Hi. I'm new to this group. I ran across the site recently while looking for new tunes on the web. I need some guidance on what the group wants and accepts for listing recordings. I have a rather meager Irish CD collection, but most are not listed here. Should I submit only those that are purely and strictly Irish and traditional? My favorite CD has lots of songs listed as "trad. Irish", but also quite a few "trad. Scottish" and "trad. Quebecois", and a couple original compositions. (This is NOT "new-agey" Celtic, it's just broader than strictly Irish.)
I get the impression we're strictly Irish Trad here (with a few exceptions), but if you are going to post a recording, only the tunes with posted corresponding scores will link to anything, so you're safe posting a CD with some unrelated material. Also, some of the musicians here might also be interested in more than one style of playing. (Don't tell them I said that!) I'm not the boss, though. I'm sure this post will get BUCKETS of replies. I expect you to hear from Zina, Glauber, and Will soon enough, if they're not madly posting at this very moment... ;^D
Well, this is Jeremy's site, and he says the emphasis is on the dance music of Ireland, but most of us seem open to just about anything remotely Irish, Scottish, Cape Bretonish, etc. If you get too far off base, Jeremy will probably simply remove the post and send you a polite but firm email reminder of the focus here. No harm, no foul. Recordings that include songs and slow airs are fine too--we'd be hard pressed to find many cds that are exclusively dance tunes, or even exclusively Irish (Kevin Burke recorded Jerusalem Ridge, we've got Hayes and Ivers doing Pachabel's Canon, etc). And slow airs that fit the time signatures of jigs, reels, hornpipes, etc do get posted to the tune section now and then without complaint.
Fire away!
Kerri, in your role as keeper of the gate for inclusivity at the session, I hope you don't pigeon hole too many of us as purists and absolutists for tradition and therefore "limits." Yup, some of us prefer a little structure over anarchy (*wink* ), but that's borne of a desire to be productively inclusive, not exclusive. I appreciate your reminders to be sensitive to tune composers and others who can expand our horizons, and nine times out of ten I agree with everything you post. But I think you may be reading more angst into some of the discussions than is actually there, or maybe attributing one person's attitude to a wider population than holds true. It's also hard to judge someone's complaint when we haven't seen the problems they may be coping with at their local session--not all of us are lucky enough to play with a crowd of happy, talented, inviting Clare style players. There are annoying louts out there that can ruin an otherwise fun evening, and I for one like hearing about other people's tribulations with them.
But thanks for encouraging Sarah to post her recordings....
back to the point, I'd suggest stuff by John McKenna, Paddy Carty, Eddie Cahill or Jack Coen to name a few, just about everything I've ever heard them do is excellent older styled stuff. I always thought the old stuff is the way to go. While all the new players are great or greater than the older players the old players music is where the newer players learned most of their music from.
Now back to meandering from the point. Thanks, Will, I find your posts agreeable as well. And I might pass myself off as more tolerant than I actually am, to tell the truth. Bad habit of playing devil's advocate, or coming as the representative of a mythical world where everyone has enough common sense to know what does or doesn't fit.
I once scared a beginner off myself - totally unintentionally. I just asked him to stop playing or quiet down if he didn't know a tune so the other players could hear each other... He was absolutely mortified, and thought I hated him personally, and never came back. So I'm not really representing inclusivity. I'm more about open-ness. I hate the idea of shady dealings - someone watching someone else make an ass of himself or herself and saying nothing, then going off and snickering about it later, or complaining about it here. I know no-one is full of (what was the word, will?) "angst" about it. I'm as irritated as the next person when someone comes in with absolutely no idea what they're doing and hi-jacks the session for a half an hour of flat-pipe aires, but I'll listen to anything for five minutes and clap.
There's the rub--that awkward moment when someone *needs* to be told they've got spinach in their teeth (or their flute is a half-tone high), but you know that telling them will be humiliating. Sarah did us all a big favor in this thread by up front asking for feedback. Then it's easy to make suggestions without worrying so much about hurting her feelings and running her off.
I loathe myself when I offer well-intended advice ("you might want to bring that A string up a hair" or "that last tune was a jig, not a hornpipe") and the person never comes to the session again. Some people, it seems, cannot accept even the most constructive criticism, and it is not always possible to offer it in private rather than publicly. In my experience, it always helps when a person openly asks for feedback, as long as the feedback then is not cruel or wildly inaccurate.
Kerri, I like your distinction between being open rather than simply inclusive. That's more what I was trying to get at too.
Right, Will... I think it's pretty important. I don't mind giving a bit of advice or getting it myself. When I scared that guy off, I honestly had the best intentions. He mentioned to me that he couldn't hear the players because the pub was so noisy that night, and was having trouble chording along. I very tactfully said "I know, it's noisy tonight. Sometimes when I'm having trouble following the players it helps me to just stop and listen until I have a good enough grasp to play without muddying it up even more."
He of course saw through all my carefully constructed tact immediately and assumed it was a personal affront. I don't think helpful advice is ever intended to be hurtful, and I would hope that it's rarely taken the way this guy chose to take it. In order to learn this stuff one must have a thick skin. How can anyone learn anything if they can't publicly aknowlege they are not yet perfect by warmly accepting some well-meaning advice?
Yes, it's tough when you know you're crap next to the superstars you're playing with and someone leans over and reminds you by pointing out your instrument is out of tune, or that you're playing the wrong reel. For me, though, after hearing enough people say "You should slow down," guess what happened? I slowed down. It's a whole new world. Now I'm ready for the next embarassing revelation.
I think pretty much every player who has played for longer than a year or two has had the experience of riskily giving someone advice or whatever and having it taken very wrong or badly. And in real life, of course, it's nothing the player can do something about when the advice-ee takes it personally or as criticism rather than someone trying to help, but it's hard to remember that when you feel terrible for hurting someone else's feelings with something that needed to be said.
Of course, one of the reasons that I love interacting with other people is that I believe I can learn so much from people with differing viewpoints from my own. I do try to weigh everything that's given to me with that grain of salt...
As regards the point of the thread, I'd say that it's only outside of Ireland that sessions tend to be very firm about Irish-only tunes. I've heard plenty of mazurkas, highlands, schottisches, whatever, in sessions in Ireland (although admittedly my experience there is not vast) and no one ever seemed to even really notice it.
My friend from Belfast was saying something along the same lines, Zina. Quote "well, I went to a few sessions but those were, like... not this kind of thing at all...We played... like... Bob Marley and stuff."
Guidance requested
Guidance requested
Hi. I'm new to this group. I ran across the site recently while looking for new tunes on the web. I need some guidance on what the group wants and accepts for listing recordings. I have a rather meager Irish CD collection, but most are not listed here. Should I submit only those that are purely and strictly Irish and traditional? My favorite CD has lots of songs listed as "trad. Irish", but also quite a few "trad. Scottish" and "trad. Quebecois", and a couple original compositions. (This is NOT "new-agey" Celtic, it's just broader than strictly Irish.)
Thanks!
Sarah
# Posted on February 8th 2002 by x
Re: Guidance requested
I get the impression we're strictly Irish Trad here (with a few exceptions), but if you are going to post a recording, only the tunes with posted corresponding scores will link to anything, so you're safe posting a CD with some unrelated material. Also, some of the musicians here might also be interested in more than one style of playing. (Don't tell them I said that!) I'm not the boss, though. I'm sure this post will get BUCKETS of replies. I expect you to hear from Zina, Glauber, and Will soon enough, if they're not madly posting at this very moment... ;^D
# Posted on February 8th 2002 by Kerri Brown
Re: Guidance requested
As far as i know, here's only 2 rules in this site:
(1) Be nice.
(2) No slow airs.
(3) No Celine Dion.
Oops! That's 3 rules!
I'm with the fiddler.
g
# Posted on February 8th 2002 by glauber
Re: Guidance requested
Well, this is Jeremy's site, and he says the emphasis is on the dance music of Ireland, but most of us seem open to just about anything remotely Irish, Scottish, Cape Bretonish, etc. If you get too far off base, Jeremy will probably simply remove the post and send you a polite but firm email reminder of the focus here. No harm, no foul. Recordings that include songs and slow airs are fine too--we'd be hard pressed to find many cds that are exclusively dance tunes, or even exclusively Irish (Kevin Burke recorded Jerusalem Ridge, we've got Hayes and Ivers doing Pachabel's Canon, etc). And slow airs that fit the time signatures of jigs, reels, hornpipes, etc do get posted to the tune section now and then without complaint.
Fire away!
Kerri, in your role as keeper of the gate for inclusivity at the session, I hope you don't pigeon hole too many of us as purists and absolutists for tradition and therefore "limits." Yup, some of us prefer a little structure over anarchy (*wink* ), but that's borne of a desire to be productively inclusive, not exclusive. I appreciate your reminders to be sensitive to tune composers and others who can expand our horizons, and nine times out of ten I agree with everything you post. But I think you may be reading more angst into some of the discussions than is actually there, or maybe attributing one person's attitude to a wider population than holds true. It's also hard to judge someone's complaint when we haven't seen the problems they may be coping with at their local session--not all of us are lucky enough to play with a crowd of happy, talented, inviting Clare style players. There are annoying louts out there that can ruin an otherwise fun evening, and I for one like hearing about other people's tribulations with them.
But thanks for encouraging Sarah to post her recordings....
Will (removing preacher's collar
# Posted on February 8th 2002 by Will CPT
Re: Guidance requested
back to the point, I'd suggest stuff by John McKenna, Paddy Carty, Eddie Cahill or Jack Coen to name a few, just about everything I've ever heard them do is excellent older styled stuff. I always thought the old stuff is the way to go. While all the new players are great or greater than the older players the old players music is where the newer players learned most of their music from.
# Posted on February 8th 2002 by Mad Baloney
Re: Guidance requested
Now back to meandering from the point. Thanks, Will, I find your posts agreeable as well. And I might pass myself off as more tolerant than I actually am, to tell the truth. Bad habit of playing devil's advocate, or coming as the representative of a mythical world where everyone has enough common sense to know what does or doesn't fit.
I once scared a beginner off myself - totally unintentionally. I just asked him to stop playing or quiet down if he didn't know a tune so the other players could hear each other... He was absolutely mortified, and thought I hated him personally, and never came back. So I'm not really representing inclusivity. I'm more about open-ness. I hate the idea of shady dealings - someone watching someone else make an ass of himself or herself and saying nothing, then going off and snickering about it later, or complaining about it here. I know no-one is full of (what was the word, will?) "angst" about it. I'm as irritated as the next person when someone comes in with absolutely no idea what they're doing and hi-jacks the session for a half an hour of flat-pipe aires, but I'll listen to anything for five minutes and clap.
# Posted on February 9th 2002 by Kerri Brown
Re: Guidance requested
There's the rub--that awkward moment when someone *needs* to be told they've got spinach in their teeth (or their flute is a half-tone high), but you know that telling them will be humiliating. Sarah did us all a big favor in this thread by up front asking for feedback. Then it's easy to make suggestions without worrying so much about hurting her feelings and running her off.
I loathe myself when I offer well-intended advice ("you might want to bring that A string up a hair" or "that last tune was a jig, not a hornpipe") and the person never comes to the session again. Some people, it seems, cannot accept even the most constructive criticism, and it is not always possible to offer it in private rather than publicly. In my experience, it always helps when a person openly asks for feedback, as long as the feedback then is not cruel or wildly inaccurate.
Kerri, I like your distinction between being open rather than simply inclusive. That's more what I was trying to get at too.
# Posted on February 9th 2002 by Will CPT
Re: Guidance requested
Right, Will... I think it's pretty important. I don't mind giving a bit of advice or getting it myself. When I scared that guy off, I honestly had the best intentions. He mentioned to me that he couldn't hear the players because the pub was so noisy that night, and was having trouble chording along. I very tactfully said "I know, it's noisy tonight. Sometimes when I'm having trouble following the players it helps me to just stop and listen until I have a good enough grasp to play without muddying it up even more."
He of course saw through all my carefully constructed tact immediately and assumed it was a personal affront. I don't think helpful advice is ever intended to be hurtful, and I would hope that it's rarely taken the way this guy chose to take it. In order to learn this stuff one must have a thick skin. How can anyone learn anything if they can't publicly aknowlege they are not yet perfect by warmly accepting some well-meaning advice?
Yes, it's tough when you know you're crap next to the superstars you're playing with and someone leans over and reminds you by pointing out your instrument is out of tune, or that you're playing the wrong reel. For me, though, after hearing enough people say "You should slow down," guess what happened? I slowed down. It's a whole new world. Now I'm ready for the next embarassing revelation.
# Posted on February 9th 2002 by Kerri Brown
Re: Guidance requested
I think pretty much every player who has played for longer than a year or two has had the experience of riskily giving someone advice or whatever and having it taken very wrong or badly. And in real life, of course, it's nothing the player can do something about when the advice-ee takes it personally or as criticism rather than someone trying to help, but it's hard to remember that when you feel terrible for hurting someone else's feelings with something that needed to be said.
Of course, one of the reasons that I love interacting with other people is that I believe I can learn so much from people with differing viewpoints from my own. I do try to weigh everything that's given to me with that grain of salt...
As regards the point of the thread, I'd say that it's only outside of Ireland that sessions tend to be very firm about Irish-only tunes. I've heard plenty of mazurkas, highlands, schottisches, whatever, in sessions in Ireland (although admittedly my experience there is not vast) and no one ever seemed to even really notice it.
Zina
# Posted on February 9th 2002 by Zina Lee
Re: Guidance requested
My friend from Belfast was saying something along the same lines, Zina. Quote "well, I went to a few sessions but those were, like... not this kind of thing at all...We played... like... Bob Marley and stuff."
# Posted on February 9th 2002 by Kerri Brown