is there any feedback on the new no smoking law yet? When I was in the West in January I was told by a pub owner that, "We in the west have a long history of defying the rules set in the Pale."
I won't mention names, but he was admant at the time. I wonder if the smoke police have sniffer dogs yet.
(Yes, I know all the arguments against second hand smoke and am a non-smoker. In fact I welcome the idea of a no smoking session, but we are talking vast cultural change here and I am interested in how and if, it will be accomplished. I was once told in the Army to niver give an order you don't think will be carried out.)
This thread is an inquiry on how the law is being implemented and how the Irish are responding to it, not on whether or not the law is fair, stupid, or even germaine (although I admit that I did mention something about laws that have no chance of being obeyed.) In the town I live in (in WI) most public places are smokeless and it was "no big deal" (sort of) after all the arguing was finally over.
I hope it is not boring to watch a culture change, possibly for a healthier life. In any case, and no matter what side of the question you are on, it will be interesting to see what happens.
I wasn't saying the law is bad, I think the topic is. This topic pops up all too often on all the message boards. There was a time when it was mildly interesting but that time has long past. Now it's just another thread where people are going to bitch, moan & whine about their views on smoking. The topic isn't horribly informative & it's definitely not going to change anyone's mind. It just pits people against each other & raises fur. I'm just the eejit who sticks his neck out for the rest who are bored to tears with this redundancy.
You are correct about my premature posting not allowing for comments. For some reason I thought the ban went into effect on the 25th.
Nonetheless, I would like to see how the transition occurs right from the beginning. While this is not Brown Vs. the Board of Education, it is a radical shift in culture (at least in the West), one which is among the first of many with the Eurofication of Ireland (although this particular change is much more American) and it should tell us a lot about how the Irish will respond to more weighty issues such as civil rights. It will also affect the traditional music culture, I think.
I suspect that there will be a gradual acceptance of the ban but it might go the route of prohibition in the US, who knows. That's what is so interesting, and why I'd like to hear the views of observers and actors in this little drama.
So far, by the way, there has been no "bitching" about various views on smoking, just discussion on whether the topic is of value. I happen to think it is.
The amount of smokers in Ireland is horrendous, although tabacco is very expensive. So, there's a typical Irish solution, extreme with no way in between. When the plastic bags had covered most parts of the roadsides (very romantic while walking or cycling) and their number had almost exploded, they decided to charge for them, which is good. But the price is incredibly high, for a simple cheap bag they charge 20 cents, cotton bags now cost about four Euro, up to six. Why so extreme? Although I must say, it was an immediate success.
And now again, instead of finding a way for both sides or at least asking the people for their own solutions (smoking free areas, smoking free bar etc) a complete ban. After having been 11 times in Ireland now I wonder, how they manage this new law. Did you hear about the idea with "smoking busses" or a bus transfer to the North (arranged by the NI- pubowners)?
Where I live (in FL), a smoking ban in workplaces was passed. I'm incredibly glad that it passed, as I have an allergy to cigarette smoke. At first some businesses refused to obey the law, but, at this point, no one is making a big fuss. However, it was not such a major cultural change here. I'm thinking that it will take much longer for the ban in Ireland to be accepted, and that many places will not comply for quite some time.
Shannaquay steve is right its a national charge for plastic carrier bags is 15c.
There will be 450 tobacco inspectors 100 of which will be based in Dublin checking the pubs. A national snitch line so pubs that do not comply can be informed on. Any smoker caught will be fined €3000 and the publican fined the same with the possibilty of losing his licence. I think it should work. I might even start eating in pubs now and certainly go out more than the current once a week.
You know, a lot of fuss is being made about this issue but all the fuss is being made by smokers, you must remember these people are DRUG ADDICTS who don't care a hoot about the fact they are helping to KILL other people. For them their addiction comes first. They can go outside for a fix so they are not being stopped altogether. People don't make a fuss about going to the toilet so why all the fuss about this.
I lived through the change in california ( specifically, cold, rainy, foggy, northern calif). It took a few years for businesses to adjust financially, and a few more years for people to stop grumbling about it, but now its great. There are business to go to specifically to smoke ( various tobacco houses), but most have created nice places for their customer's to smoke outside: benches, ashtray containers, plants for ambiance. People will adjust eventually.
Jenaceae is right. There is a tobacco store (So California) that has a "smoking area" in the back (members only, membership fee is $500 to $1000 a year, large first time entry fee) and its the leather covered, arm chair with martini bar, club motif- how they got that license for serving alchol, I'll never know. They can puff away on cigars, etc to their lungs dis-content.
I have a funny view here because i'm totally anti smoking......i think it stinks, kills millions of people and props up multinationals..so i don't go into pubs very much...which incidentally means i don't get to sessions as often as i'd like.....
i do however belive in peoples right to kill themselves slowly however they want to so long as it doesn't affect me....hence i approve of a smoking ban in the workplace.....but pubs are places of recreation......if you don't like what poeple are doing in them then don't go in them........if there is a genuine need for smokefree pubs then the market will sort that out.....people will open them up and they will be successful and the ballance will find itself......
last night i went to a friends session in a quiet country pub with hardly any smoke and it was a treat............i tend to play music more with friends in houses and outside-whether permitting- and thats no bad thing................
as to the person who thought this whole disscussion was boring i'd say the same thing....if your not intersested in what somebody is writing about simply don't read it.......there is quite enough other stuff on the web to keep you interest for some time i should think..............
Paulflute........nice elipses......good thoughts.......but flaw in the logic.....
Y'see, pubs *are* workplaces, too: Pubs employ bartenders, waitstaff, kitchen personnel, and sometimes...musicians! I share Paul's view that if people really want to smoke, let 'em; just have the decency not to risk the health of especially those who spend their 8-10 hour workday in the tight quarters of a pub or whatever.
It's amazing to see what's happened in New York since the smoking ban. The pubs are as crowded, if not more so, than ever. The sessiuns are still cracking. What's most amazing to me is how little even the smokers seem to complain about it. They simply walk outside and blaze up. Sure, you've got to run the gauntlet to get into the pub, but it's a momentary inconvenience, as opposed to the stinkbath it used to be if you played a three hour session.
Incidentally, I look at the time and I see that we're now several hours into the Irish smoke ban. Any observations from anyone at a pub at midnight last night?
I was in one of the many pubs in ireland at midnigght last night . At around midnight (ish) the bar man came out with the no smoking signs( as gaeilge i might add) and the whole place fell silent! as soon as they had been put up the whole pub started clapping and every1 went back 2 their drinks, smokers and all the ban doesnt really come in untill 2day and so far their has been a dramatic change its helarus 2 see every1 standing outside 2 have a smoke! but their just my observations!
I'll be interested in a few days or weeks to see how the no-smoking ban is working. Yeah we've discussed our points of view about smoking in pubs. But maybe this thread was posted prematurely. Let's just see what happens and then discuss it.
A friend in Ireland just returned my email saying it looks like it's going to work. He went to the pub for lunch today and couldn't smoke. But last night he did have his last 2 pints of "nicotine-tainted Heineken"...and this guy loves to smoke!
I was in a local GAA club tonite in Dublin.A couple of us gather on a monday nite and play a few tunes.This club is full of members on a monday.At the start of the night all smokers were making there way outside to light up no problem.But come the end of the night the jacks( toilets ) was full of smokers puffing away. One of the lads in our company got a bit pissed off.As he is off the smokes since the ban. Me being a non smoker I welcome the ban.But I think there may be trouble ahead. Come the weekend I say there will be a bit of agro.Watch this space.
Thanks for Mikeys start up of this post as I will be traveling to Ireland this summer for a week at Willie Clancy...and you all know the nature of the pub scene there. After living in smoke free Colorado and California, it's an environmental shock to enter smokey places.
And as an aside, Mad Baloney, some people (me) didn't catch the earlier thread on this topic, and I rarely have time to catch more than one or two of the topics on this site, and this one caught my eye. So if it bores you...stay away...there are lots of other messages to read and your comments were the only tedious addition to this thread IMHO.
No, I don't like second-hand smoke
Yes, I'm willing to put with it
No, I shouldn't have to
Yes, life's a bitch... but deal with it, don't whinge about it.
There are plenty of other recreational activities that we consider perfectly acceptable, despite numerous medical studies proving that they also damage our health (in some cases, to the same extent as smoking). Why then are we as eager to ignore these "hazardous activities", as we are to verbally pummel smokers into submission?
Think about it, would you throw a fat man out of McDonalds?
Trial lawyers in the States are trying to do just that by suing the fast food chains for causing a "class" (custormers) to be obese. So your sardonic remark is not that far off the mark.
Besides, this is a conversation about how the Irish are dealing with the ban, not whether it is fair, etc.
No smoking in Irish pubs
No smoking in Irish pubs
is there any feedback on the new no smoking law yet? When I was in the West in January I was told by a pub owner that, "We in the west have a long history of defying the rules set in the Pale."
I won't mention names, but he was admant at the time. I wonder if the smoke police have sniffer dogs yet.
(Yes, I know all the arguments against second hand smoke and am a non-smoker. In fact I welcome the idea of a no smoking session, but we are talking vast cultural change here and I am interested in how and if, it will be accomplished. I was once told in the Army to niver give an order you don't think will be carried out.)
Mike Keyes
# Posted on March 26th 2004 by mikeyes
Re: No smoking in Irish pubs
Wow, Jeremy must have created AI-bots that search the archives & bring up boring threads over & over.
# Posted on March 26th 2004 by Mad Baloney
Re: No smoking in Irish pubs
Mad Baloney,
This thread is an inquiry on how the law is being implemented and how the Irish are responding to it, not on whether or not the law is fair, stupid, or even germaine (although I admit that I did mention something about laws that have no chance of being obeyed.) In the town I live in (in WI) most public places are smokeless and it was "no big deal" (sort of) after all the arguing was finally over.
I hope it is not boring to watch a culture change, possibly for a healthier life. In any case, and no matter what side of the question you are on, it will be interesting to see what happens.
Mike Keyes.
# Posted on March 26th 2004 by mikeyes
Re: No smoking in Irish pubs
Wow... I think I just saw a flying monkey...
I think your post is very relevant, Mike, and I too am interested to see what comes of the smoking ban.
# Posted on March 26th 2004 by Phantom Button
Re: No smoking in Irish pubs
I wasn't saying the law is bad, I think the topic is. This topic pops up all too often on all the message boards. There was a time when it was mildly interesting but that time has long past. Now it's just another thread where people are going to bitch, moan & whine about their views on smoking. The topic isn't horribly informative & it's definitely not going to change anyone's mind. It just pits people against each other & raises fur. I'm just the eejit who sticks his neck out for the rest who are bored to tears with this redundancy.
# Posted on March 26th 2004 by Mad Baloney
Re: No smoking in Irish pubs
Steve,
You are correct about my premature posting not allowing for comments. For some reason I thought the ban went into effect on the 25th.
Nonetheless, I would like to see how the transition occurs right from the beginning. While this is not Brown Vs. the Board of Education, it is a radical shift in culture (at least in the West), one which is among the first of many with the Eurofication of Ireland (although this particular change is much more American) and it should tell us a lot about how the Irish will respond to more weighty issues such as civil rights. It will also affect the traditional music culture, I think.
I suspect that there will be a gradual acceptance of the ban but it might go the route of prohibition in the US, who knows. That's what is so interesting, and why I'd like to hear the views of observers and actors in this little drama.
So far, by the way, there has been no "bitching" about various views on smoking, just discussion on whether the topic is of value. I happen to think it is.
Mike Keyes
# Posted on March 26th 2004 by mikeyes
Re: No smoking in Irish pubs
http://thesession.org/discussions/index.php/search?name=smoking
# Posted on March 27th 2004 by Mad Baloney
Re: No smoking in Irish pubs
The amount of smokers in Ireland is horrendous, although tabacco is very expensive. So, there's a typical Irish solution, extreme with no way in between. When the plastic bags had covered most parts of the roadsides (very romantic while walking or cycling) and their number had almost exploded, they decided to charge for them, which is good. But the price is incredibly high, for a simple cheap bag they charge 20 cents, cotton bags now cost about four Euro, up to six. Why so extreme? Although I must say, it was an immediate success.
And now again, instead of finding a way for both sides or at least asking the people for their own solutions (smoking free areas, smoking free bar etc) a complete ban. After having been 11 times in Ireland now I wonder, how they manage this new law. Did you hear about the idea with "smoking busses" or a bus transfer to the North (arranged by the NI- pubowners)?
# Posted on March 27th 2004 by craics90
Re: No smoking in Irish pubs
Hmm, yes, because 5cents makes such a difference
# Posted on March 27th 2004 by bb
Re: No smoking in Irish pubs
Isn't the whole point of making them so expensive is so that people won't use them?
# Posted on March 27th 2004 by Ptollemy
Re: No smoking in Irish pubs
Where I live (in FL), a smoking ban in workplaces was passed. I'm incredibly glad that it passed, as I have an allergy to cigarette smoke. At first some businesses refused to obey the law, but, at this point, no one is making a big fuss. However, it was not such a major cultural change here. I'm thinking that it will take much longer for the ban in Ireland to be accepted, and that many places will not comply for quite some time.
# Posted on March 27th 2004 by strider_girl
Re: No smoking in Irish pubs
Shannaquay steve is right its a national charge for plastic carrier bags is 15c.
There will be 450 tobacco inspectors 100 of which will be based in Dublin checking the pubs. A national snitch line so pubs that do not comply can be informed on. Any smoker caught will be fined €3000 and the publican fined the same with the possibilty of losing his licence. I think it should work. I might even start eating in pubs now and certainly go out more than the current once a week.
You know, a lot of fuss is being made about this issue but all the fuss is being made by smokers, you must remember these people are DRUG ADDICTS who don't care a hoot about the fact they are helping to KILL other people. For them their addiction comes first. They can go outside for a fix so they are not being stopped altogether. People don't make a fuss about going to the toilet so why all the fuss about this.
# Posted on March 27th 2004 by Bernie
Re: No smoking in Irish pubs
I lived through the change in california ( specifically, cold, rainy, foggy, northern calif). It took a few years for businesses to adjust financially, and a few more years for people to stop grumbling about it, but now its great. There are business to go to specifically to smoke ( various tobacco houses), but most have created nice places for their customer's to smoke outside: benches, ashtray containers, plants for ambiance. People will adjust eventually.
# Posted on March 28th 2004 by jenaceae
Re: No smoking in Irish pubs
Jenaceae is right. There is a tobacco store (So California) that has a "smoking area" in the back (members only, membership fee is $500 to $1000 a year, large first time entry fee) and its the leather covered, arm chair with martini bar, club motif- how they got that license for serving alchol, I'll never know. They can puff away on cigars, etc to their lungs dis-content.
# Posted on March 28th 2004 by I_Fel
Re: No smoking in Irish pubs
I have a funny view here because i'm totally anti smoking......i think it stinks, kills millions of people and props up multinationals..so i don't go into pubs very much...which incidentally means i don't get to sessions as often as i'd like.....
i do however belive in peoples right to kill themselves slowly however they want to so long as it doesn't affect me....hence i approve of a smoking ban in the workplace.....but pubs are places of recreation......if you don't like what poeple are doing in them then don't go in them........if there is a genuine need for smokefree pubs then the market will sort that out.....people will open them up and they will be successful and the ballance will find itself......
last night i went to a friends session in a quiet country pub with hardly any smoke and it was a treat............i tend to play music more with friends in houses and outside-whether permitting- and thats no bad thing................
as to the person who thought this whole disscussion was boring i'd say the same thing....if your not intersested in what somebody is writing about simply don't read it.......there is quite enough other stuff on the web to keep you interest for some time i should think..............
# Posted on March 28th 2004 by paulflute
Re: No smoking in Irish pubs
Paulflute gets it in one - if you don't like what people are doing in them (throwing smokers and sundry social pariahs out), dont go in them.
# Posted on March 28th 2004 by geoffwright
Re: No smoking in Irish pubs
Paulflute........nice elipses......good thoughts.......but flaw in the logic.....
Y'see, pubs *are* workplaces, too: Pubs employ bartenders, waitstaff, kitchen personnel, and sometimes...musicians! I share Paul's view that if people really want to smoke, let 'em; just have the decency not to risk the health of especially those who spend their 8-10 hour workday in the tight quarters of a pub or whatever.
It's amazing to see what's happened in New York since the smoking ban. The pubs are as crowded, if not more so, than ever. The sessiuns are still cracking. What's most amazing to me is how little even the smokers seem to complain about it. They simply walk outside and blaze up. Sure, you've got to run the gauntlet to get into the pub, but it's a momentary inconvenience, as opposed to the stinkbath it used to be if you played a three hour session.
Incidentally, I look at the time and I see that we're now several hours into the Irish smoke ban. Any observations from anyone at a pub at midnight last night?
# Posted on March 28th 2004 by darinkelly
Re: No smoking in Irish pubs
Oops...... "ellipses"
# Posted on March 28th 2004 by darinkelly
Re: No smoking in Irish pubs
I was in one of the many pubs in ireland at midnigght last night . At around midnight (ish) the bar man came out with the no smoking signs( as gaeilge i might add) and the whole place fell silent! as soon as they had been put up the whole pub started clapping and every1 went back 2 their drinks, smokers and all the ban doesnt really come in untill 2day and so far their has been a dramatic change its helarus 2 see every1 standing outside 2 have a smoke! but their just my observations!
# Posted on March 29th 2004 by shiv1
Re: No smoking in Irish pubs
I'll be interested in a few days or weeks to see how the no-smoking ban is working. Yeah we've discussed our points of view about smoking in pubs. But maybe this thread was posted prematurely. Let's just see what happens and then discuss it.
A friend in Ireland just returned my email saying it looks like it's going to work. He went to the pub for lunch today and couldn't smoke. But last night he did have his last 2 pints of "nicotine-tainted Heineken"...and this guy loves to smoke!
Joyce
# Posted on March 29th 2004 by JMH
Re: No smoking in Irish pubs
I was in a local GAA club tonite in Dublin.A couple of us gather on a monday nite and play a few tunes.This club is full of members on a monday.At the start of the night all smokers were making there way outside to light up no problem.But come the end of the night the jacks( toilets ) was full of smokers puffing away. One of the lads in our company got a bit pissed off.As he is off the smokes since the ban. Me being a non smoker I welcome the ban.But I think there may be trouble ahead. Come the weekend I say there will be a bit of agro.Watch this space.
# Posted on March 29th 2004 by Dphil
Re: No smoking in Irish pubs
Thanks for Mikeys start up of this post as I will be traveling to Ireland this summer for a week at Willie Clancy...and you all know the nature of the pub scene there. After living in smoke free Colorado and California, it's an environmental shock to enter smokey places.
And as an aside, Mad Baloney, some people (me) didn't catch the earlier thread on this topic, and I rarely have time to catch more than one or two of the topics on this site, and this one caught my eye. So if it bores you...stay away...there are lots of other messages to read and your comments were the only tedious addition to this thread IMHO.
# Posted on March 29th 2004 by banjobabe
Re: No smoking in Irish pubs
No, I don't like second-hand smoke
Yes, I'm willing to put with it
No, I shouldn't have to
Yes, life's a bitch... but deal with it, don't whinge about it.
There are plenty of other recreational activities that we consider perfectly acceptable, despite numerous medical studies proving that they also damage our health (in some cases, to the same extent as smoking). Why then are we as eager to ignore these "hazardous activities", as we are to verbally pummel smokers into submission?
Think about it, would you throw a fat man out of McDonalds?
# Posted on March 31st 2004 by never-trust-a-violinist
Re: No smoking in Irish pubs
Trial lawyers in the States are trying to do just that by suing the fast food chains for causing a "class" (custormers) to be obese. So your sardonic remark is not that far off the mark.
Besides, this is a conversation about how the Irish are dealing with the ban, not whether it is fair, etc.
It's all in how you use the law, I guess.
Mike Keyes
# Posted on March 31st 2004 by mikeyes