" 1. A bow on which you never have to adjust tension!
2. A bow you never have to rehair!
3. A bow weather and waterproof - plays well in humid weather!
4. A bow which is "Light as a Feather and Stronger than Steel!" (Literally!)
5. A bow which plays smoother - easier on the strings!
6. A bow which plays easier and with LOUDER VOLUME with less effort!
7. A bow which is faster in action with less fatigue!
8. A bow which will never warp!"
The bow looks something like the Baroque bow and is only $79 or $89. (USA/Canada and rest of World respectively) (I do not have any commercial interest in this )Just thought some of you might be curious.
I found Musicblade an incredibly slow site to download, and when eventually I got it up on screen and tried to access the Incredibow page within, it got even slower and collapsed - perhaps they've got server problems. I'll try again some other time. Perhaps it may be slightly quicker to access the Incredibow page directly at http://www.musicblade.com/Incredibow.htm
Still haven't managed to get at the detailed page on the Incredibow, but speaking generally, such developments are always worth looking at. The traditional bow materials, perambuco and similar woods, are in short supply (Brazil, I understand, has an embargo on its export) and are difficult to work with. Even the best bow makers expect a wastage rate of about 80%, and the playability of a bow cannot be determined until it has been finished. Hence the drive to look at new bow materials which can closely approximate the behaviour of a good perambuco stick in a way that is 100% reproducible throughout the manufacturing process - so significantly lower costs. Carbon-fibre bows, for example, have been around some time and many players, even at professional classical level, swear by them. Even bows at the cheap end of the carbon-fibre range (about £80) are great for session work and are next to unbreakable (I use one myself).
Some bow makers are looking at a composite of perambuco with carbon-fibre so as to get the best of both materials. I'd also envisage something like a composite bow with a core consisting of a thin sliver of a single-crystal metal alloy, perhaps titanium based. Such single-crystal materials, having tremendous strength and lightness, are now being used for extreme engineering applications such as blades for jet engines. There's plenty of scope for exchange of ideas between different disciplines.
A "Carbondix" carbon fiber bow (one of those mentioned by Trevor J as "at the cheap end" = ~100 euro) has been mine for almost a year now, and I've never looked back. IMHO far better than most bows I've tried in my life, in particular for ITM. Well balanced and with swift response.
For a fuller tone (occasional adventures into scandinavian music & related) I use their viola bow. Brilliant stuff!
What you need is the cyberbow by Pied Piper industries TM, which uses the latest PIC microcontroller technology featuring tortionaly modulated feedback using a super-fast chaotic inhomogeneous cellular automata, coupled to 25 magneto-ceramic actuators with phase coupling.
Obviously this runs in real-time or with stepped modular synchronicity.
Aplastic bifurcated dynamics is also possible, and the domain boundaries may be easily set.
Although at the prototyping stage the Bow is expected to retail at a very reasonable £16,000.
Very slightly off topic, but at a session the other night someone was telling me about the new "graphite" bows, which he apparently understand were not only not quite the same as carbon-fibre bows, but even better. Out of curiosity I checked it out with the good people at Bristol Violin Shop and they reported back that as far as bows are concerned "graphite" and "carbon fibre" are the same thing - "graphite" apparently being another name for "carbon fibre" in this context.
Trevor
I can't believe that a discussion on this site actually strayed into my day-job field. I can't resist the urge to induce yawns of indifference by responding on the bow materials topic, to wit:
Carbon fiber vs. graphite: there are many different types and grades of carbon fibers, derived either from pitch or polyacrylonitryl (PAN), used in composites, all are actually graphite. Stiffness and strength vary widely but the important properties for bows are the ratios of strength to density and stiffness to density (specific strength and specific stiffness), which are MUCH higher than conventional materials. You could make a carbon composite bow that is VERY light and extremely stiff if you wanted to.
Single Crystal Metals: Contrary to popular belief, these are actually not stronger than conventional metals. The reason single crystal alloys are used is because they retain a modest degree of strength to much higher temperatures than their plain old multicrystalline counterparts. Not of any value to a fiddler unless you plan to challenge Satan to a fiddling duel on his home turf.
Titanium: This metal has been sold to the gullible public as a wonder material and has been put in such rediculous applications as golf clubs, tennis rackets, fishing poles, and watch bezels; all to no purpose whatsoever except to sell exorbitantly-priced sports equipment and raise the price to legitimate users like me. Again, the only benefit titanium has over aluminum is that it retains its strength to somewhat higher temperatures. It is actually significantly weaker than plain old garden variety carbon steel. On a specific strength or specific stiffness basis, steel, titanium, and aluminum are generally equivalent, and none would be of any use in bows.
Ancient stringed instrument builders didn't know it, but the material they picked for fiddle, guitar, mandolin etc bellies has the best specific strength and stiffness of any wood: spruce. That's why it's often used for airplane wing spars.
Oh, you haven't even begun to see straying, Scott. *grin* Er...what exactly is it that you do for a living?
Actually, I'm sure ancient stringed instrument builders did know that spruce was quite strong and stiff. That's probably why they chose it. The ancients, after all, are only us only a long time back.
Zina, I'll make a guess.
Scott is obviously very well up in properties of materials. I'd say he's a materials scientist or metallurgist, possibly involved in the aero or car industry.
Trevor
Trevor scored a bullseye. Rocket scientist by day, frustrated musician lurking in the shadows by night.
Hey, I know it's a cliche, but somebody has to do it.
Actually, it's mostly jet engines but rockets too, on occasion. And to come completely clean, it's been years since they've let me do any actual science, now I just get to futz about with schedules, budgets, and manpower. gak.
I've always been amazed at what a high percentage of engineers are frustrated musicians and artists. I thought we were all supposed to be genetically doomed to be humorless drones, eking out our colorless lives, incapable of appreciating the finer things in life.
If only I'd taken those music lessons like my mother wanted ....
Ah ha. Another rocket scientist. With all the companies like Ball round here, we get lots of them. Last year we gave our friend Jim a shirt upon which I'd embroidered "Rocket Scientist" over the left pocket. ("As a matter of fact, I AM a rocket scientist.")
In the kinds of music I play (orchestra and ITM) it's surprising the number of medics, physicists, engineers and mathematicians there are.
Perhaps it's not so surprising bearing in mind that my area (Bristol and Bath) has three major universities (one with a medical school), a major aerospace industry - which I worked in for many years - and other hi-tech industries, and a big MoD establishment (God help us).
donnchad: i'd love to hear what you think of the bow when it arrives. someone recommended me one over the net, but the net blurb triggered my hype detectors so i didn't get one, but got a Coda bow instead, which i love, and use all the time now. i still really want to hear from anyone that's actually used an "Incredibow".
I sent you an email about the bow yesterday. Did you get it?? If not, basically I liked it yesterday and even more today. Its very light and easy to control. Trevor recommended leting others play it in sessons for a more objective assessment objective, which is a good idea but I only play at home and my cats havent picked up the fiddle yet (and the cow hasnt jumped over the moon either . Anyway the bow is definitely no worse than any other bow I have had and I believe it suits ITM well.
This is a somewhat shameless plug but I hope it will be of interest to people in the UK. My wife and I have started stocking some incredibows here in our online shop and also have one on ebay - we've also imported Tartini rosin (the recommended one) to get people going.
The "Incredibow"
The "Incredibow"
I will post this in links too, but you may be interested to have a look at this bow @
http://www.musicblade.com/Fiddler.htm.
According to the sales people
" 1. A bow on which you never have to adjust tension!
2. A bow you never have to rehair!
3. A bow weather and waterproof - plays well in humid weather!
4. A bow which is "Light as a Feather and Stronger than Steel!" (Literally!)
5. A bow which plays smoother - easier on the strings!
6. A bow which plays easier and with LOUDER VOLUME with less effort!
7. A bow which is faster in action with less fatigue!
8. A bow which will never warp!"
The bow looks something like the Baroque bow and is only $79 or $89. (USA/Canada and rest of World respectively) (I do not have any commercial interest in this
)Just thought some of you might be curious.
Cheers
# Posted on July 5th 2004 by donnchad
Re: The "Incredibow"
I found Musicblade an incredibly slow site to download, and when eventually I got it up on screen and tried to access the Incredibow page within, it got even slower and collapsed - perhaps they've got server problems. I'll try again some other time. Perhaps it may be slightly quicker to access the Incredibow page directly at http://www.musicblade.com/Incredibow.htm
Trevor
# Posted on July 5th 2004 by lazyhound
Re: The "Incredibow"
http://www.fiddleforum.com/fiddleforum/index.php?board=5;action=display;threadid=2486;start=0
Is a thread on another site with violinists/fiddlers disussing the bow.
PS I couldnt resist ordering one just now at that price.
# Posted on July 5th 2004 by donnchad
Re: The "Incredibow"
Still haven't managed to get at the detailed page on the Incredibow, but speaking generally, such developments are always worth looking at. The traditional bow materials, perambuco and similar woods, are in short supply (Brazil, I understand, has an embargo on its export) and are difficult to work with. Even the best bow makers expect a wastage rate of about 80%, and the playability of a bow cannot be determined until it has been finished. Hence the drive to look at new bow materials which can closely approximate the behaviour of a good perambuco stick in a way that is 100% reproducible throughout the manufacturing process - so significantly lower costs. Carbon-fibre bows, for example, have been around some time and many players, even at professional classical level, swear by them. Even bows at the cheap end of the carbon-fibre range (about £80) are great for session work and are next to unbreakable (I use one myself).
Some bow makers are looking at a composite of perambuco with carbon-fibre so as to get the best of both materials. I'd also envisage something like a composite bow with a core consisting of a thin sliver of a single-crystal metal alloy, perhaps titanium based. Such single-crystal materials, having tremendous strength and lightness, are now being used for extreme engineering applications such as blades for jet engines. There's plenty of scope for exchange of ideas between different disciplines.
# Posted on July 5th 2004 by lazyhound
Carbon Fiber Bow (was Re: The "Incredibow")
A "Carbondix" carbon fiber bow (one of those mentioned by Trevor J as "at the cheap end" = ~100 euro) has been mine for almost a year now, and I've never looked back. IMHO far better than most bows I've tried in my life, in particular for ITM. Well balanced and with swift response.
For a fuller tone (occasional adventures into scandinavian music & related) I use their viola bow. Brilliant stuff!
# Posted on July 5th 2004 by tradivarium
Re: The "Incredibow"
It has occurred to me that a composite bow with a metal core would provide some interesting entertainment on passing through airport security
Trevor
# Posted on July 5th 2004 by lazyhound
Re: The "Incredibow"
What you need is the cyberbow by Pied Piper industries TM, which uses the latest PIC microcontroller technology featuring tortionaly modulated feedback using a super-fast chaotic inhomogeneous cellular automata, coupled to 25 magneto-ceramic actuators with phase coupling.
Obviously this runs in real-time or with stepped modular synchronicity.
Aplastic bifurcated dynamics is also possible, and the domain boundaries may be easily set.
Although at the prototyping stage the Bow is expected to retail at a very reasonable £16,000.
PP Chief executive
# Posted on July 5th 2004 by Pied Piper
Re: The "Incredibow"
PP, most of that £16000 is presumably accounted for by your patent attorney's fees
Trevor
# Posted on July 6th 2004 by lazyhound
Re: The "Incredibow"
Very slightly off topic, but at a session the other night someone was telling me about the new "graphite" bows, which he apparently understand were not only not quite the same as carbon-fibre bows, but even better. Out of curiosity I checked it out with the good people at Bristol Violin Shop and they reported back that as far as bows are concerned "graphite" and "carbon fibre" are the same thing - "graphite" apparently being another name for "carbon fibre" in this context.
Trevor
# Posted on July 8th 2004 by lazyhound
Re: The "Incredibow"
I can't believe that a discussion on this site actually strayed into my day-job field. I can't resist the urge to induce yawns of indifference by responding on the bow materials topic, to wit:
Carbon fiber vs. graphite: there are many different types and grades of carbon fibers, derived either from pitch or polyacrylonitryl (PAN), used in composites, all are actually graphite. Stiffness and strength vary widely but the important properties for bows are the ratios of strength to density and stiffness to density (specific strength and specific stiffness), which are MUCH higher than conventional materials. You could make a carbon composite bow that is VERY light and extremely stiff if you wanted to.
Single Crystal Metals: Contrary to popular belief, these are actually not stronger than conventional metals. The reason single crystal alloys are used is because they retain a modest degree of strength to much higher temperatures than their plain old multicrystalline counterparts. Not of any value to a fiddler unless you plan to challenge Satan to a fiddling duel on his home turf.
Titanium: This metal has been sold to the gullible public as a wonder material and has been put in such rediculous applications as golf clubs, tennis rackets, fishing poles, and watch bezels; all to no purpose whatsoever except to sell exorbitantly-priced sports equipment and raise the price to legitimate users like me. Again, the only benefit titanium has over aluminum is that it retains its strength to somewhat higher temperatures. It is actually significantly weaker than plain old garden variety carbon steel. On a specific strength or specific stiffness basis, steel, titanium, and aluminum are generally equivalent, and none would be of any use in bows.
Ancient stringed instrument builders didn't know it, but the material they picked for fiddle, guitar, mandolin etc bellies has the best specific strength and stiffness of any wood: spruce. That's why it's often used for airplane wing spars.
There, got that out of my system.
# Posted on July 8th 2004 by ScottC
Re: The "Incredibow"
Oh, you haven't even begun to see straying, Scott. *grin* Er...what exactly is it that you do for a living?
Actually, I'm sure ancient stringed instrument builders did know that spruce was quite strong and stiff. That's probably why they chose it. The ancients, after all, are only us only a long time back.
# Posted on July 8th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: The "Incredibow"
Zina, I'll make a guess.
Scott is obviously very well up in properties of materials. I'd say he's a materials scientist or metallurgist, possibly involved in the aero or car industry.
Trevor
# Posted on July 8th 2004 by lazyhound
Re: The "Incredibow"
Trevor scored a bullseye. Rocket scientist by day, frustrated musician lurking in the shadows by night.
Hey, I know it's a cliche, but somebody has to do it.
Actually, it's mostly jet engines but rockets too, on occasion. And to come completely clean, it's been years since they've let me do any actual science, now I just get to futz about with schedules, budgets, and manpower. gak.
I've always been amazed at what a high percentage of engineers are frustrated musicians and artists. I thought we were all supposed to be genetically doomed to be humorless drones, eking out our colorless lives, incapable of appreciating the finer things in life.
If only I'd taken those music lessons like my mother wanted ....
# Posted on July 8th 2004 by ScottC
Re: The "Incredibow"
Ah ha. Another rocket scientist. With all the companies like Ball round here, we get lots of them. Last year we gave our friend Jim a shirt upon which I'd embroidered "Rocket Scientist" over the left pocket. ("As a matter of fact, I AM a rocket scientist.")
# Posted on July 8th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: The "Incredibow"
In the kinds of music I play (orchestra and ITM) it's surprising the number of medics, physicists, engineers and mathematicians there are.
Perhaps it's not so surprising bearing in mind that my area (Bristol and Bath) has three major universities (one with a medical school), a major aerospace industry - which I worked in for many years - and other hi-tech industries, and a big MoD establishment (God help us).
Trevor
# Posted on July 8th 2004 by lazyhound
Re: The "Incredibow"
donnchad: i'd love to hear what you think of the bow when it arrives. someone recommended me one over the net, but the net blurb triggered my hype detectors so i didn't get one, but got a Coda bow instead, which i love, and use all the time now. i still really want to hear from anyone that's actually used an "Incredibow".
# Posted on July 12th 2004 by rog
Re: The "Incredibow"
Rog
I sent you an email about the bow yesterday. Did you get it?? If not, basically I liked it yesterday and even more today. Its very light and easy to control. Trevor recommended leting others play it in sessons for a more objective assessment objective, which is a good idea but I only play at home and my cats havent picked up the fiddle yet (and the cow hasnt jumped over the moon either
. Anyway the bow is definitely no worse than any other bow I have had and I believe it suits ITM well.
# Posted on July 27th 2004 by donnchad
Re: The "Incredibow"
Hi all,
This is a somewhat shameless plug but I hope it will be of interest to people in the UK. My wife and I have started stocking some incredibows here in our online shop and also have one on ebay - we've also imported Tartini rosin (the recommended one) to get people going.
There's a bow and rosin on eBay at the moment at http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7306725167 and also we're getting some in to our shop at http://www.danceofdelight.com
The advantage for UK people is that you can try it out and get it quickly!
# Posted on March 9th 2005 by Mark Harmer
Re: The "Incredibow"
For in the UK, there's a number of them up on Ebay.co.uk atm
# Posted on May 29th 2007 by madfiddler