I've been tracking the newest (and hottest) discussion: "Session Ettiquette: What to do when a guitar-player won't keep quiet" and While I agree with most of what has been said, it does make me feel a little uncomfortable about showing up to sessions. I play (you guessed it) the guitar, and have been accompanying ITM for 3 or 4 years now. I do try to play in a restrained but interesting fashion...
What is the deal with dadgad? Every melody player I have ever met wants dadgad tuning - what for? I've never been succesful in figuring that system out, but I can do a great deal with standard tuning, much more than is really neccessary for accompanying ITM.
(1)Why do you melody players want dadgad when eadgbe is good enough for the simple restrained chord work you seem to prefer?
(2) Are there any other guitarists out there who can point me in the right direction as regards dadgad tuning so that (if it's so desirable) I can make some headway with it?
You don't sound to me like most of the people that have been the topic of the discussion. The ones (I think) we've been discussing are those who realy don't care what they add to the session, as long as they can be heard happily banging away on their guitar, mandolin, or whatever without any regard of anyone else in the session.
I never could figure out the DADGAD thing. I'm with you.EADGBE was always good enough for me. However, I've played with some guys who do the DADGAD thing and they can get some pretty sweet music out of it. I do think DADGAD has a great sound to it, but with the right picker the standard tuning is just as neat.
As a melody player, I don't really care what tuning a guitar is in, as long as the person playing it has some knowledge and ability to add to the music rather than detract from it. DADGAD makes for some nice "open" sounding chords behind the tunes.
To me, playing "behind" the tunes is what good accompaniment is all about--not trying to make the back-up the center of attention. Thomas, it sounds like you're sensitive to that. You'd be welcome at my session, though you might have to rotate playing time with our one other regular tastfeul guitarist.
Thomas, reading Brad's comment, a possible clarification comes to mind.
Most DADGAD players I've heard play a lot of open string chords, letting them ring. That works just fine if they keep the volume in line with (well below) what the melody players are doing. If the chord noise gets too loud, it tends to wash out, as Brad describes.
The EADGBE players I play with do more vamping and muting on barre chords or killing the occasional open string, leaving more space or air in the sound to fit in with the air between the melody notes. Some melody players prefer this kind of back up.
It still boils down to personal taste. Some guitarists can do it all. I've heard Donal Clancy, Daithi Sproule, and Donogh Hennessy switch from one approach to the other with skill and taste and remarkable sensitivity to the music. Choose a style you feel comfortable with, and experiment with other approaches as time and inclination allow.
thomas, the last thing I'd want to do with my ranting is scare accompanists away from sessions completely... I can't stress enough that the griping isn't about guitars specifically as much as it is about people who don't listen and don't care if their contribution to the session hurts more than it helps. This doesn't have to be a guitar player... it could also be a piper or an accordionist or a penny whistler (never a fiddler, though ;^D)
The reason dadgad is preferred, I think, is that with just one or two fingers you can leave the third undefined, which is perhaps a bit more suited to some of the modal tunes. Also, with a few basic formulae it's possible to whip up complementary chords and the ascending / descending patterns that can do so much to enhance the tune. Last but not least, in an open tuning you establish a pipe-like drone because several strings are always left open. Not only is this very well suited to the music, but it also helps to drown out a lot of extraneous pub noise.
Most of the players I know, if they are playing in regular tuning, at least drop the low E to a D to get that fuller sound. That said, my preference is not for "regular tuning" players or "open tuning" players, but for whomever can set a rhythm, follow the pulse and play appropriate sounding chords without drowning out the melody.
Good luck, Thomas... I'll see if I can find any good educational resources online for dadgad tuning in case you'd like to sort it out a bit and then choose your preference, rather than just defaulting to the familiar tuning. (Then you can say "I prefer regular tuning" instead of "I can't figure out dadgad")
There have been quite a few guitar-oriented discussions lately (including clashing opinions on the pros and cons of some of the various tunings used in ITM).
Basically every open tuning is no more than a way to get a different sound from a guitar. DADGAD somehow became the standard tuning for many guitarists playing Irish music. Actually I don
Thanks guys, helpful comments. Always good for us rhythm players to get a little feedback from the other side. It also helps me to arrange instrumentation on the sets I put together for my own ceili band. Yeah, they've chose a guitarist to make the decisions. Your comments help me to do a reality check, you know - see how people other than myself like to set this stuff up.
I'm sorry, I miss a lot of english vocabulary (as well as music vocabulary), could you help me understand all this? What does DADGAD, EADGBE and ITM mean?? I'm loosing my english, but I try to understand as much as I can; All the discussions are so interesting, and, not knowing a lot about irish music, I'm learning a lot here...
Thanks!
I'll apologize in advance, Kerri, but ITM is an abbreviation, not an acronym. An acronym is an abbreviation that is pronounced as a new word, like NASA (which is pronounced Nasa, and not N-A-S-A).
Ack! Don't you go encouraging Dirk to start using those drones again, Dave! I'm only just now curing him of wanting to use them all the time... Kidding, just kidding. Seriously, though, you can overuse drones major big time (especially if your listener is hung over). It also makes it really hard on accompanists who aren't expert, as drones can sound pretty awful with some of the big chords.
Don't you get started on definitions, either, Manfred! *grin* Technically, an acronym is not an abbreviation *pronounced* as a new word, technically it IS a word that happens to be formed by letters taken from a phrase or title -- sometimes the letters don't phonetically match up, such as in "WYSIWYG" being pronounced "wuzziwig", and sometimes the letters aren't even the first letter of the words of the phrase or title (I can't think of one off hand, but I know they're there...)
Wading into the shark-infested waters
Wading into the shark-infested waters
I've been tracking the newest (and hottest) discussion: "Session Ettiquette: What to do when a guitar-player won't keep quiet" and While I agree with most of what has been said, it does make me feel a little uncomfortable about showing up to sessions. I play (you guessed it) the guitar, and have been accompanying ITM for 3 or 4 years now. I do try to play in a restrained but interesting fashion...
What is the deal with dadgad? Every melody player I have ever met wants dadgad tuning - what for? I've never been succesful in figuring that system out, but I can do a great deal with standard tuning, much more than is really neccessary for accompanying ITM.
(1)Why do you melody players want dadgad when eadgbe is good enough for the simple restrained chord work you seem to prefer?
(2) Are there any other guitarists out there who can point me in the right direction as regards dadgad tuning so that (if it's so desirable) I can make some headway with it?
Thomas
# Posted on February 15th 2002 by tccaucutt
Re: Wading into the shark-infested waters
You don't sound to me like most of the people that have been the topic of the discussion. The ones (I think) we've been discussing are those who realy don't care what they add to the session, as long as they can be heard happily banging away on their guitar, mandolin, or whatever without any regard of anyone else in the session.
I never could figure out the DADGAD thing. I'm with you.EADGBE was always good enough for me. However, I've played with some guys who do the DADGAD thing and they can get some pretty sweet music out of it. I do think DADGAD has a great sound to it, but with the right picker the standard tuning is just as neat.
I think it's just personal preference.
# Posted on February 15th 2002 by flyinfiddler
Re: Wading into the shark-infested waters
As a melody player, I don't really care what tuning a guitar is in, as long as the person playing it has some knowledge and ability to add to the music rather than detract from it. DADGAD makes for some nice "open" sounding chords behind the tunes.
To me, playing "behind" the tunes is what good accompaniment is all about--not trying to make the back-up the center of attention. Thomas, it sounds like you're sensitive to that. You'd be welcome at my session, though you might have to rotate playing time with our one other regular tastfeul guitarist.
# Posted on February 15th 2002 by Will Harmon
P.S. She plays in EADGBE and sounds terrific. It all depends on what you're used to and what sound you want to pull from the instrument.
# Posted on February 15th 2002 by Will Harmon
Re: Wading into the shark-infested waters
I've always liked people playing in standard for back ups, DADGAD just makes big washed out boring noise IMO.
# Posted on February 15th 2002 by B Rad
Re: Wading into the shark-infested waters
I don't care what tuning someone plays in, either. So long as they have good taste in their chords, who cares what they do with their tuning?
Zina
# Posted on February 15th 2002 by Zina Lee
Re: Wading into the shark-infested waters
Well said Will and Zina!
Tiny
# Posted on February 15th 2002 by flyinfiddler
Re: Wading into the shark-infested waters
Thomas, reading Brad's comment, a possible clarification comes to mind.
Most DADGAD players I've heard play a lot of open string chords, letting them ring. That works just fine if they keep the volume in line with (well below) what the melody players are doing. If the chord noise gets too loud, it tends to wash out, as Brad describes.
The EADGBE players I play with do more vamping and muting on barre chords or killing the occasional open string, leaving more space or air in the sound to fit in with the air between the melody notes. Some melody players prefer this kind of back up.
It still boils down to personal taste. Some guitarists can do it all. I've heard Donal Clancy, Daithi Sproule, and Donogh Hennessy switch from one approach to the other with skill and taste and remarkable sensitivity to the music. Choose a style you feel comfortable with, and experiment with other approaches as time and inclination allow.
# Posted on February 15th 2002 by Will Harmon
Re: Wading into the shark-infested waters
thomas, the last thing I'd want to do with my ranting is scare accompanists away from sessions completely... I can't stress enough that the griping isn't about guitars specifically as much as it is about people who don't listen and don't care if their contribution to the session hurts more than it helps. This doesn't have to be a guitar player... it could also be a piper or an accordionist or a penny whistler (never a fiddler, though ;^D)
The reason dadgad is preferred, I think, is that with just one or two fingers you can leave the third undefined, which is perhaps a bit more suited to some of the modal tunes. Also, with a few basic formulae it's possible to whip up complementary chords and the ascending / descending patterns that can do so much to enhance the tune. Last but not least, in an open tuning you establish a pipe-like drone because several strings are always left open. Not only is this very well suited to the music, but it also helps to drown out a lot of extraneous pub noise.
Most of the players I know, if they are playing in regular tuning, at least drop the low E to a D to get that fuller sound. That said, my preference is not for "regular tuning" players or "open tuning" players, but for whomever can set a rhythm, follow the pulse and play appropriate sounding chords without drowning out the melody.
Good luck, Thomas... I'll see if I can find any good educational resources online for dadgad tuning in case you'd like to sort it out a bit and then choose your preference, rather than just defaulting to the familiar tuning. (Then you can say "I prefer regular tuning" instead of "I can't figure out dadgad")
# Posted on February 15th 2002 by Kerri Brown
Re: Wading into the shark-infested waters
Hi Thomas,
There have been quite a few guitar-oriented discussions lately (including clashing opinions on the pros and cons of some of the various tunings used in ITM).
Basically every open tuning is no more than a way to get a different sound from a guitar. DADGAD somehow became the standard tuning for many guitarists playing Irish music. Actually I don
# Posted on February 15th 2002 by Joerg Froese
Re: Wading into the shark-infested waters
Thanks guys, helpful comments. Always good for us rhythm players to get a little feedback from the other side. It also helps me to arrange instrumentation on the sets I put together for my own ceili band. Yeah, they've chose a guitarist to make the decisions. Your comments help me to do a reality check, you know - see how people other than myself like to set this stuff up.
Thomas
# Posted on February 15th 2002 by tccaucutt
Re: Wading into the shark-infested waters
I'm sorry, I miss a lot of english vocabulary (as well as music vocabulary), could you help me understand all this? What does DADGAD, EADGBE and ITM mean?? I'm loosing my english, but I try to understand as much as I can; All the discussions are so interesting, and, not knowing a lot about irish music, I'm learning a lot here...
Thanks!
# Posted on February 15th 2002 by Cecama77
Re: Wading into the shark-infested waters
cecama dadgad and eadgbe are guitar tunings (one letter per string, starting with the lowest note). ITM is Irish Traditional Music. (an acronym.)
# Posted on February 15th 2002 by Kerri Brown
Re: Wading into the shark-infested waters
I'll apologize in advance, Kerri, but ITM is an abbreviation, not an acronym. An acronym is an abbreviation that is pronounced as a new word, like NASA (which is pronounced Nasa, and not N-A-S-A).
# Posted on February 15th 2002 by Bloomfield
Re: Wading into the shark-infested waters
Ya mean ya never heard of "ITM"? That long lost Irish acronym pronounced "eye 8 'em"?
# Posted on February 15th 2002 by flyinfiddler
Re: droning on
oh,give me a drone anyday
# Posted on February 15th 2002 by biggus dave
Re: Wading into the shark-infested waters
Ack! Don't you go encouraging Dirk to start using those drones again, Dave! I'm only just now curing him of wanting to use them all the time... Kidding, just kidding. Seriously, though, you can overuse drones major big time (especially if your listener is hung over). It also makes it really hard on accompanists who aren't expert, as drones can sound pretty awful with some of the big chords.
Don't you get started on definitions, either, Manfred! *grin* Technically, an acronym is not an abbreviation *pronounced* as a new word, technically it IS a word that happens to be formed by letters taken from a phrase or title -- sometimes the letters don't phonetically match up, such as in "WYSIWYG" being pronounced "wuzziwig", and sometimes the letters aren't even the first letter of the words of the phrase or title (I can't think of one off hand, but I know they're there...)
Ah, I love it when we descend into minutae....
Zina
# Posted on February 15th 2002 by Zina Lee
Re: Wading into the shark-infested waters
Well, and all this time I thought it was pronounced "ittem". Who knew it was just a bunch of letters!?
# Posted on February 15th 2002 by Kerri Brown
Re: Wading into the shark-infested waters
Thanks all for these very precice informations!!
# Posted on February 17th 2002 by Cecama77
Probl
Salut C
# Posted on July 3rd 2002 by kolaz333