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Songs in Irish: what are they on about, and does it matter anyway, enjoyment-wise?
Songs in Irish: what are they on about, and does it matter anyway, enjoyment-wise?
Some time ago, I read a review about Kila's first album "Tog é go Bog é". The reviewer liked it a lot, using terms like "intricate tapestries of sound" and the like, and then went on to remark he wasn't able to enjoy the songs (he particularly mentioned "Bi Ann") on this album as much as he would have liked to, because he didn't understand the language.
I guess my question really comes down to this: do you have to know what a song is about in order to enjoy it fully. I mean, I know for instance that Clannad's "Dulamán" is about seaweed (or so I seem to remember), but the subject-matter, for all I care, could have been anything: the Bosnian situation, Christy Moore's shopping-list last Friday, anything really... I just like the ditty.
Re: Songs in Irish: what are they on about, and does it matter anyway, enjoyment-wise?
In my experience, they seem to be morbid reflections on lost love with lots of natural imagery. At least the two or three I've learned are.
I think it's important to have some idea what the words mean if you're interested in what the song is trying to reflect about life - if that knowledge enhances your enjoyment of a song - but *personally*, I think nothing beats outright gibberish for pure musicality. I like having to guess. It's embarassing, though, to find you've been getting teary and nostalgic for a heartbreaking melody that actually has very funny words and your gaelige speaking friends are having a giggle over your morose, sympathetic reactions. If possible, I ask for a brief overview so I know what mood to start off in.
Trouble is, even in English, some of the songs are still gibberish. "I'd build a house on a hill and have four fine milking cows and let no-one touch them but Molly of the Curly Hair bla bla bla She'd fill my pockets with money, bla bla bla She's left me bla bla bla." Gaelige doesn't translate all that well.
Although I have to point out I really know nothing... this is just what I've heard from those who know more than me, and gleaned from my three or four lessons.
Re: Songs in Irish: what are they on about, and does it matter anyway, enjoyment-wise?
So, our school performed to Peata Beg forever (four hand jig, hardshoe double jig and light jig, and a three hand jig), and we all loved it, and come to find out it's a little child's song -- and not even a particularly brill one at that! "I wish I had my steward's pet, i wish I had my steward's pet, I wish I had my steward's pet and a little white sheep..."
Re: Songs in Irish: what are they on about, and does it matter anyway, enjoyment-wise?
I love the song "Maire Mhor" which (if I'm correct) from the little Irish I know comes out to "Big Mary". I have no Idea what the rest of the song is about. But I still love it nonetheless - If the reviewer had sour grapes over listening to Irish music being sung in *gasp* Irish, he/she should suck it up & appreciate the music for what it is. Sure you'll get more out of it if you know all the words, but sometimes it's up to the listener to do the homework. The melody can still be apprecated regardless of the words, but words can add so much more.
Re: Songs in Irish: what are they on about, and does it matter anyway, enjoyment-wise?
Of course the words matter. A beautiful melody without understanding the words can be appreciated, but knowing what is being told by the lyrics is part of the history of the culture. That said, I have found that sometimes I love a melody and yet can't often sing a song to some groups of people because of the words - they are sometimes just too narrow a niche for general understanding or appreciation, and sometimes so political that you have to be careful. A beautiful melody about a hanging, the one I'm thinking of in particular, is HENRY JOY McCRACKEN. I love the song, but not everyone is going to be able to appreciate the lyrics. Many of the songs from the Irish and Scottish tradition are dour. I sang at the local library for a children's morning on St. Patrick's Day last year, and the local newspaper reporter interviewed me afterward. One of the first questions he asked me about was the melancholy nature of the songs, even though they were for children.
Getting a translation of Gaelic lyrics is always like opening a treasure chest for me. Sometimes it is an astonishing reveal, like the song An Cailin Gaelach (the Irish Girl, Altan recorded it). There is a line in English, "Pray kind sir, and let me be". One would get the impression that a woman is protecting her virtue, or something like that, but it is actually about an English speaking girl who is gathering nuts. A young man approaches her and speaks to her in Gaelic. He has plenty of cows and can make a hard working, good husband. She speaks to him back in English, and he then ends the song saying an Irish girl would appreciate what he had to offer. I love lyrics like that. I love the old imagery that was so close to nature and natural elements, such as all the birds that are referred to, the type of weather. Gaelic songs are filled with wonderful natural imagery about birds, allegorical symbols from nature... very rich meaning that doesn't translate well into flat, colorless English words.
Re: Songs in Irish: what are they on about, and does it matter anyway, enjoyment-wise?
I'm with Alice on this one....but I also love the sound of Irish lyrics even if I can't understand them. The cadence of the language is beautiful. But I prefer to have a translation provided. The songs provide a sort of snapshot of certain aspects of the culture (no matter which culture we're talking about), I think. Well.... of course they do. I shouldn't attempt to post after two nights in a row staying up late playing tunes. Gonna go lie down now...
Re: Songs in Irish: what are they on about, and does it matter anyway, enjoyment-wise?
I'm with Alice and Christine.
Words are important to understand the story, but Brad has a point as well. I really love many of this old lovely songs, even though I just get some words of them, but the musicality of the Irish language is absolutely beautiful, no matter the style (I'm thinking of Sean Nos, here), and the reviewer should be able to appreciate that.
And that happens with every kind of music, everywhere in the world.
In Spain for instance, during the sixty's and early seventy's, most of people were mad about the Beatles, and DIDN'T GET A SINGLE WORD of the lyrics, and I don't think it would have made any difference if they'd knew what SHE LOVES YOU, YEAH, YEAH means.
Re: Songs in Irish: what are they on about, and does it matter anyway, enjoyment-wise?
My vote -- doesn't matter a wit if you understand the words!
What does matter is that the sean-nois singer should convey to the listeners the feeling that all material things in the world vanish into mid-air as they sing the song. This feeling of transportation should be so 'real' as to make the audience, upon the end of the song, snap back into reality so suddenly as to be bewildered by the experience altogether. To me, that is sean-nois singing. It doesn't matter what language is used to sing it, so long as that effect is acheived. A talented sean-nois singer is nothing less than a sorcerer casting a spell upon their audience (and Gaelic seems to be their weapon of choice) !
Re: Songs in Irish: what are they on about, and does it matter anyway, enjoyment-wise?
As an example, i'm thinking of "Buchaill Caol Dubh" ("The Dark Slender Boy") who appears to the poet as the personification of whisky. Or getting drunk. Or both. Anyway, the tune is splendid, and i love hearing it in Gaelic. However, the poetry is also great in English, and just adds to the enjoyment of the song. Likewise for something like "The Brown and the Yellow Ale", which probably scans better in Irish, but it's a good story, too. I recently was given a CD of Russian folk song field recordings from the 30s-40s, and listening to those screaming women generates goosebumps--an effect that may in fact be diminished if i knew the words. So i guess it just depends.
Songs in Irish: what are they on about, and does it matter anyway, enjoyment-wise?
Songs in Irish: what are they on about, and does it matter anyway, enjoyment-wise?
Some time ago, I read a review about Kila's first album "Tog é go Bog é". The reviewer liked it a lot, using terms like "intricate tapestries of sound" and the like, and then went on to remark he wasn't able to enjoy the songs (he particularly mentioned "Bi Ann") on this album as much as he would have liked to, because he didn't understand the language.
I guess my question really comes down to this: do you have to know what a song is about in order to enjoy it fully. I mean, I know for instance that Clannad's "Dulamán" is about seaweed (or so I seem to remember), but the subject-matter, for all I care, could have been anything: the Bosnian situation, Christy Moore's shopping-list last Friday, anything really... I just like the ditty.
# Posted on March 2nd 2002 by Emerald BT
Re: Songs in Irish: what are they on about, and does it matter anyway, enjoyment-wise?
In my experience, they seem to be morbid reflections on lost love with lots of natural imagery. At least the two or three I've learned are.
I think it's important to have some idea what the words mean if you're interested in what the song is trying to reflect about life - if that knowledge enhances your enjoyment of a song - but *personally*, I think nothing beats outright gibberish for pure musicality. I like having to guess. It's embarassing, though, to find you've been getting teary and nostalgic for a heartbreaking melody that actually has very funny words and your gaelige speaking friends are having a giggle over your morose, sympathetic reactions. If possible, I ask for a brief overview so I know what mood to start off in.
Trouble is, even in English, some of the songs are still gibberish. "I'd build a house on a hill and have four fine milking cows and let no-one touch them but Molly of the Curly Hair bla bla bla She'd fill my pockets with money, bla bla bla She's left me bla bla bla." Gaelige doesn't translate all that well.
Although I have to point out I really know nothing... this is just what I've heard from those who know more than me, and gleaned from my three or four lessons.
# Posted on March 2nd 2002 by Kerri Brown
Re: Songs in Irish: what are they on about, and does it matter anyway, enjoyment-wise?
So, our school performed to Peata Beg forever (four hand jig, hardshoe double jig and light jig, and a three hand jig), and we all loved it, and come to find out it's a little child's song -- and not even a particularly brill one at that! "I wish I had my steward's pet, i wish I had my steward's pet, I wish I had my steward's pet and a little white sheep..."
Zina
# Posted on March 2nd 2002 by Zina Lee
Re: Songs in Irish: what are they on about, and does it matter anyway, enjoyment-wise?
I love the song "Maire Mhor" which (if I'm correct) from the little Irish I know comes out to "Big Mary". I have no Idea what the rest of the song is about. But I still love it nonetheless - If the reviewer had sour grapes over listening to Irish music being sung in *gasp* Irish, he/she should suck it up & appreciate the music for what it is. Sure you'll get more out of it if you know all the words, but sometimes it's up to the listener to do the homework. The melody can still be apprecated regardless of the words, but words can add so much more.
# Posted on March 2nd 2002 by Mad Baloney
Re: Songs in Irish: what are they on about, and does it matter anyway, enjoyment-wise?
Of course the words matter. A beautiful melody without understanding the words can be appreciated, but knowing what is being told by the lyrics is part of the history of the culture. That said, I have found that sometimes I love a melody and yet can't often sing a song to some groups of people because of the words - they are sometimes just too narrow a niche for general understanding or appreciation, and sometimes so political that you have to be careful. A beautiful melody about a hanging, the one I'm thinking of in particular, is HENRY JOY McCRACKEN. I love the song, but not everyone is going to be able to appreciate the lyrics. Many of the songs from the Irish and Scottish tradition are dour. I sang at the local library for a children's morning on St. Patrick's Day last year, and the local newspaper reporter interviewed me afterward. One of the first questions he asked me about was the melancholy nature of the songs, even though they were for children.
Getting a translation of Gaelic lyrics is always like opening a treasure chest for me. Sometimes it is an astonishing reveal, like the song An Cailin Gaelach (the Irish Girl, Altan recorded it). There is a line in English, "Pray kind sir, and let me be". One would get the impression that a woman is protecting her virtue, or something like that, but it is actually about an English speaking girl who is gathering nuts. A young man approaches her and speaks to her in Gaelic. He has plenty of cows and can make a hard working, good husband. She speaks to him back in English, and he then ends the song saying an Irish girl would appreciate what he had to offer. I love lyrics like that. I love the old imagery that was so close to nature and natural elements, such as all the birds that are referred to, the type of weather. Gaelic songs are filled with wonderful natural imagery about birds, allegorical symbols from nature... very rich meaning that doesn't translate well into flat, colorless English words.
Alice
# Posted on March 3rd 2002 by aliceflynn
Re: Songs in Irish: what are they on about, and does it matter anyway, enjoyment-wise?
I'm with Alice on this one....but I also love the sound of Irish lyrics even if I can't understand them. The cadence of the language is beautiful. But I prefer to have a translation provided. The songs provide a sort of snapshot of certain aspects of the culture (no matter which culture we're talking about), I think. Well.... of course they do. I shouldn't attempt to post after two nights in a row staying up late playing tunes. Gonna go lie down now...
# Posted on March 3rd 2002 by soft black stars
Re: Songs in Irish: what are they on about, and does it matter anyway, enjoyment-wise?
I'm with Alice and Christine.
Words are important to understand the story, but Brad has a point as well. I really love many of this old lovely songs, even though I just get some words of them, but the musicality of the Irish language is absolutely beautiful, no matter the style (I'm thinking of Sean Nos, here), and the reviewer should be able to appreciate that.
And that happens with every kind of music, everywhere in the world.
In Spain for instance, during the sixty's and early seventy's, most of people were mad about the Beatles, and DIDN'T GET A SINGLE WORD of the lyrics, and I don't think it would have made any difference if they'd knew what SHE LOVES YOU, YEAH, YEAH means.
# Posted on March 3rd 2002 by Toni Ribas
Re: Songs in Irish: what are they on about, and does it matter anyway, enjoyment-wise?
My vote -- doesn't matter a wit if you understand the words!
What does matter is that the sean-nois singer should convey to the listeners the feeling that all material things in the world vanish into mid-air as they sing the song. This feeling of transportation should be so 'real' as to make the audience, upon the end of the song, snap back into reality so suddenly as to be bewildered by the experience altogether. To me, that is sean-nois singing. It doesn't matter what language is used to sing it, so long as that effect is acheived. A talented sean-nois singer is nothing less than a sorcerer casting a spell upon their audience (and Gaelic seems to be their weapon of choice) !
# Posted on March 6th 2002 by Caoimghgin
Re: Songs in Irish: what are they on about, and does it matter anyway, enjoyment-wise?
As an example, i'm thinking of "Buchaill Caol Dubh" ("The Dark Slender Boy") who appears to the poet as the personification of whisky. Or getting drunk. Or both. Anyway, the tune is splendid, and i love hearing it in Gaelic. However, the poetry is also great in English, and just adds to the enjoyment of the song. Likewise for something like "The Brown and the Yellow Ale", which probably scans better in Irish, but it's a good story, too. I recently was given a CD of Russian folk song field recordings from the 30s-40s, and listening to those screaming women generates goosebumps--an effect that may in fact be diminished if i knew the words. So i guess it just depends.
# Posted on March 8th 2002 by cliff