops themselves down without so much as a hello, and proceeds to play loudly/out of tune/off rhythm/random notes/etc. It takes only a few such intrusions before a decent session leader gets a little gunshy about new instruments walking in the door.
So experienced session players (and average people with a sense of respect and humility) take their time getting to know an unfamiliar session before asking if they can sit in. It's a good idea, just as you would with a conversation, to listen in from the fringe for a while to find out whether what they're 'talking' about is what you want to talk about. And whether you share a common language and vocabulary, and whether they're way out of your league, or vice versa.
In my experience, 'snotty' session leaders are a rarity. In fact, I can't say I've ever run into them. The response you get depends a lot on _your_ behavior when you introduce yourself. If I did find a genuinely snotty session, I discretely find my way to another pub.
James, the simple fact that you're asking about all this in here tells me that you're on the right track. But in these things patience _is_ a virtue. As several of us have said, sessions do exist that will welcome beginner bodhranistas. But not every session will, and you'll be better off spending more time preparing before you try to sit in on those. Meanwhile, find people you can play with now, enjoy that for all it's worth, and keep working toward your goals. That's what it's all about.
scotirsh, just because a session happens in a public place doesn't automatically give anyone the right to interfere with it. You don't necessarily need to be invited, (although it is customary in some places,) but it doesn't mean you have the right to subject the session to inept and disruptive inabilities. When members of this website tell folks like James about these things -- they aren't being "snotty" -- they're being compassionate. Why? Because they might save people like James from the unnecessary embarrassment of being told publicly where to put his bodhrán. If you take the chip off your shoulder, scotirish, you too might benefit from the combined experience and wisdom of session.org members.
I think there has been some good advice here, none of it 'thrown' and all of it compassionate and encouraging. I wish more people would devote a similar amount of time to practicing their manners as they spend on their chops/scales.
On that topic, I know a musician who I am close to, who I wish would look in the musical mirror some time...he desperately needs to be saved by compassionate advice such as has been posted above. He knows a million tunes, has played for years, and attended a million workshops. But he doesn't play well. His timing is dodgy, he plays flat and is so interested in playing fast that he slobs all his notes together in order to get there first. He is a good human, but in the session he is aggressive, wants to start a set right away because he doesn't see why everyone is 'just sitting there chatting'....
It is TERRIBLE, because I have seen how people exchange glances when he's playing, and have been in situations where I have heard people (who don't know I'm close to him) bitching about his playing! My impulse is to defend him, but they are absolutely right in what they are saying. And it's not as if he hasn't had a million great teachers show him how to practice, or suggest he slow down. I should also mention that he spends a lot of time complaining about the level of other people's playing...
So, off on a tangent, sorry. But this sort of a person can ruin a session for everyone. That's why a person who is aware and sensitive will do better in the long run to one who knows more tunes.
Geezz paddywack, I didn't even notice you at any of our sessions. And I didn't know we were close either... wow! What's a "musical mirror" anyway, will it make my butt look bigger or smaller?
Holy Jaysus, what a response! I have to remember to check this site more frequently. But anyway, I'm sorry if I wasn't terribly clear about this whole issue. I can see you all are very vehement. And that's a good thing. I was saying originally that I was *afraid* of this happening, not that it *has* happened. And not because I'm a beginner, but because I play the bodhran. Ceolty, to answer your questions I am also a singer (I have shared a tune or two at the session) and I've been listening to ITM for about a year and a half - not a long time comparatively, I know, but I'm just 16 and I listen to different trad tunes pretty much every single day of my life. And there was a period where I just went to the session without my drum, and then with my drum completely muted, playing along in the corner so the drum made no noise but i got the feel for the playing. I also have been taking lessons every week since I started playing (if anyone's a chicagoan and knows Sean O'Hare, he's my teacher; or you may know his brother Kieran O'Hare) and practicing every day. It's only very recently when I started playing at the pub (asking first if I could join in), and by that time I was already well acquainted with the people and the atmosphere. So I apologize that I wasnt more specific in my first post. And again, I was talking about the fear of the anti-bodhran sentiment, and having said fear because of being a bodhran player, not because I'm a beginner (though perhaps I have more to fear than I thought? ) But thanks for your great responses, and thanks for the welcome. Oh, and Zina Lee, I don't quite understand your question, but I go to the sunday afternoon session at Tommy Nevin's pub in Evanston. Is Sandy Winters a banjo player, bit of an eccentric fellow (in a good way)? If so, I think I know whom youre speaking of. Well, cheers again.
With all due respect to scotirish, my experience differs. I have been in sessions of 20-30 people, with 10-15 begninners/improvers on melody instruments and we've held it together and all had a good time. However, *many* times I have seen a single bodhran wreck a session composed of experienced musicians. That's all it takes. Sorry if this puts anyone's nose out of joint. I think there has been some very good advice in this thread e.g. have a quite word with the resident session leads/heads. And if you go in with a "screw them" mentality, don't be surpirsed if you get that back in spades. Sorry for the rant, but this subject does provoke strong feelings.
Hey, if you are competent on the bodhran, go for it. I mean i've been playing bodhran in sessions since i was incompetant! I've been playing it for about 2 years on and off but the first time i actually realised how to play it was in a session (which wasn't a really high standard but...), I just got used to it, etc. Having listened to Irish music for years and playing other instruments and being brought up around it, i knew what i was "supposed" to be sounding like and entered the fleadh in 15-18 age group (me being 17) and came third in the All-britain round when i only entered for a laugh (with no practise on the tunes!).
I'm sure if you listen to Irish music all the time and are into the CD's (especially with a teacher) you'll be fine in a sesh. What sorta Irish music/bodhran players do you listen to?
As an experienced bodhran player, I have a few things to say on this subject. It has been my observation that many bodhran players take up the drum simply because they think it's easy, and one need not actually know tunes in order to play one. Hahahahahahahaha.
For you instrumentalists, here's how to weed out one of these looneys: I take out my flute and ask a suspect bodhran player to start a beat in jig time or reel time (doesn't matter which). Many, many times the person with a drum at the ready cannot do so because they don't know the difference. They'll say something lame like, "Oh, you just start something, and I'll join in." Yeah, right.
Okay, that covers the dilemma of the melody-instrument player. Now, on to Bard's question. After having observed the etiquette you have outlined, you should feel comfortable joining into the session, and if someone doesn't like it, too bad-so sad. However, if you can't keep a proper rhythm, or are somehow throwing everyone off, be prepared that someone may ask you to stop. That same rule should apply to anyone in the session. There is such a thing as encouraging a newcomer, but not at the expense of the session, unless the group wants to let someone who is new have their tune so they can make a contribution and be a part of things, then listen and absorb so they can go home and work on getting good enough to play more next time.
This thread has been very enlightening for me. Why you might ask? Well, many times when someone comes to the session and commences to blather away on a bodhrán seemingly clueless as to the effect they're having on the music... I've looked at them and wondered: What could they possibly be thinking? Some of the entries to this thread are shedding light on the convoluted logic that they employ in their self-righteous pursuits. Very interesting. *yawn*
This thread started out with a young bodhránist who sensed that something might be amiss in his approach and assumptions about sessions. I respect that, and I think he obviously has sensitivities that demonstrate his potential as a good sessioneer. Then you have someone like scotirish, who seems to approach a session with hostility towards the hosts, and his advice is "screw them." Finally we have ceolty who confesses that he attended sessions as an "incompetent" and feels that it was perfectly ok. Some folks, not just bodhrán players necessarily, think that sessions are their own private place to struggle away on their instrument and attempt to learn it without having to consider how it effects the people that came there for enjoyment. If they were to come to the session and ask if the people there would mind them using the session as their own private practice pad... I doubt everyone would say, "Oh sure, blast away. We only come out to sessions so that neophytes can ruin the music were playing. We just love it when people drum along cluelessly." Yea right.
Having said that… when we investigate who James, scotirish, and ceolty are – we find they all have something in common – they all just joined the website this month. They haven’t been part of the discussions that have covered the subject ad-nausium. Instead of doing a search of the discussions – they haplessly make the same lame statements that have been made time and time again already. I have way more patience for James, as I already pointed out, but these other two would benefit from a search of the session.org’s archives before they consider contributing again IMHO.
Good points, except for the attitude. Those of us who have been around The Session for a bit have gone over this stuff ad nauseum for a lot longer than you have, Jack, and we've all come to grips with it in one way or another. Just because you think the statements are lame doesn't mean that they do -- it's all new to them. Let them make their discoveries. Let them learn. Just because you know it all doesn't mean that they are boring people who deserve to have someone go "yawn" at them. It's not necessary to get snippy with them, or, for that matter, anyone else.
LOL -- not to worry, Jim. Y'see, I know darn well that Jack Gilder is the world's biggest pussycat who in person regularly puts up with the sort of player he's talking about, and they always go home feeling that they were part of things, because Jack has a heart of mush. He's just forgotten that this isn't IRATE-Trad, haven't you, Jack? *grin*
Wow, attitude eh? hmmm errr… Zina, I never claimed to be a "know it all" and I did spend time reading the archives before I began contributing back when I first joined this site. I never jumped into the discussion with hostility proclaiming that anyone should "screw them," and I do think it's fair to say that some of the comments made on this thread were "lame." If, to you, that's being "snippy," then I guess I am. I'm sorry, but when people come into the discussion making statements like "screw them," I think I have just as much right to tell them what I think. Personally I don't find such contributions to be condusive to positive and constructive discussions. If you choose to defend people who behave that way -- that's your prerogative -- not mine.
I guess we're cross posting now. Yes I do put up with this sort of thing often, and I rarely get an opportunity to speak with offenders out of the desire to keep things fun and friendly. One of the things I appreciate about this forum is that it gives me a chance to address some of these issues. And yes, I know this isn't IRTRAD. *wink*
*smirk* Yeah, right, like if you had the chance you wouldn't look into those big non-comprehending eyes of said offenders and chicken out, pat them on the head and go home and cry at your lack of ruthlessness.
I have had times where the barman at our local asked me why I didn't do anything about an atrocious bodhráneer. There was a time that I would have made the attempt, but at this point it's hardly worth it because of the flack one gets after doing it. As far as I can tell, at least around there parts, the session community is divided between people that respect sessions as places where practitioners of the art can enjoy sharing tunes -- and the others who think that because it's out in public that anyone has a God-given right to do whatever they want.
I remember one fellow who asked to play my drum and proceeded to destroy our attempts at music to the point where we could hardly continue -- so we stopped. I asked for the drum back and he said he wasn't finished with it. I said I thought he was -- and I put my hand out for it. He said, "This would never happen in a Celtic country." and stormed out with a pack of followers. For years after that I got flack for it from people I've never met before. (This is just one of many examples.) It seems like every offender manages to summons sympathy from people who will listen to their complaints. That's one reason why I don't bother with it much anymore. Could have a lot to do with my *yawn* though.
In a *Celtic* country? LOL -- the US is widely considered to be the one of the largest communities of Celtic peoples on the planet. For a linguistic category, "Celtic" sure seems to have taken on a huge burden of stuff. On the other hand, the guy was likely right, for Ireland anyway, because the way they mostly react to someone being silly there is to be extra-polite to them, at least over Dublin way. Or so my Dublin friends tell me.
I think by now scotirish has probably figured out that the bulk of people here think s/he is reacting in an immature, unhelpful way, whether s/he agrees with that viewpoint or not.
Life is not so black and white that it can only hold one viewpoint, of course, and every situation has it's variables. I'm sure there are session leaders who are snotty for no good reason. Don't go, then. There's no law that says that every session should be open, and they can do what they like with their session. But I've always found the bulk of sessions to be very friendly and open, myself.
My my, we do have some eloquent speakers in here, dont we? Breath of fresh air, really, compared to other forums. I'm sorry for creating so much controversy! But I'm glad for the hearty response and I shall take everything to heart...though I'm a little confused about the whole goat issue. But again, thanks for your troubles. Oh, and someone asked, if anyone still cares - I listen to Altan, Danu (with Donnchad Gough on the bodhran), Gan Bua, Tommy Peoples, the Clancy Bros/Tommy Makem, and of course Mary Bergin accompanied by the fabulous Johnny McDonnagh.
"Personally I don't find such contributions to be condusive to positive and constructive discussions. If you choose to defend people who behave that way -- that's your prerogative -- not mine."
True, that *is* my prerogative -- after all, occasionally, I defend *you*, too.
James, controversy, as long as it's discussed with civility, is a great way to move our collective thinking (and maybe some of our own individual thinking) forward on issues like this.
You're off to a great start, and it sounds like you've got a good head on your shoulders. It never hurts to learn from other people's perspectives, and bear in mind that you'll often be learning from people who've played this music longer than you've been alive! The more you can listen to what they have to offer, the broader and deeper your understanding will be.
Oh, and let us know how Sean answers your question.
Oh definitely, James, enquiring minds want to know -- I don't know Sean from Adam, but Kieran has a reputation for some pretty plain speaking (though he's never been anything but truly nice to me).
Hey James, the first Bergin CD is where I learned to play bodhrán. It's required listening for anyone who comes to me for instruction. You can hear the bodhrán easily and the playing is excellent. I also require that CD to people coming for whistle instruction as well. If I played bouzouki I'd require it for that too I suppose.
As far as Will's age goes -- he's not kidding. I met him in my past life as a blacksmith in Laramie when Will was carrying six-guns and wearing a star as a deputy sheriff. He played a bit of piano in those days though, spent a lot of time in the saloons you know.
It is this life for you... I'm the one who was in the past life. You probably don't remember me though. Or maybe you do, my name was Miles, remember? And my front teeth were missing. You should remember me, I died in one of your jail cells. Don't you remember the big saloon brawl of 1887? It was the night your sister came to town on the stage as I recollect. The reason I know all of this is because I went to a therapist to get over my unexplained phobia of English push-fiddles in my current life. The regression session was amazing, now I can almost stand to listen to the contraptions too.
Oy Jack, You can't have been me in a past life.. wishful thinking on your part. Besides I always advise bodhran players to use vaseline on their bodhran.
James, I am inclined to defend you (having observed your behavior at Nevin's for these past several weeks). However I am conflicted due to the fact that you described me as 'eccentric'??!!. I am offended. I'd accept crusty, ill-tempered, a bit of a lush, out of tune (always), but 'eccentric??? Please.
Seriously, Nevin's is a *very* forgiving session, though not a beginner's session. This is due to the fact that John Williams (session host) has a very high level of tolerance (He's been tolerating me for many years). But he does have a breaking point. Keep doing what you've been doing and you'll be fine. I would say that John once told me that he hesitates to compliment guitar players because after the compliment they invariably start playing louder. Take this as a word of warning.
Ask advice of Sean O'Hare. He's a good friend of mine and a curmudgeon in training. He'll set you straight.
See ya tomorrow. You owe me a pint. Oh, that's right, too young. Darn!!!
Sandy! I hang my head in shame. I meant not to offend! Haha, I was, of course, being facetious...and anyway, eccentric people are the best kind of folk! Being a bit of one myself, I should know . And anyway, I meant it in the nicest way possible. But thank you for your kind words, everyone at Nevins has been really wonderful. And I completely understand what you mean about John hesitating to compliment the rhythm section, and you have no worries about me in that department. I spose I'll just keep trying to be as respectful as possible; see you tomorrow then!
Oh, and if you're still around the pub in five or so years, I'll buy you two pints. Haha, cheers!
Geez, Zina, nothing like putting both James and Sean on the spot. A real test of tact, I'd say.
Seriously, walking into an unfamiliar session can raise anyone's anxieties, no matter what instrument you're carrying. Do bodhrans get no respect? Yes, but depending on the session, the same is true for guitars, banjos, flutes and whistles, pipes, harps, fiddles, etc. Fact is, no matter what you play--or even how well you play it--if you session, you'll eventually run into someone who doesn't appreciate your contribution to the music.
Best you can do, then, is do your woodsheddding at home, learn the music, respect it and your elders, and wear a thick skin. Often as not, you'll stumble into a circle of nice folks enjoying the tunes. On the odd occasion otherwise, you'll know not to take it personally, and get on making your music elsewhere.
I think that Will's comments are on the money... particularly "do your woodshedding at home" and "learn the music"...
A bit of Bradbury for the overly tentative, "If you hide your
ignorance, no one will hit you and you'll never learn."
And another quote from a good friend, "Just because they play Irish music doesn't mean they're not a*sholes."
Not much of a reply, I know, but how much can a person really talk about the bodhran on a Monday morning?
Sean
LOL -- not spent much time around here, have you, Sean? We can talk about *anything* at any length at any time. *grin*
See Will? Tactful, he was.
Thanks, Sean, and I've been trying to get up to Nevin's the last three times I was up in Chicago, but ended up spending all my time on the west side and downtown. Maybe next time, though I haven't the slightest when that will be. Perhaps I'll meet you and have a tune or two with you at that point.
Oh, I wouldn't ever insert myself into the expert curmudgeonry that would take place at Nevin's, how could I possibly add to that? I'll just sit at the feet of the masters and listen carefully and learn. *grin*
Bodhran anxiety?
Bodhran anxiety?
Hello everyone! I stumbled onto this lovely site purely by accident, and after five minutes of browsing i decided to stay! anyway, i thought i'd kick things off with a post about something that's been bothering me. I started playing the mighty bodhran (i know, i know..."not another one!") about three months ago, and i've been having a bit of, i suppose you could say, anxiety. ive been playing at the session at nevin's pub in evanston, IL (chicago suburb) pretty regularly and i *love* it. bloody hell, if i had a car i'd be going to every session in the city. now i consider myself to be a very respectful player - i always take turns with the other bodhranists (is that a word?
), i'll never pick up my drum if someone else picks up theirs, and, most imporantly, i always remember that the bodhran is a *backup instrument*. however, i'm rather sort of nervous about going to other sessions because i'm afraid people will start to cringe when they see me walk in with the round bag under my arm. i guess everything i've read solidifies that this sentiment exists, and i certainly understand why it does, with all the lovelies buying a pretty drum at a festival then going to the first session they see and banging away at it with reckless abandon, not even knowing how to hold the tipper properly. i apologize for the previous run-on sentence. i'm rather too lazy to fix the grammar. and i also feel like because I'm a newcomer, and say there are already three drummers there, that they're all going to give me the evil eye or something...not as though thats happened at my session at all. i dont know, i'm probably just being paranoid. are there any bohran players out there who felt this way at first? or any other musicians that have thoughts on it? sorry for making my first post so melodramatic! haha, cheers all!
-James
# Posted on July 14th 2004 by Bard
Re: Bodhran anxiety?
For one thing, James, you say you've been playing for about three months. This runs a red flag right up the pole for me. I can't tell you how many times someone with this kind of experience sits in with us and proceeds to destroy the music. It's not that they have bad intentions, but it takes more than three months to develop into a good bodhrán player.
Unless it's a beginner session, most of the other musicians at sessions have usually put in many years honing their skills, and then over-night bodhrán players show up expecting to be instantly part of the whole thing. I know some very accomplished bodhrán players who have spent considerable time sussing out how to properly play, and they might be the “other ones” at the session you’re going to. And if they’ve really figured it out right – you’ll notice they aren't playing all the time.
I suggest that you visit these sessions as a punter at first, get to know the players a bit, and maybe get some instruction from local experts or accomplished players passing through before you dive in. But like I say, if it’s a beginner session you’re probably all right. And if it IS a beginner session that you’re talking about, and the other bodhrán beginners aren’t giving you a turn -- just accidentally step on their tippers. (joking)
# Posted on July 14th 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: Bodhran anxiety?
Which Nevin's session are you going to? Do you know Sandy Winters? He's a regular here on the site, as Tusong.
Anyway, if you really want to know if you're fitting in at a session, just ask the session leader(s) privately if you're fitting in or if there's anything they'd like you to work on or change about how you're joining in to be acceptable to everyone else. They'll generally give you the truth (some more candy coated than others). They'll also appreciate your asking, usually.
Welcome to The Session, James!
# Posted on July 14th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Bodhran anxiety?
Hi there:
Listen to Jack, it takes longer than 3 months, definitely. You have to pay your dues. And unfortuantely, part of those dues in the beginning is playing badly, being on the receiving end of dirty looks, being shunned, ignored, or winced at...we've all been there! It might be time well spent to beome a regular at the session, enjoy the tunes, listen, and have a word with the session lead and see how they feel about bodhrans before joining in.
I'm not trying to sound negative, but for example, I started playing bodhran 15 years ago. I have been a regular customer at my new local's session for 7 months before my drum came with me. Now that it has, I am a regular player because I showed that I have manners and respect the etiquette. And it's great because I already sort of know them, having been enjoying their tunes all this time.
I think you will find most people are really decent once they see that you are decent too. You have half the battle won because you have good etiquette, but you have to practice your chops!
# Posted on July 14th 2004 by gladys
Re: Bodhran anxiety?
I have never been annoyed at a session by a bodhran player... I have not experienced the horror of bad bodhraning that alot on this site throw around... I HAVE experienced one to many screechy fiddles though... now thats an intstrument taht a student shouldn't take to a session until they've had a good 20 years in! Go and have fun and screw up like evryone else... you'll know when you're not welcome... sessions arent also those spontaneous combustions of fantasy that people dream about... they are usually run by a few core musicians who know each others tunes... sometimes that core gets snotty... screw them!
That's the best sessioning advice I can give at the moment.
# Posted on July 14th 2004 by scotirish
Re: Bodhran anxiety?
"Screw them." Really? Well, it depends on whether you want to get tossed out the door or not, or ever invited back. Sometimes the core players get snotty because some eejit's mucking up their music and no amount of beating around the bush has produced any improvement. Just because music is happening in a public place does not mean it's a free for all, open to anyone with two rocks to bang together or Grandpa Beazlebub's fiddle fresh out of the closet.
James, our session has welcomed rookie bodhran players, and they've responded by focusing on keeping a simple, steady beat and paying attention to what type of tune (reel, hornpipe, jig, slip jig, etc.) they're backing. Our veteran drummers serve as mentors, pointing out that even bodhranistas need to learn the melodies so they can do a proper job. It all depends on your apparent respect for the music and players, and their willingness to accept another player (which varies from session to session, and often from night to night). You can always learn a lot just by listening in, and you'll know when you're ready to sit in.
# Posted on July 14th 2004 by Will Harmon
Re: Bodhran anxiety?
I've met a few musicians I wouldn't mind screwing.
(disclaimer) Jack didn't say this -- it was his evil twin that hijacked the computer.
# Posted on July 14th 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: Bodhran anxiety?
C'mon Jack, we want names, drop some names! :oD
# Posted on July 14th 2004 by Will Harmon
Re: Bodhran anxiety?
In fact, we want photographs! Better yet, video!
# Posted on July 14th 2004 by Will Harmon
Re: Bodhran anxiety?
tsk tsk tsk... pervert.
# Posted on July 14th 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: Bodhran anxiety?
james, If I may make so bold; a good way to measure your prowess on the bodhràn is to record yourself playing along at home with music that you like making sure that , little by little, you play with a good spread of various rhythms (jig, reel, polka, hornpipe etc).
Listen back to your playing regularly and figure out where you need to practice more and/or get advice/lessons.
Enjoy the music and allow everyone else to do so too.
Joe
# Posted on July 14th 2004 by Joe Quinn
Re: Bodhran anxiety?
I have read one to (sic) many badly spelt and ungrammatical postings criticising other people in this thread.
Must try harder. 4/10
Only a non-musician would say they have NEVER been offended/put off by a novice trying to play along with them (on any instrument, never mind the skin).
# Posted on July 14th 2004 by geoffwright
Re: Bodhran anxiety?
James do you play another instrument? How long have you been listening to Irish Music, etc...
Need more info.
# Posted on July 14th 2004 by ceolty
Re: Bodhran anxiety?
I still don't share the sentiments being thrown at you BARD...
Will, I made it clear and shared your point that it's not a "free for all." I also told Bard to go and have fun and to pay attention to when he isn't made to feel welcome... and YES screw the snotty musicians... one doesn't have to be invited to a public place... And yes Geoff Ive experienced more screechy fiddle than annoying bodhran. 20 years of fiddling before taking it out of the case in public please! Bard... follow my advice and keep playing and don't ever become part of the snotty core.
# Posted on July 15th 2004 by scotirish
Re: Bodhran anxiety?
One person's snot is another person's...er...well, I don't know where I was going with that, but you probably get the idea.
I have sat next to beginning bodhran players who were a delight to have around, not because of their playing, but because they were nice people who didn't play too loudly, as they weren't very good yet. I've sat next to bodhran players who have been playing for 20 years and who were annoying as hell because they played poorly, and forgot that they were backers, not melody players.
Usually, you try to ignore the latter, would rather have the former, and pray for someone in the middle someplace.
Bad manners are bad manners, and nice people are nice people. Sometimes nice people can be poorly mannered. It doesn't mean they're not nice people, and human relations aren't supposed to be a one-way street. If you can't take your viewpoint out of yourself and into the wider group-view, you're going to run into a lot of snot, and no wonder.
# Posted on July 15th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Bodhran anxiety?
I allus play my foghorn quietly.
Joe
# Posted on July 15th 2004 by Joe Quinn
Re: Bodhran anxiety?
This has been said a zillion times already, but here goes....
A session is like a conversation. Imagine some people are sitting around a table in a Galway pub discussing helioseismology and new findings about the sunspot cycle. You decide to jump in, uninvited, and begin shouting--in Cantonese with a few choice words of English--about a wicked bad sunburn you got last summer at the beach. Would the original conversants be "snotty" if they stopped talking and asked you to leave them alone? Not in my book.
Problem is, this sort of thing does happen at sessions all too often. Somebody shows up with a (name of instrument here), plops themselves down without so much as a hello, and proceeds to play loudly/out of tune/off rhythm/random notes/etc. It takes only a few such intrusions before a decent session leader gets a little gunshy about new instruments walking in the door.
So experienced session players (and average people with a sense of respect and humility) take their time getting to know an unfamiliar session before asking if they can sit in. It's a good idea, just as you would with a conversation, to listen in from the fringe for a while to find out whether what they're 'talking' about is what you want to talk about. And whether you share a common language and vocabulary, and whether they're way out of your league, or vice versa.
In my experience, 'snotty' session leaders are a rarity. In fact, I can't say I've ever run into them. The response you get depends a lot on _your_ behavior when you introduce yourself. If I did find a genuinely snotty session, I discretely find my way to another pub.
James, the simple fact that you're asking about all this in here tells me that you're on the right track. But in these things patience _is_ a virtue. As several of us have said, sessions do exist that will welcome beginner bodhranistas. But not every session will, and you'll be better off spending more time preparing before you try to sit in on those. Meanwhile, find people you can play with now, enjoy that for all it's worth, and keep working toward your goals. That's what it's all about.
# Posted on July 15th 2004 by Will Harmon
Re: Bodhran anxiety?
scotirsh, just because a session happens in a public place doesn't automatically give anyone the right to interfere with it. You don't necessarily need to be invited, (although it is customary in some places,) but it doesn't mean you have the right to subject the session to inept and disruptive inabilities. When members of this website tell folks like James about these things -- they aren't being "snotty" -- they're being compassionate. Why? Because they might save people like James from the unnecessary embarrassment of being told publicly where to put his bodhrán. If you take the chip off your shoulder, scotirish, you too might benefit from the combined experience and wisdom of session.org members.
# Posted on July 15th 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: Bodhran anxiety?
I think there has been some good advice here, none of it 'thrown' and all of it compassionate and encouraging. I wish more people would devote a similar amount of time to practicing their manners as they spend on their chops/scales.
On that topic, I know a musician who I am close to, who I wish would look in the musical mirror some time...he desperately needs to be saved by compassionate advice such as has been posted above. He knows a million tunes, has played for years, and attended a million workshops. But he doesn't play well. His timing is dodgy, he plays flat and is so interested in playing fast that he slobs all his notes together in order to get there first. He is a good human, but in the session he is aggressive, wants to start a set right away because he doesn't see why everyone is 'just sitting there chatting'....
It is TERRIBLE, because I have seen how people exchange glances when he's playing, and have been in situations where I have heard people (who don't know I'm close to him) bitching about his playing! My impulse is to defend him, but they are absolutely right in what they are saying. And it's not as if he hasn't had a million great teachers show him how to practice, or suggest he slow down. I should also mention that he spends a lot of time complaining about the level of other people's playing...
So, off on a tangent, sorry. But this sort of a person can ruin a session for everyone. That's why a person who is aware and sensitive will do better in the long run to one who knows more tunes.
# Posted on July 15th 2004 by gladys
Re: Bodhran anxiety?
Geezz paddywack, I didn't even notice you at any of our sessions. And I didn't know we were close either... wow! What's a "musical mirror" anyway, will it make my butt look bigger or smaller?
# Posted on July 15th 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: Bodhran anxiety?
Holy Jaysus, what a response! I have to remember to check this site more frequently. But anyway, I'm sorry if I wasn't terribly clear about this whole issue. I can see you all are very vehement. And that's a good thing. I was saying originally that I was *afraid* of this happening, not that it *has* happened. And not because I'm a beginner, but because I play the bodhran. Ceolty, to answer your questions I am also a singer (I have shared a tune or two at the session) and I've been listening to ITM for about a year and a half - not a long time comparatively, I know, but I'm just 16 and I listen to different trad tunes pretty much every single day of my life. And there was a period where I just went to the session without my drum, and then with my drum completely muted, playing along in the corner so the drum made no noise but i got the feel for the playing. I also have been taking lessons every week since I started playing (if anyone's a chicagoan and knows Sean O'Hare, he's my teacher; or you may know his brother Kieran O'Hare) and practicing every day. It's only very recently when I started playing at the pub (asking first if I could join in), and by that time I was already well acquainted with the people and the atmosphere. So I apologize that I wasnt more specific in my first post. And again, I was talking about the fear of the anti-bodhran sentiment, and having said fear because of being a bodhran player, not because I'm a beginner (though perhaps I have more to fear than I thought?
) But thanks for your great responses, and thanks for the welcome. Oh, and Zina Lee, I don't quite understand your question, but I go to the sunday afternoon session at Tommy Nevin's pub in Evanston. Is Sandy Winters a banjo player, bit of an eccentric fellow (in a good way)? If so, I think I know whom youre speaking of. Well, cheers again.
-James
# Posted on July 15th 2004 by Bard
Re: Bodhran anxiety?
Hey James, maybe you should run your question by your bodhrán teacher, Sean O'Hare... just a thought.
# Posted on July 15th 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: Bodhran anxiety?
Jack, it is SO not you!
A musical mirror makes your butt look HUUUUGE.
Hairs and everything.
hee hee hee.....
# Posted on July 15th 2004 by gladys
Re: Bodhran anxiety?
Hmm....i think you may be on to something Jack. I'm surprised I didn't think of that. Wow. That's so...easy. I think I will.
# Posted on July 15th 2004 by Bard
Re: Bodhran anxiety?
With all due respect to scotirish, my experience differs. I have been in sessions of 20-30 people, with 10-15 begninners/improvers on melody instruments and we've held it together and all had a good time. However, *many* times I have seen a single bodhran wreck a session composed of experienced musicians. That's all it takes. Sorry if this puts anyone's nose out of joint. I think there has been some very good advice in this thread e.g. have a quite word with the resident session leads/heads. And if you go in with a "screw them" mentality, don't be surpirsed if you get that back in spades. Sorry for the rant, but this subject does provoke strong feelings.
# Posted on July 15th 2004 by Just a person
Re: Bodhran anxiety?
Hey, if you are competent on the bodhran, go for it. I mean i've been playing bodhran in sessions since i was incompetant! I've been playing it for about 2 years on and off but the first time i actually realised how to play it was in a session (which wasn't a really high standard but...), I just got used to it, etc. Having listened to Irish music for years and playing other instruments and being brought up around it, i knew what i was "supposed" to be sounding like and entered the fleadh in 15-18 age group (me being 17) and came third in the All-britain round when i only entered for a laugh (with no practise on the tunes!).
I'm sure if you listen to Irish music all the time and are into the CD's (especially with a teacher) you'll be fine in a sesh. What sorta Irish music/bodhran players do you listen to?
# Posted on July 16th 2004 by ceolty
Re: Bodhran anxiety?
As an experienced bodhran player, I have a few things to say on this subject. It has been my observation that many bodhran players take up the drum simply because they think it's easy, and one need not actually know tunes in order to play one. Hahahahahahahaha.
For you instrumentalists, here's how to weed out one of these looneys: I take out my flute and ask a suspect bodhran player to start a beat in jig time or reel time (doesn't matter which). Many, many times the person with a drum at the ready cannot do so because they don't know the difference. They'll say something lame like, "Oh, you just start something, and I'll join in." Yeah, right.
Okay, that covers the dilemma of the melody-instrument player. Now, on to Bard's question. After having observed the etiquette you have outlined, you should feel comfortable joining into the session, and if someone doesn't like it, too bad-so sad. However, if you can't keep a proper rhythm, or are somehow throwing everyone off, be prepared that someone may ask you to stop. That same rule should apply to anyone in the session. There is such a thing as encouraging a newcomer, but not at the expense of the session, unless the group wants to let someone who is new have their tune so they can make a contribution and be a part of things, then listen and absorb so they can go home and work on getting good enough to play more next time.
Hope that covers both sides of the issue.
Cheers.
# Posted on July 16th 2004 by Ailin
Re: Bodhran anxiety?
This thread has been very enlightening for me. Why you might ask? Well, many times when someone comes to the session and commences to blather away on a bodhrán seemingly clueless as to the effect they're having on the music... I've looked at them and wondered: What could they possibly be thinking? Some of the entries to this thread are shedding light on the convoluted logic that they employ in their self-righteous pursuits. Very interesting. *yawn*
# Posted on July 16th 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: Bodhran anxiety?
You had me all the way up to the "yawn", Jack...
# Posted on July 16th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Bodhran anxiety?
hahahaha
But it's true :- >
# Posted on July 16th 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: Bodhran anxiety?
For you, perhaps. They're probably quite interested in their own thoughts.
# Posted on July 16th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Bodhran anxiety?
This thread started out with a young bodhránist who sensed that something might be amiss in his approach and assumptions about sessions. I respect that, and I think he obviously has sensitivities that demonstrate his potential as a good sessioneer. Then you have someone like scotirish, who seems to approach a session with hostility towards the hosts, and his advice is "screw them." Finally we have ceolty who confesses that he attended sessions as an "incompetent" and feels that it was perfectly ok. Some folks, not just bodhrán players necessarily, think that sessions are their own private place to struggle away on their instrument and attempt to learn it without having to consider how it effects the people that came there for enjoyment. If they were to come to the session and ask if the people there would mind them using the session as their own private practice pad... I doubt everyone would say, "Oh sure, blast away. We only come out to sessions so that neophytes can ruin the music were playing. We just love it when people drum along cluelessly." Yea right.
Having said that… when we investigate who James, scotirish, and ceolty are – we find they all have something in common – they all just joined the website this month. They haven’t been part of the discussions that have covered the subject ad-nausium. Instead of doing a search of the discussions – they haplessly make the same lame statements that have been made time and time again already. I have way more patience for James, as I already pointed out, but these other two would benefit from a search of the session.org’s archives before they consider contributing again IMHO.
# Posted on July 16th 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: Bodhran anxiety?
Good points, except for the attitude. Those of us who have been around The Session for a bit have gone over this stuff ad nauseum for a lot longer than you have, Jack, and we've all come to grips with it in one way or another. Just because you think the statements are lame doesn't mean that they do -- it's all new to them. Let them make their discoveries. Let them learn. Just because you know it all doesn't mean that they are boring people who deserve to have someone go "yawn" at them. It's not necessary to get snippy with them, or, for that matter, anyone else.
# Posted on July 16th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Bodhran anxiety?
LOL -- not to worry, Jim. Y'see, I know darn well that Jack Gilder is the world's biggest pussycat who in person regularly puts up with the sort of player he's talking about, and they always go home feeling that they were part of things, because Jack has a heart of mush. He's just forgotten that this isn't IRATE-Trad, haven't you, Jack? *grin*
# Posted on July 16th 2004 by Zina Lee
P.s.
It's gold mush, admittedly, but mush nonetheless.
# Posted on July 16th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Bodhran anxiety?
Wow, attitude eh? hmmm errr… Zina, I never claimed to be a "know it all" and I did spend time reading the archives before I began contributing back when I first joined this site. I never jumped into the discussion with hostility proclaiming that anyone should "screw them," and I do think it's fair to say that some of the comments made on this thread were "lame." If, to you, that's being "snippy," then I guess I am. I'm sorry, but when people come into the discussion making statements like "screw them," I think I have just as much right to tell them what I think. Personally I don't find such contributions to be condusive to positive and constructive discussions. If you choose to defend people who behave that way -- that's your prerogative -- not mine.
# Posted on July 16th 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: Bodhran anxiety?
I guess we're cross posting now. Yes I do put up with this sort of thing often, and I rarely get an opportunity to speak with offenders out of the desire to keep things fun and friendly. One of the things I appreciate about this forum is that it gives me a chance to address some of these issues. And yes, I know this isn't IRTRAD. *wink*
# Posted on July 16th 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: Bodhran anxiety?
*smirk* Yeah, right, like if you had the chance you wouldn't look into those big non-comprehending eyes of said offenders and chicken out, pat them on the head and go home and cry at your lack of ruthlessness.
# Posted on July 16th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Bodhran anxiety?
I have had times where the barman at our local asked me why I didn't do anything about an atrocious bodhráneer. There was a time that I would have made the attempt, but at this point it's hardly worth it because of the flack one gets after doing it. As far as I can tell, at least around there parts, the session community is divided between people that respect sessions as places where practitioners of the art can enjoy sharing tunes -- and the others who think that because it's out in public that anyone has a God-given right to do whatever they want.
I remember one fellow who asked to play my drum and proceeded to destroy our attempts at music to the point where we could hardly continue -- so we stopped. I asked for the drum back and he said he wasn't finished with it. I said I thought he was -- and I put my hand out for it. He said, "This would never happen in a Celtic country." and stormed out with a pack of followers. For years after that I got flack for it from people I've never met before. (This is just one of many examples.) It seems like every offender manages to summons sympathy from people who will listen to their complaints. That's one reason why I don't bother with it much anymore. Could have a lot to do with my *yawn* though.
# Posted on July 16th 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: Bodhran anxiety?
In a *Celtic* country? LOL -- the US is widely considered to be the one of the largest communities of Celtic peoples on the planet. For a linguistic category, "Celtic" sure seems to have taken on a huge burden of stuff. On the other hand, the guy was likely right, for Ireland anyway, because the way they mostly react to someone being silly there is to be extra-polite to them, at least over Dublin way. Or so my Dublin friends tell me.
I think by now scotirish has probably figured out that the bulk of people here think s/he is reacting in an immature, unhelpful way, whether s/he agrees with that viewpoint or not.
Life is not so black and white that it can only hold one viewpoint, of course, and every situation has it's variables. I'm sure there are session leaders who are snotty for no good reason. Don't go, then. There's no law that says that every session should be open, and they can do what they like with their session. But I've always found the bulk of sessions to be very friendly and open, myself.
# Posted on July 16th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Bodhran anxiety?
Jack, did the bodhran borrower say that Dow sent him? :oD
# Posted on July 16th 2004 by Will Harmon
Re: Bodhran anxiety?
I would've told the guy how right he was, that no one in Ireland would ever be so rude as to refuse to return the owner's goat....
# Posted on July 16th 2004 by Will Harmon
Re: Bodhran anxiety?
My my, we do have some eloquent speakers in here, dont we? Breath of fresh air, really, compared to other forums. I'm sorry for creating so much controversy! But I'm glad for the hearty response and I shall take everything to heart...though I'm a little confused about the whole goat issue. But again, thanks for your troubles. Oh, and someone asked, if anyone still cares - I listen to Altan, Danu (with Donnchad Gough on the bodhran), Gan Bua, Tommy Peoples, the Clancy Bros/Tommy Makem, and of course Mary Bergin accompanied by the fabulous Johnny McDonnagh.
# Posted on July 16th 2004 by Bard
And btw, Jack...
"Personally I don't find such contributions to be condusive to positive and constructive discussions. If you choose to defend people who behave that way -- that's your prerogative -- not mine."
True, that *is* my prerogative -- after all, occasionally, I defend *you*, too.
# Posted on July 16th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Bodhran anxiety?
James, controversy, as long as it's discussed with civility, is a great way to move our collective thinking (and maybe some of our own individual thinking) forward on issues like this.
You're off to a great start, and it sounds like you've got a good head on your shoulders. It never hurts to learn from other people's perspectives, and bear in mind that you'll often be learning from people who've played this music longer than you've been alive! The more you can listen to what they have to offer, the broader and deeper your understanding will be.
Oh, and let us know how Sean answers your question.
# Posted on July 16th 2004 by Will Harmon
Re: Bodhran anxiety?
Oh definitely, James, enquiring minds want to know -- I don't know Sean from Adam, but Kieran has a reputation for some pretty plain speaking (though he's never been anything but truly nice to me).
# Posted on July 16th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Bodhran anxiety?
Hey James, the first Bergin CD is where I learned to play bodhrán. It's required listening for anyone who comes to me for instruction. You can hear the bodhrán easily and the playing is excellent. I also require that CD to people coming for whistle instruction as well. If I played bouzouki I'd require it for that too I suppose.
As far as Will's age goes -- he's not kidding. I met him in my past life as a blacksmith in Laramie when Will was carrying six-guns and wearing a star as a deputy sheriff. He played a bit of piano in those days though, spent a lot of time in the saloons you know.
# Posted on July 16th 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: Bodhran anxiety?
Jack, that sounds more like _this_ life. *snort*
# Posted on July 16th 2004 by Will Harmon
Re: Bodhran anxiety?
It is this life for you... I'm the one who was in the past life. You probably don't remember me though. Or maybe you do, my name was Miles, remember? And my front teeth were missing. You should remember me, I died in one of your jail cells. Don't you remember the big saloon brawl of 1887? It was the night your sister came to town on the stage as I recollect. The reason I know all of this is because I went to a therapist to get over my unexplained phobia of English push-fiddles in my current life. The regression session was amazing, now I can almost stand to listen to the contraptions too.
# Posted on July 16th 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: Bodhran anxiety?
Oh, btw James, as far as the eloquent speaking goes -- jim troy learned us real good everything we know on how to talk real proper like.
# Posted on July 16th 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: Bodhran anxiety?
Admit it, you enjoyed it. *snigger*
# Posted on July 16th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Bodhran anxiety?
Oy Jack, You can't have been me in a past life.. wishful thinking on your part. Besides I always advise bodhran players to use vaseline on their bodhran.
# Posted on July 16th 2004 by milesnagopaleen
Re: Bodhran anxiety?
I'm a bit late on this thread but here goes.
James, I am inclined to defend you (having observed your behavior at Nevin's for these past several weeks). However I am conflicted due to the fact that you described me as 'eccentric'??!!. I am offended. I'd accept crusty, ill-tempered, a bit of a lush, out of tune (always), but 'eccentric??? Please.
Seriously, Nevin's is a *very* forgiving session, though not a beginner's session. This is due to the fact that John Williams (session host) has a very high level of tolerance (He's been tolerating me for many years). But he does have a breaking point. Keep doing what you've been doing and you'll be fine. I would say that John once told me that he hesitates to compliment guitar players because after the compliment they invariably start playing louder. Take this as a word of warning.
Ask advice of Sean O'Hare. He's a good friend of mine and a curmudgeon in training. He'll set you straight.
See ya tomorrow. You owe me a pint. Oh, that's right, too young. Darn!!!
# Posted on July 17th 2004 by Tusong200
Re: Bodhran anxiety?
Sandy! I hang my head in shame. I meant not to offend! Haha, I was, of course, being facetious...and anyway, eccentric people are the best kind of folk! Being a bit of one myself, I should know
. And anyway, I meant it in the nicest way possible. But thank you for your kind words, everyone at Nevins has been really wonderful. And I completely understand what you mean about John hesitating to compliment the rhythm section, and you have no worries about me in that department. I spose I'll just keep trying to be as respectful as possible; see you tomorrow then!
Oh, and if you're still around the pub in five or so years, I'll buy you two pints. Haha, cheers!
# Posted on July 17th 2004 by Bard
Re: Bodhran anxiety?
Oh, I forgot to say that (to avoid so another grevious offence) I may or may not agree with your "curmudgeon" statement
.
# Posted on July 17th 2004 by Bard
Re: Bodhran anxiety?
And what is a curmudgeon who is too young to mudge cur, Sandy? I think the answer to that question most fittingly describes my aspirations.
# Posted on July 19th 2004 by Sean O'Hare
Re: Bodhran anxiety?
Hey! That's Sean! So, what does Sean say about the whole thing, then?
# Posted on July 25th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Bodhran anxiety?
Geez, Zina, nothing like putting both James and Sean on the spot. A real test of tact, I'd say.
Seriously, walking into an unfamiliar session can raise anyone's anxieties, no matter what instrument you're carrying. Do bodhrans get no respect? Yes, but depending on the session, the same is true for guitars, banjos, flutes and whistles, pipes, harps, fiddles, etc. Fact is, no matter what you play--or even how well you play it--if you session, you'll eventually run into someone who doesn't appreciate your contribution to the music.
Best you can do, then, is do your woodsheddding at home, learn the music, respect it and your elders, and wear a thick skin. Often as not, you'll stumble into a circle of nice folks enjoying the tunes. On the odd occasion otherwise, you'll know not to take it personally, and get on making your music elsewhere.
# Posted on July 25th 2004 by Will Harmon
Re: Bodhran anxiety?
Yes, and I'd love to see an O'Hare go through one, Will! ;)
# Posted on July 25th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Bodhran anxiety?
I think that Will's comments are on the money... particularly "do your woodshedding at home" and "learn the music"...
A bit of Bradbury for the overly tentative, "If you hide your
ignorance, no one will hit you and you'll never learn."
And another quote from a good friend, "Just because they play Irish music doesn't mean they're not a*sholes."
Not much of a reply, I know, but how much can a person really talk about the bodhran on a Monday morning?
Sean
# Posted on July 26th 2004 by Sean O'Hare
Re: Bodhran anxiety?
LOL -- not spent much time around here, have you, Sean? We can talk about *anything* at any length at any time. *grin*
See Will? Tactful, he was.
Thanks, Sean, and I've been trying to get up to Nevin's the last three times I was up in Chicago, but ended up spending all my time on the west side and downtown. Maybe next time, though I haven't the slightest when that will be. Perhaps I'll meet you and have a tune or two with you at that point.
# Posted on July 26th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Bodhran anxiety?
I look forward to it, Zina. You can partake of the curmudgeonry with Sandy and I.
# Posted on July 26th 2004 by Sean O'Hare
Re: Bodhran anxiety?
Oh, I wouldn't ever insert myself into the expert curmudgeonry that would take place at Nevin's, how could I possibly add to that? I'll just sit at the feet of the masters and listen carefully and learn. *grin*
# Posted on July 26th 2004 by Zina Lee