Any recordings listed in the recordings section here which represent a "full house", i.e. every tune listed links through to the abc/dots in the tunes database? I know that the tunes database - excellent resource though it is and thanks to Jeremy and to all those who've populated it! - isn't infallible and that sometimes a link will take you through to Morrison's REEL rather than Morrison's JIG, etc. etc.
I'm not concerned about the accuracy ... merely whether every tune in the recording is listed in the heavy type which indicates that there's a tune of the same title listed in the database!
I'd say that's because Cooley chose great tunes and then went on to make them all standards...and also because that recording was made very shortly before he shuffled off his mortal coil, he was playing his own self-made standards, if you like. We are most fortunate to have that recording available at all, IMHO.
What do these CDs (full house) all have in common? They are all older recordings by people who were either protagonists of ITM or on the cutting edge of the revival. These recordings are usually the source for material recorded by influential musicians that followed them. The tunes have become standards as a result of these musicians and their popularity combined with historic and well-circulated recordings. There are a lot of great tunes just as old but they weren't loaded onto the front end of the ITM revival train.
Cheers snorre! And trust Conan to be first off the blocks! Ye'll have to watch yourself there, big lod, or ye'll be getting a repumatation as being near as much of a nerd as myself!
Of course, the other problem is that if the recording features a few songs and/or airs, then it's unlikely to make it into the small list of "full houses".
And what about "empty houses"? Where people have added a list of tracks (sometimes folky but certainly not ITM), and not surprisingly, nothing is in the database.
I believe some of the Battlefield Band recordings posted here are "empty houses." Probably due to the avoidance of Scottish music in the tune database.
I think it's relevant to note these because they are collections - in whole or mostly - of traditional songs sung in Ireland. I also happen to think that these albums are pretty tasty and would more than likely have tremendous appeal to the folks who visit thesession. (Plus, I'm a bit concerned that many sessioneers nowadays are "anti" songs, whereas I see tunes and songs as being part of a "whole" picture. When I grew up you played if you were fortunate to be able, and you sang if you were fortunate to be able and you did both if you were doubly fortunate. People like John Kennedy and Packie Byrne mentioned above switch between tunes and songs with ease; they don't draw distinctions. People like Cathal McConnell, Seamus and Breandan O'Beaglaioch do likewise; it's a great gift!)
There are, however, some recordings which I've seen listed in the database here and I ponder their relevance. Just consider how many S******e S**n and M****n C****y albums are listed here. Doubtless they are fine albums and worth a listen if you're into that sort of thing. But some would argue that they're about as relevant to Irish Traditional Music as, say, other fine albums which are worth a listen such as Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band or Kind Of Blue or Doolittle or ...
I don't think, jdave, that there's a deliberate policy of "avoiding" Scottish tunes in the database.
The introductory paragraph in the site's home page states the following:
The exchange of tunes is what keeps traditional Irish music alive. This website is one way of passing on jigs, reels and other dance tunes.
It's hardly surprising that the tunes database is going to focus on Irish tunes. If the site intro read "The exchange of tunes is what keeps traditional Irish, Scottish, Cape Breton, Galician, Asturian, English, Welsh, Manx, etc. etc. tunes alive" then it would probably attract a clientele with a less specific focus. (And would probably end up becoming a bit of a dog's dinner as a result.) Presumably, the site's focus reflects Jeremy's own focus and that of the majority of people who are drawn here ...
I heartily agree, Aidan. The focus should be on Irish, but since Scottish music is more similiar to ITM than Galician, Manx, etc. is, I'm surprised that there aren't more STM tunes posted.
That said, I'm not advocating the influx of general "celtic" tunes nor am I a rabid Scottish fan who wants to flood the database with pipe marches and quicksteps!
Yeah great thread Aidan, and Danny is spot-on about why certain recordings are full houses. Regarding Scottish Traditional Music, I'm a big fan. I'd love to see more STM tunes here so I'll put my money where my mouth is and start contributing a few more.
A lot of Scottish tunes find their way into the Irish canon - and vice versa - quite organically. In fact there are really big areas of overlap where tunes are nowadays so integral to both traditions that even to describe them as Scottish or Irish is a tad meaningless. Take Miss McLeod's (probably the premier exemplar) ... a tune which is so deeply embedded in the tradition of Irish music (and American old-timey music) that its Scottish provenance is undisputed but somehow irrelevant. It's a great tune which has been easily assimilated into a number of cultures!
Michael Coleman's volume 1 would be if track 7 had been entered properly and if the O'Neill's in track 4 had been matched up with one of the several O'Neill's in the database http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display.php/32
The Tulla Ceili Band's 50th anniversary CD might be a full house if "Butcher's" is either the Butcher's March or the Butcher's Fancy in the database and P. Joe's is P. Joe's Pecurious Pachelbel Special. http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display.php/894
Interesting. I did a google search for "The Old Schoolmaster's Door" (One of the two tracks not posted in the tunes section, the other being Carrickfergus) and came up with one hit. And of course it was the track listing here at TheSession. It also doesn't show up on JC's tunefinder. I'll have to listen to it this evening.
Full House!
Full House!
Any recordings listed in the recordings section here which represent a "full house", i.e. every tune listed links through to the abc/dots in the tunes database? I know that the tunes database - excellent resource though it is and thanks to Jeremy and to all those who've populated it! - isn't infallible and that sometimes a link will take you through to Morrison's REEL rather than Morrison's JIG, etc. etc.
I'm not concerned about the accuracy ... merely whether every tune in the recording is listed in the heavy type which indicates that there's a tune of the same title listed in the database!
# Posted on June 17th 2004 by Aidan Crossey
Re: Full House!
Yup!
I thought of "A Tribute to Joe Cooley" immediately, but it wasn't quite there.
However....
http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display.php/211
# Posted on June 17th 2004 by Conán McDonnell
Re: Full House!
I'd say that's because Cooley chose great tunes and then went on to make them all standards...and also because that recording was made very shortly before he shuffled off his mortal coil, he was playing his own self-made standards, if you like. We are most fortunate to have that recording available at all, IMHO.
# Posted on June 17th 2004 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Full House!
An historic recording of irish music, paddy canny etc.
I only happen to know because I posted that one. Are you assembling a "thesession trivia" page?
# Posted on June 17th 2004 by Test
Re: Full House!
What do these CDs (full house) all have in common? They are all older recordings by people who were either protagonists of ITM or on the cutting edge of the revival. These recordings are usually the source for material recorded by influential musicians that followed them. The tunes have become standards as a result of these musicians and their popularity combined with historic and well-circulated recordings. There are a lot of great tunes just as old but they weren't loaded onto the front end of the ITM revival train.
# Posted on June 17th 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: Full House!
"If The Cap Fits", Kevin Burke.
# Posted on June 17th 2004 by -esther-
Re: Full House!
I filled in all the dance tunes on "Chieftains" 1 and Mary Bergin's 1st and am working towards several more. "Gan Ainm's are a problem, of course.
# Posted on June 17th 2004 by Kenny
Re: Full House!
Good thread Aidan! BTW your CD is great!
Snorre
# Posted on June 17th 2004 by snorre
Re: Full House!
Cheers snorre! And trust Conan to be first off the blocks! Ye'll have to watch yourself there, big lod, or ye'll be getting a repumatation as being near as much of a nerd as myself!
# Posted on June 17th 2004 by Aidan Crossey
Re: Full House!
Of course, the other problem is that if the recording features a few songs and/or airs, then it's unlikely to make it into the small list of "full houses".
# Posted on June 17th 2004 by Aidan Crossey
Re: Full House!
Nearly ...! http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display.php/281
# Posted on June 17th 2004 by Aidan Crossey
Re: Full House!
And what about "empty houses"? Where people have added a list of tracks (sometimes folky but certainly not ITM), and not surprisingly, nothing is in the database.
# Posted on June 17th 2004 by geoffwright
Re: Full House!
I believe some of the Battlefield Band recordings posted here are "empty houses." Probably due to the avoidance of Scottish music in the tune database.
# Posted on June 17th 2004 by jdave
Re: Full House!
Good point, Geoff.
Occasionally I've listed a recording which mainly consists of songs. Here are a few examples ...
Mary MacPartlan's The Holland Handkerchief http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display.php/922
John Kennedy's The Girls Along The Road http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display.php/761
Packie Byrne's Donegal and Back http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display.php/760
Roisin White's The First Of My Rambles http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display.php/1043
I think it's relevant to note these because they are collections - in whole or mostly - of traditional songs sung in Ireland. I also happen to think that these albums are pretty tasty and would more than likely have tremendous appeal to the folks who visit thesession. (Plus, I'm a bit concerned that many sessioneers nowadays are "anti" songs, whereas I see tunes and songs as being part of a "whole" picture. When I grew up you played if you were fortunate to be able, and you sang if you were fortunate to be able and you did both if you were doubly fortunate. People like John Kennedy and Packie Byrne mentioned above switch between tunes and songs with ease; they don't draw distinctions. People like Cathal McConnell, Seamus and Breandan O'Beaglaioch do likewise; it's a great gift!)
There are, however, some recordings which I've seen listed in the database here and I ponder their relevance. Just consider how many S******e S**n and M****n C****y albums are listed here. Doubtless they are fine albums and worth a listen if you're into that sort of thing. But some would argue that they're about as relevant to Irish Traditional Music as, say, other fine albums which are worth a listen such as Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band or Kind Of Blue or Doolittle or ...
# Posted on June 17th 2004 by Aidan Crossey
Re: Full House!
I don't think, jdave, that there's a deliberate policy of "avoiding" Scottish tunes in the database.
The introductory paragraph in the site's home page states the following:
The exchange of tunes is what keeps traditional Irish music alive. This website is one way of passing on jigs, reels and other dance tunes.
It's hardly surprising that the tunes database is going to focus on Irish tunes. If the site intro read "The exchange of tunes is what keeps traditional Irish, Scottish, Cape Breton, Galician, Asturian, English, Welsh, Manx, etc. etc. tunes alive" then it would probably attract a clientele with a less specific focus. (And would probably end up becoming a bit of a dog's dinner as a result.) Presumably, the site's focus reflects Jeremy's own focus and that of the majority of people who are drawn here ...
# Posted on June 17th 2004 by Aidan Crossey
Re: Full House!
I heartily agree, Aidan. The focus should be on Irish, but since Scottish music is more similiar to ITM than Galician, Manx, etc. is, I'm surprised that there aren't more STM tunes posted.
That said, I'm not advocating the influx of general "celtic" tunes nor am I a rabid Scottish fan who wants to flood the database with pipe marches and quicksteps!
But I'm also off topic...
-Jonathan
# Posted on June 17th 2004 by jdave
Re: Full House!
Yeah great thread Aidan, and Danny is spot-on about why certain recordings are full houses. Regarding Scottish Traditional Music, I'm a big fan. I'd love to see more STM tunes here so I'll put my money where my mouth is and start contributing a few more.
C
# Posted on June 17th 2004 by Conán McDonnell
Re: Full House!
A lot of Scottish tunes find their way into the Irish canon - and vice versa - quite organically. In fact there are really big areas of overlap where tunes are nowadays so integral to both traditions that even to describe them as Scottish or Irish is a tad meaningless. Take Miss McLeod's (probably the premier exemplar) ... a tune which is so deeply embedded in the tradition of Irish music (and American old-timey music) that its Scottish provenance is undisputed but somehow irrelevant. It's a great tune which has been easily assimilated into a number of cultures!
# Posted on June 17th 2004 by Aidan Crossey
Re: Full House!
Back on tracks ... another close one, but no cigar!
http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display.php/928
# Posted on June 17th 2004 by Aidan Crossey
Re: Full House!
Oh, Paddy ... if you hadn't given Roisin Dubh an airing, I'd have got myself a point here!
http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display.php/25
# Posted on June 17th 2004 by Aidan Crossey
HOORAY!!!!!! MY NAME IS AIDAN CROSSEY AND I CLAIM SECOND PRIZE
http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display.php/1028
A "thesessionwhack" if ever I saw one!
# Posted on June 17th 2004 by Aidan Crossey
Re: Full House!
The Canny, Hayes, O'Laughlin, Lafferty album is a full house
http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display.php/868
Also Kevin Burke's "If the Cap Fits"
http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display.php/210
Kevin Burke's "In Concert" would probably be a full house if track 9, "Sean Ryan's Jigs" gave specific titles.
http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display.php/60
Michael Coleman's volume 1 would be if track 7 had been entered properly and if the O'Neill's in track 4 had been matched up with one of the several O'Neill's in the database
http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display.php/32
The Tulla Ceili Band's 50th anniversary CD might be a full house if "Butcher's" is either the Butcher's March or the Butcher's Fancy in the database and P. Joe's is P. Joe's Pecurious Pachelbel Special.
http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display.php/894
# Posted on June 18th 2004 by GaryAMartin
Re: Full House!
Well done that man! Round of applause!
# Posted on June 18th 2004 by Aidan Crossey
Re: Full House!
I don't have them in front of me but I'd bet that the Na Connery cd's would be close to 'full houses'
# Posted on June 18th 2004 by Tusong200
Re: Full House!
'Fraid not ... http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display.php/68 and http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display.php/67
# Posted on June 18th 2004 by Aidan Crossey
Re: Full House!
Fraid not in that they're not the full monty ... but they are, as you point out, pretty close!
# Posted on June 18th 2004 by Aidan Crossey
Re: Full House!
Interesting. I did a google search for "The Old Schoolmaster's Door" (One of the two tracks not posted in the tunes section, the other being Carrickfergus) and came up with one hit. And of course it was the track listing here at TheSession. It also doesn't show up on JC's tunefinder. I'll have to listen to it this evening.
# Posted on June 18th 2004 by Tusong200
Re: Full House!
http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display.php/47 This one actually IS a full house. It's just that Phelim's Frolics and The Clogger's Quilt are misspelt!
# Posted on October 5th 2004 by Aidan Crossey
Re: Full House!
Paddy In The Smoke http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display.php/281
# Posted on October 14th 2004 by Aidan Crossey
Re: Full House!
http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display.php/580 Between The Sets, Barefield Ceili Band
http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display.php/214 Traditional Music From East Clare, Mary MacNamara
# Posted on October 14th 2004 by Aidan Crossey