This week's session had 18 or 20 folks and about 15 seats. 5 seats were taken by bodhrans, two of whom occasionally tapped out a beat, none of whom could ever tell what tune was being played. Meanwhile fiddlers mandolinists and a guitarist were begging for a seat. Shouldn't there be a law limiting the number of bodhran beaters? Week after week it's the same thing.
To have a great bodhran player at a session is nothing less than a blessing. Unfortunatly, it's a rare blessing within the ITM session to have only one bodhran player. Without the intervention of a session 'Nazi' (a session leader how isn't afraid to kick butt and control the sound of the music), this phenomina is almost always to be seen.
Having a session 'Nazi' telling certain people not to play has the risk of fomenting bad feelings and can give an unwanted 'elistist' attitude towards the session. But the fact remains that in most sessions in Ireland (only by second-hand information do I report this) bodhran players are generally considerate enough to allow only one or two players to back the tunes.
By default, sessions in American cities or towns must be (in some cosmic sense) artificial in nature. The hard-nosed tactics of the session-Nazi may be the only recourse to push sessions into a semi-natural state.
*Please, be sure that any offence I may have commited in the writing of this post is purely non-malicious in nature!*
18 or 20! Wow, that's a huge session -- surely it's time to split it up so there's fewer players? That would also help the bodhran situation a bit, but really, the thing that'll help is when they learn that there should only be one bodhran playing for about 7 other players, usually, and that's a matter of good taste -- good luck teaching that one!
Yes Zina, it's huge and at times is larger. I like your Golden Rule of the 7/1 ratio as well as the 2 drum limit offered earlier. Perhaps we could hire the equivalent to the fire marshall, the music marshall in this case to inspect the session and cite those bodhran violators.
You know, someone ought to put out a pamphlet of basic session etiquette and hand it out. That way, no-one is offended for being singled out. They can plainly see the rules apply to everyone if everyone gets a book of the rules.
It could be very positive, doesn't have to come off snobby or exclusive - Just the ten ingredients for a fabulous session.
Number one would be Zina's 7:1 melody:rhythm ratio. As far as accompaniment is concerned, less is more. Take turns.
Number two would be not everybody has to be playing all the time. It can be as enjoyable to listen to a pipe / flute duet as it is to play with a cacophany of blazing fiddles and bazoukis.
Number three would be try not to dominate the tune selections. Start off a set, maybe two sets, but then give up the talking stick.
Anyone have suggestions for 4 through 10? Something should be said about tempo, and something else about volume.
Anyway, if I were having etiquette troubles at my session, I'd anonymously write up an "article" and say hey, look what I found. This is really neat. Want a copy? Thank heavens no-one comes to my sessions so I don't have any etiquette problems.
I'm a drummer and I find myself playing less and less because I'm so uncomfortable with the number of bodhrans that have been showing up lately (and playing continuously). Some say, "Just go ahead and play; don't worry about it. You're here to learn and enjoy yourself." Then a voice inside me says, "Don't, you're not supposed to. They say only one or two drums per session. You're probably ticking someone off if you add to the noise." And I talk myself out of playing. Not that I'm a maestro or anything. Sometimes the drummers that show up are better than I. (That doesn't take much! Yep, I can keep a even, steady beat, but that's about it right now.)
Oh, the trials and tribulations of a drummer! o *angel smiley*
Gee Linda, you've made me feel bad to think I"ve discouraged anyone from drumming at a session. I only want to dicourage them at our session. My problem is when seating is short and the drummers are occupying in this week's case, 1/3 of the seating. And like I said none of them could tell you if we were doing the Kesh.
Linda, sad as it is, there's a hard, cold reality that too many bodhrans muck up the rhythm, and you're right to leave it in the bag if you see 2 or 3 going already. My advice: show up earlier than the other bodhran players. if you're the first, someone else will be the one to bow out in the end.
There are different types of sessions, of course, and some will be more accepting of muddy accompaniment than others. The question is, what do YOU want to listen to and what do YOU want to play with. It shouldn't be a matter of feeling guilty for the instrument you play - if you have the good sense to realize when NOT to play, you're already ahead of heaps of session players. If another bodhran player says to you "Just go ahead and play" and you think it's already accompanied enough, say "I find too many bodhran players can hurt the melody." They might put their instrument aside so you have a chance to play for a while, or at least play quieter, then you're golden.
I don't think you should feel guilty for knowing when to not play. You should be proud of your fine musicianship. If you find you're not playing enough, think about taking up a melodic instrument or finding another session that is short of rhythm players.
Well, see, now, there's a thing that should be better known. And that's if you're an instrumentalist whose instrument count in the session is too high, you're SUPPOSED TO TAKE TURNS! Terribly rude of other musicians not to realize that the other musician who's been sitting there with their instrument on their lap should be given a turn at playing, ie: you yourself should maybe stop and go get a drink.
BTW, Linda -- learning sessions are completely different. I run one myself. At our tune learning session, we've had up to seven bodhrans (thank the Lord, that doesn't happen very often!) and three guitars all playing at once, and that's the way it's supposed to be. But I try to make it clear that that's not the way it is out in The Real World.
Ah, the debate over the goat-skinned ticket goes on... Believe it or not I know of a couple really good backers who can't play a stitch on a melody instrument, however these folks are obsessed. They know the tunes inside & out, who wrote them, when etc
I've always found it a comical that the name Bodhran is from "bodhar" which means "deaf" in english. I guess bodhran players have been a pain in the dupah from the instruments inception. Which brings me around to another point: the bodhran is a quai-traditional instrument. The bodhran was peculiar to Cork/Kerry area, it's primary use was a grain tray. Kids banged on them to acc. other kids on homemade fifes for makeshift parades on St. Stephen's Day & Boxing Day where they'd hopefully get together a few coins to buy candy and such. Some of these kids grew up & had a knack for immatating the sound of dancers feet on these grain trays. Usually they were punters (onlookers) of a session of music or between dances at a crossroads etc. but it was not part of the music - it was part of the general whooping it up akin to hollaring & clapping hands. I met an old-timer who told me about all this & he can remember taking part in these two or three kid parades. From what he told me they had almost completely died out by the 20's except in rural area's & were completely dead by the mid 40's. But for a while they had spread all over Ireland. Sean O'Raida was the first to use the bodhran on recordings with the Cheiftan's in the 60's or so, the Cheiftans were the first band that really spread the music to many who had never heard it before. Since they never heard it before they accepted the Bodhran to be as traditional as the pipes & fiddles. Which it is now, but this explains the older players contempt of the poor little frame drum. Seamus Ennis said the best way to play a bodhran is with a pen-knife, and that's among the tamer quotes from old timers watching this little rain-maker take over whole sessions. Well there's a short history.
I can tune bad bodhran-playing out with the rest of the bar noise. My only gripe with beginning-intermediate bodhran (guitar, zouk, etc) players is when they're taking up a seat when a competant melody player has none & wants to play. Out side of that the only advice I can give backers is to "BE HUMBLE"
As far as those other backing instruments...
A guitar player I know can play tunes on his guitar (flatpick) but it gets drowned out - so he only does it when there aren't to many louder instruments around to drown it out. He's a great player & his lilt is right but he's fighting an uphill battle on an instrument that isn't really suited for this stuff. He knows this & admits it - but he's mad about the guitar so why condemn him? Isn't music above all about having fun?
I know of a couple bodhran players who really get the music going, but they are rarer than hen's teeth. To me a bodhran isn't really needed most of the time, but back to my other point sessions & music in general are about fun - but if one persons fun is at the cost of everyone else's than it's time to reconsider the situation.
Yes Mr. Baloney, you hit on the most galling aspect of this: the dog in the manger routine. There's one drummer who gets there early and beats his drum like holding a stick and beating a rug who wouldn't budge if Michael Coleman rose from the grave and came to our session clutching his fiddle and seeking a seat. This guy is oblivious to the situation.
Wow, thanks for the history nugget, Brad. I had no idea how the thing came to be.
I agree with Jorg that it pays to play a melodic instrument if you want to participate in a session. The session is about the tunes. And beer. Don't get me wrong, though - I love a good accompanist - in fact, it helps my playing to have someone else thinking about the rhythm so I can just slip into the groove without thinking. I can think about tone, bowing, accents, intonations and variations if I'm not using all my concentration to hold a steady rhythm. Same goes for guitar. But of course it has to be a rhythm I can groove to, and the chords have to be solid, or it throws me off.
I find the most enjoyment in clean, skilled rhythmic support when the session is small enough that the ear can isolate each instrument and at the same time appreciate the interplay. The absolute best session set I ever heard had one piper, one flute player, one fiddler, one guitar and one bodhran all perfectly interwoven. One more of anything would have wrecked it.
Jorg, it's OK to have a bodhran. We should start a club - closet bodhran players anonymous. I have an absolutely beautiful one but unfortunately there are 2 regular bodhran players at my session and when they aren't there I figure the melody players could probably use a break anyway, so I never even bring it. Ditto for my guitar.
Somehow, just having bodhrans as a topic of conversation helps make it feel that I'm not completely left out in the cold as a musician. Rhythm is my thing, though I have certainly learned, at this point, that it is not the only thing. You guys are right: it's time to hunt for another session. And, if I could find a good whistle teacher, I think now is the time for me to pursue learning the whistle. I really, REALLY liked a whistle teacher I had last summer in Ontario for one short week at Goderich. Wish I could have brought her home to tutor me. She was an excellent teacher--Janice Crewe is her name. By chance do you know her, Kerri? She lives (or lived) in Toronto. (And, your encouragement, by the way, is noted!)
Your comments didn't offend me, Crusty. But, believe me, I appreciate your sensitivity. Too often I've had such doubts in my head as to whether I'm accepted as part of a session or looked upon as a joke by melody players and I sincerely want to be part of the group as a true contributor to the music that we're making, so not knowing sometimes drives me to distraction. So, each comment, oddly enough, is a breath of fresh air for me because, in this way, I at least know what melody players are thinking. Does that all make sense or am I being too female? 8-O *omigod! smiley*
Jorg, your lovely compliment will lift my spirits for days. That's the nicest thing a fellow sessioner could ever say to me!
For me, interesting reading, Brad. This has been a worthwhile discussion.
Gee...one more person posting on this wonderfully intertwined thread would ruin it, so I won't...but I just DID! Oh gawd, I'm a session nerd, more interested in hearing myself over the general clamor than...help! Stop me before I comment again! Aaaarrrggghhh!!!
Got overtaken by a fit of giggles at Will and forgot what I was going to say originally.
Linda, the thing to remember is that melody players also wonder if they're being taken seriously as a real contributor to a session. It's easy to pick on bodhrans and guitarists and people who bring didgeridoos, but in real life, we ALL rather wonder if everyone else is laughing at us behind our backs.
You just gotta hope they're not and keep practicising until you're relatively sure they couldn't possibly be. So, it takes roughly forty or fifty years, then, right?
Sleep? Who can sleep when there're so many tunes to learn, so many sessions to crash, so many pints to drain, so many angry session mates to annoy....
Besides, Zina, who's laughing so hard she fell off her mouse? (Uh, I should confess that I tried to post a bunch of *snort chortle snicker* stuff after my last "comment," but somehow formatted it to be invisible, which is why there's a blank stare--hamster in the headlights--before you get to my name up there.....)
*GRIN*
This thread is really, really good. You've all spoken well and eloquently on what it means to sit in on this most magical of circles--a ring of chairs beneath a halo of tunes. I don't have much to add, except that a good bodhran is a true joy to play with. It doesn't have to be fancy or intricate (although that can be fun, too), even the simplest beat will suffice, as long as the player listens and joins the melody players in what they're doing--driving hard when they drive hard, swinging when they swing, marching when they march, and falling like snowflakes on water when they reach for nothing but light and air and space. At that point, you may not be playing seven note scales and rolls and harmonies, but your drum is as much a lead instrument as my fiddle. And whole-heartedly welcome in my circle.
We've said it before but it's worth repeating here: what matters is not what instrument you play, but how you play it. Music is communication. Thomas Merton said that the deepest form of communication is communion. I read "communion" as a profound sharing of thoughts and emotions, a sense of becoming one with someone or something outside yourself. And that strikes me as synonymous with playing music with other people. Like in a session. A guy who recently joined our session makes my point. He plays fiddle, but he's new to our circle and so doesn't know all the tunes. Sometimes the spirit moves him to join in on tunes he doesn't know. But not on fiddle. Instead, he picks up an empy pint glass and taps out the rhythm on the table top in the middle of the circle. Last Tuesday night he did that and the bodhrans stopped. It was just two of us on fiddle and this guy keeping time with a 20 ounce tipper. And it was perfect...a light, lively, tasty set of reels that lasted forever and ended too soon and left us all quiet for a spell afterwards.
Play your drum. What's a glass and a piece of mahogany veneer got over your tipper and goatskin?
Nice story Will. When I sit and listen (quite often given how few tunes I know), I am sometimes tempted to slap my knees, tap my foot or manipulate various objects for spontaneous rhythm instruments.
This didn't happen in a session, but it is kind of apropos: I was playing for a contradance, in a haphazard group of whoever could show up. We were up on stage, two whistles, two fiddles, two guitars. The caller was sitting up front, switching from just calling to playing fiddle, bodhran, or tapping out a rhythm with his feet (he actually put a mike down by his feet for that). I was sitting out a reel, waiting for the next one to come around and I was really enjoying the good grove that we had going. So I started tapping my foot. One of the fiddlers, playing infront of me, still playing, turns around and gives my joyfully tapping hiking boots (it's mud season here) a pensive look, before facing front again. "Oh, shit!" I thought, "now I've done again!" I noticed that both fiddlers had taken off their shoes and were in their socks on stage. "There is probably some law that only the caller gets to tap his foot. Damn, why didn't I think of this earlier?" I was embarrassed at my gaffe and tried to redeem myself by getting more notes right then not on Scollay's. Then later I thought, I might as well be upfront about it. So I asked the fiddle player about it. He had just taken his shoes off because the other fiddle player had and it looked comfortable, he said. There was no unwritten restriction on foot-tapping, and he didn't even remember noticing that I had started tapping my foot during the last set. I'm sure that there is some lesson in that, but I really have to get back to my work.
A tip to new bodhran players. Try this for practising in a session. Put down the tipper and play with the tips of your fingers. You still get the practice on the techniques and timing and the only person who will probably hear you is you.
Also, try stepping back out of the circle and standing up. You can gain a lot of experience without being a potential problem.
Yes, one more post to this thought to be dead thread. I'm hoping some other lurker like me out there will have an answer. As an "intermediate player of the dead goat on wood, I apreciate all the comments. Some have actually made me think (not an easy task, I assure you).
I have a situation at a session I go to. It's mainly a song session. We usually get a couple of guitars, a whistler and a fiddler....and 5-8 drummers on various contraptions. Enthusiasm abounds... I've tried to be blunt without being a "session nazi", but the hint isn't taken. My friend the pub owner wants everything kept VERY friendly, so the screaming approach won't do.
Besides stapling a copy of the above mentioned etiquette guide to the drum head... err I mean leaving it lying on the table to soak up the spilled guinness, does anyone have any ideas on getting cooperation on this turn-taking concept?
Also, whoever said they had the session guide pamphlet ( said in one of the spinoff threads) I'd love to see a copy.
Who is the session leader? Ask him/her to talk to folks.
One way is to have maybe the fiddler or the whistle player say casually and after a particularly loud train wreck, "wow, we sure have a lot of drums right now. Maybe you guys should start taking turns so the rhythm isn't as muddy."
Thanks, Zina... the problem is that there IS no leader. I've made that comment for the last 4 sessions with no luck. It holds for about 10 minutes, and then the wall of disjointed thunder returns. I think I'll try getting that etiquette pamphlet and leaving it prominently lying on the table or something.
Just hoped that maybe someone would have a clever turn of phrase, or know the magic words ro something.
No such thing, I'm afraid -- get a copy of the Barry Foy book and leave it out on the table. Or, if you want to be more pointed and have the cash, get them their very own copies of the book, one for each of the drummers. Ask Will about that one... hehehe
If all else fails, find the oldest, scariest Irishman (or woman) around, musician or not, and have then loudly scold the errant drummers. They should say "back in my day" a lot. It helps if they have really bad breath and get in close. Then for the rest of the night, they should sit in the corner and glare menacingly whenever the drummers start to get out of control. That way no one can blame you.
*snicker* Jeff, that's too funny. Unfortunately, Jeff/jgard, Jeff's idea actually would probably work. Heh. It's even better if they're famous players, actually.
Hey, there's an idea, you could collect a page with the various webpages of session etiquette and pass it out at the session "for everyone's edification"!
Kerri, have you written that pamphlet of rules yet? I still think Barry Foy's book is the closest to what you're talking about...Hmmm...maybe I'll do it at some point here -- we could make it a website with a printable humorous document suitable for framing on your session wall. Heh.
Bodhrans: There oughta be a law
Bodhrans: There oughta be a law
This week's session had 18 or 20 folks and about 15 seats. 5 seats were taken by bodhrans, two of whom occasionally tapped out a beat, none of whom could ever tell what tune was being played. Meanwhile fiddlers mandolinists and a guitarist were begging for a seat. Shouldn't there be a law limiting the number of bodhran beaters? Week after week it's the same thing.
# Posted on February 25th 2002 by Crusty
Re: Bodhrans: There oughta be a law
*christ, I'm talkative lately*
To have a great bodhran player at a session is nothing less than a blessing. Unfortunatly, it's a rare blessing within the ITM session to have only one bodhran player. Without the intervention of a session 'Nazi' (a session leader how isn't afraid to kick butt and control the sound of the music), this phenomina is almost always to be seen.
Having a session 'Nazi' telling certain people not to play has the risk of fomenting bad feelings and can give an unwanted 'elistist' attitude towards the session. But the fact remains that in most sessions in Ireland (only by second-hand information do I report this) bodhran players are generally considerate enough to allow only one or two players to back the tunes.
By default, sessions in American cities or towns must be (in some cosmic sense) artificial in nature. The hard-nosed tactics of the session-Nazi may be the only recourse to push sessions into a semi-natural state.
*Please, be sure that any offence I may have commited in the writing of this post is purely non-malicious in nature!*
Talk amoungst yourselves!
# Posted on February 25th 2002 by Caoimghgin
Re: Bodhrans: There oughta be a law
18 or 20! Wow, that's a huge session -- surely it's time to split it up so there's fewer players? That would also help the bodhran situation a bit, but really, the thing that'll help is when they learn that there should only be one bodhran playing for about 7 other players, usually, and that's a matter of good taste -- good luck teaching that one!
Zina
# Posted on February 25th 2002 by Zina Lee
Re: Bodhrans: There oughta be a law
Yes Zina, it's huge and at times is larger. I like your Golden Rule of the 7/1 ratio as well as the 2 drum limit offered earlier. Perhaps we could hire the equivalent to the fire marshall, the music marshall in this case to inspect the session and cite those bodhran violators.
# Posted on February 26th 2002 by Crusty
Re: Bodhrans: There oughta be a law
Music Marshall! Now, that sounds MUCH better!
# Posted on February 26th 2002 by Caoimghgin
Re: Bodhrans: There oughta be a law
You know, someone ought to put out a pamphlet of basic session etiquette and hand it out. That way, no-one is offended for being singled out. They can plainly see the rules apply to everyone if everyone gets a book of the rules.
It could be very positive, doesn't have to come off snobby or exclusive - Just the ten ingredients for a fabulous session.
Number one would be Zina's 7:1 melody:rhythm ratio. As far as accompaniment is concerned, less is more. Take turns.
Number two would be not everybody has to be playing all the time. It can be as enjoyable to listen to a pipe / flute duet as it is to play with a cacophany of blazing fiddles and bazoukis.
Number three would be try not to dominate the tune selections. Start off a set, maybe two sets, but then give up the talking stick.
Anyone have suggestions for 4 through 10? Something should be said about tempo, and something else about volume.
Anyway, if I were having etiquette troubles at my session, I'd anonymously write up an "article" and say hey, look what I found. This is really neat. Want a copy? Thank heavens no-one comes to my sessions so I don't have any etiquette problems.
# Posted on February 26th 2002 by Kerri Brown
Re: Bodhrans: There oughta be a law
I'm a drummer and I find myself playing less and less because I'm so uncomfortable with the number of bodhrans that have been showing up lately (and playing continuously). Some say, "Just go ahead and play; don't worry about it. You're here to learn and enjoy yourself." Then a voice inside me says, "Don't, you're not supposed to. They say only one or two drums per session. You're probably ticking someone off if you add to the noise." And I talk myself out of playing. Not that I'm a maestro or anything. Sometimes the drummers that show up are better than I. (That doesn't take much! Yep, I can keep a even, steady beat, but that's about it right now.)
*angel smiley*
Oh, the trials and tribulations of a drummer! o
# Posted on February 26th 2002 by linda
Re: Bodhrans: There oughta be a law
Gee Linda, you've made me feel bad to think I"ve discouraged anyone from drumming at a session. I only want to dicourage them at our session.
My problem is when seating is short and the drummers are occupying in this week's case, 1/3 of the seating. And like I said none of them could tell you if we were doing the Kesh.
# Posted on February 26th 2002 by Crusty
Re: Bodhrans: There oughta be a law
Linda, sad as it is, there's a hard, cold reality that too many bodhrans muck up the rhythm, and you're right to leave it in the bag if you see 2 or 3 going already. My advice: show up earlier than the other bodhran players. if you're the first, someone else will be the one to bow out in the end.
There are different types of sessions, of course, and some will be more accepting of muddy accompaniment than others. The question is, what do YOU want to listen to and what do YOU want to play with. It shouldn't be a matter of feeling guilty for the instrument you play - if you have the good sense to realize when NOT to play, you're already ahead of heaps of session players. If another bodhran player says to you "Just go ahead and play" and you think it's already accompanied enough, say "I find too many bodhran players can hurt the melody." They might put their instrument aside so you have a chance to play for a while, or at least play quieter, then you're golden.
I don't think you should feel guilty for knowing when to not play. You should be proud of your fine musicianship. If you find you're not playing enough, think about taking up a melodic instrument or finding another session that is short of rhythm players.
# Posted on February 26th 2002 by Kerri Brown
Re: Bodhrans: There oughta be a law
Well, see, now, there's a thing that should be better known. And that's if you're an instrumentalist whose instrument count in the session is too high, you're SUPPOSED TO TAKE TURNS! Terribly rude of other musicians not to realize that the other musician who's been sitting there with their instrument on their lap should be given a turn at playing, ie: you yourself should maybe stop and go get a drink.
Zina
# Posted on February 26th 2002 by Zina Lee
Re: Bodhrans: There oughta be a law
BTW, Linda -- learning sessions are completely different. I run one myself. At our tune learning session, we've had up to seven bodhrans (thank the Lord, that doesn't happen very often!) and three guitars all playing at once, and that's the way it's supposed to be. But I try to make it clear that that's not the way it is out in The Real World.
Zina
# Posted on February 27th 2002 by Zina Lee
Re: Bodhrans: There oughta be a law
The only law (better: rule) for bodhr
# Posted on February 27th 2002 by Joerg Froese
The history of the "Goat-Skinned Ticket"
Ah, the debate over the goat-skinned ticket goes on... Believe it or not I know of a couple really good backers who can't play a stitch on a melody instrument, however these folks are obsessed. They know the tunes inside & out, who wrote them, when etc
I've always found it a comical that the name Bodhran is from "bodhar" which means "deaf" in english. I guess bodhran players have been a pain in the dupah from the instruments inception. Which brings me around to another point: the bodhran is a quai-traditional instrument. The bodhran was peculiar to Cork/Kerry area, it's primary use was a grain tray. Kids banged on them to acc. other kids on homemade fifes for makeshift parades on St. Stephen's Day & Boxing Day where they'd hopefully get together a few coins to buy candy and such. Some of these kids grew up & had a knack for immatating the sound of dancers feet on these grain trays. Usually they were punters (onlookers) of a session of music or between dances at a crossroads etc. but it was not part of the music - it was part of the general whooping it up akin to hollaring & clapping hands. I met an old-timer who told me about all this & he can remember taking part in these two or three kid parades. From what he told me they had almost completely died out by the 20's except in rural area's & were completely dead by the mid 40's. But for a while they had spread all over Ireland. Sean O'Raida was the first to use the bodhran on recordings with the Cheiftan's in the 60's or so, the Cheiftans were the first band that really spread the music to many who had never heard it before. Since they never heard it before they accepted the Bodhran to be as traditional as the pipes & fiddles. Which it is now, but this explains the older players contempt of the poor little frame drum. Seamus Ennis said the best way to play a bodhran is with a pen-knife, and that's among the tamer quotes from old timers watching this little rain-maker take over whole sessions. Well there's a short history.
I can tune bad bodhran-playing out with the rest of the bar noise. My only gripe with beginning-intermediate bodhran (guitar, zouk, etc) players is when they're taking up a seat when a competant melody player has none & wants to play. Out side of that the only advice I can give backers is to "BE HUMBLE"
As far as those other backing instruments...
A guitar player I know can play tunes on his guitar (flatpick) but it gets drowned out - so he only does it when there aren't to many louder instruments around to drown it out. He's a great player & his lilt is right but he's fighting an uphill battle on an instrument that isn't really suited for this stuff. He knows this & admits it - but he's mad about the guitar so why condemn him? Isn't music above all about having fun?
I know of a couple bodhran players who really get the music going, but they are rarer than hen's teeth. To me a bodhran isn't really needed most of the time, but back to my other point sessions & music in general are about fun - but if one persons fun is at the cost of everyone else's than it's time to reconsider the situation.
xxoo, Brad
# Posted on February 27th 2002 by B Rad
Re: Bodhrans: There oughta be a law
Yes Mr. Baloney, you hit on the most galling aspect of this: the dog in the manger routine. There's one drummer who gets there early and beats his drum like holding a stick and beating a rug who wouldn't budge if Michael Coleman rose from the grave and came to our session clutching his fiddle and seeking a seat. This guy is oblivious to the situation.
# Posted on February 27th 2002 by Crusty
Re: Bodhrans: There oughta be a law
Crusty, you've got a massive brain - cheers!!!
# Posted on February 27th 2002 by B Rad
Re: Bodhrans: There oughta be a law
Which jibe just gives me the most horrible mental picture of Crusty, Brad. *grin* I think maybe it's time to go to bed... heh...
zls
# Posted on February 27th 2002 by Zina Lee
Re: Bodhrans: There oughta be a law
Thanks MB, and it should last a lifetime since I rarely use it.
# Posted on February 28th 2002 by Crusty
Re: Bodhrans: There oughta be a law
Wow, thanks for the history nugget, Brad. I had no idea how the thing came to be.
I agree with Jorg that it pays to play a melodic instrument if you want to participate in a session. The session is about the tunes. And beer. Don't get me wrong, though - I love a good accompanist - in fact, it helps my playing to have someone else thinking about the rhythm so I can just slip into the groove without thinking. I can think about tone, bowing, accents, intonations and variations if I'm not using all my concentration to hold a steady rhythm. Same goes for guitar. But of course it has to be a rhythm I can groove to, and the chords have to be solid, or it throws me off.
I find the most enjoyment in clean, skilled rhythmic support when the session is small enough that the ear can isolate each instrument and at the same time appreciate the interplay. The absolute best session set I ever heard had one piper, one flute player, one fiddler, one guitar and one bodhran all perfectly interwoven. One more of anything would have wrecked it.
Jorg, it's OK to have a bodhran. We should start a club - closet bodhran players anonymous. I have an absolutely beautiful one but unfortunately there are 2 regular bodhran players at my session and when they aren't there I figure the melody players could probably use a break anyway, so I never even bring it. Ditto for my guitar.
# Posted on February 28th 2002 by Kerri Brown
Re: Bodhrans: There oughta be a law
Somehow, just having bodhrans as a topic of conversation helps make it feel that I'm not completely left out in the cold as a musician. Rhythm is my thing, though I have certainly learned, at this point, that it is not the only thing. You guys are right: it's time to hunt for another session. And, if I could find a good whistle teacher, I think now is the time for me to pursue learning the whistle. I really, REALLY liked a whistle teacher I had last summer in Ontario for one short week at Goderich. Wish I could have brought her home to tutor me. She was an excellent teacher--Janice Crewe is her name. By chance do you know her, Kerri? She lives (or lived) in Toronto. (And, your encouragement, by the way, is noted!)
Your comments didn't offend me, Crusty. But, believe me, I appreciate your sensitivity. Too often I've had such doubts in my head as to whether I'm accepted as part of a session or looked upon as a joke by melody players and I sincerely want to be part of the group as a true contributor to the music that we're making, so not knowing sometimes drives me to distraction. So, each comment, oddly enough, is a breath of fresh air for me because, in this way, I at least know what melody players are thinking. Does that all make sense or am I being too female? 8-O *omigod! smiley*
Jorg, your lovely compliment will lift my spirits for days. That's the nicest thing a fellow sessioner could ever say to me!
For me, interesting reading, Brad. This has been a worthwhile discussion.
# Posted on February 28th 2002 by linda
Re: Bodhrans: There oughta be a law
Gee...one more person posting on this wonderfully intertwined thread would ruin it, so I won't...but I just DID! Oh gawd, I'm a session nerd, more interested in hearing myself over the general clamor than...help! Stop me before I comment again! Aaaarrrggghhh!!!
Harharharmon
# Posted on February 28th 2002 by Will Harmon
Re: Bodhrans: There oughta be a law
Just not had enough sleep lately, Will?
*snort*
zls
# Posted on February 28th 2002 by Zina Lee
Ooops, sorry...
Got overtaken by a fit of giggles at Will and forgot what I was going to say originally.
Linda, the thing to remember is that melody players also wonder if they're being taken seriously as a real contributor to a session. It's easy to pick on bodhrans and guitarists and people who bring didgeridoos, but in real life, we ALL rather wonder if everyone else is laughing at us behind our backs.
You just gotta hope they're not and keep practicising until you're relatively sure they couldn't possibly be. So, it takes roughly forty or fifty years, then, right?
Zina
# Posted on February 28th 2002 by Zina Lee
Re: Bodhrans: There oughta be a law
Sleep? Who can sleep when there're so many tunes to learn, so many sessions to crash, so many pints to drain, so many angry session mates to annoy....
Besides, Zina, who's laughing so hard she fell off her mouse? (Uh, I should confess that I tried to post a bunch of *snort chortle snicker* stuff after my last "comment," but somehow formatted it to be invisible, which is why there's a blank stare--hamster in the headlights--before you get to my name up there.....)
*GRIN*
This thread is really, really good. You've all spoken well and eloquently on what it means to sit in on this most magical of circles--a ring of chairs beneath a halo of tunes. I don't have much to add, except that a good bodhran is a true joy to play with. It doesn't have to be fancy or intricate (although that can be fun, too), even the simplest beat will suffice, as long as the player listens and joins the melody players in what they're doing--driving hard when they drive hard, swinging when they swing, marching when they march, and falling like snowflakes on water when they reach for nothing but light and air and space. At that point, you may not be playing seven note scales and rolls and harmonies, but your drum is as much a lead instrument as my fiddle. And whole-heartedly welcome in my circle.
We've said it before but it's worth repeating here: what matters is not what instrument you play, but how you play it. Music is communication. Thomas Merton said that the deepest form of communication is communion. I read "communion" as a profound sharing of thoughts and emotions, a sense of becoming one with someone or something outside yourself. And that strikes me as synonymous with playing music with other people. Like in a session. A guy who recently joined our session makes my point. He plays fiddle, but he's new to our circle and so doesn't know all the tunes. Sometimes the spirit moves him to join in on tunes he doesn't know. But not on fiddle. Instead, he picks up an empy pint glass and taps out the rhythm on the table top in the middle of the circle. Last Tuesday night he did that and the bodhrans stopped. It was just two of us on fiddle and this guy keeping time with a 20 ounce tipper. And it was perfect...a light, lively, tasty set of reels that lasted forever and ended too soon and left us all quiet for a spell afterwards.
Play your drum. What's a glass and a piece of mahogany veneer got over your tipper and goatskin?
# Posted on February 28th 2002 by Will Harmon
Re: Bodhrans: There oughta be a law
Nice story Will. When I sit and listen (quite often given how few tunes I know), I am sometimes tempted to slap my knees, tap my foot or manipulate various objects for spontaneous rhythm instruments.
This didn't happen in a session, but it is kind of apropos: I was playing for a contradance, in a haphazard group of whoever could show up. We were up on stage, two whistles, two fiddles, two guitars. The caller was sitting up front, switching from just calling to playing fiddle, bodhran, or tapping out a rhythm with his feet (he actually put a mike down by his feet for that). I was sitting out a reel, waiting for the next one to come around and I was really enjoying the good grove that we had going. So I started tapping my foot. One of the fiddlers, playing infront of me, still playing, turns around and gives my joyfully tapping hiking boots (it's mud season here) a pensive look, before facing front again. "Oh, shit!" I thought, "now I've done again!" I noticed that both fiddlers had taken off their shoes and were in their socks on stage. "There is probably some law that only the caller gets to tap his foot. Damn, why didn't I think of this earlier?" I was embarrassed at my gaffe and tried to redeem myself by getting more notes right then not on Scollay's. Then later I thought, I might as well be upfront about it. So I asked the fiddle player about it. He had just taken his shoes off because the other fiddle player had and it looked comfortable, he said. There was no unwritten restriction on foot-tapping, and he didn't even remember noticing that I had started tapping my foot during the last set. I'm sure that there is some lesson in that, but I really have to get back to my work.
# Posted on March 1st 2002 by Bloomfield
Re: Bodhrans: There oughta be a law
A tip to new bodhran players. Try this for practising in a session. Put down the tipper and play with the tips of your fingers. You still get the practice on the techniques and timing and the only person who will probably hear you is you.
Also, try stepping back out of the circle and standing up. You can gain a lot of experience without being a potential problem.
# Posted on March 3rd 2002 by michaeloliver
Re: Bodhrans: There oughta be a law
Yes, one more post to this thought to be dead thread. I'm hoping some other lurker like me out there will have an answer. As an "intermediate player of the dead goat on wood, I apreciate all the comments. Some have actually made me think (not an easy task, I assure you).
I have a situation at a session I go to. It's mainly a song session. We usually get a couple of guitars, a whistler and a fiddler....and 5-8 drummers on various contraptions. Enthusiasm abounds... I've tried to be blunt without being a "session nazi", but the hint isn't taken. My friend the pub owner wants everything kept VERY friendly, so the screaming approach won't do.
Besides stapling a copy of the above mentioned etiquette guide to the drum head... err I mean leaving it lying on the table to soak up the spilled guinness, does anyone have any ideas on getting cooperation on this turn-taking concept?
Also, whoever said they had the session guide pamphlet ( said in one of the spinoff threads) I'd love to see a copy.
Fighting the lost cause....
Jeff
# Posted on April 29th 2002 by jgard
Re: Bodhrans: There oughta be a law
Who is the session leader? Ask him/her to talk to folks.
One way is to have maybe the fiddler or the whistle player say casually and after a particularly loud train wreck, "wow, we sure have a lot of drums right now. Maybe you guys should start taking turns so the rhythm isn't as muddy."
That probably doesn't help you much.
Zina
# Posted on April 29th 2002 by Zina Lee
Re: Bodhrans: There oughta be a law
Thanks, Zina... the problem is that there IS no leader. I've made that comment for the last 4 sessions with no luck. It holds for about 10 minutes, and then the wall of disjointed thunder returns. I think I'll try getting that etiquette pamphlet and leaving it prominently lying on the table or something.
Just hoped that maybe someone would have a clever turn of phrase, or know the magic words ro something.
# Posted on April 29th 2002 by jgard
Re: Bodhrans: There oughta be a law
No such thing, I'm afraid -- get a copy of the Barry Foy book and leave it out on the table. Or, if you want to be more pointed and have the cash, get them their very own copies of the book, one for each of the drummers.
Ask Will about that one... hehehe
Zina
# Posted on April 29th 2002 by Zina Lee
Re: Bodhrans: There oughta be a law
If all else fails, find the oldest, scariest Irishman (or woman) around, musician or not, and have then loudly scold the errant drummers. They should say "back in my day" a lot. It helps if they have really bad breath and get in close. Then for the rest of the night, they should sit in the corner and glare menacingly whenever the drummers start to get out of control. That way no one can blame you.
# Posted on April 29th 2002 by JeffK627
Re: Bodhrans: There oughta be a law
*snicker* Jeff, that's too funny. Unfortunately, Jeff/jgard, Jeff's idea actually would probably work. Heh. It's even better if they're famous players, actually.
Zina
# Posted on April 29th 2002 by Zina Lee
Re: Bodhrans: There oughta be a law
New session etiquette page from Jack Gilder out in San Francisco: http://pweb.jps.net/~jgilder/seisiun.html
I still think Barry Foy's book is the closest to what you're talking about...Hmmm...maybe I'll do it at some point here -- we could make it a website with a printable humorous document suitable for framing on your session wall. Heh.
Hey, there's an idea, you could collect a page with the various webpages of session etiquette and pass it out at the session "for everyone's edification"!
Feel free to use mine: http://www.slowplayers.org/SCTLS/etiquette.html
Kerri, have you written that pamphlet of rules yet?
Zina
# Posted on April 30th 2002 by Zina Lee