My teacher invited me to accompany her at a St. Patrick's Day Party on Saturday. We were providing background ambiance, not performing for an audience. Before the party started, we went through a couple of tunes for me to practice my whistle along with her fiddle. Then she played solo for two tunes that I didn't know. When she finished, she politely reprimanded me for drifting off, losing focus and sleeping while she played. She said that it distracted her. If I had a tail, it would have been tightly curled under, but I wasn't sure what I was doing wrong. How should I show my support for the person playing when I am sitting it out?
Re: Staying Focused while someone else is playing?
Zina, Her reference to sleeping was figurative. I wasn't actually nodding off. My mind was thinking about everything going on around me. I was amazed that she could tell I wasn't paying attention to what she was doing. She also instructed me to pay closer attention to recognizing when one tune ended and the next began. That one I understood, but it didn't help me recognize the ending until about five or six notes into the next tune. Your point about watching and listening is well taken. Thanks. In my practicing, I always stopped before going to another tune. So when there wasn't a pause between tunes, I was always late coming in. Playing at the party was a great learning experience. I want to be able to demonstrate that I can be properly attentive and alert to pick up tune starts so that my teacher will invite me to join her again.
Re: Staying Focused while someone else is playing?
Friendly suggestion from one learner to another ---- the hands. It's all in the hands. When you're sitting out, watch your teacher's hands like a hawk. You'll be so busy going "Oh! Right! I get it!" that you won't have a chance to lose focus, and she'll love you for paying attention.
Been there, done that...
Sara
Re: Staying Focused while someone else is playing?
Oh, whew, I'm glad to hear that, hoganrd.
Don't be too surprised about her noticing that you didn't have your mind on what she was doing. There's this certain air about someone when they're really listening to what you're playing -- a sort of intentness, even if they're looking away or down.
When they're not paying attention, their eyes are generally darting around and there's an air of inattentiveness as they get distracted by other things.
When someone is learning from you, you're watching them to see if they're doing what you feel they should be doing -- which is usually either trying to set the tune in their heads (in which case they're usually humming to themselves quietly along with you, or at least you hope it's quietly), or watching your fingers or other body parts to see how you're doing what you're doing.
What a teacher really likes to see is someone who not only paid attention to what you were doing while playing, but also asks intelligent questions afterwards, along the lines of, "so, what was that middle tune?" or "are those common tunes at sessions?" or "I really liked that last tune" or even "will I be learning those tunes?"
If the tunes being played are common, or double, tunes, then there'll be eight measures to each part, repeated, so it'll go AA, BB, AA, BB, etc. (unless there's more than two parts, of course). Most teachers don't teach their students "crooked" tunes right off (a crooked tune is one in which there's a different number of measures in one part than another part), generally (but not always) waiting til they get the feel of the eight repeated measures. And usually, each tune is repeated a certain amount of times, if they're both doubled tunes rather than single (where the parts are NOT repeated, so it goes AB AB AB instead), so you can tell where the set will go on to the next tune by simply counting.
After a while, you'll be able to tell by the feel and structure of the tune where you are in the part (really, you will).
You might try dropping your teacher a note and tell her exactly what you just told us -- that playing at the party was a great learning experience, and maybe mention a couple of the things you learned from it. That might go a long ways towards whether she'll ask you out with her again.
Re: Staying Focused while someone else is playing?
Thanks for the suggestions Sara. Zina, you hit the nail on the head. One of the tunes I consistently flubbed was a hornpipe which has a different pattern from the usual AA BB. Some other lessons I learned: 1) Be early. I called to say I was on my way, when I should have been knocking on the door by then. 2) Look professional. The people paying for our music want to feel they got their money's worth. 3) Stay alert, be ready for the next tune, know how it starts. 4) Most people don't know Irish traditional tunes, so even beginners can sound great. When somebody asks if I know how to play "Danny Boy", look to the lead before answering. As it happened, I played both Danny Boy and When Irish Eyes are Smiling once each with permission. 5) Don't ask if I can skip my next lesson since I played so much at the party (yes, I asked. The answer was no--the next lesson is the time to solidify everything covered at the party). Learning the hard way, Rich H
Re: Staying Focused while someone else is playing?
I don't know why she didn't just do what my friend and sometime band cohort Lorraine does to me, and whack you with the bow when you drift off or make a mistake.
Re: Staying Focused while someone else is playing?
Really good tips there - it always amazes me how many people cannot tell when one tune has finished and another started - especially the backers (who continue on in the previous key) and also the intermediates (who don't seem bothered by two tunes on the go at the same time).
You should be able to mentally sing along with the tutor if they are doing a solo - and do less damage than by joining in.
Something else to take in when watching the master (or mistress) is how to start and end a set. When you get a request, you have to be immediately ready, just as when the split-second there is a lull in the session, the clever gits jump in with their tune.
The punters never remember the middle of the set - all they remember is how you started and how you finished.
Start and finish together and you will be remembered.
Re: Staying Focused while someone else is playing?
What I find my stepdancing students have the hardest time with is learning to listen for where the music "starts over again" as one of them put it. Some of them can give you a count even if you start the tune in the middle of a track, but can't explain how they know where they are in the tune and the part. Others can't tell when the tune has repeated a part or gone on to the next part, or even the next tune in the set, it's like all the music is there for is the beat and it's all so much noise beside that.
Re: Staying Focused while someone else is playing?
Even good leaders have been known to forget where they are in a set - wondering whether they've played the B-part of tune 2 one or twice (or was it three times?), and did they forget to repeat the A-part?
Trevor
Re: Staying Focused while someone else is playing?
Losing count of how many times you've played the B-part -- oh yes: constantly. Thank goodness I play the banjo, not some instrument where people would actually notice I've screwed up...
Re: Staying Focused while someone else is playing?
hoganrd
to me the problem isn't You. If Your teacher can get upset obout Your lack of attention to the point of making You feel like beeing in a "would tighltly curled tail position", I'm sure that, if something was wrong,
that was her.
ciao
Massimo
tell your teacher to chill out and get her head out of her arse. If it was only background music, what was the harm in you not focusing completely. happens everyone mate.
My ex teacher fell asleep on me many a time, this certain wide-waisted sligo man (not a fiddle player....) snored his head off, literally. I found it quite amusing, I actually stopped playing and went and made myself a cup of tea. Came back, hit him a nudge, he woke up, snorted, slobbered all over the couch and started playing again!! Great craic.
Re: Staying Focused while someone else is playing?
In my early years in a barn-dance band the lead musician fell asleep WHILST playing - it was the third gig in two days, the second having been in the hot sun earlier that day. We noticed because she normally played the accordion with a lot of expression and accents, and she dropped down to playing smoothly. The electric-mandolin player woke her up by changing keys...!
GP
Staying Focused while someone else is playing?
Staying Focused while someone else is playing?
My teacher invited me to accompany her at a St. Patrick's Day Party on Saturday. We were providing background ambiance, not performing for an audience. Before the party started, we went through a couple of tunes for me to practice my whistle along with her fiddle. Then she played solo for two tunes that I didn't know. When she finished, she politely reprimanded me for drifting off, losing focus and sleeping while she played. She said that it distracted her. If I had a tail, it would have been tightly curled under, but I wasn't sure what I was doing wrong. How should I show my support for the person playing when I am sitting it out?
# Posted on March 22nd 2004 by hoganrd
Re: Staying Focused while someone else is playing?
You fell asleep? Really? Urm.
She presumably invited you along so you could hear her play, yes? Maybe hear the tunes, at the very least, or watch her technique?
So...how would you feel if you played two tunes and someone who is supposed to be your student and learning from you actually fell asleep...?
# Posted on March 22nd 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Staying Focused while someone else is playing?
Zina, Her reference to sleeping was figurative. I wasn't actually nodding off. My mind was thinking about everything going on around me. I was amazed that she could tell I wasn't paying attention to what she was doing. She also instructed me to pay closer attention to recognizing when one tune ended and the next began. That one I understood, but it didn't help me recognize the ending until about five or six notes into the next tune. Your point about watching and listening is well taken. Thanks. In my practicing, I always stopped before going to another tune. So when there wasn't a pause between tunes, I was always late coming in. Playing at the party was a great learning experience. I want to be able to demonstrate that I can be properly attentive and alert to pick up tune starts so that my teacher will invite me to join her again.
# Posted on March 22nd 2004 by hoganrd
Re: Staying Focused while someone else is playing?
Friendly suggestion from one learner to another ---- the hands. It's all in the hands. When you're sitting out, watch your teacher's hands like a hawk. You'll be so busy going "Oh! Right! I get it!" that you won't have a chance to lose focus, and she'll love you for paying attention.
Been there, done that...
Sara
# Posted on March 22nd 2004 by sara g
Re: Staying Focused while someone else is playing?
Oh, whew, I'm glad to hear that, hoganrd.
Don't be too surprised about her noticing that you didn't have your mind on what she was doing. There's this certain air about someone when they're really listening to what you're playing -- a sort of intentness, even if they're looking away or down.
When they're not paying attention, their eyes are generally darting around and there's an air of inattentiveness as they get distracted by other things.
When someone is learning from you, you're watching them to see if they're doing what you feel they should be doing -- which is usually either trying to set the tune in their heads (in which case they're usually humming to themselves quietly along with you, or at least you hope it's quietly), or watching your fingers or other body parts to see how you're doing what you're doing.
What a teacher really likes to see is someone who not only paid attention to what you were doing while playing, but also asks intelligent questions afterwards, along the lines of, "so, what was that middle tune?" or "are those common tunes at sessions?" or "I really liked that last tune" or even "will I be learning those tunes?"
If the tunes being played are common, or double, tunes, then there'll be eight measures to each part, repeated, so it'll go AA, BB, AA, BB, etc. (unless there's more than two parts, of course). Most teachers don't teach their students "crooked" tunes right off (a crooked tune is one in which there's a different number of measures in one part than another part), generally (but not always) waiting til they get the feel of the eight repeated measures. And usually, each tune is repeated a certain amount of times, if they're both doubled tunes rather than single (where the parts are NOT repeated, so it goes AB AB AB instead), so you can tell where the set will go on to the next tune by simply counting.
After a while, you'll be able to tell by the feel and structure of the tune where you are in the part (really, you will).
You might try dropping your teacher a note and tell her exactly what you just told us -- that playing at the party was a great learning experience, and maybe mention a couple of the things you learned from it. That might go a long ways towards whether she'll ask you out with her again.
Good luck!
Zina
# Posted on March 22nd 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Staying Focused while someone else is playing?
Thanks for the suggestions Sara. Zina, you hit the nail on the head. One of the tunes I consistently flubbed was a hornpipe which has a different pattern from the usual AA BB. Some other lessons I learned: 1) Be early. I called to say I was on my way, when I should have been knocking on the door by then. 2) Look professional. The people paying for our music want to feel they got their money's worth. 3) Stay alert, be ready for the next tune, know how it starts. 4) Most people don't know Irish traditional tunes, so even beginners can sound great. When somebody asks if I know how to play "Danny Boy", look to the lead before answering. As it happened, I played both Danny Boy and When Irish Eyes are Smiling once each with permission. 5) Don't ask if I can skip my next lesson since I played so much at the party (yes, I asked. The answer was no--the next lesson is the time to solidify everything covered at the party). Learning the hard way, Rich H
# Posted on March 22nd 2004 by hoganrd
Re: Staying Focused while someone else is playing?
I don't know why she didn't just do what my friend and sometime band cohort Lorraine does to me, and whack you with the bow when you drift off or make a mistake.
That fairly concentrates the mind.
# Posted on March 22nd 2004 by Bren
Re: Staying Focused while someone else is playing?
Really good tips there - it always amazes me how many people cannot tell when one tune has finished and another started - especially the backers (who continue on in the previous key) and also the intermediates (who don't seem bothered by two tunes on the go at the same time).
You should be able to mentally sing along with the tutor if they are doing a solo - and do less damage than by joining in.
Something else to take in when watching the master (or mistress) is how to start and end a set. When you get a request, you have to be immediately ready, just as when the split-second there is a lull in the session, the clever gits jump in with their tune.
The punters never remember the middle of the set - all they remember is how you started and how you finished.
Start and finish together and you will be remembered.
# Posted on March 23rd 2004 by geoffwright
Re: Staying Focused while someone else is playing?
What I find my stepdancing students have the hardest time with is learning to listen for where the music "starts over again" as one of them put it. Some of them can give you a count even if you start the tune in the middle of a track, but can't explain how they know where they are in the tune and the part. Others can't tell when the tune has repeated a part or gone on to the next part, or even the next tune in the set, it's like all the music is there for is the beat and it's all so much noise beside that.
# Posted on March 23rd 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Staying Focused while someone else is playing?
Even good leaders have been known to forget where they are in a set - wondering whether they've played the B-part of tune 2 one or twice (or was it three times?), and did they forget to repeat the A-part?
Trevor
# Posted on March 23rd 2004 by lazyhound
Re: Staying Focused while someone else is playing?
Losing count of how many times you've played the B-part -- oh yes: constantly. Thank goodness I play the banjo, not some instrument where people would actually notice I've screwed up...
# Posted on March 23rd 2004 by grego
Re: Staying Focused while someone else is playing?
hoganrd
to me the problem isn't You. If Your teacher can get upset obout Your lack of attention to the point of making You feel like beeing in a "would tighltly curled tail position", I'm sure that, if something was wrong,
that was her.
ciao
Massimo
# Posted on March 25th 2004 by fiddlemax
Re: Staying Focused while someone else is playing?
I think I overall disagree with that, Massimo. Of course every situation is different, though.
# Posted on March 25th 2004 by Zina Lee
Staying Focused while someone else is playing?
tell your teacher to chill out and get her head out of her arse. If it was only background music, what was the harm in you not focusing completely. happens everyone mate.
My ex teacher fell asleep on me many a time, this certain wide-waisted sligo man (not a fiddle player....) snored his head off, literally. I found it quite amusing, I actually stopped playing and went and made myself a cup of tea. Came back, hit him a nudge, he woke up, snorted, slobbered all over the couch and started playing again!! Great craic.
# Posted on March 25th 2004 by LaraKerr
Re: Staying Focused while someone else is playing?
In my early years in a barn-dance band the lead musician fell asleep WHILST playing - it was the third gig in two days, the second having been in the hot sun earlier that day. We noticed because she normally played the accordion with a lot of expression and accents, and she dropped down to playing smoothly. The electric-mandolin player woke her up by changing keys...!
GP
# Posted on March 29th 2004 by Guernsey Pete