How often do you other fiddlers change your strings.
I have been thinking about replacing the strings on mine. They have been on since 1988 (With the exception of the "D" string. It frayed a while back and I did change it) but they still have good tone.
I have a friend from Russia who is a "Violinest" and was at one time with the Moscow orchestra who told me the strings on his fiddle have been on it for over 20 years.
Is it along the lines of the theory, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"?
Well I agree with that attitude. Provided your nails are short, you wipe the strings down from time to time, they should last a good long time. I've changed mine twice twice I started playing five years ago, once because, being a guitar player, I didn't know any better and once because they started to fray.
My only string-changing quirk is that I can never bring myself to change just one. If one string goes awry I change them all.
That's not a bad quirk. I was just lazy. It was the middle of a gig, the thing started fraying, had time to change the one telling myself I'd do the rest later. Never happend.
Do you have a brand suggestion? What I have now is Old Fiddler line. I don't remember who made 'em. I've heard Dr Tonastic (Spelling unsure) super sensitive was good.
Are you all mad !!!!
The joy of a new set of strings is one you should experience as often as humanly possible.
Every six months or so, that's what I say.
The difference a new set of strings makes to the sound of your fiddle is massive too. If you can afford to buy good strings, go for it, they make all the difference.
Most of the people I know use Thomastik Spirocore (expensive) for trad playing only, but Thomastik Dominant (also expensive) for a bit of everything. Personally, I would always go for Spirocore.
I only change mine every 3 to 6 months which is pretty often I guess, I noticed the strings go "dead" after about two months or so & I've been told that's how aften they should be changed. It's all up to you but I'm sure there are freaks that change them every week, I use the Tomastik-Dominants & at 20-35 bucks a whack I'm reluctant to change them over unless the tone is mud or the strings are starting to fray.
PS. Anybody got any good insight on prolonging the life of an "A" string? those are always the first to fray for me - right around the B or C# position.
Years ago I used to change my strings every 6 months because the sound of new strings would spur me on to play more (blarney said it all) but due to financial circumstances I haven`t changed them for at least five years now. They sound o.k.
I get a good sound when I`m playing well. I use dominant strings and always have. So basically don`t change till they bust.
For me, it's a priority, I don't smoke or gamble, won't eat fast food, and I'll even drink less in order to change my strings at least twice a year. (hee hee) I teach Instrumental Music in the public schools, and recently found the school funds to change the strings for about ten violins, and the kids were trilled with the difference.
Those old strings still sounded OK after years and years, but when
the new ones got on those fiddles, Wow, their eyes lit up.
OK I'm sold. I think it's time I change my strings. If nothing else just the curiosity of how it will sound. I think I'll take Barny's advise and find some of them thar Thomastik Spirocore's.
I have to addmit it, before I started playing fiddle I was playing guitar and would change the strings on my Guild monthly whether they needed it or not.
Thanks for the input! I'll always take more. Lots of good counsel out there.
Well, I'd agree with the don't fix what's not broke theory...but also agree that sometimes you don't realize that it's broke until you fix it.
A new set of strings from SouthWest or other discounter will cost you between $25 and $75 US bucks. No matter how poor you are, you can save that up in a year pretty easily, even if it's only by taking all of your silver change out of your pockets every night and putting it in a jar that you never touch no matter how desperate your financial circumstances. It's less than a night out at a decent restaurant around here for me and my husband.
So financial circumstances being completely desperate aside, it's usually actually a matter of priorities more than finances.
I had a great set of Dominants on my fiddle, and then went to Ireland, and tried a new set of Irish strings, more or less just for fun. I wasn't crazy about them, and when I got back to Colorado, they quickly deteriorated, and I replaced them with a set of Prims that I'd had lying around for ages. Sooner or later I'll get back to the Dominants, I suppose, although I'll probably try some of the new types in between...
And I think most fiddlers tend to get almost superstitious about changing their strings once they've been on for a while...
Typically for me anyway, I got addicted to trying different strings. I think most people reckon it will improve the sound they make if they can just get a decent set on their fiddle. Huh!! doesn't work till you can play better anyway. Tried Dominants, Chromcore, Aricore, cheap metal ones and now I am using Obligato's. I quite like these ones, so who knows.
By the way do you know that if you finger a d on the a string and you slur that note onto an open e that unless you have a good *wound* string on the e it will make the most weird noise.
No one would believe me, even a violin maker said he could get any violin to do that. I challenged him and guess what NO he couldn't on a wound e. Anyway apparently it is known about but not discussed, but happens to have a scientific paper published on it. Just a bit of probably useless info for you. Classical players don't really use open strings for them to bother about it. If you get fine ground windings whey will still whislte though. I paid over £6 for my Obligato gold plated e which came with the set. It had the best sound of an e string I have ever had, but it had to go as it was sooooooooo embarassing when it whistled, so I am back to a wound e again.
Don't know why they're so darned expensive though asI have had to change a set after about 4 months as the sound was just so dead (incidently noticed as I was playing it went that suddenly) but I do practice rather a lot.
ttfn
Sharron
i use thomastik spirocore and change them aafter 6 months, with the exception of the g string which seems to loose its warm tone after about 4 months
i suppose it also depends on how much you use those strings as well eh? i dont think they wouldhave lasted since 88 if they were being used 24 hours a day
your pretty lucky not to have had any snaps in all that time anyway!
In 20 years of playing I've tried lots of different strings. Settled on the Thomastik Dominants for quite a few years, but never liked their e string, and the A comes unwrapped too quickly. So I started searching again, and now I've settled on Pirastro Obligato's or Evah Pirazzi's. You can get them through Johnson String Supplies in the U.S. for about $44 US. Most places sell them for closer to $65 US.
Both of these strings are synthetic core, made to feel and sound something like gut, but without the tuning headaches. They are very responsive and produce the best tone on my fiddle of any string I've tried. They're also durable, lasting much longer than the Thomastiks.
The Pirazzi's are a bit brighter than the Obligato's (which produce a darker, woodier tone on my fiddle), and they both take a few days to settle in. By that I mean that they'll stretch a little and go flat between playing, and their tone doesn't reach its full potential until you've played them for 6-10 hours. But then they're very stable and sound terrific--to me, well worth the higher cost.
Brad, those As that wear out are a common problem, especially on Thomastiks. If you don't already, use a fingernail emery board to take the rough edges off any callouses on your fingertips--I do this EVERY time before I play. Also, wipe the strings down after playing--one rag to take the rosin off at the bridge end, and a clean cloth to remove some of the hand oils and sweat off the scroll end. You may also need your fingerboard dressed or even planed, to remove grooves and humps that develop from playing. These humps and divots lead to intonation problems and early string wear. And try the Pirazzi's--they're a good upgrade from the Thomastiks.
I change my strings as often as they need to be changed--usually every 3-6 months. The synthetic core strings gradually lose their good tone due to repeated tuning and playing. If you're performing and want to sound your best, you might change even more often. When I'm playing for myself and at sessions, I'll keep a set on as long as they still sound okay to my ear.
Hi Will, as I am using Obligato's too, but have had to replaced the e string for whistling. Have you kept yours on? Have you found as a good a sounding e string but wound? I loved the sound of it but don't want to have the problem of the unwound string to deal with. No, I am not being lazy altering my bowing so I won't have the problem as I don't see any reason to try when a wound string just doesn't cause the poblem in the first place.
I'll be interested to know what you have found.
Thanks
ttfn
Sharron
I like the Obligato e--warmer than most e strings out there. So I leave it on.
Yes, it can whistle, but *any* string can be made to do that (even wound, and even the A, D, and G strings). True, some strings whistle easier than others (the thinner, higher tension, the easier it is), and e's more readily than the other three, but in my experience the whistling has less to do with the string and more to do with comitting hair to the string--many fiddlers get an occasional whistle on the e string because they're most tentative and try to lighten the pressure of the bow on that string in an attempt to avoid the harshness or shrill sounds that e strings on many fiddles can produce. I find it helps instead to aim for a full round tone on the e (and any string) before you move the bow there. Most of that comes from fully relaxing the arm and wrist and allowing your bow hand to follow the arc gravity sets for it (whereas on the other strings you must ratchet the upper arm up a bit to reach the strings). The weight of the bow will do the rest.
I've also noticed that this problem is more common among classical players moving to folk music because their ears are not accustomed to that open e string sound. They do everything possible to soften their touch (searching for that fingered, vibrato e), and end up whistling. Some become incredibly gun shy around tunes that feature the open e.
In short, Sharron, I'm trying to politely suggest that the whistle is more likely due to your bowing, not the string. You may be more confident that a wound string won't whistle, and so your "attack" is better.
You might also like the Pirastro Evah Pirazzi strings--a little brighter (not much) than the Obligato's, and a nice tone on the e. They are softer to the touch than the Obligato's, and very even across the board. Usually sell for the same price, too.
Hi Will, did you not read what I said about the whistling?
No it is not my bowing, once you get the sound I am on about no amount of pressure, speed or whatever will make a difference.
A plain e string I can make it do it EVERY TIME without exception. On demand if you like. It DOES NOT happen with several wound e strings. I did find a wound e which was quite expensive but it apparently had a *fine ground* winding on it.
I actually bought 6 sets of wound e strings (all different) and only had a problem with this fine ground one.
As I said no-one would believe me, but if a professional player can do *it* on command, so they think. Then it should also happen with a wound e string, and they just can't do it.
The sound is not that of bad bowing Will, it is a unique sound I have only heard when slurring from a d -on -the -a string to an open e.
Try it and see. Since I have mentioned it to loads of people they all agree that they can't do it on a wound e string but they can on an unwound one.
Go on Will, I dare you, go try it.
ttfn
Sharron
p.s. I will stick to the Obligato's but will continue to search for that elicit sound of the gold e but with a winding
Sharron, I guarrantee that in 20 years of fiddling I've made every string whistle, even the G. Yes, I can make wound e's whistle, but more importantly I can avoid whistling, even on unwound e strings. I just made the wound e whistle on my "second" fiddle (my main fiddle has the Obligato unwound e). I can do it slurring onto the e, or just bowing the e. It IS about bowing. It happens when you have too little hair on the string and pressure without "bite." It's easier to initiate when you bow closer to the bridge and use too little rosin. It's easier still if a left hand finger is slightly in contact with the e string. The whistle is actually the octave harmonic tone (you'll get the same pitch--though not the same shrillness--if you touch the string, without pushing it down, halfway between the nut and the bridge and drag your bow across the string).
Hi Will,
Sorry, but my bowing ain't the problem. I cannot stand the sound of a wispy tone, so I actually have quite a strong and driving bow.
The sound I get, as I have already said is actually quite loud and not a harmonic sound at all. I am not the only one who knows about this problem of unwound versus wound e strings. This violin maker sells strings also and only sold plain e's as he didn't see any need for the extra money they cost. Here sure changed his mind now though. He only stocks the sets with wound e's now,except for the Obligato's, which normally go to classical players anyway (remember they don't use open strings so don't have the problem).
I did not *discover* this problem, but did bring it to the attention of a lot of players after I *discovered* it for myself.
As I said also before, there is a scientific paper published on this, (the violin maker was curious and told me about it) but it goes way beyond why it does it, and my mind just went blank when he started telling me the why's and wherefor's. What I do know is that he was most suprised to discover that what he thought caused it, wasn't in fact the problem at all. There is no way of breaking this sound except by altering the bow stroke to another direction.
By the way Will, how on earth do you get all these strings to whistle?
I've never had a whistle on any string apart from these e's.
I watch my bow stroke VERY carefully to make sure that it is parallel to the bridge, and consistent in tone through varying pressure. Maybe you should also try checking your bow position to see if you can stop the whistling from happening. I have seen many people bowing in weird directions and all using varying amount of hair, and from what I here from their playing, has made me more determined to play with a strong and well placed bowing pattern.
Hi Sharron
I used to use Pirastro Gold Label unwound E strings and they didn't whistle!? I am going to investigate further though. Most of the people I teach use unwound E's so I'm going to try all of thiers. I'll report back on my extremely un scientific findings. These laboritory like experiments may take place after the consumption of lager, so I don't know how accurate my results wil be, but I will publish my findings in due course.
Sharron,
I'll be blunt, but only because I've tried to be nice and it didn't work.
I said I could make the strings whistle, NOT that it happened inadvertently. You have no idea what my fiddling sounds like or how proficient I am. You happen to be way off the mark. So your patronizing tone and willful twisting of words is unwarranted and incredibly rude. There is nothing funny or redeeming about it, as far as I can see. Please stop.
From where I sit, it sounds like you are so sure of your own knowledge that you don't really listen to what others have to say. I don't know why you asked for my input in the first place.
The horizons of your world do not mark the horizons of mine.
Well, Will, I was going to ignore her from here on out (well, several posts back, actually), myself -- anyone who admits that she's that inexperienced, and still can talk to a fiddler with your amount of experience like that shouldn't be listened to, I expect. Somebody offer Sharron some powder for that athlete's foot on her tongue, would you? Maybe someday she'll come to that "ah-ha moment" herself, but in the meantime she proves the point about why you shouldn't try to be gentle in hinting about to people when they're botching it at a session.
Hey, Will, I do appreciate all the excellent and highly detailed advice you've just provided to those of us who are interested in how NOT to make a string whistle.
I have the problem occasionally (but by no means "every single time") and usually found it due to poor finger placement on the "a" string, as you mentioned.
For the record I use Helicore (D'addario? can't remember) and really like them. They are metal cored and durable with a warm, rich tone on my fiddle. I wonder if certain fiddles prefer certain strings. There might be no real answer to this question but to find a set your fiddle approves of and stick with it.
by the way, here's my theory on why the unwound e string might whistle when you don't change the bowing direction from the d on the a string:
every string requires a particular touch to obtain a full tone. the unwound e, being smoother, requires a slightly more committed touch (see Will's post above) to produce the vibration necessary to make it ring. This change obviously has to happen at the moment of contact. Pretty tough to do if you're slurring from the a string without changing your pressure with perfect timing. A wound e string, with the same amount of resistance to the bow as a wound a, would not require this kind of split-second timing. no real mystery there. I'm surprised an actual scientist gave it more than ten minutes thought.
That said, my unwound e string does not cause me any trouble when I am playing at my best, and I'm not that good, so I can only assume it will not be a problem at all when I reach a certain level of experience.
just a footnote before everyone rips the unwound e's off their instruments, I tried this experiment on my helicore unwound e this morning and got no whistle as long as I was concentrating on bow technique and aiming for good tone. I didn't get the whistle until I got sloppy and overconfident.
I had a set of strings on my fiddle for so long that I couldn't remember when, where or why I got them or why I chose them. Last March I bought a set of Helicore at Custy's in Ennis. Beautiful. Take them out of their envelopes and they feel more like a fabric than a metal. I feel I am ready for another set. I play 4 or 5 times a week. I was surprised that it took so long for Helicore to appear in the discussion.
The tone of any fiddle can be improved by putting on a decent set of strings - think the other way and imagine what it would sound like if you strung it up with garden wire! Having said that, the choice of strings is usually a matter of experiment, supplemented if possible with advice from a knowledgeable fiddle maker. It's not uncommon for players to mix 'n' match strings until they find the optimum combination. I went through this process recently. I changed from Thomastic Spirocore to Zyex (made by D'Addario). I gave the Zyex a few weeks to settle down then found, on advice from a classical violinist friend, that even more improvement could be got by putting on a Pirastro Olive E and a Helicore A. I retained the Zyex G and D because they give such a rich almost viola-like sound. The Olive E is brighter and clearer than the Zyex E, while the Zyex A was too powerful, almost raucous, compared with the other strings. The balance now is very good. All this works on my fiddle, but may not necessarily on others. I know a classical concert violinist who gets the best results on his immensely expensive early Italian violin with the relatively inexpensive Helicores! And there is an eminent Russian soloist who regularly uses the cheapest E string in the catalog on his Stradivari.
Fortunately, swapping and changing fiddle strings isn't too expensive, within reason. Think of the cellist or double bass player - a complete string change for them is often a matter of prayer and fasting (to save the money!) followed by earnest discussions with the DFA (domestic financial advisor) and the bank manager.
Average life of fiddle strings?
Average life of fiddle strings?
How often do you other fiddlers change your strings.
I have been thinking about replacing the strings on mine. They have been on since 1988 (With the exception of the "D" string. It frayed a while back and I did change it) but they still have good tone.
I have a friend from Russia who is a "Violinest" and was at one time with the Moscow orchestra who told me the strings on his fiddle have been on it for over 20 years.
Is it along the lines of the theory, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"?
I'd be interested in your feedback.
Thanks!
Tiny
# Posted on February 16th 2002 by flyinfiddler
Re: Average life of fiddle strings?
Well I agree with that attitude. Provided your nails are short, you wipe the strings down from time to time, they should last a good long time. I've changed mine twice twice I started playing five years ago, once because, being a guitar player, I didn't know any better and once because they started to fray.
My only string-changing quirk is that I can never bring myself to change just one. If one string goes awry I change them all.
# Posted on February 16th 2002 by Kerri Brown
Re: Average life of fiddle strings?
That's not a bad quirk. I was just lazy. It was the middle of a gig, the thing started fraying, had time to change the one telling myself I'd do the rest later. Never happend.
Do you have a brand suggestion? What I have now is Old Fiddler line. I don't remember who made 'em. I've heard Dr Tonastic (Spelling unsure) super sensitive was good.
# Posted on February 16th 2002 by flyinfiddler
Re: Average life of fiddle strings?
Are you all mad !!!!
The joy of a new set of strings is one you should experience as often as humanly possible.
Every six months or so, that's what I say.
The difference a new set of strings makes to the sound of your fiddle is massive too. If you can afford to buy good strings, go for it, they make all the difference.
Most of the people I know use Thomastik Spirocore (expensive) for trad playing only, but Thomastik Dominant (also expensive) for a bit of everything. Personally, I would always go for Spirocore.
# Posted on February 16th 2002 by barney morgan
Re: Average life of fiddle strings?
I only change mine every 3 to 6 months which is pretty often I guess, I noticed the strings go "dead" after about two months or so & I've been told that's how aften they should be changed. It's all up to you but I'm sure there are freaks that change them every week, I use the Tomastik-Dominants & at 20-35 bucks a whack I'm reluctant to change them over unless the tone is mud or the strings are starting to fray.
PS. Anybody got any good insight on prolonging the life of an "A" string? those are always the first to fray for me - right around the B or C# position.
# Posted on February 16th 2002 by Brad Maloney
Re: Average life of fiddle strings?
Years ago I used to change my strings every 6 months because the sound of new strings would spur me on to play more (blarney said it all) but due to financial circumstances I haven`t changed them for at least five years now. They sound o.k.
I get a good sound when I`m playing well. I use dominant strings and always have. So basically don`t change till they bust.
# Posted on February 16th 2002 by Atk
Re: Average life of fiddle strings?
For me, it's a priority, I don't smoke or gamble, won't eat fast food, and I'll even drink less in order to change my strings at least twice a year. (hee hee) I teach Instrumental Music in the public schools, and recently found the school funds to change the strings for about ten violins, and the kids were trilled with the difference.
Those old strings still sounded OK after years and years, but when
the new ones got on those fiddles, Wow, their eyes lit up.
# Posted on February 16th 2002 by Carl Conn
Re: Average life of fiddle strings?
OK I'm sold. I think it's time I change my strings. If nothing else just the curiosity of how it will sound. I think I'll take Barny's advise and find some of them thar Thomastik Spirocore's.
I have to addmit it, before I started playing fiddle I was playing guitar and would change the strings on my Guild monthly whether they needed it or not.
Thanks for the input! I'll always take more. Lots of good counsel out there.
# Posted on February 16th 2002 by flyinfiddler
Re: Average life of fiddle strings?
Well, I'd agree with the don't fix what's not broke theory...but also agree that sometimes you don't realize that it's broke until you fix it.
A new set of strings from SouthWest or other discounter will cost you between $25 and $75 US bucks. No matter how poor you are, you can save that up in a year pretty easily, even if it's only by taking all of your silver change out of your pockets every night and putting it in a jar that you never touch no matter how desperate your financial circumstances. It's less than a night out at a decent restaurant around here for me and my husband.
So financial circumstances being completely desperate aside, it's usually actually a matter of priorities more than finances.
I had a great set of Dominants on my fiddle, and then went to Ireland, and tried a new set of Irish strings, more or less just for fun. I wasn't crazy about them, and when I got back to Colorado, they quickly deteriorated, and I replaced them with a set of Prims that I'd had lying around for ages. Sooner or later I'll get back to the Dominants, I suppose, although I'll probably try some of the new types in between...
And I think most fiddlers tend to get almost superstitious about changing their strings once they've been on for a while...
Zina
# Posted on February 16th 2002 by Zina Lee
Re: Average life of fiddle strings?
Typically for me anyway, I got addicted to trying different strings. I think most people reckon it will improve the sound they make if they can just get a decent set on their fiddle. Huh!! doesn't work till you can play better anyway. Tried Dominants, Chromcore, Aricore, cheap metal ones and now I am using Obligato's. I quite like these ones, so who knows.
By the way do you know that if you finger a d on the a string and you slur that note onto an open e that unless you have a good *wound* string on the e it will make the most weird noise.
No one would believe me, even a violin maker said he could get any violin to do that. I challenged him and guess what NO he couldn't on a wound e. Anyway apparently it is known about but not discussed, but happens to have a scientific paper published on it. Just a bit of probably useless info for you. Classical players don't really use open strings for them to bother about it. If you get fine ground windings whey will still whislte though. I paid over £6 for my Obligato gold plated e which came with the set. It had the best sound of an e string I have ever had, but it had to go as it was sooooooooo embarassing when it whistled, so I am back to a wound e again.
Don't know why they're so darned expensive though asI have had to change a set after about 4 months as the sound was just so dead (incidently noticed as I was playing it went that suddenly) but I do practice rather a lot.
ttfn
Sharron
# Posted on February 16th 2002 by
Re: Average life of fiddle strings?
i use thomastik spirocore and change them aafter 6 months, with the exception of the g string which seems to loose its warm tone after about 4 months
i suppose it also depends on how much you use those strings as well eh? i dont think they wouldhave lasted since 88 if they were being used 24 hours a day
your pretty lucky not to have had any snaps in all that time anyway!
# Posted on February 17th 2002 by laura nesbit
Re: Average life of fiddle strings?
Yep. One snap. That's pretty lucky. Not quite 24 hours a day, but pretty much daily.
# Posted on February 17th 2002 by flyinfiddler
Re: Average life of fiddle strings?
In 20 years of playing I've tried lots of different strings. Settled on the Thomastik Dominants for quite a few years, but never liked their e string, and the A comes unwrapped too quickly. So I started searching again, and now I've settled on Pirastro Obligato's or Evah Pirazzi's. You can get them through Johnson String Supplies in the U.S. for about $44 US. Most places sell them for closer to $65 US.
Both of these strings are synthetic core, made to feel and sound something like gut, but without the tuning headaches. They are very responsive and produce the best tone on my fiddle of any string I've tried. They're also durable, lasting much longer than the Thomastiks.
The Pirazzi's are a bit brighter than the Obligato's (which produce a darker, woodier tone on my fiddle), and they both take a few days to settle in. By that I mean that they'll stretch a little and go flat between playing, and their tone doesn't reach its full potential until you've played them for 6-10 hours. But then they're very stable and sound terrific--to me, well worth the higher cost.
Brad, those As that wear out are a common problem, especially on Thomastiks. If you don't already, use a fingernail emery board to take the rough edges off any callouses on your fingertips--I do this EVERY time before I play. Also, wipe the strings down after playing--one rag to take the rosin off at the bridge end, and a clean cloth to remove some of the hand oils and sweat off the scroll end. You may also need your fingerboard dressed or even planed, to remove grooves and humps that develop from playing. These humps and divots lead to intonation problems and early string wear. And try the Pirazzi's--they're a good upgrade from the Thomastiks.
I change my strings as often as they need to be changed--usually every 3-6 months. The synthetic core strings gradually lose their good tone due to repeated tuning and playing. If you're performing and want to sound your best, you might change even more often. When I'm playing for myself and at sessions, I'll keep a set on as long as they still sound okay to my ear.
# Posted on February 18th 2002 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: Average life of fiddle strings?
Hi Will, as I am using Obligato's too, but have had to replaced the e string for whistling. Have you kept yours on? Have you found as a good a sounding e string but wound? I loved the sound of it but don't want to have the problem of the unwound string to deal with. No, I am not being lazy altering my bowing so I won't have the problem as I don't see any reason to try when a wound string just doesn't cause the poblem in the first place.
I'll be interested to know what you have found.
Thanks
ttfn
Sharron
# Posted on February 18th 2002 by
Re: Average life of fiddle strings?
I like the Obligato e--warmer than most e strings out there. So I leave it on.
Yes, it can whistle, but *any* string can be made to do that (even wound, and even the A, D, and G strings). True, some strings whistle easier than others (the thinner, higher tension, the easier it is), and e's more readily than the other three, but in my experience the whistling has less to do with the string and more to do with comitting hair to the string--many fiddlers get an occasional whistle on the e string because they're most tentative and try to lighten the pressure of the bow on that string in an attempt to avoid the harshness or shrill sounds that e strings on many fiddles can produce. I find it helps instead to aim for a full round tone on the e (and any string) before you move the bow there. Most of that comes from fully relaxing the arm and wrist and allowing your bow hand to follow the arc gravity sets for it (whereas on the other strings you must ratchet the upper arm up a bit to reach the strings). The weight of the bow will do the rest.
I've also noticed that this problem is more common among classical players moving to folk music because their ears are not accustomed to that open e string sound. They do everything possible to soften their touch (searching for that fingered, vibrato e), and end up whistling. Some become incredibly gun shy around tunes that feature the open e.
In short, Sharron, I'm trying to politely suggest that the whistle is more likely due to your bowing, not the string. You may be more confident that a wound string won't whistle, and so your "attack" is better.
You might also like the Pirastro Evah Pirazzi strings--a little brighter (not much) than the Obligato's, and a nice tone on the e. They are softer to the touch than the Obligato's, and very even across the board. Usually sell for the same price, too.
Will
# Posted on February 19th 2002 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: Average life of fiddle strings?
Hi Will, did you not read what I said about the whistling?
No it is not my bowing, once you get the sound I am on about no amount of pressure, speed or whatever will make a difference.
A plain e string I can make it do it EVERY TIME without exception. On demand if you like. It DOES NOT happen with several wound e strings. I did find a wound e which was quite expensive but it apparently had a *fine ground* winding on it.
I actually bought 6 sets of wound e strings (all different) and only had a problem with this fine ground one.
As I said no-one would believe me, but if a professional player can do *it* on command, so they think. Then it should also happen with a wound e string, and they just can't do it.
The sound is not that of bad bowing Will, it is a unique sound I have only heard when slurring from a d -on -the -a string to an open e.
Try it and see. Since I have mentioned it to loads of people they all agree that they can't do it on a wound e string but they can on an unwound one.
Go on Will, I dare you, go try it.
ttfn
Sharron
p.s. I will stick to the Obligato's but will continue to search for that elicit sound of the gold e but with a winding
# Posted on February 19th 2002 by
Re: Average life of fiddle strings?
Sharron, I guarrantee that in 20 years of fiddling I've made every string whistle, even the G. Yes, I can make wound e's whistle, but more importantly I can avoid whistling, even on unwound e strings. I just made the wound e whistle on my "second" fiddle (my main fiddle has the Obligato unwound e). I can do it slurring onto the e, or just bowing the e. It IS about bowing. It happens when you have too little hair on the string and pressure without "bite." It's easier to initiate when you bow closer to the bridge and use too little rosin. It's easier still if a left hand finger is slightly in contact with the e string. The whistle is actually the octave harmonic tone (you'll get the same pitch--though not the same shrillness--if you touch the string, without pushing it down, halfway between the nut and the bridge and drag your bow across the string).
Good luck with your wound e's.
Will
# Posted on February 19th 2002 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: Average life of fiddle strings?
Hi Will,
Sorry, but my bowing ain't the problem. I cannot stand the sound of a wispy tone, so I actually have quite a strong and driving bow.
The sound I get, as I have already said is actually quite loud and not a harmonic sound at all. I am not the only one who knows about this problem of unwound versus wound e strings. This violin maker sells strings also and only sold plain e's as he didn't see any need for the extra money they cost. Here sure changed his mind now though. He only stocks the sets with wound e's now,except for the Obligato's, which normally go to classical players anyway (remember they don't use open strings so don't have the problem).
I did not *discover* this problem, but did bring it to the attention of a lot of players after I *discovered* it for myself.
As I said also before, there is a scientific paper published on this, (the violin maker was curious and told me about it) but it goes way beyond why it does it, and my mind just went blank when he started telling me the why's and wherefor's. What I do know is that he was most suprised to discover that what he thought caused it, wasn't in fact the problem at all. There is no way of breaking this sound except by altering the bow stroke to another direction.
By the way Will, how on earth do you get all these strings to whistle?
I've never had a whistle on any string apart from these e's.
I watch my bow stroke VERY carefully to make sure that it is parallel to the bridge, and consistent in tone through varying pressure. Maybe you should also try checking your bow position to see if you can stop the whistling from happening. I have seen many people bowing in weird directions and all using varying amount of hair, and from what I here from their playing, has made me more determined to play with a strong and well placed bowing pattern.
# Posted on February 19th 2002 by
Re: Average life of fiddle strings?
Hi Sharron
I used to use Pirastro Gold Label unwound E strings and they didn't whistle!? I am going to investigate further though. Most of the people I teach use unwound E's so I'm going to try all of thiers. I'll report back on my extremely un scientific findings. These laboritory like experiments may take place after the consumption of lager, so I don't know how accurate my results wil be, but I will publish my findings in due course.
# Posted on February 20th 2002 by barney morgan
Re: Average life of fiddle strings?
Sharron,
I'll be blunt, but only because I've tried to be nice and it didn't work.
I said I could make the strings whistle, NOT that it happened inadvertently. You have no idea what my fiddling sounds like or how proficient I am. You happen to be way off the mark. So your patronizing tone and willful twisting of words is unwarranted and incredibly rude. There is nothing funny or redeeming about it, as far as I can see. Please stop.
From where I sit, it sounds like you are so sure of your own knowledge that you don't really listen to what others have to say. I don't know why you asked for my input in the first place.
The horizons of your world do not mark the horizons of mine.
I'm done with this thread for a good long while.
# Posted on February 20th 2002 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: Average life of fiddle strings?
Well, Will, I was going to ignore her from here on out (well, several posts back, actually), myself -- anyone who admits that she's that inexperienced, and still can talk to a fiddler with your amount of experience like that shouldn't be listened to, I expect. Somebody offer Sharron some powder for that athlete's foot on her tongue, would you? Maybe someday she'll come to that "ah-ha moment" herself, but in the meantime she proves the point about why you shouldn't try to be gentle in hinting about to people when they're botching it at a session.
Oh, and how about them Broncos? hehehe
Zina
# Posted on February 20th 2002 by Zina Lee
Re: Average life of fiddle strings?
Hey, Will, I do appreciate all the excellent and highly detailed advice you've just provided to those of us who are interested in how NOT to make a string whistle.
I have the problem occasionally (but by no means "every single time") and usually found it due to poor finger placement on the "a" string, as you mentioned.
For the record I use Helicore (D'addario? can't remember) and really like them. They are metal cored and durable with a warm, rich tone on my fiddle. I wonder if certain fiddles prefer certain strings. There might be no real answer to this question but to find a set your fiddle approves of and stick with it.
# Posted on February 20th 2002 by Kerri Brown
by the way, here's my theory on why the unwound e string might whistle when you don't change the bowing direction from the d on the a string:
every string requires a particular touch to obtain a full tone. the unwound e, being smoother, requires a slightly more committed touch (see Will's post above) to produce the vibration necessary to make it ring. This change obviously has to happen at the moment of contact. Pretty tough to do if you're slurring from the a string without changing your pressure with perfect timing. A wound e string, with the same amount of resistance to the bow as a wound a, would not require this kind of split-second timing. no real mystery there. I'm surprised an actual scientist gave it more than ten minutes thought.
That said, my unwound e string does not cause me any trouble when I am playing at my best, and I'm not that good, so I can only assume it will not be a problem at all when I reach a certain level of experience.
# Posted on February 20th 2002 by Kerri Brown
Re: Average life of fiddle strings?
just a footnote before everyone rips the unwound e's off their instruments, I tried this experiment on my helicore unwound e this morning and got no whistle as long as I was concentrating on bow technique and aiming for good tone. I didn't get the whistle until I got sloppy and overconfident.
# Posted on February 20th 2002 by Kerri Brown
Re: Average life of fiddle strings?
Sharon appears to have left us.
# Posted on February 21st 2002 by barney morgan
Re: Average life of fiddle strings?
I had a set of strings on my fiddle for so long that I couldn't remember when, where or why I got them or why I chose them. Last March I bought a set of Helicore at Custy's in Ennis. Beautiful. Take them out of their envelopes and they feel more like a fabric than a metal. I feel I am ready for another set. I play 4 or 5 times a week. I was surprised that it took so long for Helicore to appear in the discussion.
# Posted on February 21st 2002 by lukegarry
Re: Average life of fiddle strings?
play nice
# Posted on February 24th 2002 by Spdtt
Re: Average life of fiddle strings?
The tone of any fiddle can be improved by putting on a decent set of strings - think the other way and imagine what it would sound like if you strung it up with garden wire! Having said that, the choice of strings is usually a matter of experiment, supplemented if possible with advice from a knowledgeable fiddle maker. It's not uncommon for players to mix 'n' match strings until they find the optimum combination. I went through this process recently. I changed from Thomastic Spirocore to Zyex (made by D'Addario). I gave the Zyex a few weeks to settle down then found, on advice from a classical violinist friend, that even more improvement could be got by putting on a Pirastro Olive E and a Helicore A. I retained the Zyex G and D because they give such a rich almost viola-like sound. The Olive E is brighter and clearer than the Zyex E, while the Zyex A was too powerful, almost raucous, compared with the other strings. The balance now is very good. All this works on my fiddle, but may not necessarily on others. I know a classical concert violinist who gets the best results on his immensely expensive early Italian violin with the relatively inexpensive Helicores! And there is an eminent Russian soloist who regularly uses the cheapest E string in the catalog on his Stradivari.
Fortunately, swapping and changing fiddle strings isn't too expensive, within reason. Think of the cellist or double bass player - a complete string change for them is often a matter of prayer and fasting (to save the money!) followed by earnest discussions with the DFA (domestic financial advisor) and the bank manager.
m
# Posted on October 30th 2002 by lazyhound