Sandra, welcome to the Session on your first posting!
Generally, Irish traditional tunes are stand-alone and don't really need harmonic accompaniment. Having said that, in practice most sessions will have one or more guitars or similar fretted instruments providing chords to go with the tune. The better guitarists understand the structure of the tunes and are know which chords work. This is because most Irish tunes aren't in straightforward major or minor keys but are in modes - use an inappropriate chord and the modal structure of the tune suffers.
Some of the tunes submitted on the tune database do indeed have chords included; if you look at the ABC of such a tune you'll see something like "Gmin7" (in quotes) which tells the guitarist to use a G minor 7th chord at that place. I'm not sure how to easily search the database for tunes with chords - any suggestions from the members?
If you are a newcomer to Irish music I'd suggest the best thing is to listen to as much as possible, on CDs or at sessions, so as to get a good feel for the music. Then you'll be in a better position to decide what accompaniment (if any) on the piano is suitable for a particular tune.
I don't know what your music background is but a course in harmony is always useful for an accompanist.
Finally, I feel that minimalist is best when it comes to accompanying tunes - listen to Martin Hayes and Dennis Cahill for an example.
HI Sandra -
I'm thinking from the wording of your posting that you are wanting to play the melody with your right hand and chords with your left! This would be a very unusual way to play Irish music - though nothing is completely unheard of!
The usual role of the piano (when it is involved at all) is to vamp a bass line with the left hand, mainly on the beat, and chords with the right, mainly off the beat.
There are a few good pianists, such as Felix Dolan and Charlie Lennon, who are worth listening to on recordings for this style. I've never heard anyone playing Irish tunes in what I think of as the old Cape Breton piano style (melody RH, chords LH) but no doubt it's been tried. If you want to hear what might be achieved in a more innovative vein you could listen to Micheal O'Suilleabhan. His album Dolphin's Way is a good starting place.
As for which chords to play, it takes time and patience to learn this. Get hold of some books of fiddle tunes with guitar chords for a start, and listen to different styles of accompaniment by different instruments to see what you like the sound of. However, what works on the guitar doesn't always work on the piano and so on...
I hope I'm not going over a lot of stuff that you already know.
- Kris
hi there. i also was going to recommend Felix Dolan....playing the melody in your right hand is of course essential if there is no other instrument palying with you...but for accompaniment what works best and supports best with the least distraction is, as Kris says vamping (it's really fun, just play right left right left on the chord like you are playing a drum, but lighter). Now, you are asking What chord? My listening tells me Dolan maintains a tonal center with his right hand and follows a slow moving bassline with his left. For example the tune is in D, the left hand plays D D D (you can use different ocateves, or inversions for effect, like if the melody rises, then rise with it but sparingly) meanwhile the right hand can follow a i iv v pattern, or a vi v iv iii patern, whatever the tune calls for......
hmm.....i wonder if i am being clear? anyway. for myself i used to try to play al the chord changes in both the left and right hands, which was giving me a headache cause ineed tolook at my hands to hit the chords, so iwas looking right left right left.....then igot lazy and just let the left hand focus mainly on the 2 4 beats of the tonic while i watched and guided the right hand in the movement and expression of my accompaniement. I figgured omg i am being so lazy not learning to do this with both hands, but then i heard Felix Dolan doing exactly this and so now i have great fun and relaxation playing piano accompaniement ..
for my own learning thats a keyword: "relaxing"
finally, if you question is about "which chord"
1.the less the better
2. listen a lot
3. play with cds a lot, vamp away, you will come to recognize patterns that work (Am G Am G is a very common one, or Em D em D.. but note.. The changes will not occur at neccessarily regular intervals
4. books like Irelands 100 Best Session Tunes have chord suggestions (not always to my own liking, too complex. but its a start
5. experiment and trust yourself..if you hac=ve the melodies in your head already, which i sense you do, then half your work is already done
woops. I am cixelsyd! i got the hands backwards soorry! hope my post is still useful....i mean the Right hand plays the 2 4 tonic chord, the Left hand follows the progression.....
I would recommend Charlie Lennon as a great exponent of less-is-more accompaniment. Felix Dolan has a similar style. Brian McGrath (banjo player) is also an excellent accompanist on the piano. He plays along with John Carty on his first album "The Cat That Ate the Candle". The thing I like about these players is that they all keep it simple and complement the tune without being obtrusive.
The early 20th century recordings of Michael Coleman et al. were generally plagued by pianists who had no clue about Irish Music. There are a few exceptions such as the Morrison/McKenna recording of "The Dark Girl Dressed in Blue/My Love is But a Lassie" - a gem.
Eleanor Neary could accompany with the left hand and play the tune with the right. She can be heard playing with Paddy Killoran on the CD " The Living Tradition - Coleman Archive Vol. 1". It's not everyone's cuppa tea but the effect on this recording is electric. BTW this recording is a gem and I recommend it to anyone interested in the Sligo style. (I'm not on commission, Honest!)
There is a tune on an early Liz Carroll CD (from the 70's I think, with a purpley cover if that helps!) on which there is an excellent piano accompaniment and where the pianist plays the melody line beautifully. Can't think why it isn't done more often - after all piano accordions do....
I will try and see if I can locate the album and get the track listing (if can find it buried deep in a pile of removal boxes!)
This has been mentioned in an earlier thread, but Maureen Glynn was a beautiful piano accompanist (see the Fort at Kincora with Martin Connolly), very minimal and not as percussive, a creative but very within-the-tradition sound.
I tend to play a bassline of octaves in my left hand on the beat, and I vary the chords in my right hand, either making the bass note the bottom note of my chord or doing inversions & variations around the tonic. I also tend to do broken chords in my right hand a fair bit in reels to complement the ornamentation (Glynn does this.) For variety & emphasis I'll land both hands on the beat.
Happily I haven't had to look at my hands much since I was a tiny girl which liberates me to look around at the other players more and anticipate changes. Or, as happened once, fall asleep and wake up still playing! OH NO!
Sandra, get a copy of the Fiddler's Fakebook. It has a great collection of standard session tunes, complete with chords and a choice of recordings where the tune is featured. I can't think of any other book that would be as much help, or have so many tunes you'd want to learn. In California, where I live, it is the one book almost all trad players carry around with them.
Frustrated Pianist
Frustrated Pianist
I cannot seem to figure out what the left hand cording would be to the sheet music posted on Sessions (and other sites).
If it's printed, I can play it, but without the written music, I can't seem to figure it out. A good example would be appreciated.
Can anyone give me some guidance?
Thank you.
# Posted on May 30th 2004 by Sandra
Re: Frustrated Pianist
Sandra, welcome to the Session on your first posting!
Generally, Irish traditional tunes are stand-alone and don't really need harmonic accompaniment. Having said that, in practice most sessions will have one or more guitars or similar fretted instruments providing chords to go with the tune. The better guitarists understand the structure of the tunes and are know which chords work. This is because most Irish tunes aren't in straightforward major or minor keys but are in modes - use an inappropriate chord and the modal structure of the tune suffers.
Some of the tunes submitted on the tune database do indeed have chords included; if you look at the ABC of such a tune you'll see something like "Gmin7" (in quotes) which tells the guitarist to use a G minor 7th chord at that place. I'm not sure how to easily search the database for tunes with chords - any suggestions from the members?
If you are a newcomer to Irish music I'd suggest the best thing is to listen to as much as possible, on CDs or at sessions, so as to get a good feel for the music. Then you'll be in a better position to decide what accompaniment (if any) on the piano is suitable for a particular tune.
I don't know what your music background is but a course in harmony is always useful for an accompanist.
Finally, I feel that minimalist is best when it comes to accompanying tunes - listen to Martin Hayes and Dennis Cahill for an example.
Best of luck
Trevor
# Posted on May 30th 2004 by lazyhound
Re: Frustrated Pianist
HI Sandra -
I'm thinking from the wording of your posting that you are wanting to play the melody with your right hand and chords with your left! This would be a very unusual way to play Irish music - though nothing is completely unheard of!
The usual role of the piano (when it is involved at all) is to vamp a bass line with the left hand, mainly on the beat, and chords with the right, mainly off the beat.
There are a few good pianists, such as Felix Dolan and Charlie Lennon, who are worth listening to on recordings for this style. I've never heard anyone playing Irish tunes in what I think of as the old Cape Breton piano style (melody RH, chords LH) but no doubt it's been tried. If you want to hear what might be achieved in a more innovative vein you could listen to Micheal O'Suilleabhan. His album Dolphin's Way is a good starting place.
As for which chords to play, it takes time and patience to learn this. Get hold of some books of fiddle tunes with guitar chords for a start, and listen to different styles of accompaniment by different instruments to see what you like the sound of. However, what works on the guitar doesn't always work on the piano and so on...
I hope I'm not going over a lot of stuff that you already know.
- Kris
# Posted on May 30th 2004 by kris
Re: Frustrated Pianist
hi there. i also was going to recommend Felix Dolan....playing the melody in your right hand is of course essential if there is no other instrument palying with you...but for accompaniment what works best and supports best with the least distraction is, as Kris says vamping (it's really fun, just play right left right left on the chord like you are playing a drum, but lighter). Now, you are asking What chord? My listening tells me Dolan maintains a tonal center with his right hand and follows a slow moving bassline with his left. For example the tune is in D, the left hand plays D D D (you can use different ocateves, or inversions for effect, like if the melody rises, then rise with it but sparingly) meanwhile the right hand can follow a i iv v pattern, or a vi v iv iii patern, whatever the tune calls for......
hmm.....i wonder if i am being clear? anyway. for myself i used to try to play al the chord changes in both the left and right hands, which was giving me a headache cause ineed tolook at my hands to hit the chords, so iwas looking right left right left.....then igot lazy and just let the left hand focus mainly on the 2 4 beats of the tonic while i watched and guided the right hand in the movement and expression of my accompaniement. I figgured omg i am being so lazy not learning to do this with both hands, but then i heard Felix Dolan doing exactly this and so now i have great fun and relaxation playing piano accompaniement ..
for my own learning thats a keyword: "relaxing"
finally, if you question is about "which chord"
1.the less the better
2. listen a lot
3. play with cds a lot, vamp away, you will come to recognize patterns that work (Am G Am G is a very common one, or Em D em D.. but note.. The changes will not occur at neccessarily regular intervals
4. books like Irelands 100 Best Session Tunes have chord suggestions (not always to my own liking, too complex. but its a start
5. experiment and trust yourself..if you hac=ve the melodies in your head already, which i sense you do, then half your work is already done
whew! long email........pls write again
# Posted on May 30th 2004 by vboyd100
Re: Frustrated Pianist
woops. I am cixelsyd! i got the hands backwards soorry! hope my post is still useful....i mean the Right hand plays the 2 4 tonic chord, the Left hand follows the progression.....
# Posted on May 30th 2004 by vboyd100
Re: Frustrated Pianist
I would recommend Charlie Lennon as a great exponent of less-is-more accompaniment. Felix Dolan has a similar style. Brian McGrath (banjo player) is also an excellent accompanist on the piano. He plays along with John Carty on his first album "The Cat That Ate the Candle". The thing I like about these players is that they all keep it simple and complement the tune without being obtrusive.
The early 20th century recordings of Michael Coleman et al. were generally plagued by pianists who had no clue about Irish Music. There are a few exceptions such as the Morrison/McKenna recording of "The Dark Girl Dressed in Blue/My Love is But a Lassie" - a gem.
Eleanor Neary could accompany with the left hand and play the tune with the right. She can be heard playing with Paddy Killoran on the CD " The Living Tradition - Coleman Archive Vol. 1". It's not everyone's cuppa tea but the effect on this recording is electric. BTW this recording is a gem and I recommend it to anyone interested in the Sligo style. (I'm not on commission, Honest!)
# Posted on May 30th 2004 by milesnagopaleen
Re: Frustrated Pianist
There is a tune on an early Liz Carroll CD (from the 70's I think, with a purpley cover if that helps!) on which there is an excellent piano accompaniment and where the pianist plays the melody line beautifully. Can't think why it isn't done more often - after all piano accordions do....
I will try and see if I can locate the album and get the track listing (if can find it buried deep in a pile of removal boxes!)
# Posted on May 31st 2004 by nick b
Re: Frustrated Pianist
This has been mentioned in an earlier thread, but Maureen Glynn was a beautiful piano accompanist (see the Fort at Kincora with Martin Connolly), very minimal and not as percussive, a creative but very within-the-tradition sound.
I tend to play a bassline of octaves in my left hand on the beat, and I vary the chords in my right hand, either making the bass note the bottom note of my chord or doing inversions & variations around the tonic. I also tend to do broken chords in my right hand a fair bit in reels to complement the ornamentation (Glynn does this.) For variety & emphasis I'll land both hands on the beat.
Happily I haven't had to look at my hands much since I was a tiny girl which liberates me to look around at the other players more and anticipate changes. Or, as happened once, fall asleep and wake up still playing! OH NO!
# Posted on June 2nd 2004 by dances with swords
Re: Frustrated Pianist
Sandra, get a copy of the Fiddler's Fakebook. It has a great collection of standard session tunes, complete with chords and a choice of recordings where the tune is featured. I can't think of any other book that would be as much help, or have so many tunes you'd want to learn. In California, where I live, it is the one book almost all trad players carry around with them.
Cheers.
# Posted on June 2nd 2004 by Ailin