More and more when I listen to traditional music I just want to hear the instruments or the singer. I like to hear the tone, timbre and harmonics, the little nuances in expression, without electronic enhancements. The best trad music is live, of course. Elaborate studio production values seem to just get in the way. Granted, I am a bit old fashioned in my tastes. But then I heard Lunasa and realized everything doesn't have to sound like Capercallie and still be "produced." I really like that stuff.
Just wondering what others think?
These days I hardly listen to any recorded music at all.
We have live music happening in our house most of the time, most days - from baroque guitar and classical piano to IrishTM and on into English, french and SwedishTM. But if I do listen to recordings, I want music that real people play on real instruments, not "electronic enhancements".
So long as the music is good, given a certain definition, naturally (heh) of "good", I can generally quickly get over any wonky production values, or production that is so clean it doesn't sound human any more. I may not want to listen to everything for longer than one through, but I do like it.
But I know not everyone can deal with that. For some people it's like that little pea under the mattress...
As I get older I no longer hear anything above 10K Hz, so hi-fi in that respect is meaningless. My appreciation of intonation is as ever it was, and wow-and-flutter (now mercifully rare on modern systems) still irritates me no end. The best hi-fi filtering system without a doubt is that between the ears.
Trevor
There is a place for studio experimentation. But when it goes beyond striving to achieve a faithful reproduction of how one hears an instrument played in the kitchen or the living room, it becomes 'studio music'. When traditional musicnis treated in this way, it starts to move way from being traditional music, and becomes a musical project using traditional music as its source material.
The traditional-ness of artistes such as Lunasa, The Bothy Band, or Ceoltoiri Chulainn is open to dispute, with regard to their musical; content, arrangements etc., but what they have in common with Johnny Doherty, Joe Cooley or Micho Russell, is that they can or could all do, at home, in the street or on stage, exactly what they have done on their recordings. Capercaillie or the Afro Celt Sound System, on the other hand, make music to which studio production is essential.
When you say "lush sound for entertainment value" do you mean the Lorena McKennit kind of thing, or the drum machine loop kind of thing that Ashley MacIsaac does?
When I was young I borrowed a very old record from the local lending library (John Renbourne, "The Black Balloon"; still one of my all time favourites). It was very, very scratched and jumped in several places but I still played it to death over several borrowings.
Years later I stumbled across an American import CD of the same album, this time without all the hiss and crackles. I listened to it once, then took it back (it also jumped, but that was just an excuse).
The point was, the original sounded authentic - it had the feel of a poorly recorded session of 'live' music. The digitally remastered version lacked that sensation, and as a result I didn't like it anywhere near as much.
bc-box-player, I know exactly what you mean.
Elsewhere on this forum I told about a magnificent old LP of Basil Rathbone reading stories and poems by Edgar Allan Poe. It eventually got so worn as to be unplayable, so I replaced it with a CD compilation of the same with added readings by Rathbone and Vincent Price. It was disappointing to listen to. All natural background noise, both in natural speaking pauses and even between words had been removed, so the result was unnatural and sounded like it had been recorded in an anechoic chamber. I went to the trouble of copying selected tracks onto my hard disk as a .wav file, carefully adding a low level background of brown noise (like white noise but with more emphasis on the lower frequencies) and burning the result back onto a CD. Those tracks now sound much more natural and acceptable.
A similar sort of procedure could be done with your CD, if you made up a sound file of the background between-tracks hiss from an LP and added it in to a copy of your CD on your hard disk. The software I used was Cool Edit 2000. This is no longer available as such; I think the pro version has been bought up by Adobe (?) and remarketed.
Trevor
I like a sound that is as close to live as possible, especially for trad solo, duet, and trio CDs. A little natural-sounding reverb can be a nice thing.
Production values, styles...what do you like?
Production values, styles...what do you like?
More and more when I listen to traditional music I just want to hear the instruments or the singer. I like to hear the tone, timbre and harmonics, the little nuances in expression, without electronic enhancements. The best trad music is live, of course. Elaborate studio production values seem to just get in the way. Granted, I am a bit old fashioned in my tastes. But then I heard Lunasa and realized everything doesn't have to sound like Capercallie and still be "produced." I really like that stuff.
Just wondering what others think?
# Posted on February 20th 2004 by bellows boy
Re: Production values, styles...what do you like?
These days I hardly listen to any recorded music at all.
We have live music happening in our house most of the time, most days - from baroque guitar and classical piano to IrishTM and on into English, french and SwedishTM. But if I do listen to recordings, I want music that real people play on real instruments, not "electronic enhancements".
# Posted on February 20th 2004 by showaddydadito
Re: Production values, styles...what do you like?
So long as the music is good, given a certain definition, naturally (heh) of "good", I can generally quickly get over any wonky production values, or production that is so clean it doesn't sound human any more. I may not want to listen to everything for longer than one through, but I do like it.
But I know not everyone can deal with that. For some people it's like that little pea under the mattress...
# Posted on February 20th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Production values, styles...what do you like?
It depends on your hi fi
# Posted on February 20th 2004 by ...
Re: Production values, styles...what do you like?
Little pee under the mattress?
# Posted on February 20th 2004 by showaddydadito
Re: Production values, styles...what do you like?
As I get older I no longer hear anything above 10K Hz, so hi-fi in that respect is meaningless. My appreciation of intonation is as ever it was, and wow-and-flutter (now mercifully rare on modern systems) still irritates me no end. The best hi-fi filtering system without a doubt is that between the ears.
Trevor
# Posted on February 20th 2004 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Production values, styles...what do you like?
nah you dont get it. it requires an open mind
# Posted on February 20th 2004 by aye
Re: Production values, styles...what do you like?
There is a place for studio experimentation. But when it goes beyond striving to achieve a faithful reproduction of how one hears an instrument played in the kitchen or the living room, it becomes 'studio music'. When traditional musicnis treated in this way, it starts to move way from being traditional music, and becomes a musical project using traditional music as its source material.
The traditional-ness of artistes such as Lunasa, The Bothy Band, or Ceoltoiri Chulainn is open to dispute, with regard to their musical; content, arrangements etc., but what they have in common with Johnny Doherty, Joe Cooley or Micho Russell, is that they can or could all do, at home, in the street or on stage, exactly what they have done on their recordings. Capercaillie or the Afro Celt Sound System, on the other hand, make music to which studio production is essential.
# Posted on February 20th 2004 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: Production values, styles...what do you like?
"nah you dont get it. it requires an open mind" To whom are you speaking, about what, Mike?
# Posted on February 20th 2004 by Zina Lee
Re: Production values, styles...what do you like?
I'm all for a simple productions. I prefer solo or duet, and easy on the electronic modifications.
But there are times when its great to hear some really lush sound for entertainment value, as opposed to listen-and-learn.
# Posted on February 21st 2004 by Tyghress
Re: Production values, styles...what do you like?
When you say "lush sound for entertainment value" do you mean the Lorena McKennit kind of thing, or the drum machine loop kind of thing that Ashley MacIsaac does?
# Posted on February 21st 2004 by bellows boy
Re: Production values, styles...what do you like?
When I was young I borrowed a very old record from the local lending library (John Renbourne, "The Black Balloon"; still one of my all time favourites). It was very, very scratched and jumped in several places but I still played it to death over several borrowings.
Years later I stumbled across an American import CD of the same album, this time without all the hiss and crackles. I listened to it once, then took it back (it also jumped, but that was just an excuse).
The point was, the original sounded authentic - it had the feel of a poorly recorded session of 'live' music. The digitally remastered version lacked that sensation, and as a result I didn't like it anywhere near as much.
Go figure.
# Posted on February 21st 2004 by bc_box_player
Re: Production values, styles...what do you like?
bc-box-player, I know exactly what you mean.
Elsewhere on this forum I told about a magnificent old LP of Basil Rathbone reading stories and poems by Edgar Allan Poe. It eventually got so worn as to be unplayable, so I replaced it with a CD compilation of the same with added readings by Rathbone and Vincent Price. It was disappointing to listen to. All natural background noise, both in natural speaking pauses and even between words had been removed, so the result was unnatural and sounded like it had been recorded in an anechoic chamber. I went to the trouble of copying selected tracks onto my hard disk as a .wav file, carefully adding a low level background of brown noise (like white noise but with more emphasis on the lower frequencies) and burning the result back onto a CD. Those tracks now sound much more natural and acceptable.
A similar sort of procedure could be done with your CD, if you made up a sound file of the background between-tracks hiss from an LP and added it in to a copy of your CD on your hard disk. The software I used was Cool Edit 2000. This is no longer available as such; I think the pro version has been bought up by Adobe (?) and remarketed.
Trevor
# Posted on February 21st 2004 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Production values, styles...what do you like?
I like a sound that is as close to live as possible, especially for trad solo, duet, and trio CDs. A little natural-sounding reverb can be a nice thing.
# Posted on February 23rd 2004 by Hanley