In the last few days, I've commented on "The Jiggernaut", "The Curlew" and "Duncan Johnstone", and the "Recordings " section is full of "Ossian", "The Battlefield Band" and "Sileas". Is it time to rename this website "The McSession" ?
I've noticed one or two Scottish tunes as well which have been slightered altered from the way I know them and, of course, I submitted some of those recordings. I think it goes to show that tunes don't realise that they should stay in their own boundaries. You can't stop them wandering further afield. Also, there's lots of people here who love Irish music but listen to/and play other things as well. In the real world, most sessions have a mixture of music to a greater or lesser degree. Yes, you'll get "pure" Irish and Scottish sessions but these are probably the minority. Even your Scottish country dance bands and Reel and Strathspey societies have their "obligatory" Irish sets.
Finally, I don't think that this site is necessarily supposed to be Irish music alone. It's called "The Session" after all. I believe that Jeremy just referred to Irish music in his introduction as it happened to be the style he normally played in sessions. I'm sure he's no real objection to things being opened up a bit further.
The McSession ... conjures up (dreadful) images of the music being played in a plastic eaterie run by the evil emperors of fast food! (Allegedly - as Ian Hislop would be quick to add - given the tendency of said outfit to issue writs to all and sundry!) Who knows, maybe some marketing guy will read this and consider piloting the first McSession.
(Or would a McSession be a session-lite ... accessible but somehow unsatisfying, where The Kesh and Egan's are on constant cycle all night?)
We might as well call this website the "free-for-all-anything-goes-play-anything-and-everything-you-can-get-you-hands-on-session"....why not? Hey, I posted the theme from the Monty Python Flying Circus (as a joke) and didn't kicked out ; )
Lord McDonald's served in a tastless white McBap with a McStrawberry McMilkshake... it doesn't bear thinking about. Imagine trying to play over that dreadful McMuzak.
It's a tricky one. The Scots have given the Irish many a fine tune over the centuries - Lord MacDonald's is a good example. Musicians in Ireland (and Irish music circles outside Ireland) nowadays, particularly the younger generations, are constantly bringing new tunes, either newly composed or borrowed from other tradtions, into the music. Some become assimilated into the tradtion, many more fall by the wayside, or go back home. So, what is happening in the Tunes section at the session is probably a faithful representation of what happens in real sessions. The problem is, there are lots of different sessions but only one www.thesession.org.
It also strikes me that many people who live in places remote from the Irish musical tradition, either geographically or culturally, have a very different experience of sessions to those of us fortunate enough to live at the heart of it, in Ireland or some part of the Irish diaspora. At various times there have been large numbers of English, Scots, Welsh, Breton and North American tunes posted here. From my own experience, at sessions in parts of England and Wales where there are not large Irish communities, tunes such as these may be played happily alongside irish jigs and reels. Many players who are not immersed in the tradition do not see any boundaries between them.
Perhaps it is up to us to ignore the tunes that don't interest us.
Everyone in the know knows that all the best musicians and tunes come from Scotland. The Irish are descended from the Scots anyway, and it was the Scots who invented the music.
That right, Danny?
LOL -- I think Jeremy has made his intentions quite clear in the past; and since it's often quite painful to be on the receiving end of one of his rather brisk notes when he's tired of dealing with a subject over and over again, I'll bite. If a tune is played regularly in your Irish session, then post it, but make sure you post three or four "normal" tunes to every "exotic".
If you would like to read more on Jeremy's stance, do a search for something like "Welsh tunes", you'll find it soon enough. The archives are meant for music that is played regularly at your Irish session, not a conglomerate of whatever you feel like posting or just happen to like. Simple enough.
Our Benevolent Dictator will generally let things slide until he's had enough, in my experience, and your mileage may vary depending upon how patient he's currently feeling. ;)
Hmmm - some of us live in areas where there aren't any sessions - Irish or otherwise. And some of us spend time doing searches for Welsh tunes specifically because they are terrific - just not so well known as the Irish (which we also like of course or we wouldn't be visiting this site too!)
Isn't there a link in the links part of the The Session to the Welsh music site that was started up from this site? I thought that was pretty terrific. I may mosey over there momentarily to see how they're going.
It is me who submitted Sileas' first album and the best album of Ossian and requested Duncan Johnstone. But also I've been submitting some important recordings of traditional Irish music, including old and new, and sometimes pick up very local tunes played in Leeds and post them here. So, I believe I'm balancing both traditions on this site.
Not sure if you believe me, but one of the most fashionable tunes being played here in Leeds at the moment is Cameron Highlander. I feel the musicians in this city are very proud of being Irish and prefer playing very old-fashioned stuff, but it seems they just play "good" tunes and don't care where they come from. I think it's the same with most of the people on this site, who mainly play Irish music. (I know the Sound of Sleat is Jeremy's tunebook!)
H.
P.S. I posted very obscure Scottish tunes such as "Domnall Dubh" and "The Road East." I didn't expect so many people would put them in their tunebooks.
Yes, the "Scots" did come from Ireland way back then and more recently too for that matter. However, these weren't the only people who were living in the country that we now call Scotland. I'd better not elaborate any more without some futher research.
I must comment on Dave's remark about people who are "remote from the Irish music tradition, either geographically or culturally". Without wishing to offend anyone, I have noticed that players are likely to be even more "precious" about what gets played in their session the further away from Ireland they are. The times I've been to Ireland, I've experienced quite a variety of sessions where tunes from Scotland and elsewhere were quite acceptable. On one occasion, a visiting English singer was encouraged to do his bit and was warmly received. There's always been a history of Irish bands playing Scottish and other tunes/songs, in any case from the Dubliners(Mormon braes, Drunken piper and more), Planxty(Johnny Cope), Bothy Band(Hector the hero, Laird of Drumblair), Altan( inumerable examples) right to our beloved Lunasa today(Laura Lynn Cunningham etc).
"Wales" - I've read - is an old Anglo Saxon word meaning something like "stranger or foreigner";
"Gall" is a 'foreign Gael' - I think you're right, Conan, Gaelic and Gallic are closely related. Don't think the Romans would have been called "Gall" - might have been something a lot less complimentary.
To muddy the waters a bit more, some tunes are claimed as their own by the Irish, the Scots and the English.
I've heard some lovely Welsh traditional music lately, are there sessions for it in London?
What about the Gauls?
Tommy Cooper joke:'Doc, I can't stop singing the green green grass of home.' 'That sounds like Tom Jones syndrome. ' 'Is it common?' 'It's not unusual.'
Gauls, Gaels, Gallicians are all derived from the same root. As are the Galatians, as in St. Paul's (?) Letter to The Galatians, who were a tribe of celts who settled in Asia Minor,or Anatolia, now modern day Turkey. I wonder what their music sounds like?
But Jim, the concensus here is right. We were originally from Ireland, not the other way around...unless of course you're referring to the followers of the Revt. Dr.Ian Paisley, that great man of Peace and God. I don't know what music those chaps play, apart from stirring military marches, accompanied by a giant Bodhran.
Despite the name, the Scoti didn't dominate all of Scotland, mainly the West Highlands. The Picts, whoever they really were, didn't disappear, they stayed strong in the northeast and are as much a part of the modern Scottish genepool as the Scoti. (and the Norse, and the others).
So say I the Aussie incomer.
Anyway on the original point, I was attracted to this website by the name "Session". There have been plenty of sessions in Scotland ever since I can remember (lived here since 1979 on and off) and to my knowledge it's been associated with traditional music with no particular emphasis on Irish. Now it may have been the original intention of this website to concentrate on (can I just use it once?) "ITM" - but the newcomer who was used to playing sessions in Scotland or Shetland or somewhere else would not realise it until he/she was deep into the discussions over a long period of time and spending way too much time on the internet. A session's just a session, even if you call it a seisun.
Oh, forgot to put signs in my post - I *was* only joking about the Irish being descended from the Scots....but I still think the Scots are better fiddle players though, although there seem to be more Irish players around ...oh what the hell does it matter anyway what I think...it's all music for all to enjoy whoever and wherever
The McSession?
The McSession?
In the last few days, I've commented on "The Jiggernaut", "The Curlew" and "Duncan Johnstone", and the "Recordings " section is full of "Ossian", "The Battlefield Band" and "Sileas". Is it time to rename this website "The McSession" ?
# Posted on April 21st 2004 by Kenny
Re: The McSession?
I've noticed one or two Scottish tunes as well which have been slightered altered from the way I know them and, of course, I submitted some of those recordings. I think it goes to show that tunes don't realise that they should stay in their own boundaries. You can't stop them wandering further afield.
Also, there's lots of people here who love Irish music but listen to/and play other things as well. In the real world, most sessions have a mixture of music to a greater or lesser degree. Yes, you'll get "pure" Irish and Scottish sessions but these are probably the minority. Even your Scottish country dance bands and Reel and Strathspey societies have their "obligatory" Irish sets.
Finally, I don't think that this site is necessarily supposed to be Irish music alone. It's called "The Session" after all. I believe that Jeremy just referred to Irish music in his introduction as it happened to be the style he normally played in sessions. I'm sure he's no real objection to things being opened up a bit further.
John
# Posted on April 21st 2004 by Johnny Jay
Re: The McSession?
And don't mention Tanya, anyone. I know she wouldn't approve.
# Posted on April 21st 2004 by Johnny Jay
Re: The McSession?
The McSession ... conjures up (dreadful) images of the music being played in a plastic eaterie run by the evil emperors of fast food! (Allegedly - as Ian Hislop would be quick to add - given the tendency of said outfit to issue writs to all and sundry!) Who knows, maybe some marketing guy will read this and consider piloting the first McSession.
(Or would a McSession be a session-lite ... accessible but somehow unsatisfying, where The Kesh and Egan's are on constant cycle all night?)
# Posted on April 21st 2004 by Aidan Crossey
Re: The McSession?
Can I get my polkas biggie-sized?
# Posted on April 21st 2004 by Will Harmon
Re: The McSession?
We might as well call this website the "free-for-all-anything-goes-play-anything-and-everything-you-can-get-you-hands-on-session"....why not? Hey, I posted the theme from the Monty Python Flying Circus (as a joke) and didn't kicked out ; )
# Posted on April 21st 2004 by JMH
Re: The McSession?
Joyce you sound so like Bridie
# Posted on April 21st 2004 by Dr. Dow
Re: The McSession?
Hey, I take that as a compliment. I do look forward to meeting you and Bridie someday!
# Posted on April 21st 2004 by JMH
Re: The McSession?
Lord McDonald's served in a tastless white McBap with a McStrawberry McMilkshake... it doesn't bear thinking about. Imagine trying to play over that dreadful McMuzak.
It's a tricky one. The Scots have given the Irish many a fine tune over the centuries - Lord MacDonald's is a good example. Musicians in Ireland (and Irish music circles outside Ireland) nowadays, particularly the younger generations, are constantly bringing new tunes, either newly composed or borrowed from other tradtions, into the music. Some become assimilated into the tradtion, many more fall by the wayside, or go back home. So, what is happening in the Tunes section at the session is probably a faithful representation of what happens in real sessions. The problem is, there are lots of different sessions but only one www.thesession.org.
It also strikes me that many people who live in places remote from the Irish musical tradition, either geographically or culturally, have a very different experience of sessions to those of us fortunate enough to live at the heart of it, in Ireland or some part of the Irish diaspora. At various times there have been large numbers of English, Scots, Welsh, Breton and North American tunes posted here. From my own experience, at sessions in parts of England and Wales where there are not large Irish communities, tunes such as these may be played happily alongside irish jigs and reels. Many players who are not immersed in the tradition do not see any boundaries between them.
Perhaps it is up to us to ignore the tunes that don't interest us.
# Posted on April 21st 2004 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: The McSession?
I'm steadfastly ignoring them
Did I mention I got rid of my bluegrass banjo years ago and used the cash for pipes??
Heh, heh, heh....
# Posted on April 21st 2004 by Bill Reeder
Re: The McSession?
Everyone in the know knows that all the best musicians and tunes come from Scotland. The Irish are descended from the Scots anyway, and it was the Scots who invented the music.
That right, Danny?
Jim
Eat in, or take away?
# Posted on April 21st 2004 by Worldfiddler
Re: The McSession?
LOL -- I think Jeremy has made his intentions quite clear in the past; and since it's often quite painful to be on the receiving end of one of his rather brisk notes when he's tired of dealing with a subject over and over again, I'll bite. If a tune is played regularly in your Irish session, then post it, but make sure you post three or four "normal" tunes to every "exotic".
If you would like to read more on Jeremy's stance, do a search for something like "Welsh tunes", you'll find it soon enough. The archives are meant for music that is played regularly at your Irish session, not a conglomerate of whatever you feel like posting or just happen to like. Simple enough.
Our Benevolent Dictator will generally let things slide until he's had enough, in my experience, and your mileage may vary depending upon how patient he's currently feeling. ;)
# Posted on April 21st 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: The McSession?
Hmmm - some of us live in areas where there aren't any sessions - Irish or otherwise. And some of us spend time doing searches for Welsh tunes specifically because they are terrific - just not so well known as the Irish (which we also like of course or we wouldn't be visiting this site too!)
# Posted on April 21st 2004 by cariad
Re: The McSession?
Isn't there a link in the links part of the The Session to the Welsh music site that was started up from this site? I thought that was pretty terrific. I may mosey over there momentarily to see how they're going.
# Posted on April 21st 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: The McSession?
JMH, the theme from Monty Python's Flying Circus is the Liberty Bell March by John Phillip Sousa.
# Posted on April 21st 2004 by punkapuddin
Re: The McSession?
It is me who submitted Sileas' first album and the best album of Ossian and requested Duncan Johnstone. But also I've been submitting some important recordings of traditional Irish music, including old and new, and sometimes pick up very local tunes played in Leeds and post them here. So, I believe I'm balancing both traditions on this site.
Not sure if you believe me, but one of the most fashionable tunes being played here in Leeds at the moment is Cameron Highlander. I feel the musicians in this city are very proud of being Irish and prefer playing very old-fashioned stuff, but it seems they just play "good" tunes and don't care where they come from. I think it's the same with most of the people on this site, who mainly play Irish music. (I know the Sound of Sleat is Jeremy's tunebook!)
H.
P.S. I posted very obscure Scottish tunes such as "Domnall Dubh" and "The Road East." I didn't expect so many people would put them in their tunebooks.
# Posted on April 21st 2004 by slainte
Re: The McSession?
Is it really a full six weeks since we discussed all this? It seems so much less - yet here it is again.
I'm already looking forward to the next academic pedantics debate. How soon can we start that?
Dave
(mad, bored and dangerours to gnaw)
# Posted on April 21st 2004 by showaddydadito
Re: The McSession?
Jim D, weren't the Scotti tribe, after whom Scotland is called, originally from Ireland? So my mum keeps telling me, as her maiden name is Scott.
Con
# Posted on April 21st 2004 by Conán McDonnell
Re: The McSession?
Yes, the "Scots" did come from Ireland way back then and more recently too for that matter. However, these weren't the only people who were living in the country that we now call Scotland. I'd better not elaborate any more without some futher research.
I must comment on Dave's remark about people who are "remote from the Irish music tradition, either geographically or culturally". Without wishing to offend anyone, I have noticed that players are likely to be even more "precious" about what gets played in their session the further away from Ireland they are. The times I've been to Ireland, I've experienced quite a variety of sessions where tunes from Scotland and elsewhere were quite acceptable. On one occasion, a visiting English singer was encouraged to do his bit and was warmly received. There's always been a history of Irish bands playing Scottish and other tunes/songs, in any case from the Dubliners(Mormon braes, Drunken piper and more), Planxty(Johnny Cope), Bothy Band(Hector the hero, Laird of Drumblair), Altan( inumerable examples) right to our beloved Lunasa today(Laura Lynn Cunningham etc).
John
# Posted on April 21st 2004 by Johnny Jay
Re: The McSession?
JohnJ, yup I know about there being people in Scotland before the, er, Scots :
# Posted on April 21st 2004 by Conán McDonnell
Re: The McSession?
The Picts didn
# Posted on April 21st 2004 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: The McSession?
I think we should only post tunes played at the high level sessions in Boston and New York.
# Posted on April 21st 2004 by Pied Piper
Re: The McSession?
Er, exactly my point! ;
# Posted on April 21st 2004 by Conán McDonnell
Re: The McSession?
...or tunes that have been sanctioned by Desi, John-Joe and Mike?
Get a life PP
# Posted on April 21st 2004 by Conán McDonnell
Re: The McSession?
"Wales" - I've read - is an old Anglo Saxon word meaning something like "stranger or foreigner";
"Gall" is a 'foreign Gael' - I think you're right, Conan, Gaelic and Gallic are closely related. Don't think the Romans would have been called "Gall" - might have been something a lot less complimentary.
# Posted on April 21st 2004 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: The McSession?
To muddy the waters a bit more, some tunes are claimed as their own by the Irish, the Scots and the English.
I've heard some lovely Welsh traditional music lately, are there sessions for it in London?
What about the Gauls?
# Posted on April 22nd 2004 by Cath
Re: The McSession?
And please can we have some Gaul fries with that?
# Posted on April 22nd 2004 by Cath
Re: The McSession?
"Have a nice day" of course was a Welsh song. A big hit for the Stereophonics.
# Posted on April 22nd 2004 by Johnny Jay
Re: The McSession?
As was Dai-lilah, for Tom Jones.
Tommy Cooper joke:'Doc, I can't stop singing the green green grass of home.' 'That sounds like Tom Jones syndrome. ' 'Is it common?' 'It's not unusual.'
Old ones are the best
# Posted on April 22nd 2004 by Conán McDonnell
Re: The McSession?
"Why, why, why the bodhran? Why, why, why, the bodhran? It kept on beating. I felt the knife in my hand and it beat no more."
# Posted on April 22nd 2004 by Johnny Jay
Re: The McSession?
LOL ;)
# Posted on April 22nd 2004 by Conán McDonnell
Re: The McSession?
Gauls, Gaels, Gallicians are all derived from the same root. As are the Galatians, as in St. Paul's (?) Letter to The Galatians, who were a tribe of celts who settled in Asia Minor,or Anatolia, now modern day Turkey. I wonder what their music sounds like?
But Jim, the concensus here is right. We were originally from Ireland, not the other way around...unless of course you're referring to the followers of the Revt. Dr.Ian Paisley, that great man of Peace and God. I don't know what music those chaps play, apart from stirring military marches, accompanied by a giant Bodhran.
# Posted on April 22nd 2004 by Rudall the time
Re: The McSession?
Despite the name, the Scoti didn't dominate all of Scotland, mainly the West Highlands. The Picts, whoever they really were, didn't disappear, they stayed strong in the northeast and are as much a part of the modern Scottish genepool as the Scoti. (and the Norse, and the others).
So say I the Aussie incomer.
Anyway on the original point, I was attracted to this website by the name "Session". There have been plenty of sessions in Scotland ever since I can remember (lived here since 1979 on and off) and to my knowledge it's been associated with traditional music with no particular emphasis on Irish. Now it may have been the original intention of this website to concentrate on (can I just use it once?) "ITM" - but the newcomer who was used to playing sessions in Scotland or Shetland or somewhere else would not realise it until he/she was deep into the discussions over a long period of time and spending way too much time on the internet. A session's just a session, even if you call it a seisun.
# Posted on April 22nd 2004 by Bren
Re: The McSession?
Bren now we know you're really Mel Gibson under an assumed name.
C
# Posted on April 22nd 2004 by Conán McDonnell
Re: The McSession?
If he's going to drop his pants, I'll stick around.
# Posted on April 22nd 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: The McSession?
Yeah, that Ian Paisley, he's got some gall !
# Posted on April 22nd 2004 by Cath
Re: The McSession?
By the way, last night: Celts 1 - Picts 2 with Aussie David Zdrilic scoring the last minute winner!
Now that you're really baffled, can I just say that this is a briliant site whatever its intentions and thanks to Jeremy for the work he's put in.
# Posted on April 22nd 2004 by Bren
Re: The McSession?
Oh, forgot to put
signs in my post - I *was* only joking about the Irish being descended from the Scots....but I still think the Scots are better fiddle players though, although there seem to be more Irish players around ...oh what the hell does it matter anyway what I think...it's all music for all to enjoy whoever and wherever 
Jim
# Posted on April 22nd 2004 by Worldfiddler
Re: The McSession?
Mel Gibson - didn't he just direct a movie using an old and obscure language?
The Passion of the Craic
# Posted on April 22nd 2004 by Cath