I've been around here for a pretty long time, just kind of lurking. I Irish danced till about a year ago and am now throwing together (yeah, it's gotta happen pretty fast) a ceili band. Very unlikely group. So far I've got a classical violinist who wants to play fiddle. Me on flute. And a bagpiper. The fiddle and flute are okay, but when you add in the bagpipes we have a problem. With the keys. I've heard that the bagpipes are in Bb, but they sound more like they're in B, maybe it's just the tuning of the bagpipes. Also, since as far as I can tell they don't have any accidentals, it sounds really odd. Not to mention the small range... Does anybody have suggestions on how to play with bagpipes, what songs are good, etc..?
Oh, I'm going to post again because I forgot a couple things. ((Can you edit previous posts?)) How common are bagpipes in ceili bands?
Also, I'm only a high schooler, and this is for a school performance thingy. We'll probably play a couple sets for dancers to dance to, maybe do a couple faster ones just for fun, and wrap up with an 8 hand reel. ((We've only got 8 dancers in the school, counting me, but it's on my wish list. :D))
I'll try and answer this as coherently as possible, but it's 5am over here so excuse any mistakes or confusion
The bagpipes are in Bb (in theory) and so in order for you guys to play you'll have to tune up a semitone or play in a key a semitone higher. I''ll give you an example:
Take Atholl Highlanders, I see you've got it in your tune book. This is a tune that almost all pipers know (but don't always admit to). The piper will write the tune out in A and think of it as in A but it'll be in Bb. For a tune like Ryan's Jig (fits quite nicely with flute, fiddle and pipes) it's in Bm and as far as the piper knows he's playing Bm, but it's actually Cm when played on the pipes. Does that make any sense?
Alternatively you could play a Eb flute or whistle with the pipes and not worry about the key. Then get the fiddler to tune a semi tone up. Some fiddlers don't like this idea.
Also bear in mind you'll have to get the piper to make sure his pipes are somewhere near Bb and the whole scale is in tune.
As for accidentals the pipes only really have one. They can flatten the D to a Db . They can play XXXXOXO instead of XXXXOOX . This equates to a C instead of Csharp in a pipers mind.
I play fiddle and mandolin in a ceili band with my husband who is a piper. Although he usually plays border pipes in the ceili band (they're not as loud as the GHP, and they're in A as opposed to B flat) I have also played with him on his Highland pipes. What I do is tune up the fiddle a semi-tone, as already suggested. You need to choose tunes that are within the range of the pipes (from the G on the "D" string on the fiddle, to the 'A" on the E string (although some pipers can hit the "B" as well.) Tunes that we play for ceilis are: Lark in the Morning, My Darling Asleep,Jig of Slurs,and yes---we do play Atholl Highlanders, the Merry Blacksmith, Silver Spear, Swallowtail Reel, Brenda Stubbert's Reel, and the Congress Ree, Egan's Polka, Maids of Ardagh, Bill Sullivan's Polka. Some of these tunes need to modified somewhat to be played on the pipes. I recommend you use a pick-up on the fiddle instead of just miking it, otherwise the soundsof the pipes will be pretty much all you hear! Have fun.....Aoife
Get rid of the "bagpipes" - Great Highland Pipes - I assume and get some "real pipes for real Ceili bands", that is, the Uilleann pipes. I 'm guessing that the GHB's in your band are going to drown out the rest of you and will also limit your tune selection. Not so with the UP's, they are quieter, come in a variety of keys, and you can turn the drones on and off as needed.
Hi Maeve.
Ignore the propaganda for that other Scottish invention the Union Pipes; GHB is great in a Ceilidh band.
GHB is the pre-eminent dance instrument of Gaelic culture and the place where the Irish got the reel.
Of cause there are problems but I think you'll find it well worth it when you see the effect on the dancers.
As has been pointed out the basic scale is Bb Major with a flattened 7th (Bb Mixolidian Mode).
The problems you might find are,
1 Pipers tune there Chanters to be in tune with themselves not generally to a specific Pitch, these days as you rightly observed the Bb is Nearly B. The easiest way is to tune to the pipes, but if your piper is up fore it you can retune the chanter to play in concert pitch. Your Piper needs to find a reed that is as flat as possible and then pull the reed out so that High Bb is in concert pitch. Then all the rest of the scale can be tuned using tape on the holes. This takes a bit of time and practice but is a method I've used successfully in many Bands (I have a Concert Chanter that stays tapped all the time).
2 Bb is not a very Trad friendly Key, Fiddles can be re-tuned up a semi-tone but the flute is going to be a problem. Switching to a Bb or Eb Whistle of Fife as suggested above is probably the easiest solution.
Chanters in concert A are now being made and if your Piper invests in one of theses and a cheap set of Pakistani Pipes who's Drones are vary happy in concert A he can use his present bag and stocks to get Trad friendly Pipe.
3 Volume.
I've never found this a problem as most of the Bands I play pipes with use PA, I sometimes Play on the Dance floor with the band backing me.
Good luck
It is worth the effort.
Yeah, I wish we had Uilleann pipes, but no such luck. We're so limited with instruments, because I only have a C flute (and piccolo, but that doesn't help here
Aoife, what exactly is a pick-up?
Are kitchen pipes in the same key as bagpipes? Do they tend to be sharper or flatter, or almost exactly the same as GHB.
About the taping of the hole on the pipes, how exactly do you go about doing that?
Taping the holes can be done with electrical tape -- covering a small bit of the top edge of a hole will flatten the note a bit. The problem is, once you set up a pipe chanter to produce a 466 "A" -- much flatter than it wants to be -- you'll often have a totally screwed up scale which will take a lot of effort to get back in tune.
Taping is fairly controversial -- in the end, it creates more problems than it solves, in my view. Modern chanters are pushing the A=480 mark, so getting one back down to 466 is making it do something it really doesn't want to.
And even if you manage to get the pipe working, you still have an instrument which is overwhelmingly loud and requires everyone else to tune up a half-step or transpose -- major headache.
Getting some sort of concert pitch bagpipe would make everyone's life easier -- Scottish smallpipes or Border pipes are a great (but expensive) solution, plus your piper has to learn to use a bellows (usually a 3- to 6-month proposition). There are some mouth-blown SSPs on the market, also in concert pitch. Many feel the sound is inferior to a bellows pipe (I myself do prefer a bellows SSP) but I think some are servicable, and they tend to be a lot more affordable.
There is no such thing as the Kitchen Pipes.Kitchen piping refers to pipe tunes that aren't ceol mor or ceol beag.The tunes are usually recently composed.It's called kitchen piping after the tune,The Kitchen Piper.Troy's Wedding,The Jiggernaut,The Clumsy Lover and The Tide's Out are all examples of the genre.
Kitchen Pipes are a type of smallpipe manufactured in Canada. WWW.Hotpipes.com sells a set that is mated with a Dunbar Millennium 2000 chanter that can be tuned to A440 without much difficulty. The standard chanter that comes with the pipes is ok, but I think the Dunbar chanter greatly improves the sound of this instrument. Kitchen Pipes are MUCH quieter than piob mor and have an interesting quasi-Uillean sound. The overall effect is quite different from the chanter alone. These pipes have two drones and use standard practice chanter reeds. Longer, stiffer reeds will help you achieve the concert tuning you are after. They do, however, suffer the same limited range as Great Highland Bagpipes. The fingering is the same for your bagpipe player... nothing new to learn except not to blow so hard.
Bagpipes in Ceili Bands
Bagpipes in Ceili Bands
I've been around here for a pretty long time, just kind of lurking. I Irish danced till about a year ago and am now throwing together (yeah, it's gotta happen pretty fast) a ceili band. Very unlikely group. So far I've got a classical violinist who wants to play fiddle. Me on flute. And a bagpiper. The fiddle and flute are okay, but when you add in the bagpipes we have a problem. With the keys. I've heard that the bagpipes are in Bb, but they sound more like they're in B, maybe it's just the tuning of the bagpipes. Also, since as far as I can tell they don't have any accidentals, it sounds really odd. Not to mention the small range... Does anybody have suggestions on how to play with bagpipes, what songs are good, etc..?
# Posted on February 21st 2004 by Maeve
Re: Bagpipes in Ceili Bands
Oh, I'm going to post again because I forgot a couple things. ((Can you edit previous posts?)) How common are bagpipes in ceili bands?
Also, I'm only a high schooler, and this is for a school performance thingy. We'll probably play a couple sets for dancers to dance to, maybe do a couple faster ones just for fun, and wrap up with an 8 hand reel. ((We've only got 8 dancers in the school, counting me, but it's on my wish list. :D))
# Posted on February 21st 2004 by Maeve
Re: Bagpipes in Ceili Bands
I'll try and answer this as coherently as possible, but it's 5am over here so excuse any mistakes or confusion
The bagpipes are in Bb (in theory) and so in order for you guys to play you'll have to tune up a semitone or play in a key a semitone higher. I''ll give you an example:
Take Atholl Highlanders, I see you've got it in your tune book. This is a tune that almost all pipers know (but don't always admit to). The piper will write the tune out in A and think of it as in A but it'll be in Bb. For a tune like Ryan's Jig (fits quite nicely with flute, fiddle and pipes) it's in Bm and as far as the piper knows he's playing Bm, but it's actually Cm when played on the pipes. Does that make any sense?
Alternatively you could play a Eb flute or whistle with the pipes and not worry about the key. Then get the fiddler to tune a semi tone up. Some fiddlers don't like this idea.
Also bear in mind you'll have to get the piper to make sure his pipes are somewhere near Bb and the whole scale is in tune.
As for accidentals the pipes only really have one. They can flatten the D to a Db . They can play XXXXOXO instead of XXXXOOX . This equates to a C instead of Csharp in a pipers mind.
I hope this helps
David
# Posted on February 21st 2004 by borderpiper
Re: Bagpipes in Ceili Bands
How about using a hurdy gurdy. We play in most keys, sound like a bagpipe (we have drones), and are tunable! Hurdy gurdies: the better alternative!
# Posted on February 21st 2004 by GertieCranker
Re: Bagpipes in Ceili Bands
I play fiddle and mandolin in a ceili band with my husband who is a piper. Although he usually plays border pipes in the ceili band (they're not as loud as the GHP, and they're in A as opposed to B flat) I have also played with him on his Highland pipes. What I do is tune up the fiddle a semi-tone, as already suggested. You need to choose tunes that are within the range of the pipes (from the G on the "D" string on the fiddle, to the 'A" on the E string (although some pipers can hit the "B" as well.) Tunes that we play for ceilis are: Lark in the Morning, My Darling Asleep,Jig of Slurs,and yes---we do play Atholl Highlanders, the Merry Blacksmith, Silver Spear, Swallowtail Reel, Brenda Stubbert's Reel, and the Congress Ree, Egan's Polka, Maids of Ardagh, Bill Sullivan's Polka. Some of these tunes need to modified somewhat to be played on the pipes. I recommend you use a pick-up on the fiddle instead of just miking it, otherwise the soundsof the pipes will be pretty much all you hear! Have fun.....Aoife
# Posted on February 22nd 2004 by aoife
Re: Bagpipes in Ceili Bands
I've never seen bagpipes in c
# Posted on February 22nd 2004 by Bannerman
Re: Bagpipes in Ceili Bands
Get rid of the "bagpipes" - Great Highland Pipes - I assume and get some "real pipes for real Ceili bands", that is, the Uilleann pipes. I 'm guessing that the GHB's in your band are going to drown out the rest of you and will also limit your tune selection. Not so with the UP's, they are quieter, come in a variety of keys, and you can turn the drones on and off as needed.
# Posted on February 22nd 2004 by anima
Re: Bagpipes in Ceili Bands
Hi Maeve.
Ignore the propaganda for that other Scottish invention the Union Pipes; GHB is great in a Ceilidh band.
GHB is the pre-eminent dance instrument of Gaelic culture and the place where the Irish got the reel.
Of cause there are problems but I think you'll find it well worth it when you see the effect on the dancers.
As has been pointed out the basic scale is Bb Major with a flattened 7th (Bb Mixolidian Mode).
The problems you might find are,
1 Pipers tune there Chanters to be in tune with themselves not generally to a specific Pitch, these days as you rightly observed the Bb is Nearly B. The easiest way is to tune to the pipes, but if your piper is up fore it you can retune the chanter to play in concert pitch. Your Piper needs to find a reed that is as flat as possible and then pull the reed out so that High Bb is in concert pitch. Then all the rest of the scale can be tuned using tape on the holes. This takes a bit of time and practice but is a method I've used successfully in many Bands (I have a Concert Chanter that stays tapped all the time).
2 Bb is not a very Trad friendly Key, Fiddles can be re-tuned up a semi-tone but the flute is going to be a problem. Switching to a Bb or Eb Whistle of Fife as suggested above is probably the easiest solution.
Chanters in concert A are now being made and if your Piper invests in one of theses and a cheap set of Pakistani Pipes who's Drones are vary happy in concert A he can use his present bag and stocks to get Trad friendly Pipe.
3 Volume.
I've never found this a problem as most of the Bands I play pipes with use PA, I sometimes Play on the Dance floor with the band backing me.
Good luck
It is worth the effort.
TTFN
PP
# Posted on February 23rd 2004 by Pied Piper
Re: Bagpipes in Ceili Bands
Yeah, I wish we had Uilleann pipes, but no such luck. We're so limited with instruments, because I only have a C flute (and piccolo, but that doesn't help here
Aoife, what exactly is a pick-up?
Are kitchen pipes in the same key as bagpipes? Do they tend to be sharper or flatter, or almost exactly the same as GHB.
About the taping of the hole on the pipes, how exactly do you go about doing that?
Thanks, Maeve
# Posted on February 23rd 2004 by Maeve
Re: Bagpipes in Ceili Bands
Taping the holes can be done with electrical tape -- covering a small bit of the top edge of a hole will flatten the note a bit. The problem is, once you set up a pipe chanter to produce a 466 "A" -- much flatter than it wants to be -- you'll often have a totally screwed up scale which will take a lot of effort to get back in tune.
Taping is fairly controversial -- in the end, it creates more problems than it solves, in my view. Modern chanters are pushing the A=480 mark, so getting one back down to 466 is making it do something it really doesn't want to.
And even if you manage to get the pipe working, you still have an instrument which is overwhelmingly loud and requires everyone else to tune up a half-step or transpose -- major headache.
Getting some sort of concert pitch bagpipe would make everyone's life easier -- Scottish smallpipes or Border pipes are a great (but expensive) solution, plus your piper has to learn to use a bellows (usually a 3- to 6-month proposition). There are some mouth-blown SSPs on the market, also in concert pitch. Many feel the sound is inferior to a bellows pipe (I myself do prefer a bellows SSP) but I think some are servicable, and they tend to be a lot more affordable.
Good luck.
Scott
# Posted on February 23rd 2004 by rscarr3768
Re: Bagpipes in Ceili Bands
There is no such thing as the Kitchen Pipes.Kitchen piping refers to pipe tunes that aren't ceol mor or ceol beag.The tunes are usually recently composed.It's called kitchen piping after the tune,The Kitchen Piper.Troy's Wedding,The Jiggernaut,The Clumsy Lover and The Tide's Out are all examples of the genre.
# Posted on March 1st 2003 by dafydd
Re: Bagpipes in Ceili Bands
Kitchen Pipes are a type of smallpipe manufactured in Canada. WWW.Hotpipes.com sells a set that is mated with a Dunbar Millennium 2000 chanter that can be tuned to A440 without much difficulty. The standard chanter that comes with the pipes is ok, but I think the Dunbar chanter greatly improves the sound of this instrument. Kitchen Pipes are MUCH quieter than piob mor and have an interesting quasi-Uillean sound. The overall effect is quite different from the chanter alone. These pipes have two drones and use standard practice chanter reeds. Longer, stiffer reeds will help you achieve the concert tuning you are after. They do, however, suffer the same limited range as Great Highland Bagpipes. The fingering is the same for your bagpipe player... nothing new to learn except not to blow so hard.
# Posted on May 26th 2004 by richburb