why can't the process of submitting tunes be made more user friendly? Surely it would be better to let the person submitting the tune write in what type of tune it is, the time sig etc, instead of having to choose one of several presets that don't always say what's there. For instance, at the moment people cannot submit slow airs as slow airs, and people who want to find slow airs will have to search and search through inacurate discriptions to find what they want. Why not let the person submitting the tune write in exactly what they want, rather than restricting them to limited menu choices?
Right now, all you have to do is choose from a list of options:
What kind of tune is it: a jig, a reel?
What key is it in: D major, E minor?
The headers for the ABC are then created automatically. Nobody ever has to type in:
K: G
M: 6/8
L: 1/8
I consider that user friendly.
As for submitting slow airs, I've said it before and I *won't* say it again:
Slow airs are, frankly, beyond the scope of this site. In my opinion, they're beyond the scope of ABC or another transcription: they can *only* be learned by ear.
They are deserving of their own website and I wish someone would stop complaining about this site and actually go and build a site for slow airs.
From the front page of this site:
"This website is one way of passing on jigs, reels and other dance tunes."
It's true that, in the past, when people have asked "how do I submit a slow air?", I've responded by telling them to submit it as a jig, reel, waltz or whatver.
But, y'know what; I've had it.
As of today, when someone asks "how do I submit a slow air?" my answer will simply be: "don't".
Problem solved.
Again, I'd like to make clear that this isn't because of any bias *against* slow airs but rather, it's because they are deserving of more respect.
dont know about abc because getting the rythm is harder to notate but you can certainly pick them up from sheet music. i know i do, it just depends on personal interpretation in the end.
The guidelines for this site are clear and make sense. Nevertheless I goofed once recently and want to say "Sorry!" to Jeremy. I recently learned I would be moving to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. I excitedly posted a question here about where one could play there. Of course Jeremy had to remove it, as his guidelines clearly indicate this is off-limits for discussions. I should know to review guidelines, after all, as I'm associated editor myself over at Concertina.net, where we have our own set of peripheral or irrelevant questions that come up over and over. Considering how few people play concertina, they sure type a lot.
A search here not yielding any ITM-playing Session members in Pitt., I did what I should have in the first place and used a Web search to find several worthy local organizations. Looks like a musical place.
Thanks again Jeremy, for such a useful, and focused (!) Web site.
From the point of view of a 100% user (no contrubutions yet, but beware), this site is really user friendly. Your suggestions, Jez, would lead to lots of confusion. Especially when it comes to inaccurate description. How would you imagine browsing a huge database of tunes looking for reels, of which half is submitted as reels, one third as reals, one-something as rels, and the rest as rails, roles or any other possible typos? The same goes for the rest.
Now imagine the army of liberated minds who decide that their tunes are not so much of a reel, but something new, unique... And as such should have a category by itself. Believe me, these people are legion. And imagine the chaos.
The cause why you don't see slow airs or laments in here is... well, I would ask you to browse through discussions before making statements, if you don't want to irritate our benevolent benefactor, Jeremy. He's right, and not only because he's the Elder One of this site . The topic has been chewed over zillions of times.
This website is a terrific tune resource, and a fun way to get to know musicians from all over the world to share ideas, tunes, information, and to have fun. Jeremy has done a terrific job, and spent considerable time putting this together. Just like the real world though, it's not perfect. There are places we could all find that fell short of something we try to do, and if Jeremy can figure out a way to fix something -- he'll do it. To organize ITM, with all of its idiosyncrasies and misnomers, is a daunting endeavor to consider at all
I agree with Jeremy. Airs demand more respect, and should only ever be learnt by ear. There should be a law against playing airs unless you've been playing your instrument for at least 100 years. I've never dared touch them, but I have great respect for people who do them well. The problem with airs is that because they're slow, some beginners think that they're easy. The way I understand it is that Jeremy created this site for dance tunes. Using abc for jigs and reels is unsatisfactory enough as an alternative to learning by ear, but at least it works if you know how to interpret it. Airs on the other hand are a different story. Use your lugs.
fine, ok, forget slow airs, that wass probably the wrong line of argument to start on, but...even if presets are still used, it would be nice to know what they actually mean. What, for instance, is a slip jig? Or a barndnace for that matter. What's the difference between them or any of the others (apart from time sig) ? Do such tunes have to be written in a paticular style? I am one of those people who isn't particularly ''in the know'' about this technical stuff, i just play the tunes, but since it's a lot less hassle to know what it all means, i'd still like to know.
NZ Jez, I'm pretty much in the same boat as you, my excuse being that I'm a real beginner, but I would reckon that expecting drop-down menus in the tune submission section to perform this teaching role is asking a bit much... perhaps? Sorry if I've misinterpreted your comment.
The "Search" function in the Discussion section will bring up heaps of information on the differences between all these types of tune.
I think exclusion of airs is detrimental. If this is going to be pro "the tradition" which it claims to be, it should, at least, be consistent. Airs get played in sessions, and are a welcome addition when played well. I fail to see what the essential difference is between airs and other tunes that makes them so less amenable to being written down and learn't. Certainly they represent more of a challenge, but they do so in the learning of them anyway. Many good musicians write such tunes down, and I have so far found more "errors" in translation in the airs that I have learnt by ear (even from the likes of Kathleen Nesbitt) than I have from the airs I have learnt from score.
Yes there are technical reasons why an air might be more difficult to write down here, in which the air might be treated as a waltz, but couldn't a solution be to have an "Air" category with no time signiture, and indeed no bar lines or bar lines to imply metre if required. According to the ABC website some ABC parsers should be able to cope with such an arrangement.
I think rejection of airs is dumbing down to the LCD, whether in reality or in virtual reality sessions.
Jeremy said: "Again, I'd like to make clear that this isn't because of any bias *against* slow airs but rather, it's because they are deserving of more respect". That doesn't sound like "rejection" to me. Either way, Jeremy has made his views clear, and I wouldn't have thought that saying he's "dumbing down to the LCD" is a very good way of making him change his mind.
I'm not saying he's dumbing down, I'm saying that it would be selection of only the easier jigs (and reels), jigs and reels that give a quick fix in sessions and rejection of tunes that are more challenging (airs) and exposed to play, that would be the dumbing down. If not dumbing down certainly a corruption of a representative session.
When you are submitting a tune, there's a "help" tab at every stage of the submission process. Clicking on this tab will show additional information to help with the submission process.
I'll update the help tab on the first stage (which contains information on key signatures right now) to include more information on which tune types equate to which time signatures.
Thanks for the prompt, Jer: I wouldn't have thought of this otherwise.
1) There's nothing to stop people playing airs at sessions whether they get posted here or not.
2) This website isn't a real-life session. It's a tune database and discussion board amongst other things. I don't think it necessarily claims to be an exact representation of what actually gets played at your average session, and there's no reason why it should be so.
Jamie, I didn't make the decision that slow airs should be notoriously difficult to transcribe and notate: that's simply the nature of the beast.
And again, I repeat, if anyone feels that The Session is not offering something that should be better catered to, chances are there's some other website dedicated to it. Check out the links section to find websites devoted to specific instruments or musicians. It should be the same for slow airs. And if no such web site exists yet, then build it.
Honestly, if The Session tries to be all things to all people, it will fail miserably. For instance, songs are often played at sessions but there's no "songs" section here. That's not because of any anti-song bias. It's simply not part of the scope for this site.
I'm sorry if you don't like the fact that there's no slow airs at The Session. You're just going to have to live with it because that's not changing.
If you feel that strongly about it then surely the "ethical responsibility" lies with you to provide the balance that you perceive is missing. I mean this sincerely: start your own slow air website.
I agree with not posting slow airs. Also, if you can't tell whether or not the tune you want to post is a reel, hornpipe, jig etc, don't post it. User friendly is not just for the person posting, its also for the person reading it. If you have no idea, what's a beginner like me giong to do?
Jeremy is certainly not dumbing down, and is supported by many people who know about music notation.
The bottom line is that slow airs are nearly always jigs, reels or waltzes and an excellent example of this is in O'Neills where there are some in the air section with loads of notes, slides, gliss. and more ornaments than you can shake an egg at. Who could play any of these unless they were experienced in notation.
By the same token, the rest of the airs section is full of tunes you can play as waltzes, jigs and reels. I have had many an interesting hour playing through the airs at a faster speed.
I personally feel that airs do not really have a place in the ITM session unless played by someone with the musical prescence and technique to carry it off. They can be played by beginners, but beware - if the rest of the musicians do not join in, you could be playing them too slowly.
Life is too short for slow-airs in sessions.
If a beginner is uncertain about a tune s/he wishes to post, or needs help in preparing its ABC, then perhaps it would be useful to ask for help from within the membership. I'm not going to suggest any names, because that could put an unfair burden on otherwise busy people, but perhaps a list of volunteer "mentors" could be published.
When I play slow airs I feel that I'm tapping a completely different part of my sense of music to do so. I would compare the playing of slow airs to something more like acting. Unlike playing dance tunes, you're engaging in drama and conjuring images playing. Besides the arbitrary rhythm, you can't notate emotional content. For these reasons it would be futile to include them on a site such as this. If you want to learn a slow air -- use an aural source. The musical notation for dance tunes is leaving out enough as it is, but notating slow airs would be leaving out far too much to be acceptable.
I agree that slow airs are quite tough to notate adequately, and that the other technical points Jeremy has raised are unanswerable as well.
Jeremy, suggestion? Maybe you should mention on the home page that this site doesn't include notation for slow airs, or something to that effect. That might help keep this particular pot from being stirred again.
And since this is Jeremy's site --- he created it, he runs it, he PAYS for it, and he provides it free as a fantastic resource to all of usn's --- maybe we should let the nice man run it the way he sees fit? ;)
Sara
Cease in your argumenting people, because there is no argument here. Conclusions have been draw and results achived, so let us no dally apon the finer points for argument's sake. Lets us all be one with each other in peace and goodwill for our brethren. Let us all pay homage to Jeremy for his hard work and effort which will surely elivate him to deity-like status in times to come. As a mark of respect, let us not mention hereafter a certain two word phrase including the words 'slow' and indeed 'airs' unless we really have to, lest we invoke the rage of the almighty and be beaten soundly about the chops with our own instruments.
Previously I've asked myself the questions; "Why not let the person submitting the tune write in exactly what they want, rather than restricting them to limited menu choices?", and how would one submit an air with this system?
I think you've explained yourself well answering these questions Jeremy and I've come to agree with you, but if you don't mind me asking; Why do we not have all of the key signature options available when submitting tunes? I was about to submit a tune in C min when I found that both Cmin and Ebmaj were unavailable. Why is this?
I dont think there is a single tune in Eflat major within the Irish Tradition. A person may play a tune in that key but it is more likely played in D by others.
If you have a tune in Cminor, transpose it down to Bminor and submit. I can honestly say that in my admittedly limited experiemce I have never come across a tune in C minor.
The limitations are within the music itself rather than imposed by Jeremy. As for Airs: that comes up again and again and it was a reasonable decision to leave airs out of the option list for tune types. If you want a site for submitting Airs, start one yourself. I dont think it is as easy (or possible) to learn an air from sheet music/dots.
Ideas for change
Ideas for change
why can't the process of submitting tunes be made more user friendly? Surely it would be better to let the person submitting the tune write in what type of tune it is, the time sig etc, instead of having to choose one of several presets that don't always say what's there. For instance, at the moment people cannot submit slow airs as slow airs, and people who want to find slow airs will have to search and search through inacurate discriptions to find what they want. Why not let the person submitting the tune write in exactly what they want, rather than restricting them to limited menu choices?
# Posted on May 1st 2004 by NZ Jez
Re: Ideas for change
Precisely because it is more user friendly.
Right now, all you have to do is choose from a list of options:
What kind of tune is it: a jig, a reel?
What key is it in: D major, E minor?
The headers for the ABC are then created automatically. Nobody ever has to type in:
K: G
M: 6/8
L: 1/8
I consider that user friendly.
As for submitting slow airs, I've said it before and I *won't* say it again:
Slow airs are, frankly, beyond the scope of this site. In my opinion, they're beyond the scope of ABC or another transcription: they can *only* be learned by ear.
They are deserving of their own website and I wish someone would stop complaining about this site and actually go and build a site for slow airs.
From the front page of this site:
"This website is one way of passing on jigs, reels and other dance tunes."
It's true that, in the past, when people have asked "how do I submit a slow air?", I've responded by telling them to submit it as a jig, reel, waltz or whatver.
But, y'know what; I've had it.
As of today, when someone asks "how do I submit a slow air?" my answer will simply be: "don't".
Problem solved.
Again, I'd like to make clear that this isn't because of any bias *against* slow airs but rather, it's because they are deserving of more respect.
# Posted on May 1st 2004 by Jeremy
Re: Ideas for change
I'd agree. Slow airs are so beautiful (when played properly) that they can't be learned by ABC or sheet music.
Lars..
# Posted on May 1st 2004 by Larshansen
Re: Ideas for change
dont know about abc because getting the rythm is harder to notate but you can certainly pick them up from sheet music. i know i do, it just depends on personal interpretation in the end.
# Posted on May 1st 2004 by aye
Re: Ideas for change
The guidelines for this site are clear and make sense. Nevertheless I goofed once recently and want to say "Sorry!" to Jeremy. I recently learned I would be moving to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. I excitedly posted a question here about where one could play there. Of course Jeremy had to remove it, as his guidelines clearly indicate this is off-limits for discussions. I should know to review guidelines, after all, as I'm associated editor myself over at Concertina.net, where we have our own set of peripheral or irrelevant questions that come up over and over. Considering how few people play concertina, they sure type a lot.
A search here not yielding any ITM-playing Session members in Pitt., I did what I should have in the first place and used a Web search to find several worthy local organizations. Looks like a musical place.
Thanks again Jeremy, for such a useful, and focused (!) Web site.
Ken
# Posted on May 2nd 2004 by KenC
Re: Ideas for change
From the point of view of a 100% user (no contrubutions yet, but beware), this site is really user friendly. Your suggestions, Jez, would lead to lots of confusion. Especially when it comes to inaccurate description. How would you imagine browsing a huge database of tunes looking for reels, of which half is submitted as reels, one third as reals, one-something as rels, and the rest as rails, roles or any other possible typos? The same goes for the rest.
. The topic has been chewed over zillions of times.
Now imagine the army of liberated minds who decide that their tunes are not so much of a reel, but something new, unique... And as such should have a category by itself. Believe me, these people are legion. And imagine the chaos.
The cause why you don't see slow airs or laments in here is... well, I would ask you to browse through discussions before making statements, if you don't want to irritate our benevolent benefactor, Jeremy. He's right, and not only because he's the Elder One of this site
Take care
Janek
# Posted on May 2nd 2004 by Janek
Re: Ideas for change
This website is a terrific tune resource, and a fun way to get to know musicians from all over the world to share ideas, tunes, information, and to have fun. Jeremy has done a terrific job, and spent considerable time putting this together. Just like the real world though, it's not perfect. There are places we could all find that fell short of something we try to do, and if Jeremy can figure out a way to fix something -- he'll do it. To organize ITM, with all of its idiosyncrasies and misnomers, is a daunting endeavor to consider at all
# Posted on May 2nd 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: Ideas for change
I agree with Jeremy. Airs demand more respect, and should only ever be learnt by ear. There should be a law against playing airs unless you've been playing your instrument for at least 100 years. I've never dared touch them, but I have great respect for people who do them well. The problem with airs is that because they're slow, some beginners think that they're easy. The way I understand it is that Jeremy created this site for dance tunes. Using abc for jigs and reels is unsatisfactory enough as an alternative to learning by ear, but at least it works if you know how to interpret it. Airs on the other hand are a different story. Use your lugs.
# Posted on May 2nd 2004 by Dr. Dow
Re: Ideas for change
Spot on Jeremy
# Posted on May 2nd 2004 by ...
Re: Ideas for change
fine, ok, forget slow airs, that wass probably the wrong line of argument to start on, but...even if presets are still used, it would be nice to know what they actually mean. What, for instance, is a slip jig? Or a barndnace for that matter. What's the difference between them or any of the others (apart from time sig) ? Do such tunes have to be written in a paticular style? I am one of those people who isn't particularly ''in the know'' about this technical stuff, i just play the tunes, but since it's a lot less hassle to know what it all means, i'd still like to know.
# Posted on May 2nd 2004 by NZ Jez
Re: Ideas for change
also....strathspey? mazurka?....what are they? (and before you start i know they're types of tune, not vegitables, foreign city states or animals)
# Posted on May 2nd 2004 by NZ Jez
Re: Ideas for change
NZ Jez, I'm pretty much in the same boat as you, my excuse being that I'm a real beginner, but I would reckon that expecting drop-down menus in the tune submission section to perform this teaching role is asking a bit much... perhaps? Sorry if I've misinterpreted your comment.
The "Search" function in the Discussion section will bring up heaps of information on the differences between all these types of tune.
# Posted on May 2nd 2004 by Tish
Re: Ideas for change
I think exclusion of airs is detrimental. If this is going to be pro "the tradition" which it claims to be, it should, at least, be consistent. Airs get played in sessions, and are a welcome addition when played well. I fail to see what the essential difference is between airs and other tunes that makes them so less amenable to being written down and learn't. Certainly they represent more of a challenge, but they do so in the learning of them anyway. Many good musicians write such tunes down, and I have so far found more "errors" in translation in the airs that I have learnt by ear (even from the likes of Kathleen Nesbitt) than I have from the airs I have learnt from score.
Yes there are technical reasons why an air might be more difficult to write down here, in which the air might be treated as a waltz, but couldn't a solution be to have an "Air" category with no time signiture, and indeed no bar lines or bar lines to imply metre if required. According to the ABC website some ABC parsers should be able to cope with such an arrangement.
I think rejection of airs is dumbing down to the LCD, whether in reality or in virtual reality sessions.
DA
# Posted on May 2nd 2004 by Jamie
Re: Ideas for change
Jeremy said: "Again, I'd like to make clear that this isn't because of any bias *against* slow airs but rather, it's because they are deserving of more respect". That doesn't sound like "rejection" to me. Either way, Jeremy has made his views clear, and I wouldn't have thought that saying he's "dumbing down to the LCD" is a very good way of making him change his mind.
# Posted on May 2nd 2004 by Dr. Dow
Re: Ideas for change
I'm not saying he's dumbing down, I'm saying that it would be selection of only the easier jigs (and reels), jigs and reels that give a quick fix in sessions and rejection of tunes that are more challenging (airs) and exposed to play, that would be the dumbing down. If not dumbing down certainly a corruption of a representative session.
# Posted on May 2nd 2004 by Jamie
Re: Ideas for change
When you are submitting a tune, there's a "help" tab at every stage of the submission process. Clicking on this tab will show additional information to help with the submission process.
I'll update the help tab on the first stage (which contains information on key signatures right now) to include more information on which tune types equate to which time signatures.
Thanks for the prompt, Jer: I wouldn't have thought of this otherwise.
# Posted on May 2nd 2004 by Jeremy
Re: Ideas for change
1) There's nothing to stop people playing airs at sessions whether they get posted here or not.
2) This website isn't a real-life session. It's a tune database and discussion board amongst other things. I don't think it necessarily claims to be an exact representation of what actually gets played at your average session, and there's no reason why it should be so.
# Posted on May 2nd 2004 by Dr. Dow
Re: Ideas for change
I think when a tradition is engaged from outwith an ethical responsibility follows.
# Posted on May 2nd 2004 by Jamie
Re: Ideas for change
Jamie, I didn't make the decision that slow airs should be notoriously difficult to transcribe and notate: that's simply the nature of the beast.
And again, I repeat, if anyone feels that The Session is not offering something that should be better catered to, chances are there's some other website dedicated to it. Check out the links section to find websites devoted to specific instruments or musicians. It should be the same for slow airs. And if no such web site exists yet, then build it.
Honestly, if The Session tries to be all things to all people, it will fail miserably. For instance, songs are often played at sessions but there's no "songs" section here. That's not because of any anti-song bias. It's simply not part of the scope for this site.
I'm sorry if you don't like the fact that there's no slow airs at The Session. You're just going to have to live with it because that's not changing.
If you feel that strongly about it then surely the "ethical responsibility" lies with you to provide the balance that you perceive is missing. I mean this sincerely: start your own slow air website.
# Posted on May 2nd 2004 by Jeremy
Re: Ideas for change
I agree with not posting slow airs. Also, if you can't tell whether or not the tune you want to post is a reel, hornpipe, jig etc, don't post it. User friendly is not just for the person posting, its also for the person reading it. If you have no idea, what's a beginner like me giong to do?
# Posted on May 3rd 2004 by Maple
Re: Ideas for change
Jeremy is certainly not dumbing down, and is supported by many people who know about music notation.
The bottom line is that slow airs are nearly always jigs, reels or waltzes and an excellent example of this is in O'Neills where there are some in the air section with loads of notes, slides, gliss. and more ornaments than you can shake an egg at. Who could play any of these unless they were experienced in notation.
By the same token, the rest of the airs section is full of tunes you can play as waltzes, jigs and reels. I have had many an interesting hour playing through the airs at a faster speed.
I personally feel that airs do not really have a place in the ITM session unless played by someone with the musical prescence and technique to carry it off. They can be played by beginners, but beware - if the rest of the musicians do not join in, you could be playing them too slowly.
Life is too short for slow-airs in sessions.
# Posted on May 3rd 2004 by geoffwright
Re: Ideas for change
If a beginner is uncertain about a tune s/he wishes to post, or needs help in preparing its ABC, then perhaps it would be useful to ask for help from within the membership. I'm not going to suggest any names, because that could put an unfair burden on otherwise busy people, but perhaps a list of volunteer "mentors" could be published.
Trevor
# Posted on May 3rd 2004 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Ideas for change (slow airs)
When I play slow airs I feel that I'm tapping a completely different part of my sense of music to do so. I would compare the playing of slow airs to something more like acting. Unlike playing dance tunes, you're engaging in drama and conjuring images playing. Besides the arbitrary rhythm, you can't notate emotional content. For these reasons it would be futile to include them on a site such as this. If you want to learn a slow air -- use an aural source. The musical notation for dance tunes is leaving out enough as it is, but notating slow airs would be leaving out far too much to be acceptable.
# Posted on May 3rd 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: Ideas for change
I agree that slow airs are quite tough to notate adequately, and that the other technical points Jeremy has raised are unanswerable as well.
Jeremy, suggestion? Maybe you should mention on the home page that this site doesn't include notation for slow airs, or something to that effect. That might help keep this particular pot from being stirred again.
And since this is Jeremy's site --- he created it, he runs it, he PAYS for it, and he provides it free as a fantastic resource to all of usn's --- maybe we should let the nice man run it the way he sees fit? ;)
Sara
# Posted on May 3rd 2004 by sara g
Re: Ideas for change
Cease in your argumenting people, because there is no argument here. Conclusions have been draw and results achived, so let us no dally apon the finer points for argument's sake. Lets us all be one with each other in peace and goodwill for our brethren. Let us all pay homage to Jeremy for his hard work and effort which will surely elivate him to deity-like status in times to come. As a mark of respect, let us not mention hereafter a certain two word phrase including the words 'slow' and indeed 'airs' unless we really have to, lest we invoke the rage of the almighty and be beaten soundly about the chops with our own instruments.
# Posted on May 4th 2004 by NZ Jez
Re: Ideas for change
Well said Jez. Now, about that elevation to deity status: Isn't it time Jeremy had a tune named for him?
Jeremy's?
Jeremy's Favo(u)rite?
Planxty Jeremy?
Jeremy's Chickens?
Where's Will H when you need him?
# Posted on May 4th 2004 by grego
Re: Ideas for change
He already has. Pants wrote one about Jeremy in the throes of passion:
http://thesession.org/tunes/display.php/1830
# Posted on May 4th 2004 by Dr. Dow
Re: Ideas for change
Great, love it!
# Posted on May 4th 2004 by grego
Re: Ideas for change
Previously I've asked myself the questions; "Why not let the person submitting the tune write in exactly what they want, rather than restricting them to limited menu choices?", and how would one submit an air with this system?
I think you've explained yourself well answering these questions Jeremy and I've come to agree with you, but if you don't mind me asking; Why do we not have all of the key signature options available when submitting tunes? I was about to submit a tune in C min when I found that both Cmin and Ebmaj were unavailable. Why is this?
# Posted on April 14th 2008 by Lykos
Re: Ideas for change
I dont think there is a single tune in Eflat major within the Irish Tradition. A person may play a tune in that key but it is more likely played in D by others.
If you have a tune in Cminor, transpose it down to Bminor and submit. I can honestly say that in my admittedly limited experiemce I have never come across a tune in C minor.
The limitations are within the music itself rather than imposed by Jeremy. As for Airs: that comes up again and again and it was a reasonable decision to leave airs out of the option list for tune types. If you want a site for submitting Airs, start one yourself. I dont think it is as easy (or possible) to learn an air from sheet music/dots.
# Posted on April 14th 2008 by Donough
Re: Ideas for change
Pants chose a bit of an awkward title, eh?
# Posted on April 14th 2008 by Will Harmon