Imagine an annual, stateside, open-invitation event within an event -- a gathering of musicians, singers, dancers, humorists, and others taking part in community-oriented shared entertainment with an emphasis on the Irish, Scottish, or "celtic" traditions.
This sort of thing could well happen in a few months in the building outside my window. I'm trying to figure out what it would be called.
I just spent a while looking at the archives, where sessions and ceilidhs and their emphases and etiquettes were discussed and debated.
What we're planning sounds unlike a session. It sounds more like a ceili(dh), according to some "definitions." But I would not want to mislead possible participants, if their (or the general) understanding of the term isn't what we're imagining.
How can we best be simultaneously inclusive and restrictive? Any wisdom?
Scott
p.s. I come at this from a point of near ignorance... attempting to learn by doing without having a history of ITM studiousness, session/ceilidh attendance, etc.
Or 'public performance' and let people figure it out when they get there. *snicker*
Just kidding!
In some circles, 'ceili' seems to put an emphasis on dancing. Feili connotes feast, as in a feast day, like St. Patrick's Day. Flea or Fleadh is another word for festival, also with the feast connotation, but it has been widely adopted for music festivals in particular. If your event within an event is a party within a Flea or Feili, you'd be within rights to call it a ceili, or less formally, a hoolie.
Good suggestion, Jack. The broader event is often tagged a "fest," though, which could lead to confusion. Teaching people how to say "Féile" might be a little less trouble than "Ceilidh," however.
Thanks for insight, Will. Hoolie... that's a new one for me.
I first heard "Féile" when I happened to be in Ennis one February during an event at Cruises Pub using that word for what amounted to be bands performing, as well as sessions etc. for the weekend. When you described your event you're planning it seemed to fit the bill.
yah id call it a *hooley-faylee* and leave peole guessing after that.
You want to attaract a CROWD,right/ so you want to sell yourselves to as manyb as possible......
"ho-oly' might encourage holy persons, and reborn christians, while faylee definatly appeals to the pagans:
fairy, druid, gnome and dwarf, runes swords and deep dresses....
The front runner for what to call this thing is ceilidh. When I looked back over the archives, it seemed the ceilidh usually (not quite always) inferred a dance. Also "ceilidh" in the session archives is very frequently followed by "band." We're not intending to have this subevent become a dance hall... it is meant to be foremost participatory -- everyone brings something to it. The probably co-organizer likened it to a entertainment pot luck.
I like féile, but as I mentioned above, the full event is a festival and I don't think it would help us to have a festival within a festival.
I looked up the word "féile" in my Irish dictionary and the second meaning after "festival" is "feast"... if that helps... being an "entertainment pot luck" as you say.
a traditional ceilidh would have a "fear an taighe" a man of the house ,who would compere the event make witty comments or tell stories, maybe even play as well, but his object is to achieve a good mix of performers, story tellers, instrumentalists, singers poets etc. we had a local event without a fear an taighe, which turned into an evening of one long mournful( but very beautiful ) song after another. So , if it is a ceilidh do you have a fear an taighe? yours gummidge
In Ireland, people would ask me if we wanted to come help "make a ceili" (ceilidh is the Scottish spelling, I'm told, ceili is the Irish), and, when I inquired, they said that it simply meant to "make a party", or "make an evening's entertainment". Prior to that, I'd been under the impression that a ceili was a dance and music event.
And I believe I've read somewhere that the ancient feile was an event at which all sorts of things happened, including lawgiving and making, various local matters dealt with by local honchos, at least one feast given by said honchos, music and dancing, and a fair.
You could do something like the Swannanoa folks and simply call it A Gathering.
ceilidh (feminine) noun,is a visit. air cheilidh ; on a visit. which fits in with "I'll come round and ceilidh with you".
however that's scottish gaelic,
so I've probably been misusing the term for the past 14 years, thanks Zina for getting me to look it up!yours worzel
I think a fear an taighe is part of the plan, gummidge, though it might be good to have a gender-neutral term. And your description of a traditional ceilidh is closest to the intent of our collaborators -- a good sign.
Zina... Swannonoa sounds great. Thanks for prompting me to look it up. Your "gathering" suggestion may come into play as we promote.
When is a ceilidh a ceilidh?
A Quick report on current usage in Edinburgh toon: The older, more Gaelic-speaking culture meaning is just a visit, but can also extend to a house party, perhaps with some folk giving a song or telling a story,etc. This then became further extended to also refer to an evenings entertainment, perhaps in a hall, with a variety of singers and other performers. It still means all those things, which often causes confusion as to just what sort of event is on offer.
The most common urban usage now - and fast pervading all areas - means a dance to traditional music. (Sometimes this is helpfully advertised as a "ceilidh dance") Although, again, exactly what form this will take varies as to the specific repertoire of dances and whether there will also be singers, etc.
If this seems completely confusing, then you're getting the idea...
I'd have to agree with Kris here that irrespective of the translation of the word Céilí, most people today see it as a dancing event. Féile, to me anyway, is a more fitting title for a festival as described.
My understanding (as an outsider to both cultures) is that in Scotland the emphasis would be on songs, stories, poems, recitations, and jokes, where in Ireland it would be mostly dancing. (Of course Kris indicates that the Irish usage is taking hold in Scotland now.)
thrown by an inability to log off
two members sharing a computer. when one logs on, then the other comes along,...
I was (and continue to be) someone I am not. (Probably not the only multiple personality around here. Is there a comendium of alter egos, as a reference?)
I hope the ceilidh that seems likely at Punkinfiddle will begin a tradition for at least a little piece of south coastal Maine.
Is it a session, ceilidh, either, neither?
Is it a session, ceilidh, either, neither?
Imagine an annual, stateside, open-invitation event within an event -- a gathering of musicians, singers, dancers, humorists, and others taking part in community-oriented shared entertainment with an emphasis on the Irish, Scottish, or "celtic" traditions.
This sort of thing could well happen in a few months in the building outside my window. I'm trying to figure out what it would be called.
I just spent a while looking at the archives, where sessions and ceilidhs and their emphases and etiquettes were discussed and debated.
What we're planning sounds unlike a session. It sounds more like a ceili(dh), according to some "definitions." But I would not want to mislead possible participants, if their (or the general) understanding of the term isn't what we're imagining.
How can we best be simultaneously inclusive and restrictive? Any wisdom?
Scott
p.s. I come at this from a point of near ignorance... attempting to learn by doing without having a history of ITM studiousness, session/ceilidh attendance, etc.
# Posted on July 6th 2004 by scott.r
Re: Is it a session, ceilidh, either, neither?
How about calling it a "Féile"? It means "festival" I believe.
# Posted on July 6th 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: Is it a session, ceilidh, either, neither?
Or 'public performance' and let people figure it out when they get there. *snicker*
Just kidding!
In some circles, 'ceili' seems to put an emphasis on dancing. Feili connotes feast, as in a feast day, like St. Patrick's Day. Flea or Fleadh is another word for festival, also with the feast connotation, but it has been widely adopted for music festivals in particular. If your event within an event is a party within a Flea or Feili, you'd be within rights to call it a ceili, or less formally, a hoolie.
# Posted on July 6th 2004 by Will CPT
Re: Is it a session, ceilidh, either, neither?
Good suggestion, Jack. The broader event is often tagged a "fest," though, which could lead to confusion. Teaching people how to say "Féile" might be a little less trouble than "Ceilidh," however.
Thanks for insight, Will. Hoolie... that's a new one for me.
# Posted on July 6th 2004 by scott.r
Re: Is it a session, ceilidh, either, neither?
I first heard "Féile" when I happened to be in Ennis one February during an event at Cruises Pub using that word for what amounted to be bands performing, as well as sessions etc. for the weekend. When you described your event you're planning it seemed to fit the bill.
# Posted on July 6th 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: Is it a session, ceilidh, either, neither?
What's wrong with just calling it a festival? It's an English-speaking area isn't it?
# Posted on July 6th 2004 by Bren
Re: Is it a session, ceilidh, either, neither?
maybe a hoolie?
or just a big musical party!
# Posted on July 6th 2004 by allan21
Re: Is it a session, ceilidh, either, neither?
"Festival" works fine, but it's very generic and doesn't say anything about the Irish and Celtic emphasis. "Féile" says it with one word.
# Posted on July 6th 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: Is it a session, ceilidh, either, neither?
'Course there could be some confusion with hoolie..."Hoolie and the Bloatfish" ?
# Posted on July 6th 2004 by Will CPT
Re: Is it a session, ceilidh, either, neither?
yah id call it a *hooley-faylee* and leave peole guessing after that.
You want to attaract a CROWD,right/ so you want to sell yourselves to as manyb as possible......
"ho-oly' might encourage holy persons, and reborn christians, while faylee definatly appeals to the pagans:
fairy, druid, gnome and dwarf, runes swords and deep dresses....
# Posted on July 6th 2004 by vboyd100
Re: Is it a session, ceilidh, either, neither?
What's a "deep dress"? I'm guessing you mean medieval/renaissance style, but not sure...
# Posted on July 6th 2004 by Andee
Re: Is it a session, ceilidh, either, neither?
Could mean deep as in philosophical. A philosophical dress - a garment whose actual existance is constantly in question?
Certainly fits the profile, judging from the covers of the trashier fantasy novels
# Posted on July 6th 2004 by Q
Re: Is it a session, ceilidh, either, neither?
The front runner for what to call this thing is ceilidh. When I looked back over the archives, it seemed the ceilidh usually (not quite always) inferred a dance. Also "ceilidh" in the session archives is very frequently followed by "band." We're not intending to have this subevent become a dance hall... it is meant to be foremost participatory -- everyone brings something to it. The probably co-organizer likened it to a entertainment pot luck.
I like féile, but as I mentioned above, the full event is a festival and I don't think it would help us to have a festival within a festival.
# Posted on July 6th 2004 by scott.r
Re: Is it a session, ceilidh, either, neither?
I meant "probable"
...and even though nobody asked, the full event is called Punkinfiddle. October 9.
# Posted on July 6th 2004 by scott.r
Re: Is it a session, ceilidh, either, neither?
I looked up the word "féile" in my Irish dictionary and the second meaning after "festival" is "feast"... if that helps... being an "entertainment pot luck" as you say.
# Posted on July 7th 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: Is it a session, ceilidh, either, neither?
a traditional ceilidh would have a "fear an taighe" a man of the house ,who would compere the event make witty comments or tell stories, maybe even play as well, but his object is to achieve a good mix of performers, story tellers, instrumentalists, singers poets etc. we had a local event without a fear an taighe, which turned into an evening of one long mournful( but very beautiful ) song after another. So , if it is a ceilidh do you have a fear an taighe? yours gummidge
# Posted on July 7th 2004 by gummidge
Re: Is it a session, ceilidh, either, neither?
In Ireland, people would ask me if we wanted to come help "make a ceili" (ceilidh is the Scottish spelling, I'm told, ceili is the Irish), and, when I inquired, they said that it simply meant to "make a party", or "make an evening's entertainment". Prior to that, I'd been under the impression that a ceili was a dance and music event.
And I believe I've read somewhere that the ancient feile was an event at which all sorts of things happened, including lawgiving and making, various local matters dealt with by local honchos, at least one feast given by said honchos, music and dancing, and a fair.
You could do something like the Swannanoa folks and simply call it A Gathering.
# Posted on July 7th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Is it a session, ceilidh, either, neither?
ceilidh (feminine) noun,is a visit. air cheilidh ; on a visit. which fits in with "I'll come round and ceilidh with you".
however that's scottish gaelic,
so I've probably been misusing the term for the past 14 years, thanks Zina for getting me to look it up!yours worzel
# Posted on July 7th 2004 by gummidge
Re: Is it a session, ceilidh, either, neither?
I think a fear an taighe is part of the plan, gummidge, though it might be good to have a gender-neutral term. And your description of a traditional ceilidh is closest to the intent of our collaborators -- a good sign.
Zina... Swannonoa sounds great. Thanks for prompting me to look it up. Your "gathering" suggestion may come into play as we promote.
# Posted on July 7th 2004 by scott.r
Re: Is it a session, ceilidh, either, neither?
When is a ceilidh a ceilidh?
A Quick report on current usage in Edinburgh toon: The older, more Gaelic-speaking culture meaning is just a visit, but can also extend to a house party, perhaps with some folk giving a song or telling a story,etc. This then became further extended to also refer to an evenings entertainment, perhaps in a hall, with a variety of singers and other performers. It still means all those things, which often causes confusion as to just what sort of event is on offer.
The most common urban usage now - and fast pervading all areas - means a dance to traditional music. (Sometimes this is helpfully advertised as a "ceilidh dance") Although, again, exactly what form this will take varies as to the specific repertoire of dances and whether there will also be singers, etc.
If this seems completely confusing, then you're getting the idea...
# Posted on July 7th 2004 by kris
Re: Is it a session, ceilidh, either, neither?
in my ignorance i am feeling smarter all the time.
Thanks kris, hope to experience all those kinds of ceilidhs in your area one day.
# Posted on July 7th 2004 by Xtina
Re: Is it a session, ceilidh, either, neither?
I'd have to agree with Kris here that irrespective of the translation of the word Céilí, most people today see it as a dancing event. Féile, to me anyway, is a more fitting title for a festival as described.
# Posted on July 7th 2004 by Bannerman
Ceilidh vs Ceili
My understanding (as an outsider to both cultures) is that in Scotland the emphasis would be on songs, stories, poems, recitations, and jokes, where in Ireland it would be mostly dancing. (Of course Kris indicates that the Irish usage is taking hold in Scotland now.)
# Posted on July 7th 2004 by GaryAMartin
Identity Crisis
thrown by an inability to log off
two members sharing a computer. when one logs on, then the other comes along,...
I was (and continue to be) someone I am not. (Probably not the only multiple personality around here. Is there a comendium of alter egos, as a reference?)
I hope the ceilidh that seems likely at Punkinfiddle will begin a tradition for at least a little piece of south coastal Maine.
scott.r
...as...
# Posted on July 8th 2004 by Xtina
Re: Is it a session, ceilidh, either, neither?
compendium... sorry
# Posted on July 8th 2004 by Xtina
Re: Is it a session, ceilidh, either, neither?
haha thats funny,, kinda like tweedle dum and tweedle dee
i wish my partner would take my signature and write something.. all he does is liurk over my shoulder..
# Posted on July 8th 2004 by vboyd100