We're having some problems with people who live by or above the pubs where sessions usually take place. Here in Spain is difficult enough to find sessions but it's getting worse. Local authorities are impulsing restrictive laws about live music in pubs, and if you're seen going into the pub with your guitar, fiddle, or any strange case... the session is in clear danger. Pub owner's are more and more reluctant day by day.
I think the problem is that they don't know what this is all about, because if you realise session music is far less loud than music from a CD player.
I don't know how all this will end. Anyway, we can always move to Ireland. Ill let you know.
Yes, Grego, they have to pay a special license, and I think it's a important amount of money, so the easiest way is not to pay it and stop live music. Pubs which get the license prefer rock, blues or pop music, more comercial styles. I hope there's still someone who loves our music enough and gets on with it.
Don't think so, Cath. Once we start playing everything goes fine, and the session finishes in a natural way. The main problem is that there are less and less pubs to play, specially when the first fees appeared. Right now sessions take place seldom and not anymore on weekends.
I agree with Cath that landlords can been unpredictable and the "neighbours" problem is a very common story. However, on really busy nights when there's lots of drink being sold, they are not so quick in closing the bar or chucking people out. For some reason, the neighbours don't appear to complain on these nights.
Here in the US, churches, schools, and firefighter companies usually have halls that can be used. They usually charge a fee for something big like a wedding reception, but they might let a small group of musicians meet for free (especially firefighters; here in the US, there's a strong tradition of Irish becoming firefighters).
I know that the pub atmosphere is more appealing, but it's the music that's important.
Or, how about house sessions? We've had a couple of very successful ones just getting together in someone's house.
Here in Barcelona, we're forced to stop playing at midnight, because the neighbours upstairs complain as well.
Grego, it's not only that the pubs need an special license, they have to soundproof the room as well (which is extremely expensive).
That's why many pubs just stop having music after the first police visit.
In reply to Cath and John - fair enough, but remember when we get "locked in" after hours, it's the landlord/lady's prerogative. Maybe they are just being polite when they say "The Neighbours", maybe what they really mean is:
"Although youse are great, I can't play, so I'm not adrenalined up or jarred up like you guys, as a matter of fact I'm cream-crackered having been on my feet from 9:00am till now (2:00am), so will ye please shut the f@ck up and get home and let me get to my kip!"
I'm in Valencia. I'm sure that sometimes this "noise problem" is merely psicological. I mean, once they see you with a musical instrument case, neighbours are extremely perceptive.
We've had a couple of session in a music school in a little village close to our town, and had a really good time.
But don't worry, I won't stop playing as long as my fingers remain in my hands.
Jorge, you'll find that your fingers will be happier ON your hands. Don't mind me though, my Spanish is terrible.
what if you invent a theme for the evening's music to persuade the neighbours that it's for a good cause eg the hat will be passed around for the retired police officers club or for the church of the Santa patrone of bodhràns or whatever.
I agree with you there, Danny, about the "lock ins", that is. Actually, they're not so common nowadays in Scotland because our licensing laws have been much more liberal in recent years. They can still happen at festivals, some hotels, perhaps where there are visiting musicians, and in certain pubs-which I should allow to remain nameless. On most nights though, the official closing time of 1.00, 2.00 or occasionally 03.00 am is late enough.
However, you'll get times when the staff want to close the bar early -maybe, because they're tired, as you say-even though they have license to open later. Some publicans are really crafty and *do* have a later license which they seldom use and you think they're doing you a good turn. They are but just because it suits them.
You're right, though. We should still have consideration for our hosts too and respect their feelings. It's just that opening times have become a bit of grey area in Scotland these days.
um...maybe I'm missing something, but if people choose to make their residence above a *pub* shouldn't they expect there to be more noise, music and various activity late at night?? If I want peace and quiet, I certainly wouldn't live above a pub..that's just plain common sense!
Strange people choose to live above pubs, though and they acquire these gadgets to measure decibels, make tape recordings etc and so on. It's quite a full time hobby for some of them.
Worse still are those customers who love a certain pub *so much* that they buy a flat above it. When they move in, they stop drinking there and start complaining about the noise. Prior to this, they were among the biggest "party people" there-getting "locked in" etc but it all changes. This happens quite a lot, surprisingly.
Complaining neighbours have almost killed the (once legendary)inner city pub music scene in my old hometown of Melbourne.
The very people who moved in because they wanted that inner urban buzz.
Well Joyce, most people had their residence there BEFORE the pub was even opened. So it isn't really their fault.
But, arguably, if one chooses to live above a pub, they can't complain.
Oh wow, that puts a new twist to the picture. Where I'm living now, you would have to go through a very tedious zoning board process to set up a pub where residents live. PLUS you would have to get permission from ALL surrounding residents and business owners beforehand.
I do have sympathy for these residents then. I bet their property value automatically decreased when the pub moved in. And if they have mortgages, I'm guessing they might not be able to sell their property without taking a substantial loss. Although I don't know anything about property value or zoning laws in Spain....
Well either way, it's a very unfortunate situation. I hope it works out somehow for Jorge and his session mates.
problems with neighbours
problems with neighbours
We're having some problems with people who live by or above the pubs where sessions usually take place. Here in Spain is difficult enough to find sessions but it's getting worse. Local authorities are impulsing restrictive laws about live music in pubs, and if you're seen going into the pub with your guitar, fiddle, or any strange case... the session is in clear danger. Pub owner's are more and more reluctant day by day.
I think the problem is that they don't know what this is all about, because if you realise session music is far less loud than music from a CD player.
I don't know how all this will end. Anyway, we can always move to Ireland. Ill let you know.
# Posted on June 9th 2004 by jorge o'lochlainn
Re: problems with neighbours
Sounds bad, jorge. Is it that the pubs need to be licensed to have live music?
# Posted on June 9th 2004 by grego
Re: problems with neighbours
Yes, Grego, they have to pay a special license, and I think it's a important amount of money, so the easiest way is not to pay it and stop live music. Pubs which get the license prefer rock, blues or pop music, more comercial styles. I hope there's still someone who loves our music enough and gets on with it.
# Posted on June 9th 2004 by jorge o'lochlainn
Re: problems with neighbours
I also wonder sometimes if the landlord uses this as an excuse to turf you out of doors early.
# Posted on June 9th 2004 by Cath
Re: problems with neighbours
Don't think so, Cath. Once we start playing everything goes fine, and the session finishes in a natural way. The main problem is that there are less and less pubs to play, specially when the first fees appeared. Right now sessions take place seldom and not anymore on weekends.
# Posted on June 9th 2004 by jorge o'lochlainn
Re: problems with neighbours
I agree with Cath that landlords can been unpredictable and the "neighbours" problem is a very common story. However, on really busy nights when there's lots of drink being sold, they are not so quick in closing the bar or chucking people out. For some reason, the neighbours don't appear to complain on these nights.
John (occasional cynic)
# Posted on June 9th 2004 by Johnny Jay
Re: problems with neighbours
Do you have other options aside from pubs?
Here in the US, churches, schools, and firefighter companies usually have halls that can be used. They usually charge a fee for something big like a wedding reception, but they might let a small group of musicians meet for free (especially firefighters; here in the US, there's a strong tradition of Irish becoming firefighters).
I know that the pub atmosphere is more appealing, but it's the music that's important.
Or, how about house sessions? We've had a couple of very successful ones just getting together in someone's house.
Len
# Posted on June 9th 2004 by KeepFiddlin'
Re: problems with neighbours
Where in spain are you, Jorge ??
Here in Barcelona, we're forced to stop playing at midnight, because the neighbours upstairs complain as well.
Grego, it's not only that the pubs need an special license, they have to soundproof the room as well (which is extremely expensive).
That's why many pubs just stop having music after the first police visit.
# Posted on June 9th 2004 by Toni Ribas
Re: problems with neighbours
In reply to Cath and John - fair enough, but remember when we get "locked in" after hours, it's the landlord/lady's prerogative. Maybe they are just being polite when they say "The Neighbours", maybe what they really mean is:
"Although youse are great, I can't play, so I'm not adrenalined up or jarred up like you guys, as a matter of fact I'm cream-crackered having been on my feet from 9:00am till now (2:00am), so will ye please shut the f@ck up and get home and let me get to my kip!"
# Posted on June 9th 2004 by Rudall the time
Re: problems with neighbours
I'm in Valencia. I'm sure that sometimes this "noise problem" is merely psicological. I mean, once they see you with a musical instrument case, neighbours are extremely perceptive.
We've had a couple of session in a music school in a little village close to our town, and had a really good time.
But don't worry, I won't stop playing as long as my fingers remain in my hands.
# Posted on June 9th 2004 by jorge o'lochlainn
Re: problems with neighbours
Jorge, you'll find that your fingers will be happier ON your hands. Don't mind me though, my Spanish is terrible.
what if you invent a theme for the evening's music to persuade the neighbours that it's for a good cause eg the hat will be passed around for the retired police officers club or for the church of the Santa patrone of bodhràns or whatever.
# Posted on June 10th 2004 by Joe Quinn
Re: problems with neighbours
I agree with you there, Danny, about the "lock ins", that is. Actually, they're not so common nowadays in Scotland because our licensing laws have been much more liberal in recent years. They can still happen at festivals, some hotels, perhaps where there are visiting musicians, and in certain pubs-which I should allow to remain nameless. On most nights though, the official closing time of 1.00, 2.00 or occasionally 03.00 am is late enough.
However, you'll get times when the staff want to close the bar early -maybe, because they're tired, as you say-even though they have license to open later. Some publicans are really crafty and *do* have a later license which they seldom use and you think they're doing you a good turn. They are but just because it suits them.
You're right, though. We should still have consideration for our hosts too and respect their feelings. It's just that opening times have become a bit of grey area in Scotland these days.
# Posted on June 10th 2004 by Johnny Jay
Re: problems with neighbours
um...maybe I'm missing something, but if people choose to make their residence above a *pub* shouldn't they expect there to be more noise, music and various activity late at night?? If I want peace and quiet, I certainly wouldn't live above a pub..that's just plain common sense!
Jorge, that's awful! I wish you the best of luck!
# Posted on June 10th 2004 by JMH
Re: problems with neighbours
Strange people choose to live above pubs, though and they acquire these gadgets to measure decibels, make tape recordings etc and so on. It's quite a full time hobby for some of them.
Worse still are those customers who love a certain pub *so much* that they buy a flat above it. When they move in, they stop drinking there and start complaining about the noise. Prior to this, they were among the biggest "party people" there-getting "locked in" etc but it all changes. This happens quite a lot, surprisingly.
# Posted on June 10th 2004 by Johnny Jay
Re: problems with neighbours
Take your sessions somewhere else, and to hell with the publicans!
# Posted on June 10th 2004 by Hanley
Re: problems with neighbours
Complaining neighbours have almost killed the (once legendary)inner city pub music scene in my old hometown of Melbourne.
The very people who moved in because they wanted that inner urban buzz.
# Posted on June 10th 2004 by Bren
Re: problems with neighbours
Well Joyce, most people had their residence there BEFORE the pub was even opened. So it isn't really their fault.
But, arguably, if one chooses to live above a pub, they can't complain.
# Posted on June 10th 2004 by Toni Ribas
Re: problems with neighbours
Oh wow, that puts a new twist to the picture. Where I'm living now, you would have to go through a very tedious zoning board process to set up a pub where residents live. PLUS you would have to get permission from ALL surrounding residents and business owners beforehand.
I do have sympathy for these residents then. I bet their property value automatically decreased when the pub moved in. And if they have mortgages, I'm guessing they might not be able to sell their property without taking a substantial loss. Although I don't know anything about property value or zoning laws in Spain....
Well either way, it's a very unfortunate situation. I hope it works out somehow for Jorge and his session mates.
Joyce
# Posted on June 11th 2004 by JMH